Has anyone tried the Bigha?



"Larry Varney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:%[email protected]...
> >
>
> I'm glad to see that you're bringing other criteria
> into the discussion - it's not just a matter of
> weight/price. And yes, if there are bikes that are
> similar, to one degree or another, which are
> significantly cheaper - that's something else to
> consider.
> --
> Larry Varney Cold Spring, KY
> http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

The interesting thing is so far out of maybe 6 reviews of
the BigHa I've seen I have yet to see a bad one. They do say
it's a heavy and expensive bike but overall a good ride
 
"Larry Varney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Edward Dolan wrote:
[...]
> > When it comes to bikes, it is all about price and
> > weight. You food
analogy
> > is all wrong. Taste becomes a very important
> > consideration when it comes
to
> > food. I am not into bike components. Basically a bike is
> > a frame and two wheels. With a recumbent, the design
> > (configuration) of the bike is also very important.
> > Everything else is Mickey Mouse. I leave it to Lorenzo
to
> > ask the critical question - and we all know by now what
> > that question
is!
> >
>
> When it comes to bikes, when it comes to almost
> *anything* - there are seldom so few criteria that need
> to be considered. Weight is not the only thing that
> determines the value - that should be obvious to
> anyone. You mentioned design. That is one critiera.
> Components are another. History of the company, as
> pointed out by Mr. Love, is yet another. Appearance,
> too, is a criteria that many use, though it is very
> subjective. How the bike is sold (through dealers or
> only direct from the factory), followup service,
> manuals and documentation - the list goes on and on
> These are all criteria in determining the worth of a
> bike. Anyone should be able to see that weight alone
> will not tell you if it's worth the money or not.

Weight and price are the two most critical considerations
for me when it comes getting a bike. The reason weight is so
important is that it is a measure by which many other
aspects of the bike quality is determined. However, I think
you may well be right that price and weight are not the most
important considerations for most others. I am always amazed
at what others take into consideration when it comes to
spending their hard earned money. I am out of the main
stream I must admit.

If the Bigha were around $1500. to $2000. I could see it as
something that SOME would consider, but $3000. is beyond all
reason.We all have to draw the line somewhere. Even if I had
money to burn, I would not spend $3000. for a Bigha!

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
In article <[email protected]>, Edward Dolan
<[email protected]> wrote:

> "Slugger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:060620041511553426%[email protected]...
> > In article <[email protected]
> > .rogers.com>, Sticker Jim <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > If he had of simply typed "bigha review" in any search
> > > engine, he
> wouldn't
> > > have needed to make the initial post either :)
> > >
> > > "Randy Rhine" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Slugger wrote:
> > > > > In article <[email protected]
> > > > > google.com>, Zach Kaplan Cycles
> > > > > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >>For a detailed review of it you might want to read
> > > > >>my article on it
> in
> > > > >>Recumbent Cyclist News #80 (January-February 2004
> > > > >>issue).
> > > > >>
> > > > >>Zach Kaplan
> > > > >
> > > > > got a link for that?
> > > >
> > > > Why do people ask for a link when all they gotta do
> > > > is use a search
> > > engine?
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > uh huh..so what is the point of usenet?
> [...]
>
> That is a most excellent question Slugger. As a
> professional university research librarian I can tell you
> that there are very few who know how to find their way
> around a great research library containing millions of
> documents. Even Ph.D. scholars can easily get lost in the
> complexities of finding their way through a great research
> library. That is why there are librarians with Master's
> degrees to help with the process.
>
> However, computers make all of this a no brainer. You can
> now do a search as easily as any Ph.D. scholar. I think
> newsgroups (usenet) are basically for chatter. We humans
> are like monkeys and we like to chatter to one another.
> That is why I post the way I do. I am not enamored of the
> informational aspects of newsgroups. It seems to me
> newsgroups are primarily for social intercourse. Those who
> use newsgroups for strictly informational purposes are
> totally missing the boat. Newsgroups are for human
> intercourse pure and simple. That is why I never stay
> strictly on-topic. That is for ignoramuses and fools. I
> want to entertain and amuse my fellow human beings. If
> only they would reciprocate!

