Has anyone tried the Bigha?



"Lorenzo L. Love" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mark Leuck wrote:
>
> Add 15 pounds to an Optima Baron and it still weighs less
> then a Bigha.
>
> The Tour Easy is a tried and true design that the market
> has supported, very well for a generation. Who supports
> the Bigha in the marketplace? Not you. Not me.

When the Tour Easy came out it wasn't supported by
anyone either, its popularity grew over time just as any
other product

> Even though I like that class of bikes I wouldn't buy
> one because it costs an outrageous amount compared to
> similar bikes.

Thats fine, I don't think its intended to be sold to the
more hardcore crowd

> You wouldn't buy one even though you can find no fault
> with either cost or weight. From this sample of the
> marketplace, it's not doing so well.

But this sample of the marketplace isn't who they are trying
to sell to, sometimes it is easy to get so into a particular
product we wonder why nobody else buys what we like, the
marketplace is far greater than what we think it is.
 
> Add 15 pounds to an Optima Baron and it still weighs less
> then a Bigha.
>
> The Tour Easy is a tried and true design that the market
> has supported, very well for a generation. Who supports
> the Bigha in the marketplace? Not you. Not me. Even though
> I like that class of bikes I wouldn't buy one because it
> costs an outrageous amount compared to similar bikes. You
> wouldn't buy one even though you can find no fault with
> either cost or weight. From this sample of the
> marketplace, it's not doing so well.
>
> Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> "Americans are broad-minded people. They'll accept the
> fact that a person can be an alcoholic, a dope fiend, a
> wife beater, and even a newspaperman, but if a man doesn't
> drive there's something wrong with him." Art Buchwald

I'm sure this won't change your opinion of Bigha's value,
but you can now buy the bike for $2500 without the
electronics. And they have financing - or at least they did
last time I checked, but I can't find the info today.

I've seen two (different colors) Bighas here in La Jolla.
From the sample of my marketplace, they seem to be doing OK.
 
"Hashim El Amin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >
> > Add 15 pounds to an Optima Baron and it still weighs
> > less then a Bigha.
> >
> > The Tour Easy is a tried and true design that the market
> > has supported, very well for a generation. Who supports
> > the Bigha in the marketplace? Not you. Not me. Even
> > though I like that class of bikes I wouldn't buy one
> > because it costs an outrageous amount compared to
> > similar bikes. You wouldn't buy one even though you can
> > find no fault with either cost or weight. From this
> > sample of the marketplace, it's not doing so well.
> >
> > Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
> >
> > "Americans are broad-minded people. They'll accept the
> > fact that a person can be an alcoholic, a dope fiend, a
> > wife beater, and even a newspaperman, but if a man
> > doesn't drive there's something wrong with
him."
> > Art Buchwald
>
> I'm sure this won't change your opinion of Bigha's value,
> but you can now buy the bike for $2500 without the
> electronics. And they have financing - or at least they
> did last time I checked, but I can't find the info today.
>
> I've seen two (different colors) Bighas here in La
> Jolla. From the sample of my marketplace, they seem to
> be doing OK.

Are you saying people have bought them then? Lorenzo would
have a heart attack if that were true :)
 
"Mark Leuck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:VZcxc.19462$Sw.12636@attbi_s51...
>
> "Hashim El Amin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
[...]
> > I've seen two (different colors) Bighas here in La
> > Jolla. From the sample of my marketplace, they seem to
> > be doing OK.
>
> Are you saying people have bought them then? Lorenzo would
> have a heart attack if that were true :)

There is no one on this newsgroup I enjoy reading more than
Lorenzo. He is single minded and has the tenacity of a mad
dog. We could all learn from him how to focus and how to
concentrate our thoughts and how to press an argument. He is
the master, we are the students.

Although he thinks I am an idiot (he has said so in a
previous post) I have decided not to tangle with him just
yet as I do agree with him about the outrageous price of
the Bigha.

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
"Slugger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:060620041511553426%[email protected]...
> In article
> <[email protected]>,
> Sticker Jim <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > If he had of simply typed "bigha review" in any search
> > engine, he
wouldn't
> > have needed to make the initial post either :)
> >
> > "Randy Rhine" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:B6adnYOHItyx5l7dRVn-
> > [email protected]...
> > >
> > >
> > > Slugger wrote:
> > > > In article
> > > > <[email protected]>,
> > > > Zach Kaplan Cycles <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>For a detailed review of it you might want to read
> > > >>my article on it
in
> > > >>Recumbent Cyclist News #80 (January-February 2004
> > > >>issue).
> > > >>
> > > >>Zach Kaplan
> > > >
> > > > got a link for that?
> > >
> > > Why do people ask for a link when all they gotta do is
> > > use a search
> > engine?
> > >
> >
> >
> uh huh..so what is the point of usenet?
[...]

