Has anyone tried the Bigha?



"Lorenzo L. Love" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >
> > This may be hard for you to believe but not everyone who
> > rides a
recumbent
> > reads or even knows about this newsgroup
>
> No, but it's a large sample of the more experienced and
> knowledgeable recumbent riders. Anyone bought a Bigha?

Its not even that, we have maybe 40-50 active posters (if
that) in a market of about 15,000 to 20,000 bikes (my guess)

Anyone bought one of these?

http://www.go-one.de/ukindex.shtml

If not then it must be garbage that no recumbent rider would
get if we use your logic

> >
> > I've already answered your questions however it appears
> > you stopped listening long ago
> >
> >
> >
>
> Did you? I must have missed that. Please tell us again why
> are you are so fanatically defending this bike you
> acknowledge is heavy and expensive and which you would
> never buy?

You didn't miss my answer at all, you chose to ignore it,
why are you so fanatically opposed to this bike?
 
Mark Leuck wrote:

> "Lorenzo L. Love" <[email protected]> wrote in
> message news:[email protected]
> rthlink.net...
>
>>>This may be hard for you to believe but not everyone who
>>>rides a
>
> recumbent
>
>>>reads or even knows about this newsgroup
>>
>>No, but it's a large sample of the more experienced and
>>knowledgeable recumbent riders. Anyone bought a Bigha?
>
>
> Its not even that, we have maybe 40-50 active posters
> (if that) in a market of about 15,000 to 20,000 bikes
> (my guess)
>
> Anyone bought one of these?
>
> http://www.go-one.de/ukindex.shtml
>
> If not then it must be garbage that no recumbent rider
> would get if we use your logic

At $11,500 and only sold in Germany, I'm not surprised no
one in this mostly U.S. group has bought one. Couldn't you
find anything more expensive or more obscure? Really
grasping at straws aren't you?

>
>
>>>I've already answered your questions however it appears
>>>you stopped listening long ago
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Did you? I must have missed that. Please tell us again why
>>are you are so fanatically defending this bike you
>>acknowledge is heavy and expensive and which you would
>>never buy?
>
>
> You didn't miss my answer at all, you chose to ignore it,
> why are you so fanatically opposed to this bike?
>
>

It costs way too much for a heavy comfort bike. See, simple
answer. Now where is your answer? Why are you are so
fanatically defending this bike you acknowledge is heavy and
expensive and which you would never buy?

Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"If you do not tell the truth about yourself you cannot tell
it about other people." Virginia Woolf (1882-1941).
 
Mark Leuck wrote:

> ... Anyone bought one of these?
>
> http://www.go-one.de/ukindex.shtml ...

If they reduce the weight of the go-one^3 to 50 pounds and
the price to $3000 US (to match the BigHa), I will buy one.

--
Tom Sherman – Quad City Area
 
Tom Sherman wrote:
> Mark Leuck wrote:
>
>> ... Anyone bought one of these?
>>
>> http://www.go-one.de/ukindex.shtml ...
>
>
> If they reduce the weight of the go-one^3 to 50 pounds
> and the price to $3000 US (to match the BigHa), I will
> buy one.
>

Even at 70 lbs, a carbon fiber monocoque velomobile would be
a pretty good deal at $3000 USD. At $11,500 USD plus inport
duty, I don't think so.

Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"There was a time when a fool and his money were soon
parted, but now it happens to everybody." Adlai E. Stevenson
 
>I wish I could be that naive and foolish.

Dolan...your are and then some.
 
"Edward Wong" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >I wish I could be that naive and foolish.
>
> Dolan...your are and then some.

No response is possible when the issues I raised are not
addressed. But then I believe that just about says it
all. Wong merely wants to get a word in edgewise. But
Wong is Wrong! Or Wrong is Wong! But he at least has a
good first name.

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
"Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "Edward Wong" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > >I wish I could be that naive and foolish.
> >
> > Dolan...your are and then some.
>
> No response is possible when the issues I raised are not
> addressed. But then I believe that just about says it
> all. Wong merely wants to get a word in edgewise. But
> Wong is Wrong! Or Wrong is Wong! But he at least has a
> good first name.

Ed I think you're OK (sometimes). I don't care what they say
about you or what you've even said of yourself in the past;-
) I tend to believe that if it were possible for all of us
to get together at a really great biking locality, our
differences would instantly melt away and we would all
happily ride our recumbents as a group into the sunset;-)

Edward Wong Orlando, FL

BiGHa related content: According to their website, you can
now finance the purchase of a BiGHa interest free until
August 1, 2004. Now there are two lower cost versions of the
bike without the electonics.

Disclaimer: I have no vested interest in the company. Just
thought someone might be interested.
 