Ok, i'll go bury my literal ass in the sand then! :cD Yeah
i guess i like and dislike a number of things about the
bike. First off, consumers are price sensitive. I am a
consumer. Second..the weight. Who doesn't want a lighter
bike. I do. Those are the two minuses that come to mind. On
the other side there is the geometry. I feel this is a
really nice comprimise for a 'bent between torque,
aerodynamics and visibility for both the rider and other
drivers. My biggest fear is having my shoulders restricted
from the seat back so that i can't turn my head enough for
a good look behind me..i realize i can get mirrors but i
feel more comfortable seeing the driver in the eyes when he
smokes me. Which brings me to the other thing i really like
about this bike. The seat looks to be excellent. And so
should it as i read they spent half a million designing the
saddle alone. What i like about it is the back rest is
tapered and allows for more movement in the upper body when
looking over your shoulder.

On that note what is a comparable bike for half the price
with disc brakes and semi good components?
 
Mark Leuck wrote:

> The interesting thing is so far out of maybe 6 reviews
> of the BigHa I've seen I have yet to see a bad one. They
> do say it's a heavy and expensive bike but overall a
> good ride

Maybe because the people who think it's too expensive don't
buy it and therefore can't review it?

--
Where no oxen are, the crib is clean, But much benefit is
derived from the labor of the ox.
 
"Slugger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:080620042339505088%[email protected]... [...]
> Yeah i guess i like and dislike a number of things about
> the bike. First off, consumers are price sensitive. I am a
> consumer. Second..the weight. Who doesn't want a lighter
> bike. I do. Those are the two minuses that come to mind.
> On the other side there is the geometry. I feel this is a
> really nice comprimise for a 'bent between torque,
> aerodynamics and visibility for both the rider and other
> drivers. My biggest fear is having my shoulders restricted
> from the seat back so that i can't turn my head enough for
> a good look behind me..i realize i can get mirrors but i
> feel more comfortable seeing the driver in the eyes when
> he smokes me. Which brings me to the other thing i really
> like about this bike. The seat looks to be excellent. And
> so should it as i read they spent half a million designing
> the saddle alone. What i like about it is the back rest is
> tapered and allows for more movement in the upper body
> when looking over your shoulder.
>
> On that note what is a comparable bike for half the price
> with disc brakes and semi good components?

Here is the most important previous message in this thread
which bears on your concerns which you should carefully
consider because it was written by someone (Mark Stonich)
who knows what he is talking about (unlike most of the rest
of us here):

Slugger <[email protected]> wrote in message
> It seems heavy and with a heavy pricetag but the geometry
> looks to be perfection.

"Not enough tiller, not enough fork rake, seat too high,
seatback so vertical that recumbutt is guaranteed. Other
than that, perfect."

Mr. Stonich knows his way around these design and
configuration problems and if I were you I would pay
heed to what he says. Why learn everything the hard way?

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
"Slugger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:080620042339505088%[email protected]...
> Ok, i'll go bury my literal ass in the sand then! :cD Yeah
> i guess i like and dislike a number of things about the
> bike. First off, consumers are price sensitive. I am a
> consumer. Second..the weight. Who doesn't want a lighter
> bike. I do. Those are the two minuses that come to mind.
> On the other side there is the geometry. I feel this is a
> really nice comprimise for a 'bent between torque,
> aerodynamics and visibility for both the rider and other
> drivers. My biggest fear is having my shoulders restricted
> from the seat back so that i can't turn my head enough for
> a good look behind me..i realize i can get mirrors but i
> feel more comfortable seeing the driver in the eyes when
> he smokes me. Which brings me to the other thing i really
> like about this bike. The seat looks to be excellent. And
> so should it as i read they spent half a million designing
> the saddle alone. What i like about it is the back rest is
> tapered and allows for more movement in the upper body
> when looking over your shoulder.
>
> On that note what is a comparable bike for half the price
> with disc brakes and semi good components?

