Has anyone tried the Bigha?



"Mark Leuck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:DDyyc.86123$Ly.38150@attbi_s01...
>
> "Melinda Meahan - remove TRASH to reply" <[email protected]> wrote in
> message news:[email protected]...
> > Larry Varney wrote:
> >
> > > I think it's always dangerous to start figuring that any individual
> > > knows what is best for any other individual, what they should wear,
what
> > > they should eat, and what they should spend their money on.
> > > You have judged this particular bike not to be worth the money (a
good
> > > value) - for you. But how can you be so sure that it's not a good
value
> > > for someone else? You know the criteria that you're using to determine
> > > the "best value", but is it the same as someone else's?
> >
> > That's not what I am saying. I am saying that if you spend $3K on that
> > bike, a lot of what you are buying according to the old marketing ditty,
> > is "sizzle" and not "steak." Paying a large price for "sizzle" makes
> > something not a good value. That doesn't mean that some people won't
> > prefer it.
>
> Simple capitalistic principle "Price what the market will bear". Since
none
> of us have ridden the thing we can't really judge if its got a lot of
steak
> or not.

I do not think that is true at all. I can judge of something without ever
having any experience of it provided I know a few key things about it. With
respect to recumbents, things like weight and price for instance. I do this
with most things in my life. Experience of a thing is vastly overrated. I
can simply gain knowledge of something by pure speculation provided I have a
few key facts to work with. With respect to recumbents, I can just look at
them now and I can tell you whether I am going to like them or not. And I
can also tell whether they are good value or not based on weight and price.
None of this is rocket science except to Varney.

"Price what the market will bear" is fine and dandy but I am predicting
along with Lorenzo that the market is not going to be there for the Bigha.
Why? Because it is too heavy and it is too pricey. It could possibly be too
heavy and still sell if it were priced at around $1000. to $1500., but at
$3000. it is doomed. Thus spake Zarathustra!

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
"Mark Leuck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:EGyyc.14604$eu.6770@attbi_s02...
[...]
> I am not adamant for the bike however unlike you I will not judge it
without
> riding it.

Nope, I can judge something without having to ride it provided I know a few
key facts about it - like weight and price. I also need to see it too of
course, but I do not have to ride it. Every recumbent that I have ever
acquired I have not ridden prior to buying it. And my expectations have
always been dead on. That is because I read RCN and knew what to expect.

Actual riding experience is vastly overrated.

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
This is a fascinating thread to read, and amusing as I find it there are many
questions I find have been left unanswered:

A. Is it a bad thing that there is another company trying to get people onto
bikes?

B. Is it a bad thing that there is one more recumbent bike on the market?

C. Won't a lot of people buy the BigHa, like the ride but decide they want
something lighter/faster/sportier/different and buy other recumbents afterwards?

D. Is Larry Varney related to Michael Varney, well-known physics troll?

E. Is Lorenzo Love related to Fabrizio Mazzoleni?

F. Is Ed Dolan related to George "SPOG" Hammond?
--
"A kilt opens up new possibilities."
- Gary D. Schwartz in rec.backcountry
 
"Mark South" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This is a fascinating thread to read, and amusing as I find it there are
many
> questions I find have been left unanswered:
[...]
> D. Is Larry Varney related to Michael Varney, well-known physics troll?

I think Larry Varney is some kind of troll as he is driving me nuts.

> E. Is Lorenzo Love related to Fabrizio Mazzoleni?

No, Lorenzo is not anything like Fabrizio. They are as different as night
and day. Fab is a light weight. Lorenzo is one hell of a heavy hitter.

> F. Is Ed Dolan related to George "SPOG" Hammond?

I am unique in the whole universe and I am not related to anything known to
mankind. I sit at the right hand of God and am the supreme judge of all
things having to do with ARBR. Everyone knows this!