That is a most excellent question Slugger. As a professional
university research librarian I can tell you that there are
very few who know how to find their way around a great
research library containing millions of documents. Even
Ph.D. scholars can easily get lost in the complexities of
finding their way through a great research library. That is
why there are librarians with Master's degrees to help with
the process.

However, computers make all of this a no brainer. You can
now do a search as easily as any Ph.D. scholar. I think
newsgroups (usenet) are basically for chatter. We humans are
like monkeys and we like to chatter to one another. That is
why I post the way I do. I am not enamored of the
informational aspects of newsgroups. It seems to me
newsgroups are primarily for social intercourse. Those who
use newsgroups for strictly informational purposes are
totally missing the boat. Newsgroups are for human
intercourse pure and simple. That is why I never stay
strictly on-topic. That is for ignoramuses and fools. I want
to entertain and amuse my fellow human beings. If only they
would reciprocate!

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
Edward Dolan wrote:
> "Mark Leuck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:VZcxc.19462$Sw.12636@attbi_s51...
>
>>"Hashim El Amin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>
> [...]
>
>>>I've seen two (different colors) Bighas here in La
>>>Jolla. From the sample of my marketplace, they seem to
>>>be doing OK.
>>
>>Are you saying people have bought them then? Lorenzo would
>>have a heart attack if that were true :)
>
>
> There is no one on this newsgroup I enjoy reading more
> than Lorenzo. He is single minded and has the tenacity of
> a mad dog. We could all learn from him how to focus and
> how to concentrate our thoughts and how to press an
> argument. He is the master, we are the students.
>
> Although he thinks I am an idiot (he has said so in a
> previous post) I have decided not to tangle with him just
> yet as I do agree with him about the outrageous price of
> the Bigha.
>

Idiot, imbecile, moron, fool, something in that general
family. If anyone paid $3000 for a Bigha, it just shows that
you are not alone. Since Bigha is targeting as their
customers people who know next to nothing about bicycling in
general and incumbents in particular, it's not surprising
that they can find someone with more money then sense.

Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"Let us be thankful for the fools; but for them the rest of
us could not succeed.” Mark Twain
 
"Lorenzo L. Love" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Edward Dolan wrote:
[...]
> > There is no one on this newsgroup I enjoy reading more
> > than Lorenzo. He
is
> > single minded and has the tenacity of a mad dog. We
> > could all learn from
him
> > how to focus and how to concentrate our thoughts and how
> > to press an argument. He is the master, we are the
> > students.
> >
> > Although he thinks I am an idiot (he has said so in a
> > previous post) I
have
> > decided not to tangle with him just yet as I do agree
> > with him about the outrageous price of the Bigha.
> >
>
> Idiot, imbecile, moron, fool, something in that general
> family. If anyone paid $3000 for a Bigha, it just shows
> that you are not alone. Since Bigha is targeting as their
> customers people who know next to nothing about bicycling
> in general and recumbents in particular, it's not
> surprising that they can find someone with more money
> then sense.
>
> Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> "Let us be thankful for the fools; but for them the rest
> of us could not succeed.” Mark Twain

I couldn't have said that better myself! Have I at long last
found a kindred spirit?

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
Lorenzo L. Love wrote:

<snip>
>
> Idiot, imbecile, moron, fool, something in that general
> family. If anyone paid $3000 for a Bigha, it just shows
> that you are not alone. Since Bigha is targeting as their
> customers people who know next to nothing about bicycling
> in general and incumbents in particular, it's not
> surprising that they can find someone with more money
> then sense.
>
> Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>

Have you seen or ridden a BiGHA yet? Or are your opinions
still based on just two things - the weight and price? Are
those two criteria all that matter? Are they valid
criteria for everything, for all bikes, for cars, dogs,
sandwiches? Let's look at it this way. When you go into a
restaurant, do you look at just the price and weight of
the menu items? Do you feel that someone who, for
instance, buys a filet mignon, which weighs quite a bit
less and costs quite a bit more, than other cuts of meat -
do you feel that this person is an "idiot, imbecile,
moron, fool, something in that general family"? If not,
why not? Could it be that there are other criteria that
may be involved when picking out some food item? And
couldn't it also be possible that there are other criteria
that are involved when picking out a bike? Oh, one thing:
if and when you respond to this post, will you answer the
questions I have asked, or will you instead ask me if I
have bought, or plan to buy, a BiGHA? Anyone laying odds?
 