Slugger go buy yourself a RANS Tailwind - put a disc brake
on it if you must - invest the additional two thousand
dollars you would have spent on a BiGHA in a few good
solid stocks. In five years you will be glad you did.
Trust me on this.

skip
 
Mark Leuck wrote:
> "Larry Varney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:%[email protected]...
>
>> I'm glad to see that you're bringing other criteria
>> into the discussion - it's not just a matter of
>> weight/price. And yes, if there are bikes that are
>> similar, to one degree or another, which are
>> significantly cheaper - that's something else to
>> consider.
>>--
>>Larry Varney Cold Spring, KY
>>http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney
>
>
> The interesting thing is so far out of maybe 6 reviews
> of the BigHa I've seen I have yet to see a bad one. They
> do say it's a heavy and expensive bike but overall a
> good ride
>
>

And of those six reviews, how many of the reviewers liked it
so well that they were willing to pay $3000 of their own
money for it? If they send me one, I'll probably say good
things about it too. Send me almost anything free and I'll
probably say something good about it. When you get a review
product for free, price goes out of the equation. But for
consumers who actually have to pay for a product, price is
always a prime factor. Unless the consumer is so wealthy
that money is meaningless. Is that your case?

Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"If you would know the value of money, go and try to borrow
some." Benjamin Franklin
 
"Lorenzo L. Love" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >
> > The interesting thing is so far out of maybe 6 reviews
> > of the BigHa I've seen I have yet to see a bad one. They
> > do say it's a heavy and expensive bike but overall a
> > good ride
> >
> >
>
> And of those six reviews, how many of the reviewers liked
> it so well that they were willing to pay $3000 of their
> own money for it? If they send me one, I'll probably say
> good things about it too. Send me almost anything free and
> I'll probably say something good about it. When you get a
> review product for free, price goes out of the equation.
> But for consumers who actually have to pay for a product,
> price is always a prime factor. Unless the consumer is so
> wealthy that money is meaningless. Is that your case?

While I'm not wealthy I could indeed buy one. While price IS
a factor it is just one of many otherwise we'd all be riding
the cheapest bike available
 
Mark Leuck wrote:

> "Lorenzo L. Love" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> k.net...
>
>>>The interesting thing is so far out of maybe 6 reviews
>>>of the BigHa I've seen I have yet to see a bad one. They
>>>do say it's a heavy and expensive bike but overall a
>>>good ride
>>>
>>>
>>
>>And of those six reviews, how many of the reviewers liked
>>it so well that they were willing to pay $3000 of their
>>own money for it? If they send me one, I'll probably say
>>good things about it too. Send me almost anything free and
>>I'll probably say something good about it. When you get a
>>review product for free, price goes out of the equation.
>>But for consumers who actually have to pay for a product,
>>price is always a prime factor. Unless the consumer is so
>>wealthy that money is meaningless. Is that your case?
>
>
> While I'm not wealthy I could indeed buy one. While price
> IS a factor it is just one of many otherwise we'd all be
> riding the cheapest bike available
>
>

So have you ordered it yet? When is it due to be delivered?

Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
 
Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
> Mark Leuck wrote:
>
>> "Larry Varney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:%[email protected]...
>>
>>> I'm glad to see that you're bringing other criteria
>>> into the discussion - it's not just a matter of
>>> weight/price. And yes, if there are bikes that are
>>> similar, to one degree or another, which are
>>> significantly cheaper - that's something else to
>>> consider.
>>> --
>>> Larry Varney Cold Spring, KY
>>> http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney
>>
>>
>>
>> The interesting thing is so far out of maybe 6 reviews
>> of the BigHa I've seen I have yet to see a bad one. They
>> do say it's a heavy and expensive bike but overall a
>> good ride
>>
>>
>
> And of those six reviews, how many of the reviewers liked
> it so well that they were willing to pay $3000 of their
> own money for it? If they send me one, I'll probably say
> good things about it too. Send me almost anything free and
> I'll probably say something good about it. When you get a
> review product for free, price goes out of the equation.
> But for consumers who actually have to pay for a product,
> price is always a prime factor. Unless the consumer is so
> wealthy that money is meaningless. Is that your case?
>
> Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> "If you would know the value of money, go and try to
> borrow some." Benjamin Franklin
>

You should realize that review bikes and trikes, while
often provided by the manufacturer for "free", they are
to be returned - they're not gifts. If you read the
reviews of this particular bike and others, you'll see
that "free" or not, good things and bad are mentioned.
Since it's not theirs to keep, there is no "deal" made to
insure nothing but good things be said about it. And
you've probably blown your chance of ever getting a
review bike from BiGHA or anyone else - your credibility
is blown by your own admission: "If they send me one,
I'll probably say good things about it too. Send me
almost anything free and I'll probably say something good
about it."

One thing people don't seem to realize, is that the most
honest evaluations come from those who *didn't* pay their
own money for something. If they did, they have a
psychological reason to justify the purchase. How many
people will admit that they've bought a piece of ****,
that their judgement is worse than faulty, that they
shouldn't be trusted to order lunch, much less a bike
that costs thousands of dollars? Price is a prime factor
in any purchase - no one has said it isn't. It's just
that it's not the only factor. Just as weight isn't the
only criteria to judge worth, neither is price.

--
Larry Varney Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney
 
Mark Leuck wrote:

> ... I would not buy one ONLY because I prefer low riders
> not because of the price....

Optima will come and confiscate your Baron if you refer to
it as a "low rider" instead of using the proper term
"lowracer."

--
Tom Sherman – Quad City Area
 
Larry Varney wrote:

> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>
>> Mark Leuck wrote:
>>
>>> "Larry Varney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:%[email protected]...
>>>
>>>> I'm glad to see that you're bringing other criteria
>>>> into the discussion - it's not just a matter of
>>>> weight/price. And yes, if there are bikes that are
>>>> similar, to one degree or another, which are
>>>> significantly cheaper - that's something else to
>>>> consider.
>>>> --
>>>> Larry Varney Cold Spring, KY
>>>> http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The interesting thing is so far out of maybe 6 reviews
>>> of the BigHa I've seen I have yet to see a bad one. They
>>> do say it's a heavy and expensive bike but overall a
>>> good ride
>>>
>>>
>>
>> And of those six reviews, how many of the reviewers liked
>> it so well that they were willing to pay $3000 of their
>> own money for it? If they send me one, I'll probably say
>> good things about it too. Send me almost anything free
>> and I'll probably say something good about it. When you
>> get a review product for free, price goes out of the
>> equation. But for consumers who actually have to pay for
>> a product, price is always a prime factor. Unless the
>> consumer is so wealthy that money is meaningless. Is that
>> your case?
>>
>> Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>
>> "If you would know the value of money, go and try to
>> borrow some." Benjamin Franklin
>>
>
> You should realize that review bikes and trikes, while
> often provided by the manufacturer for "free", they are
> to be returned - they're not gifts. If you read the
> reviews of this particular bike and others, you'll see
> that "free" or not, good things and bad are mentioned.
> Since it's not theirs to keep, there is no "deal" made
> to insure nothing but good things be said about it. And
> you've probably blown your chance of ever getting a
> review bike from BiGHA or anyone else - your credibility
> is blown by your own admission: "If they send me one,
> I'll probably say good things about it too. Send me
> almost anything free and I'll probably say something
> good about it."
>
> One thing people don't seem to realize, is that the most
> honest evaluations come from those who *didn't* pay
> their own money for something. If they did, they have a
> psychological reason to justify the purchase. How many
> people will admit that they've bought a piece of ****,
> that their judgement is worse than faulty, that they
> shouldn't be trusted to order lunch, much less a bike
> that costs thousands of dollars? Price is a prime factor
> in any purchase - no one has said it isn't. It's just
> that it's not the only factor. Just as weight isn't the
> only criteria to judge worth, neither is price.
>