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
Mark Leuck wrote:
> "Larry Varney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Mark Leuck wrote:
>>
>>>"Larry Varney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>brief ride on a Vision.
>>>> It took all of about 15 minutes to realize that the "facts" were
>>>>wrong, that swb were not "twitchy". At least, not this one. So, maybe
>>>>others weren't either. Shortly after that ride, I bought an Haluzak
>>>>Horizon, followed by a string of several other swb recumbents. And guess
>>>>what? They weren't twitchy at all.
>>>
>>>
>>>Odd because while I didn't find my Vision to be twitchy I did find the
>>>Haluzak was :)
>>>
>>>
>>
>> It's odd how some people have trouble with one bike, but a fairly
>>similar one seems to be OK. I've known people who could handle swb but
>>flopped all over on a lwb, and vice-versa. Which really does emphasize
>>the point that people really need to check out bikes themselves, when at
>>all possible.
>
>
> The twitchy part didn't really bother me, the seat did, when it was reclined
> I could no longer put my feet flat on the ground like I could with the
> Vision. Another odd note is people at my work loved riding the Vision but
> can't seem to get the hang of my Optima Baron, I had no problems at all
> adjusting
>
> Go figure :)
>
>

Yep, I remember the tip-toe requirements of the Horizon. One of the
only times I fell on a recumbent was at a dead stop, with one toe
balanced on: loose gravel. Foot went out, and I went down. Luckily, no
damage to either the bike or me, and no one was around to point and giggle.

--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney
 
Edward Dolan wrote:
> "Larry Varney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Edward Dolan wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>>>As stated above, I read for the overall sense of what is being said. You
>>>should try it sometime yourself. As far as I am concerned, you leave way
>
> too
>
>>>many statements just hanging unconnected to anything. So I have to make
>
> the
>
>>>connections for you. And you never come to a conclusion about anything.
>>>Consequently, many of your posts strike me as being pointless. But I am
>
> very
>
>>>good at completing other's thoughts and coming to conclusions. It is
>
> what I
>
>>>do best in life. If you do not want others doing it for you, then do it
>>>yourself.
>>>
>>>Is Bigha good value or isn't it? That is the question that Lorenzo and I
>>>would like you to answer.
>>>
>>
>> ROTFL! You may "read for the overall sense", and yet you come to
>>completely incorrect conclusions. You claim I am saying something that
>>is not to be found, not in the slightest, in anything I've written. You
>>connect what I have written with things that are only in your mind, and
>>then blame ME for the result. My points are always clear, and I state
>>them, over and over again, in the hopes that perhaps someday someone can
>>help you understand.
>> You do not need to complete my thoughts on this issue, Dolan, nor do
>>you need to come to any other conclusions than this: there are many
>>criteria involved in buying things, including bikes. Some criteria are
>>weighted more, some less, depending solely on the individual. Do you
>>understand, Dolan? Do I need to use different words? Perhaps put it all
>>in some sort of outline?
>
>
> But you do not know how to weigh anything. You think perhaps that the
> quality of the components is the equal of the overall weight of the bike or
> of the price. That is why I regard you as an idiot. Also, criteria never
> depend solely on the individual. There are always universal criteria and if
> the individual does not recognize those universal criteria, well then the
> individual is an idiot - which you prove every time you post.
>
>

Wrong again, Dolan. I do know how to weigh the different criteria. I
just don't take the arrogant stance that *my* subjective weighing is the
only, the correct, the best for everyone. Have I said anything remotely
like the quality of the components being the equal of the overall weight
or the price? Nope, never did - and yet, for *something I never said or
wrote*, you think I'm an idiot. What does that make you, Dolan, for
condeming me for something I never said?
And as for the "universal criteria" - Dolan, what the hell are you
talking about? NO ONE has said there aren't criteria that would apply to
just about everything - remember, I'm the one who keeps pointing out to
you and your friend, that there are more than two to consider - it's the
relative importance of those criteria that matter - to the individual.