"Larry Varney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>
> <snip>
> >
> > Idiot, imbecile, moron, fool, something in that general
> > family. If anyone paid $3000 for a Bigha, it just shows
> > that you are not alone. Since Bigha is targeting as
> > their customers people who know next to nothing about
> > bicycling in general and incumbents in particular, it's
> > not surprising that they can find someone with more
> > money then sense.
> >
> > Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
> >
>
> Have you seen or ridden a BiGHA yet? Or are your
> opinions still based on just two things - the weight and
> price? Are those two criteria all that matter? Are they
> valid criteria for everything, for all bikes, for cars,
> dogs, sandwiches? Let's look at it this way. When you go
> into a restaurant, do you look at just the price and
> weight of the menu items? Do you feel that someone who,
> for instance, buys a filet mignon, which weighs quite a
> bit less and costs quite a bit more, than other cuts of
> meat - do you feel that this person is an "idiot,
> imbecile, moron, fool, something in that general
> family"? If not, why not?

The steak must be garbage because its large and expensive :)
 
"Larry Varney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>
> <snip>
> >
> > Idiot, imbecile, moron, fool, something in that general
> > family. If anyone paid $3000 for a Bigha, it just shows
> > that you are not alone. Since Bigha is targeting as
> > their customers people who know next to nothing about
> > bicycling in general and incumbents in particular, it's
> > not surprising that they can find someone with more
> > money then sense.
> >
> > Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
> >
>
> Have you seen or ridden a BiGHA yet? Or are your
> opinions still based on just two things - the weight and
> price? Are those two criteria all that matter? Are they
> valid criteria for everything, for all bikes, for cars,
> dogs, sandwiches? Let's look at it this way. When you go
> into a restaurant, do you look at just the price and
> weight of the menu items? Do you feel that someone who,
> for instance, buys a filet mignon, which weighs quite a
> bit less and costs quite a bit more, than other cuts of
> meat - do you feel that this person is an "idiot,
> imbecile, moron, fool, something in that general
> family"? If not, why not? Could it be that there are
> other criteria that may be involved when picking out
> some food item? And couldn't it also be possible that
> there are other criteria that are involved when picking
> out a bike?

Mr. Varney! The price of the Bigha is so far out of line
that you would have to be crazy as a loon to pay that
much for it. The manufacturer ought to be charged with
highway robbery. Lorenzo said it best. But thank God for
all the fools in the world as it makes it that much
easier on the rest of us who are not fools.

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
Edward Dolan wrote:
> "Larry Varney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>>
>><snip>
>>
>>>Idiot, imbecile, moron, fool, something in that general
>>>family. If anyone paid $3000 for a Bigha, it just shows
>>>that you are not alone. Since Bigha is targeting as their
>>>customers people who know next to nothing about bicycling
>>>in general and incumbents in particular, it's not
>>>surprising that they can find someone with more money
>>>then sense.
>>>
>>>Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>>
>>
>> Have you seen or ridden a BiGHA yet? Or are your
>> opinions still based on just two things - the weight and
>> price? Are those two criteria all that matter? Are they
>> valid criteria for everything, for all bikes, for cars,
>> dogs, sandwiches? Let's look at it this way. When you go
>> into a restaurant, do you look at just the price and
>> weight of the menu items? Do you feel that someone who,
>> for instance, buys a filet mignon, which weighs quite a
>> bit less and costs quite a bit more, than other cuts of
>> meat - do you feel that this person is an "idiot,
>> imbecile, moron, fool, something in that general
>> family"? If not, why not? Could it be that there are
>> other criteria that may be involved when picking out
>> some food item? And couldn't it also be possible that
>> there are other criteria that are involved when picking
>> out a bike?
>
>
> Mr. Varney! The price of the Bigha is so far out of line
> that you would have to be crazy as a loon to pay that
> much for it. The manufacturer ought to be charged with
> highway robbery. Lorenzo said it best. But thank God
> for all the fools in the world as it makes it that
> much easier on the rest of us who are not fools.
>

There are more expensive bikes out there, aren't they? So
it can't be just the price that you're complaining about,
right? What other criteria are you using, to judge it as
being "so far out of line"? And have you ever seen or
ridden a BiGHA?