Sure, that's why Consumer Reports only pays full retail for
the products they review. Anyone who's livelihood depends on
free review products, whether on loan or otherwise, has to
be very careful not to be too critical or he won't get any
more free review products. I'll ask again: Of those six
reviews, how many of the reviewers liked it so well that
they were willing to pay $3000 of their own money for it? No
one? Gee, what a surprise!

Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"You can fool half of the people all of the time and that's
enough to make a good living."
W.C. Fields
 
In article <[email protected]>, skip
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
> Slugger go buy yourself a RANS Tailwind - put a disc brake
> on it if you must - invest the additional two thousand
> dollars you would have spent on a BiGHA in a few good
> solid stocks. In five years you will be glad you did.
> Trust me on this.
>
> skip
>
>
Skip the tailwind is on my radar for sure. Already have some
solid stocks, hopefully they will go on a run soon.
 
"Lorenzo L. Love" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >
>
> Sure, that's why Consumer Reports only pays full retail
> for the products they review. Anyone who's livelihood
> depends on free review products, whether on loan or
> otherwise, has to be very careful not to be too critical
> or he won't get any more free review products.

That can happen no matter if the product is free or paid
for, I've seen it many times just about any product. If a
company does this that's a company to avoid. Are you saying
the reviews out there aren't being critical enough? If so
which reviews?

Also BigHa has sent out review products to several bent
specific publications (who were impressed with it) so I
seriously doubt they are afraid of the recumbent crowd.
Here's someone who bought one

http://www.bradandkathy.com/

> I'll ask again: Of those six reviews, how many of the
> reviewers liked it so well that they were willing to pay
> $3000 of their own money for it? No one? Gee, what a
> surprise!

I can think of a few hundred reviews of recumbents where
they didn't buy or say they would buy the bike they were
reviewing. Your statement is meaningless

Would you spend more than $3000 for a Segway? No but many
have
 
Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
> Larry Varney wrote:
>
>> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>>
>>> Mark Leuck wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Larry Varney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:%[email protected]...
>>>>
>>>>> I'm glad to see that you're bringing other criteria
>>>>> into the discussion - it's not just a matter of
>>>>> weight/price. And yes, if there are bikes that are
>>>>> similar, to one degree or another, which are
>>>>> significantly cheaper - that's something else to
>>>>> consider.
>>>>> --
>>>>> Larry Varney Cold Spring, KY
>>>>> http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The interesting thing is so far out of maybe 6 reviews
>>>> of the BigHa I've seen I have yet to see a bad one.
>>>> They do say it's a heavy and expensive bike but overall
>>>> a good ride
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> And of those six reviews, how many of the reviewers
>>> liked it so well that they were willing to pay $3000 of
>>> their own money for it? If they send me one, I'll
>>> probably say good things about it too. Send me almost
>>> anything free and I'll probably say something good about
>>> it. When you get a review product for free, price goes
>>> out of the equation. But for consumers who actually have
>>> to pay for a product, price is always a prime factor.
>>> Unless the consumer is so wealthy that money is
>>> meaningless. Is that your case?
>>>
>>> Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>>
>>> "If you would know the value of money, go and try to
>>> borrow some." Benjamin Franklin
>>>
>>
>> You should realize that review bikes and trikes, while
>> often provided by the manufacturer for "free", they are
>> to be returned - they're not gifts. If you read the
>> reviews of this particular bike and others, you'll see
>> that "free" or not, good things and bad are mentioned.
>> Since it's not theirs to keep, there is no "deal" made
>> to insure nothing but good things be said about it. And
>> you've probably blown your chance of ever getting a
>> review bike from BiGHA or anyone else - your
>> credibility is blown by your own admission: "If they
>> send me one, I'll probably say good things about it
>> too. Send me almost anything free and I'll probably say
>> something good about it."
>>
>> One thing people don't seem to realize, is that the
>> most honest evaluations come from those who *didn't*
>> pay their own money for something. If they did, they
>> have a psychological reason to justify the purchase.
>> How many people will admit that they've bought a piece
>> of ****, that their judgement is worse than faulty,
>> that they shouldn't be trusted to order lunch, much
>> less a bike that costs thousands of dollars? Price is a
>> prime factor in any purchase - no one has said it
>> isn't. It's just that it's not the only factor. Just as
>> weight isn't the only criteria to judge worth, neither
>> is price.
>>
>
> Sure, that's why Consumer Reports only pays full retail
> for the products they review. Anyone who's livelihood
> depends on free review products, whether on loan or
> otherwise, has to be very careful not to be too critical
> or he won't get any more free review products. I'll ask
> again: Of those six reviews, how many of the reviewers
> liked it so well that they were willing to pay $3000 of
> their own money for it? No one? Gee, what a surprise!
>
> Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>