>> Maybe if you thought about what I've said, and tried to see if you
>>agreed with me or not, that might help. So let's hear it: do you agree,
>>or disagree, that there are many criteria involved in buying things, and
>>that different people weigh those criteria differently? Yes or no,
>>Dolan. Or do you need me to make it even simpler?
>
>
> I disagree with what you have said above. You have made it way too
> subjective. There are always objective criteria which have nothing to do
> with what any individuals might think because individuals can think wrongly
> due to ignorance or just plain lack of knowledge. I believe that is what
> Lorenzo is saying is that Bigha will not market to recumbent shops and to
> sophisticated recumbent buyers. Instead they are catering to ignoramuses -
> and you are supporting this fiasco by defending Bigha the way you do. But
> you are not fooling me or anyone else here who knows anything about
> recumbents. We know that a recumbent is mainly a frame and wheels and that
> weight and price are important and everything else is Mickey Mouse no matter
> what some "individuals" might think is important.
>
Nonsense. There are no "objective" criteria - and I'll take just one
to illustrate it. How about price? Just what specific dollar figure is
too high? If it were objective, there would be just one number, right?
But there isn't - it's all relative.
And of course individuals can think wrongly, due to ignorance. We see
that all the time - just look at the people who are condeming bikes they
have never seen nor ridden. How much better an illustration of ignorance
can there be?
And off again with that silliness of my "defending" the BiGHA.
There's a term for people like you, and you've been using it quite a bit
in this latest post of yours.
>
>> As for what you and Love want - which, apparently, is for me to
>>decide for you the value of the BiGHA bike - why ask me? Am I the sole
>>arbiter of worth? Do you trust, or need, me to decide whether or not a
>>particular bike is a good value? If I say yes, will you go out and buy
>>one? If I say no, will you not buy one?
>
>
> But are you not a reviewer for Bike Rider Online? It is your duty to advise
> the less knowledgeable if a bike is a good buy or not. If you do not doing
> this very elementary thing, then you are failing in your duty as a reviewer.
> If I were Ball, I would fire you for dereliction of duty.
>
My duty? To advise people about whether or not a bike is a good buy,
*when I have already explained that I haven't ridden it*? Only fools,
morons, idiots and the ignorant do that, Dolan - you should know that.
And no, I am not a reviewer for Bike Rider Online. But if I were, and if
I had reviewed the BiGHA, I would give my opinions as to how it rode,
what it weighed, all of the things that I noticed about it. But
"derelliction of duty" for not giving my evaluation of a bike I've never
ridden - keep it up, Dolan, we all need a good laugh, even at the
expense of the truly stupid.
>
>> You and Love should be able to figure it all by now, Dolan. It's not
>>a difficult conclusion to come to. But, just in case you really do need
>>for me to tell you what to think and what to conclude, here it is:
>> The value of anything, including the BiGHA, is determined by each
>>individual. Each individual should be able to come to a decision as to
>>whether or not it's worth the asking price. This goes for bikes, trikes,
>>horses, cars, hamburgers, you name it.
>
>
> No, we have fundamental disagreement here. There are always universal
> criteria for determining the value for price for any product. I spent many
> hours as a youth reading Consumer's Reports and Consumer's Digest reviews of
> various products. It is not up to the individual to decide these things. It
> is up to honest reviewers who are expert to give the rest of us a clue as
> to what is good value and what is not good value.What does the average
> consumer know about anything when you get right down to it?
>
>
Again, nonsense. It is always up to the individual, because it is the
individual who pays the money and uses the product. You may be more than
willing to put your brain in neutral and let other people do your
thinking for you, but the rest of us are not.

>> Now, if you truly do need me or anyone else to tell you which is a
>>good value in any or all of these items, then you really do have my pity.
>
>
> I would like you to tell me what is good value because you have had an
> opportunity to test ride various recumbents which I can never do. I rely on
> a reviewer for information of all kinds. This is why I have been reading RCN
> all these many years and why I don't bother with Bike Rider Online which I
> understand you are affiliated with. Why should I read your reviews if you
> are not going tell me what is a good buy and what is not a good buy.
>
> If you have test ridden the Bigha, now is the time to tell us if it is a
> good buy or not. Once you have told us that, we will know what to think of
> you as a reviewer.
>

Dolan, when I get a chance to ride a BiGHA - for something more than
a trip around a parking lot, of course - all that would tell anyone is
whether or not the tires are flat - I'll let you know what you should
think. How's that?

--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney
 
Edward Dolan wrote:

>
> Yes I do disagree! The value is not up to the individual. What do
> individuals (the average slob consumer) know about anything anyway except
> what reviewers tell them.

Absolute ****. The value is *always* up to the individual. Only the
truly brain-dead or submissive sheep would ever believe or have it any
other way.
Think for yourself!