--
Larry Varney Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney
 
"Larry Varney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Edward Dolan wrote:
> > "Larry Varney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >
> >>Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
> >>
> >><snip>
> >>
> >>>Idiot, imbecile, moron, fool, something in that general
> >>>family. If anyone paid $3000 for a Bigha, it just shows
> >>>that you are not alone. Since Bigha is targeting as
> >>>their customers people who know next to nothing about
> >>>bicycling in general and incumbents in particular, it's
> >>>not surprising that they can find someone with more
> >>>money then sense.
> >>>
> >>>Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
> >>>
> >>
> >> Have you seen or ridden a BiGHA yet? Or are your
> >> opinions still based on just two things - the weight
> >> and price? Are those two criteria all that matter? Are
> >> they valid criteria for everything, for all bikes, for
> >> cars, dogs, sandwiches? Let's look at it this way.
> >> When you go into a restaurant, do you look at just the
> >> price and weight of the menu items? Do you feel that
> >> someone who, for instance, buys a filet mignon, which
> >> weighs quite a bit less and costs quite a bit more,
> >> than other cuts of meat - do you feel that this person
> >> is an "idiot, imbecile, moron, fool, something in that
> >> general family"? If not, why not? Could it be that
> >> there are other criteria that may be involved when
> >> picking out some food item? And couldn't it also be
> >> possible that there are other criteria that are
> >> involved when picking out a bike?
> >
> >
> > Mr. Varney! The price of the Bigha is so far out of line
> > that you would
have
> > to be crazy as a loon to pay that much for it. The
> > manufacturer ought to
be
> > charged with highway robbery. Lorenzo said it best. But
> > thank God for
all
> > the fools in the world as it makes it that much easier
> > on the rest of us
who
> > are not fools.
> >
>
> There are more expensive bikes out there, aren't they?
> So it can't be just the price that you're complaining
> about, right? What other criteria are you using, to
> judge it as being "so far out of line"? And have you
> ever seen or ridden a BiGHA?

Well, I have seen it (pictures), but no, I have not
ridden it. But how necessary can that be? It is possible
to judge something based on price alone believe it or
not. I do it all the time with respect to almost
everything under the sun. Are you a millionaire who never
has to consider the price of anything? I guess if I am
going to pay a premium price for a bicycle, it had better
well be damned light weight!

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
Larry Varney wrote:

> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>>Idiot, imbecile, moron, fool, something in that general
>>family. If anyone paid $3000 for a Bigha, it just shows
>>that you are not alone. Since Bigha is targeting as their
>>customers people who know next to nothing about bicycling
>>in general and incumbents in particular, it's not
>>surprising that they can find someone with more money
>>then sense.
>>
>>Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>
>
>
> Have you seen or ridden a BiGHA yet? Or are your
> opinions still based on just two things - the weight and
> price? Are those two criteria all that matter? Are they
> valid criteria for everything, for all bikes, for cars,
> dogs, sandwiches? Let's look at it this way. When you go
> into a restaurant, do you look at just the price and
> weight of the menu items? Do you feel that someone who,
> for instance, buys a filet mignon, which weighs quite a
> bit less and costs quite a bit more, than other cuts of
> meat - do you feel that this person is an "idiot,
> imbecile, moron, fool, something in that general
> family"? If not, why not? Could it be that there are
> other criteria that may be involved when picking out
> some food item? And couldn't it also be possible that
> there are other criteria that are involved when picking
> out a bike? Oh, one thing: if and when you respond to
> this post, will you answer the questions I have asked,
> or will you instead ask me if I have bought, or plan to
> buy, a BiGHA? Anyone laying odds?
>

What matters is that you or I could buy a similar bike for
one half to one quarter of the Bigha's price. Would you pay
two to four times as much as you needed to? No, because (I
assume) you are not a idiot, imbecile, moron, fool or
something in that general family. But go ahead and prove me
wrong. And there are other criteria involved in picking a
bike, the reputation and integrity of the company. What kind
of reputation and integrity do the former BikeE owners who
now run Bigha have? There are reasons Bigha is not marketing
through recumbent dealers. One reason is that after being
betrayed by these same people, the dealers do not trust them
not to walk away when the going gets tough, again leaving
the dealers in the lurch. Another reason is that the people
who patronize recumbent dealers are too informed and
educated about recumbents to spend two to four times as much
as they need to. Hence Bigha's policy of targeting people
who know nothing about recumbents.

Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"There was a time when a fool and his money were soon
parted, but now it happens to everybody." Adlai E. Stevenson
 
"Lorenzo L. Love" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>> >
>
> What matters is that you or I could buy a similar bike for
> one half to one quarter of the Bigha's price.

The key word is "could", I "could" have purchased a BikeE
but instead I purchased a Vision at double the price. I
"liked" it better.

> Would you pay two to four times as much as you needed to?

The key word is "needed". I don't know anyone who needs to
buy a recumbent, instead they choose to.

> No, because (I assume) you are not a idiot, imbecile,
> moron, fool or something in that general family. But go
> ahead and prove me wrong.

He cannot prove someone is a not an idiot, imbecil, moron or
fool any more than you can prove they are. It's a matter of
opinion. An opinion that sometimes is wrong

> And there are other criteria involved in picking a bike,
> the reputation and integrity of the company. What kind of
> reputation and integrity do the former BikeE owners who
> now run Bigha have? There are reasons Bigha is not
> marketing through recumbent dealers. One reason is that
> after being betrayed by these same people, the dealers do
> not trust them not to walk away when the going gets tough,
> again leaving the dealers in the lurch.