Sure, and all of those magazines that have reviewed the
BiGHA have the funding of Consumer Reports. Anyone whose
livelihood depends on his readership believing in his
honesty, has to be fair in his evaluations of the
products reviewed. They can get all the "free" stuff they
want - and have to give back - but if the readers stop
reading, guess what? And you keep asking that question -
have you asked the reviewers? No? Is it because you don't
actually require an answer? Gee, what a surprise!

--
Larry Varney Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney
 
"Slugger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:090620042300418296%[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, skip
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Slugger go buy yourself a RANS Tailwind - put a disc
> > brake on it if you must - invest the additional two
> > thousand dollars you would have spent
on a
> > BiGHA in a few good solid stocks. In five years you will
> > be glad you
did.
> > Trust me on this.
> >
> > skip
> >
> >
> Skip the tailwind is on my radar for sure. Already have
> some solid stocks, hopefully they will go on a run soon.

The RANS Tailwind is the most underrated recumbent out
there. My only caveat is that if you are near 6 feet tall
you might want to avoid it as it is not really designed for
someone of that height. It will put too much weight on the
rear of the bike. RANS should really make a larger size for
us 6 footers. I have an early version of the Tailwind
however and it almost fits me although there is still a bit
too much weight on the rear of the bike.

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
Mark Leuck wrote:
> "Lorenzo L. Love" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Sure, that's why Consumer Reports only pays full retail
>>for the products they review. Anyone who's livelihood
>>depends on free review products, whether on loan or
>>otherwise, has to be very careful not to be too critical
>>or he won't get any more free review products.
>
>
> That can happen no matter if the product is free or paid
> for, I've seen it many times just about any product. If a
> company does this that's a company to avoid. Are you
> saying the reviews out there aren't being critical enough?
> If so which reviews?
>
> Also BigHa has sent out review products to several bent
> specific publications (who were impressed with it) so I
> seriously doubt they are afraid of the recumbent crowd.
> Here's someone who bought one
>
> http://www.bradandkathy.com/
>
>
>>I'll ask again: Of those six reviews, how many of the
>>reviewers liked it so well that they were willing to pay
>>$3000 of their own money for it? No one? Gee, what a
>>surprise!
>
>
> I can think of a few hundred reviews of recumbents where
> they didn't buy or say they would buy the bike they were
> reviewing. Your statement is meaningless
>
> Would you spend more than $3000 for a Segway? No but
> many have
>
>
>

He's not a reviwer, just a guy who hasn't rode a bike since
he was in collage and never a recumbent, just the type Bigha
is targeting.