--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney
 
Edward Dolan wrote:
> "Mark Leuck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:DDyyc.86123$Ly.38150@attbi_s01...
>
>>"Melinda Meahan - remove TRASH to reply" <[email protected]> wrote in
>>message news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>Larry Varney wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I think it's always dangerous to start figuring that any individual
>>>>knows what is best for any other individual, what they should wear,
>
> what
>
>>>>they should eat, and what they should spend their money on.
>>>> You have judged this particular bike not to be worth the money (a
>
> good
>
>>>>value) - for you. But how can you be so sure that it's not a good
>
> value
>
>>>>for someone else? You know the criteria that you're using to determine
>>>>the "best value", but is it the same as someone else's?
>>>
>>>That's not what I am saying. I am saying that if you spend $3K on that
>>>bike, a lot of what you are buying according to the old marketing ditty,
>>>is "sizzle" and not "steak." Paying a large price for "sizzle" makes
>>>something not a good value. That doesn't mean that some people won't
>>>prefer it.
>>
>>Simple capitalistic principle "Price what the market will bear". Since
>
> none
>
>>of us have ridden the thing we can't really judge if its got a lot of
>
> steak
>
>>or not.
>
>
> I do not think that is true at all. I can judge of something without ever
> having any experience of it provided I know a few key things about it. With
> respect to recumbents, things like weight and price for instance. I do this
> with most things in my life. Experience of a thing is vastly overrated. I
> can simply gain knowledge of something by pure speculation provided I have a
> few key facts to work with. With respect to recumbents, I can just look at
> them now and I can tell you whether I am going to like them or not. And I
> can also tell whether they are good value or not based on weight and price.
> None of this is rocket science except to Varney.
>
> "Price what the market will bear" is fine and dandy but I am predicting
> along with Lorenzo that the market is not going to be there for the Bigha.
> Why? Because it is too heavy and it is too pricey. It could possibly be too
> heavy and still sell if it were priced at around $1000. to $1500., but at
> $3000. it is doomed. Thus spake Zarathustra!
>

OK, let's see a show of hands. How many people are going to trust the
pronouncements of Ed Dolan, who comes to his decisions based not on
actual experiences, but from "speculation"?
And how many of you agree with him that his weighing of the criteria
is the only valid one, that if there is any disagreement, then
automatically everyone but Dolan is wrong?

--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney
 
Lorenzo L. Love wrote:

> I'll try again: Is the Bigha a good value for YOU? If you don't know,
> why are you so worried about people who do have opinions?
>
> Lorenzo L. Love

And I'll try again: I'll let you know once I've ridden it. And other
people's opinions do not have any relationship at all to my not having
ridden a BiGHA, nor with my not having an idea as to the value of it,
for me.


--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney
 
Edward Dolan wrote:
> "Mark Leuck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:u4tyc.1128$Hg2.576@attbi_s04...
>
>>"Lorenzo L. Love" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>Mark Leuck wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Lorenzo L. Love" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Because if you didn't give a fair and impartial review, you wouldn't
>
> be
>
>>>>>working for Consumer Reports for long. Consumer Reports, because they
>>>>>buy the product and are not dependent on the manufacturers for free
>>>>>products, can insist on fair reviews. Who does that for recumbents?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>So what you are saying is anything a reviewer who receives free bikes
>
> is
>
>>>>meaningless?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>Not completely meaningless but you have to take into account that they
>>>can not be too critical or make a no buy recommendation.
>>
>>Sure they can, first off its nearly impossible to find a BAD recumbent so
>>they'd never say "don't buy this bike" anyway. Bicycles aren't that
>
> complex
>
>>of a device and any critical remarks will always be based on the same
>
> things
>
>>such as comfort, tires and mechanical things like shifters or brakes,
>
> I've
>
>>yet to see a review where they weren't critical of any of these
>>
>>Can you name one reviewer that isn't too critical and won't make a no buy
>>recommendation?
>
>
> Actually, Mark, Bob Bryant of RCN has gotten into considerable trouble over
> the years because he has given some slightly bad reviews to various
> recumbent manufacturers. Needless to say, those of us who subscribe to RCN
> have enormous respect for him because of this. I believe he has also lost
> advertising revenue in that some manufacturers (fairly major) will not
> advertise in his magazine or even send him information for listing. I would
> never consider buying any recumbent from such a manufacturer. Mr. Bryant has
> enormous credibility with his readership because of the stands he has taken
> over the years. He is for the consumer, not the manufacturer. How unlike
> Varney he is! Mr. Bryant will tell you what is good value and why. That is
> why his publication is worth every penny of the subscription price.
>