And now we know the real reason you are against BigHa, its
not the bike it's the company, fair enough however people
bought BikeE's because they liked the bike not because they
knew anything about the company. Hell I know nothing about
Optima, if they went belly-up and some former employees
started another company I would consider buying a bike from
them as long as it's one I LIKE. Vision is now gone and if
they went the same way as BigHa in starting back up again
I'd consider buying a bike from them (assuming I didn't
have the Baron) because I LIKE the bike. BTW: I knew
NOTHING about Vision's financial health until they were
pretty much gone.

It appears that according to your website you own at least 4
bikes, did you really know anything about the reputation and
integrity of each company that made them? I doubt it. How
many people here really REALLY know the health of the
company that made their bikes? How many care beyond the
usual "Oh gosh sad to see them go..." after they are gone.

> Another reason is that the people who patronize recumbent
> dealers are too informed and educated about recumbents to
> spend two to four times as much as they need to. Hence
> Bigha's policy of targeting people who know nothing about
recumbents.

Around the Dallas/Ft Worth area its mostly Easy Racers, a
few Visions and lots of BikeE's and I'll bet a paycheck they
know NOTHING about the company who made the bike or care.
Aside from the people here and myself I've yet to find
ANYONE who knows any more about the bike they ride than
someone with a DF type bike. Around here they bought the
bike because

A: It was different (my reason too)
B: They were overweight and didn't want the small seat a
standard bike uses (my reason too)
C: They liked the look (my reason too)

Thats the typical customer no matter the product, they are
nothing like anyone in this newsgroup
 
Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
> Larry Varney wrote:
>
>> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> Idiot, imbecile, moron, fool, something in that general
>>> family. If anyone paid $3000 for a Bigha, it just shows
>>> that you are not alone. Since Bigha is targeting as
>>> their customers people who know next to nothing about
>>> bicycling in general and incumbents in particular, it's
>>> not surprising that they can find someone with more
>>> money then sense.
>>>
>>> Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>>
>>
>>
>> Have you seen or ridden a BiGHA yet? Or are your
>> opinions still based on just two things - the weight
>> and price? Are those two criteria all that matter? Are
>> they valid criteria for everything, for all bikes, for
>> cars, dogs, sandwiches? Let's look at it this way. When
>> you go into a restaurant, do you look at just the price
>> and weight of the menu items? Do you feel that someone
>> who, for instance, buys a filet mignon, which weighs
>> quite a bit less and costs quite a bit more, than other
>> cuts of meat - do you feel that this person is an
>> "idiot, imbecile, moron, fool, something in that
>> general family"? If not, why not? Could it be that
>> there are other criteria that may be involved when
>> picking out some food item? And couldn't it also be
>> possible that there are other criteria that are
>> involved when picking out a bike? Oh, one thing: if and
>> when you respond to this post, will you answer the
>> questions I have asked, or will you instead ask me if I
>> have bought, or plan to buy, a BiGHA? Anyone laying
>> odds?
>>
>
> What matters is that you or I could buy a similar bike for
> one half to one quarter of the Bigha's price. Would you
> pay two to four times as much as you needed to? No,
> because (I assume) you are not a idiot, imbecile, moron,
> fool or something in that general family. But go ahead and
> prove me wrong. And there are other criteria involved in
> picking a bike, the reputation and integrity of the
> company. What kind of reputation and integrity do the
> former BikeE owners who now run Bigha have? There are
> reasons Bigha is not marketing through recumbent dealers.
> One reason is that after being betrayed by these same
> people, the dealers do not trust them not to walk away
> when the going gets tough, again leaving the dealers in
> the lurch. Another reason is that the people who patronize
> recumbent dealers are too informed and educated about
> recumbents to spend two to four times as much as they need
> to. Hence Bigha's policy of targeting people who know
> nothing about recumbents.
>
> Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>

I'm glad to see that you're bringing other criteria into
the discussion - it's not just a matter of weight/price.
And yes, if there are bikes that are similar, to one
degree or another, which are significantly cheaper -
that's something else to consider.
--
Larry Varney Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney
 