Speaking of meaningless, yesterday you wrote: "While I'm not
wealthy I could indeed buy one. While price IS a factor it
is just one of many otherwise we'd all be riding the
cheapest bike available."

You never answered if you have ordered it yet.

Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
 
Larry Varney wrote:
> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>
>> Larry Varney wrote:
>>
>>> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>>>
>>>> Mark Leuck wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Larry Varney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>> news:%[email protected]...
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm glad to see that you're bringing other criteria
>>>>>> into the discussion - it's not just a matter of
>>>>>> weight/price. And yes, if there are bikes that are
>>>>>> similar, to one degree or another, which are
>>>>>> significantly cheaper - that's something else to
>>>>>> consider.
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Larry Varney Cold Spring, KY
>>>>>> http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The interesting thing is so far out of maybe 6 reviews
>>>>> of the BigHa I've seen I have yet to see a bad one.
>>>>> They do say it's a heavy and expensive bike but
>>>>> overall a good ride
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And of those six reviews, how many of the reviewers
>>>> liked it so well that they were willing to pay $3000 of
>>>> their own money for it? If they send me one, I'll
>>>> probably say good things about it too. Send me almost
>>>> anything free and I'll probably say something good
>>>> about
>>>> it. When you get a review product for free, price goes
>>>> out of the equation. But for consumers who actually
>>>> have to pay for a product, price is always a prime
>>>> factor. Unless the consumer is so wealthy that
>>>> money is meaningless. Is that your case?
>>>>
>>>> Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>>>
>>>> "If you would know the value of money, go and try to
>>>> borrow some." Benjamin Franklin
>>>>
>>>
>>> You should realize that review bikes and trikes, while
>>> often provided by the manufacturer for "free", they
>>> are to be returned - they're not gifts. If you read
>>> the reviews of this particular bike and others, you'll
>>> see that "free" or not, good things and bad are
>>> mentioned. Since it's not theirs to keep, there is no
>>> "deal" made to insure nothing but good things be said
>>> about it. And you've probably blown your chance of
>>> ever getting a review bike from BiGHA or anyone else -
>>> your credibility is blown by your own admission: "If
>>> they send me one, I'll probably say good things about
>>> it too. Send me almost anything free and I'll probably
>>> say something good about it."
>>>
>>> One thing people don't seem to realize, is that the
>>> most honest evaluations come from those who *didn't*
>>> pay their own money for something. If they did, they
>>> have a psychological reason to justify the purchase.
>>> How many people will admit that they've bought a piece
>>> of ****, that their judgement is worse than faulty,
>>> that they shouldn't be trusted to order lunch, much
>>> less a bike that costs thousands of dollars? Price is
>>> a prime factor in any purchase - no one has said it
>>> isn't. It's just that it's not the only factor. Just
>>> as weight isn't the only criteria to judge worth,
>>> neither is price.
>>>
>>
>> Sure, that's why Consumer Reports only pays full retail
>> for the products they review. Anyone who's livelihood
>> depends on free review products, whether on loan or
>> otherwise, has to be very careful not to be too critical
>> or he won't get any more free review products. I'll ask
>> again: Of those six reviews, how many of the reviewers
>> liked it so well that they were willing to pay $3000 of
>> their own money for it? No one? Gee, what a surprise!
>>
>> Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>
>
> Sure, and all of those magazines that have reviewed the
> BiGHA have the funding of Consumer Reports. Anyone whose
> livelihood depends on his readership believing in his
> honesty, has to be fair in his evaluations of the
> products reviewed. They can get all the "free" stuff
> they want - and have to give back - but if the readers
> stop reading, guess what? And you keep asking that
> question - have you asked the reviewers? No? Is it
> because you don't actually require an answer? Gee, what
> a surprise!
>
>

Haven't you been paying attention? The question to all
reviewers: Has any one of them liked the Bigha so much that
they paid $3000 for one of their own? So far, zero. Positive
reviews but not a single one thought it was worth their own
money. That tells me a lot.

Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
 
Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
> Mark Leuck wrote:
<snip>
>> I can think of a few hundred reviews of recumbents where
>> they didn't buy or say they would buy the bike they were
>> reviewing. Your statement is meaningless
>>
>> Would you spend more than $3000 for a Segway? No but
>> many have
>>
>>
>>
>
> He's not a reviwer, just a guy who hasn't rode a bike
> since he was in collage and never a recumbent, just the
> type Bigha is targeting.
>
> Speaking of meaningless, yesterday you wrote: "While I'm
> not wealthy I could indeed buy one. While price IS a
> factor it is just one of many otherwise we'd all be riding
> the cheapest bike available."
>
> You never answered if you have ordered it yet.
>
> Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>

Didn't you understand what he wrote? It seems pretty
simple. He says that he isn't wealthy, but he could
afford a BigHA. He says that price is a factor, but there
are many others. He contends that if it were the only
factor, then we'd all be riding the cheapest bikes
available. Myself, I find it a real puzzler why you keep
carrying on about this one particular bike. It can't be
just the price, as there are many that cost more. It
can't be just the weight, because there are many that
weigh more. So what is it? Is it really the simplistic
weight/price ratio, that seemingly ignores any other
factors? Sure, there is one guy on this list who claims
that these are the only factors in choosing a bike, but
no one really takes him seriously on this. And you keep
demanding of everyone that either they join you on your
jihad against BigHA, or explain why they haven't
purchased the bike. So, fair's fair, I guess: What bikes
did you order yesterday? What bikes did you not order?
And why not? We'll be waiting for your answers, and the
reasons behind those answers.

--
Larry Varney Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney
 
Larry Varney wrote:

> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>
>> Mark Leuck wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>>> I can think of a few hundred reviews of recumbents where
>>> they didn't buy or say they would buy the bike they were
>>> reviewing. Your statement is meaningless
>>>
>>> Would you spend more than $3000 for a Segway? No but
>>> many have
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> He's not a reviwer, just a guy who hasn't rode a bike
>> since he was in collage and never a recumbent, just the
>> type Bigha is targeting.
>>
>> Speaking of meaningless, yesterday you wrote: "While I'm
>> not wealthy I could indeed buy one. While price IS a
>> factor it is just one of many otherwise we'd all be
>> riding the cheapest bike available."
>>
>> You never answered if you have ordered it yet.
>>
>> Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>
>
> Didn't you understand what he wrote? It seems pretty
> simple. He says that he isn't wealthy, but he could
> afford a BigHA. He says that price is a factor, but
> there are many others. He contends that if it were the
> only factor, then we'd all be riding the cheapest bikes
> available. Myself, I find it a real puzzler why you keep
> carrying on about this one particular bike. It can't be
> just the price, as there are many that cost more. It
> can't be just the weight, because there are many that
> weigh more. So what is it? Is it really the simplistic
> weight/price ratio, that seemingly ignores any other
> factors? Sure, there is one guy on this list who claims
> that these are the only factors in choosing a bike, but
> no one really takes him seriously on this. And you keep
> demanding of everyone that either they join you on your
> jihad against BigHA, or explain why they haven't
> purchased the bike. So, fair's fair, I guess: What bikes
> did you order yesterday? What bikes did you not order?
> And why not? We'll be waiting for your answers, and the
> reasons behind those answers.
>

I'm just curious about why people are so supportive and
defensive about a bike that they themselves would never buy.
And why won't they buy it? For the obvious reasons that it
is way too expensive for a heavy bike, way too heavy for an
expensive bike or it comes from a bunch of people who
already have a bad reputation in the recumbent community.
Take your pick. So why are you so defensive of this
overpriced bike? Why do you want other people to spend a lot
of money on something you would not?

Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
 
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