********, Dolan! Get you head out into the air and read what I'm
about to write: I will tell you what I think about a bike, ONCE I'VE
RIDDEN IT! Unliked certain cretins, I do not come to a determination of
the value of a bike, TO ME, until I've done that!
Yes, I realize that you feel that actually experiencing something is
not worth the effort, that a better way of judging a bike is by not
riding it, but merely being told what the price and weight are.
I don't happen to agree with that. And, I would be willing to bet
that Bob Bryant feels the same way. I do not believe he ever wrote a
review or a recommendation of a bike he had never ridden. Anyone who
tells you what a "good value" something is, based solely on ignorance
and prejudice, is someone to avoid.
But they are funny to listen to, so keep up the good work, Dolan and
Love.

--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney
 
On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 01:52:39 -0500, "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>I believe he has also lost
>advertising revenue in that some manufacturers (fairly major) will not
>advertise in his magazine or even send him information for listing. I would
>never consider buying any recumbent from such a manufacturer.

Does he name names of these manufacturers who have retaliated for
unfavorable reviews so that we can join you in never consider buying
from them?
 
Edward Dolan wrote:

> I wonder what it might be like to live in a world where $3000. is chump
> change! Surely someone is exaggerating here slightly?...

Try doing a bike ride in an affluent suburb sometime (e.g., the North
Shore Century from Evanston IL to Kenosha, WI). There you will ride
through neighborhoods where the price is in excess of $1 Million US for
one of the smaller houses and lots. To the people that live there, $3000
is one or two days worth of their income.

Even on a more common scale, $3000 is not that much. I happened to be at
a local high school in one of the more upscale areas. There were less
than 10 cars in the student parking lot worth LESS than mine, and many
of the students drove vehicles worth more than $20,000. If one can waste
that much money on getting a child to school, then $3000 for a bicycle
is not that extreme.

--
Tom Sherman – Quad City Area
 
Edward Dolan wrote:

> "Lorenzo L. Love" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> [...]
>
>>"The poor are like foxes: they need intelligence in order to survive.
>>The rich, however, have power; they don't need good sense."
>> Sheri S. Tepper, Singer from the Sea
>
>
> Lorenzo, you have got the greatest signatures of anyone on this newsgroup. I
> agree with each and every one of them. Where did you ever dig up these
> jewels of wisdom? I hope you don't mind, but I am saving them to My
> Documents (via Notepad) and I may use them myself in the future. Such pearls
> of wisdom should be in all our vocabularies.
>

Not my words, do with them as you will. I find them where I find them,
the Tepper quote from reading her novel. She was referring to hereditary
aristocracy but it applies to anyone with more money then sense.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"A quotation in a speech, article or book is like a rifle in the hands
of an infantryman. It speaks with authority."
Brendan Francis
 
Mark Leuck wrote:
> "Melinda Meahan - remove TRASH to reply" <[email protected]> wrote in
> message news:%[email protected]...
>
>>Mark Leuck wrote:
>>
>>
>>>for a carbon fiber Trek or Cannondale. $3000 is chump change at my area
>
> bike
>
>>>store
>>
>>Wow, if $3000 is chump change at your area bike store, I want to come
>>and catch what people don't bother to pick up that falls out of their
>>pockets.
>
>
> The most expensive bike they carried was $8,000, most obviously weren't that
> high but once you get to the carbon fiber models the price starts to
> skyrocket
>
>

You mean those nice LIGHT high-performance carbon fiber bikes? The very
antithesis of the Bigha.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"If you would know the value of money, go and try to borrow some."
Benjamin Franklin
 