Edward Dolan wrote:
> "Larry Varney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Edward Dolan wrote:
>>
>>>"Larry Varney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>>>>
>>>><snip>
>>>>
>>>>>Idiot, imbecile, moron, fool, something in that general
>>>>>family. If anyone paid $3000 for a Bigha, it just shows
>>>>>that you are not alone. Since Bigha is targeting as
>>>>>their customers people who know next to nothing about
>>>>>bicycling in general and incumbents in particular, it's
>>>>>not surprising that they can find someone with more
>>>>>money then sense.
>>>>>
>>>>>Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Have you seen or ridden a BiGHA yet? Or are your
>>>> opinions still based on just two things - the weight
>>>> and price? Are those two criteria all that matter? Are
>>>> they valid criteria for everything, for all bikes, for
>>>> cars, dogs, sandwiches? Let's look at it this way. When
>>>> you go into a restaurant, do you look at just the price
>>>> and weight of the menu items? Do you feel that someone
>>>> who, for instance, buys a filet mignon, which weighs
>>>> quite a bit less and costs quite a bit more, than other
>>>> cuts of meat - do you feel that this person is an
>>>> "idiot, imbecile, moron, fool, something in that
>>>> general family"? If not, why not? Could it be that
>>>> there are other criteria that may be involved when
>>>> picking out some food item? And couldn't it also be
>>>> possible that there are other criteria that are
>>>> involved when picking out a bike?
>>>
>>>
>>>Mr. Varney! The price of the Bigha is so far out of line
>>> that you would
>
> have
>
>>>to be crazy as a loon to pay that much for it. The
>>>manufacturer ought to
>
> be
>
>>>charged with highway robbery. Lorenzo said it best. But
>>>thank God for
>
> all
>
>>>the fools in the world as it makes it that much easier on
>>>the rest of us
>
> who
>
>>>are not fools.
>>>
>>
>> There are more expensive bikes out there, aren't they?
>> So it can't be just the price that you're complaining
>> about, right? What other criteria are you using, to
>> judge it as being "so far out of line"? And have you
>> ever seen or ridden a BiGHA?
>
>
> Well, I have seen it (pictures), but no, I have not
> ridden it. But how necessary can that be? It is possible
> to judge something based on price alone believe it or
> not. I do it all the time with respect to almost
> everything under the sun. Are you a millionaire who never
> has to consider the price of anything? I guess if I am
> going to pay a premium price for a bicycle, it had better
> well be damned light weight!
>

Yes, it is possible to judge something based on price
alone. But to be logical about it, would you not then
condemn all bikes that cost the same or more than the
BiGHA? But I do see that you're bringing weight into the
matter. Right? Is that he only criteria that you use to
determine the value of a bike - the weight? Do you do
this with food as well? When you go into a restaurant, do
you buy strictly on a weight/price criteria? Is the best
thing on the menu - in your opinion - simply a matter of
how much per ounce are you paying? To put it simply, for
many people there are more criteria in determining the
worth of something, other than just its weight. There are
others. Can you think of some?

--
Larry Varney Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney
 
"Larry Varney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Edward Dolan wrote:
> > "Larry Varney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
[...]
> >> There are more expensive bikes out there, aren't
> >> they? So it can't be just the price that you're
> >> complaining about, right? What other criteria are you
> >> using, to judge it as being "so far out of line"? And
> >> have you ever seen or ridden a BiGHA?
> >
> >
> > Well, I have seen it (pictures), but no, I have not
> > ridden it. But how necessary can that be? It is possible
> > to judge something based on price alone believe it or
> > not. I do it all the time with respect to almost
> > everything under the sun. Are you a millionaire who
> > never has to
consider
> > the price of anything? I guess if I am going to pay a
> > premium price for
a
> > bicycle, it had better well be damned light weight!
> >
>
> Yes, it is possible to judge something based on price
> alone. But to be logical about it, would you not then
> condemn all bikes that cost the same or more than the
> BiGHA? But I do see that you're bringing weight into
> the matter. Right? Is that he only criteria that you
> use to determine the value of a bike - the weight? Do
> you do this with food as well? When you go into a
> restaurant, do you buy strictly on a weight/price
> criteria? Is the best thing on the menu - in your
> opinion - simply a matter of how much per ounce are you
> paying? To put it simply, for many people there are
> more criteria in determining the worth of something,
> other than just its weight. There are others. Can you
> think of some?

When it comes to bikes, it is all about price and weight.
You food analogy is all wrong. Taste becomes a very
important consideration when it comes to food. I am not into
bike components. Basically a bike is a frame and two wheels.
With a recumbent, the design (configuration) of the bike is
also very important. Everything else is Mickey Mouse. I
leave it to Lorenzo to ask the critical question - and we
all know by now what that question is!