Mark Leuck wrote:
> "Lorenzo L. Love" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>>I have never paid more than a few bucks for a wrist watch either. But
>
> that
>
>>>is because I knew I was buying a time piece and not jewelry.
>>>
>>
>>There you have the real reason many of these people can't understand
>>that the Bigha is so overpriced. $3000 just isn't much money to them so
>>other criteria are more important. Like what color it is. The perfect
>>Bigha customer.
>
>
> So whats the problem then? BigHa isn't marketing to the recumbent crowd, my
> guess is because the recumbent crowd is way too small to market to anyway
> witnessing the demise of several manufacturers in the last few years who
> DID.
>
>
>

The recumbent crowd is way too informed to buy Bighas. The size of the
market isn't that relevant to the demise of companies like BikeE and
Vision. BikeE was the biggest seller and Vision one of the bigger ones.
They collapsed because of fiscal mismanagement and incompetence. It was
when BikeE tried to grow too fast and expand beyond the niche market
that they got overextended. Quality control shortcuts to increase
product turnout resulted in safety recalls and bad press. Greed done
them in. Much smaller companies who know how to properly run a business
and know their customer base are doing fine.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell."
Edward Abbey
 
Larry Varney wrote:
> Edward Dolan wrote:
>
>>
>> Yes I do disagree! The value is not up to the individual. What do
>> individuals (the average slob consumer) know about anything anyway except
>> what reviewers tell them.
>
>
> Absolute ****. The value is *always* up to the individual. Only the
> truly brain-dead or submissive sheep would ever believe or have it any
> other way.
> Think for yourself!
>

So when individuals express their opinion of the poor value of the
Bigha, why do you get so defensive?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
 
Larry Varney wrote:
> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>
>> I'll try again: Is the Bigha a good value for YOU? If you don't know,
>> why are you so worried about people who do have opinions?
>>
>> Lorenzo L. Love
>
>
> And I'll try again: I'll let you know once I've ridden it. And other
> people's opinions do not have any relationship at all to my not having
> ridden a BiGHA, nor with my not having an idea as to the value of it,
> for me.
>
>

So why are you so invested in running down other people opinion of it's
poor value? Thirty some posts of telling people their opinions are
useless. Why so defensive of Bigha?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"Freedom rings where opinions clash."
Adlai E. Stevenson
 
Larry Varney wrote:
> Edward Dolan wrote:
>
>> "Mark Leuck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:u4tyc.1128$Hg2.576@attbi_s04...
>>
>>> "Lorenzo L. Love" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>> Mark Leuck wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Lorenzo L. Love" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Because if you didn't give a fair and impartial review, you wouldn't
>>
>>
>> be
>>
>>>>>> working for Consumer Reports for long. Consumer Reports, because they
>>>>>> buy the product and are not dependent on the manufacturers for free
>>>>>> products, can insist on fair reviews. Who does that for recumbents?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So what you are saying is anything a reviewer who receives free bikes
>>
>>
>> is
>>
>>>>> meaningless?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Not completely meaningless but you have to take into account that they
>>>> can not be too critical or make a no buy recommendation.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sure they can, first off its nearly impossible to find a BAD
>>> recumbent so
>>> they'd never say "don't buy this bike" anyway. Bicycles aren't that
>>
>>
>> complex
>>
>>> of a device and any critical remarks will always be based on the same
>>
>>
>> things
>>
>>> such as comfort, tires and mechanical things like shifters or brakes,
>>
>>
>> I've
>>
>>> yet to see a review where they weren't critical of any of these
>>>
>>> Can you name one reviewer that isn't too critical and won't make a no
>>> buy
>>> recommendation?
>>
>>
>>
>> Actually, Mark, Bob Bryant of RCN has gotten into considerable trouble
>> over
>> the years because he has given some slightly bad reviews to various
>> recumbent manufacturers. Needless to say, those of us who subscribe to
>> RCN
>> have enormous respect for him because of this. I believe he has also lost
>> advertising revenue in that some manufacturers (fairly major) will not
>> advertise in his magazine or even send him information for listing. I
>> would
>> never consider buying any recumbent from such a manufacturer. Mr.
>> Bryant has
>> enormous credibility with his readership because of the stands he has
>> taken
>> over the years. He is for the consumer, not the manufacturer. How unlike
>> Varney he is! Mr. Bryant will tell you what is good value and why.
>> That is
>> why his publication is worth every penny of the subscription price.
>>
>
> ********, Dolan! Get you head out into the air and read what I'm about
> to write: I will tell you what I think about a bike, ONCE I'VE RIDDEN
> IT! Unliked certain cretins, I do not come to a determination of the
> value of a bike, TO ME, until I've done that!
> Yes, I realize that you feel that actually experiencing something is
> not worth the effort, that a better way of judging a bike is by not
> riding it, but merely being told what the price and weight are.
> I don't happen to agree with that. And, I would be willing to bet that
> Bob Bryant feels the same way. I do not believe he ever wrote a review
> or a recommendation of a bike he had never ridden. Anyone who tells you
> what a "good value" something is, based solely on ignorance and
> prejudice, is someone to avoid.
> But they are funny to listen to, so keep up the good work, Dolan and
> Love.
>

Since Bigha won't or can't market through bicycle dealers, because
dealers won't or can't trust these people after their BikeE fiasco,
there doesn't seem to be much opportunity to test ride a Bigha. For most
of us, all we will know about the Bigha is what we see on their website.
50 lbs and $3000.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"There was a time when a fool and his money were soon parted, but now it
happens to everybody."
Adlai E. Stevenson
 
Tom Sherman wrote:

> Edward Dolan wrote:
>
>> I wonder what it might be like to live in a world where $3000. is chump
>> change! Surely someone is exaggerating here slightly?...
>
>
> Try doing a bike ride in an affluent suburb sometime (e.g., the North
> Shore Century from Evanston IL to Kenosha, WI). There you will ride
> through neighborhoods where the price is in excess of $1 Million US for
> one of the smaller houses and lots. To the people that live there, $3000
> is one or two days worth of their income.
>
> Even on a more common scale, $3000 is not that much. I happened to be at
> a local high school in one of the more upscale areas. There were less
> than 10 cars in the student parking lot worth LESS than mine, and many
> of the students drove vehicles worth more than $20,000. If one can waste
> that much money on getting a child to school, then $3000 for a bicycle
> is not that extreme.
>

Yes, status symbols are very important to some people. The more it
costs, the more status it has. The Bigha may have status but that is not
synonymous with value.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"There was a time when a fool and his money were soon parted, but now it
happens to everybody."
Adlai E. Stevenson
 
> > >>>Idiot, imbecile, moron, fool, something in that general family. If
> > >>>anyone paid $3000 for a Bigha, it just shows that you are not alone.
> > >>>Since Bigha is targeting as their customers people who know next to
> > >>>nothing about bicycling in general and incumbents in particular, it's
> > >>>not surprising that they can find someone with more money then sense.
> > >>>
> > >>>Lorenzo L. Love
> > >>>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

It takes one to know one! You are still in denial that BiGHa is
selling bikes and to informed customers. If these customers were
"imbeciles, morons or fools" they wouldn't be in a position in life
where they could afford to buy a $3000 bicycle. Duhhh! Trust me that
most folks would have looked and ridden other bikes before dropping
$3K on an online purchase. You seem to underestimate other people but
yourself. How laughable!!!

What would you say about Schwinn and Columbia when they reissued
"copies" of some of their classic cruisers for $3,500 that weigh more
than 60 lbs. and have far less utility and performance than a BiGHa?
Would those people that bought them be classified as "imbeciles,
morons or fools"? Or are they true enthusiasts who appreciate the
finer things in life?

You need to look inside of yourself why you're so obsessed with the
BiGHa and it's not price or weight! Perhaps the wrong decisions were
made and you attack anything that has to do with success.

Just my 2 cents for what it's worth.

EW
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

J
has anyone tried the schlumpf mountain/speed/high-speed crank drive?
Replies
8
Views
2K
Recumbent bicycles
Jon Bendtsen
J
N
So Has Anyone Tried Out Huffy's Recumbent Bicycle?
Replies
1
Views
767
Recumbent bicycles
Ken C. M.
K
bikegirl1958
Has anyone tried a ROWBIKE?
Replies
4
Views
4K
Recumbent bicycles
fsiebold
fsiebold
S
Has anyone tried the Bigha?
Replies
265
Views
15K
Recumbent bicycles
William Higley
W
B
  • Locked
has anyone tried out the P.E.T trike?
Replies
4
Views
1K
Recumbent bicycles
Christopher Jor
C
Top Bottom Back