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
"Mark Leuck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:f2uxc.5814$0y.5495@attbi_s03...
>
> "Lorenzo L. Love" <[email protected]> wrote in
> message news:[email protected]
> arthlink.net...
> >> >
> >
> > What matters is that you or I could buy a similar bike
> > for one half to one quarter of the Bigha's price.
>
> The key word is "could", I "could" have purchased a BikeE
> but instead I purchased a Vision at double the price. I
> "liked" it better.
>
> > Would you pay two to four times as much as you
> > needed to?
>
> The key word is "needed". I don't know anyone who needs
> to buy a
recumbent,
> instead they choose to.
>
> > No, because (I assume) you are not a idiot, imbecile,
> > moron, fool or something in that general family. But go
> > ahead and prove me wrong.
>
> He cannot prove someone is a not an idiot, imbecil, moron
> or fool any more than you can prove they are. It's a
> matter of opinion. An opinion that sometimes is wrong
>
> > And there are other criteria involved in picking a bike,
> > the reputation and integrity of the company. What kind
> > of reputation and integrity do the former BikeE owners
> > who now run Bigha have? There are reasons Bigha is not
> > marketing through recumbent dealers. One reason is that
> > after being betrayed by these same people, the dealers
> > do not trust them not to walk away when the going gets
> > tough, again leaving the dealers in the lurch.
>
> And now we know the real reason you are against BigHa, its
> not the bike
it's
> the company, fair enough however people bought BikeE's
> because they liked the bike not because they knew
> anything about the company. Hell I know nothing about
> Optima, if they went belly-up and some former employees
> started another company I would consider buying a bike
> from them as long
as
> it's one I LIKE. Vision is now gone and if they went the
> same way as BigHa in starting back up again I'd consider
> buying a bike from them (assuming I didn't have the
> Baron) because I LIKE the bike. BTW: I knew NOTHING
> about Vision's financial health until they were pretty
> much gone.
>
> It appears that according to your website you own at least
> 4 bikes, did
you
> really know anything about the reputation and integrity of
> each company
that
> made them? I doubt it. How many people here really REALLY
> know the health
of
> the company that made their bikes? How many care beyond
> the usual "Oh gosh sad to see them go..." after they
> are gone.
>
> > Another reason is that the people who patronize
> > recumbent dealers are too informed and educated about
> > recumbents to spend two to four times as much as they
> > need to. Hence Bigha's policy of targeting people who
> > know nothing about
> recumbents.
>
> Around the Dallas/Ft Worth area its mostly Easy Racers, a
> few Visions and lots of BikeE's and I'll bet a paycheck
> they know NOTHING about the
company
> who made the bike or care. Aside from the people here and
> myself I've yet
to
> find ANYONE who knows any more about the bike they ride
> than someone with
a
> DF type bike. Around here they bought the bike because
>
> A: It was different (my reason too)
> B: They were overweight and didn't want the small seat a
> standard bike
uses
> (my reason too)
> C: They liked the look (my reason too)
>
> Thats the typical customer no matter the product, they are
> nothing like anyone in this newsgroup

An excellent post Mark. Unlike Lorenzo, I don't give a damn
about the companies that make any of this recumbent stuff. I
will buy on the basis of perceived value. For me the Bigha
is outrageously over priced. Price always matters the most
to me. It is really the most important consideration when it
comes to buying something that I don't really need (like a
recumbent bicycle). Most people fall into my category of
consumer and that is the reason why Wal-Mart is so
successful. I really envy folks who will buy a Bigha and
think they have gotten good value for their money. I wish I
could be that naive and foolish.

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
Edward Dolan wrote:
> "Larry Varney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Edward Dolan wrote:
>>
>>>"Larry Varney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected]...
>
> [...]
>
>>>> There are more expensive bikes out there, aren't they?
>>>> So it can't be just the price that you're complaining
>>>> about, right? What other criteria are you using, to
>>>> judge it as being "so far out of line"? And have you
>>>> ever seen or ridden a BiGHA?
>>>
>>>
>>>Well, I have seen it (pictures), but no, I have not
>>>ridden it. But how necessary can that be? It is possible
>>>to judge something based on price alone believe it or
>>>not. I do it all the time with respect to almost
>>>everything under the sun. Are you a millionaire who
>>>never has to
>
> consider
>
>>>the price of anything? I guess if I am going to pay a
>>>premium price for
>
> a
>
>>>bicycle, it had better well be damned light weight!
>>>
>>
>> Yes, it is possible to judge something based on price
>> alone. But to be logical about it, would you not then
>> condemn all bikes that cost the same or more than the
>> BiGHA? But I do see that you're bringing weight into
>> the matter. Right? Is that he only criteria that you
>> use to determine the value of a bike - the weight? Do
>> you do this with food as well? When you go into a
>> restaurant, do you buy strictly on a weight/price
>> criteria? Is the best thing on the menu - in your
>> opinion - simply a matter of how much per ounce are you
>> paying? To put it simply, for many people there are
>> more criteria in determining the worth of something,
>> other than just its weight. There are others. Can you
>> think of some?
>
>
> When it comes to bikes, it is all about price and weight.
> You food analogy is all wrong. Taste becomes a very
> important consideration when it comes to food. I am not
> into bike components. Basically a bike is a frame and two
> wheels. With a recumbent, the design (configuration) of
> the bike is also very important. Everything else is Mickey
> Mouse. I leave it to Lorenzo to ask the critical question
> - and we all know by now what that question is!
>

When it comes to bikes, when it comes to almost
*anything* - there are seldom so few criteria that need
to be considered. Weight is not the only thing that
determines the value - that should be obvious to anyone.
You mentioned design. That is one critiera. Components
are another. History of the company, as pointed out by
Mr. Love, is yet another. Appearance, too, is a criteria
that many use, though it is very subjective. How the bike
is sold (through dealers or only direct from the
factory), followup service, manuals and documentation -
the list goes on and on These are all criteria in
determining the worth of a bike. Anyone should be able to
see that weight alone will not tell you if it's worth the
money or not.

--
Larry Varney Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney
 
Mark Leuck wrote:

> "Lorenzo L. Love" <[email protected]> wrote in
> message news:[email protected]
> arthlink.net...
>
>>What matters is that you or I could buy a similar bike for
>>one half to one quarter of the Bigha's price.
>
>
> The key word is "could", I "could" have purchased a BikeE
> but instead I purchased a Vision at double the price. I
> "liked" it better.
>
>
>>Would you pay two to four times as much as you needed to?
>
>
> The key word is "needed". I don't know anyone who needs to
> buy a recumbent, instead they choose to.
>
>
>>No, because (I assume) you are not a idiot, imbecile,
>>moron, fool or something in that general family. But go
>>ahead and prove me wrong.
>
>
> He cannot prove someone is a not an idiot, imbecil, moron
> or fool any more than you can prove they are. It's a
> matter of opinion. An opinion that sometimes is wrong
>
>
>>And there are other criteria involved in picking a bike,
>>the reputation and integrity of the company. What kind of
>>reputation and integrity do the former BikeE owners who
>>now run Bigha have? There are reasons Bigha is not
>>marketing through recumbent dealers. One reason is that
>>after being betrayed by these same people, the dealers do
>>not trust them not to walk away when the going gets tough,
>>again leaving the dealers in the lurch.
>
>
> And now we know the real reason you are against BigHa, its
> not the bike it's the company, fair enough however people
> bought BikeE's because they liked the bike not because
> they knew anything about the company. Hell I know nothing
> about Optima, if they went belly-up and some former
> employees started another company I would consider buying
> a bike from them as long as it's one I LIKE. Vision is now
> gone and if they went the same way as BigHa in starting
> back up again I'd consider buying a bike from them
> (assuming I didn't have the Baron) because I LIKE the
> bike. BTW: I knew NOTHING about Vision's financial health
> until they were pretty much gone.
>
> It appears that according to your website you own at least
> 4 bikes, did you really know anything about the reputation
> and integrity of each company that made them? I doubt it.
> How many people here really REALLY know the health of the
> company that made their bikes? How many care beyond the
> usual "Oh gosh sad to see them go..." after they are gone.
>
>
>>Another reason is that the people who patronize recumbent
>>dealers are too informed and educated about recumbents to
>>spend two to four times as much as they need to. Hence
>>Bigha's policy of targeting people who know nothing about
>
> recumbents.
>
> Around the Dallas/Ft Worth area its mostly Easy Racers, a
> few Visions and lots of BikeE's and I'll bet a paycheck
> they know NOTHING about the company who made the bike or
> care. Aside from the people here and myself I've yet to
> find ANYONE who knows any more about the bike they ride
> than someone with a DF type bike. Around here they bought
> the bike because
>
> A: It was different (my reason too)
> B: They were overweight and didn't want the small seat a
> standard bike uses (my reason too)
> C: They liked the look (my reason too)
>
> Thats the typical customer no matter the product, they are
> nothing like anyone in this newsgroup
>

I and most people assume that a company or a person is
honest and reliable... until they get screwed over by that
company or person. If you buy a product from a group of
people who abandon their company, abandon their product
support, abandon their warranties, leave dealers hanging
with orders unfilled and lie to you as they do all this...
are you going to buy again from this same group of people
operating under a new name? It's said that the definition of
insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting
different outcomes.

Maybe you as so rich that you can afford to pay two to four
times the competitive price for a product from a group of
people known to be unreliable, but most of the rest of us
are not. If you are, I got a bridge for sale.

Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"One reason that the ignorant also tend to be the blissfully
self-assured, the researchers believe, is that the skills
required for competence often are the same skills necessary
to recognize competence." Erica Goode
 
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