"Edward Wong" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > "Edward Wong" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > >I wish I could be that naive and foolish.
> > >
> > > Dolan...your are and then some.
> >
> > No response is possible when the issues I raised are not
> > addressed. But
then
> > I believe that just about says it all. Wong merely wants
> > to get a word
in
> > edgewise. But Wong is Wrong! Or Wrong is Wong! But he at
> > least has a
good
> > first name.
>
> Ed I think you're OK (sometimes). I don't care what they
> say about you or what you've even said of yourself in the
> past;-) I tend to believe that if it were possible for all
> of us to get together at a really great biking locality,
> our differences would instantly melt away and we would all
> happily ride our recumbents as a group into the sunset;-)
>
> Edward Wong Orlando, FL

I was all set to take on yet another adversary, but Mr.Wong
has totally disarmed me by his gracious post. I can't
understand why the rest of you aren't able to see me like
Mr.Wong as the big purring ***** cat that I am.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
"Edward Wong" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > "Edward Wong" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > >I wish I could be that naive and foolish.
> > >
> > > Dolan...your are and then some.
> >
> > No response is possible when the issues I raised are not
> > addressed. But
then
> > I believe that just about says it all. Wong merely wants
> > to get a word
in
> > edgewise. But Wong is Wrong! Or Wrong is Wong! But he at
> > least has a
good
> > first name.
>
> Ed I think you're OK (sometimes). I don't care what they
> say about you or what you've even said of yourself in the
> past;-) I tend to believe that if it were possible for all
> of us to get together at a really great biking locality,
> our differences would instantly melt away and we would all
> happily ride our recumbents as a group into the sunset;-)
>
> Edward Wong Orlando, FL

That is almost always the case, most people are different
behind the keyboard than in real life (including me)

> BiGHa related content: According to their website, you can
> now finance the purchase of a BiGHa interest free until
> August 1, 2004. Now there are two lower cost versions of
> the bike without the electonics.
>
> Disclaimer: I have no vested interest in the company. Just
> thought someone might be interested.

Lorenzo will still accuse you of being associated with BigHa
:)
 
"Mark Leuck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:ZoaBc.79946$0y.74168@attbi_s03...
>
> "Edward Wong" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
[...]
> > Ed I think you're OK (sometimes). I don't care what they
> > say about you or what you've even said of yourself in
> > the past;-) I tend to believe that if it were possible
> > for all of us to get together at a really great biking
> > locality, our differences would instantly melt away and
> > we would all happily ride our recumbents as a group into
> > the sunset;-)
> >
> > Edward Wong Orlando, FL
>
> That is almost always the case, most people are different
> behind the keyboard than in real life (including me)

I have been puzzling about this phenomenon for sometime
myself. I think it is because we cannot present ourselves
in our totality (as we could in real life) behind the
keyboard, but only a single aspect of ourselves due to the
limited nature of the short narrowly focused messages we
are sending to one another. The one thing we value most in
our lives is our own ego (individuality), and so that
aspect of ourselves gets presented out of all proportion to
everything else. I must admit when I am occasionally
rereading some of my messages that I have posted to the
newsgroup, I don't recognize myself. I am thinking all the
time - did I really say that?

When I send someone an email it is more like an old fashion
letter and I note I am altogether a more whole person than I
am on Usenet. So I don't think it is just the keyboard
itself that is the cause of it, but rather the nature of the
kind of messages that we are writing on Usenet. In real life
and in our letters we want to come across as whole persons;
on Usenet we are not concerned with that because we are
narrowly focused on just a single issue and it takes all our
energy and effort to make our points without getting into
very extended much longer messages. None of us are at our
best on Usenet.

I am playing the most dangerous game of all because I do not
care about staying on-topic and I am into opinion more than
I am into facts. Usenet does work best for strictly on-topic
type of messages as that allows for only a bit of ego
(provided we stick to the facts). But all bets are off when
we get off-topic and into the universe of opinion as opposed
to the universe of facts. That is why contention always
surrounds me on ARBR, and it never surrounds me in real life
or in my more civilized letters. ARBR has been a real eye
opener for me I must admit. I think maybe if I tone down my
messages somewhat it might be better all around.

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
> Larry Varney wrote:
>
>> Edward Dolan wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Yes I do disagree! The value is not up to the
>>> individual. What do individuals (the average slob
>>> consumer) know about anything anyway except what
>>> reviewers tell them.
>>
>>
>>
>> Absolute ****. The value is *always* up to the
>> individual. Only the truly brain-dead or submissive sheep
>> would ever believe or have it any other way. Think for
>> yourself!
>>
>
> So when individuals express their opinion of the poor
> value of the Bigha, why do you get so defensive?
>
> Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
>

I don't. I have never defended the BiGHA. Read what I
write.

--
Larry Varney Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney
 
Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
> Larry Varney wrote:
>
>> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>>
>>> I'll try again: Is the Bigha a good value for YOU? If
>>> you don't know, why are you so worried about people who
>>> do have opinions?
>>>
>>> Lorenzo L. Love
>>
>>
>>
>> And I'll try again: I'll let you know once I've ridden
>> it. And other people's opinions do not have any
>> relationship at all to my not having ridden a BiGHA,
>> nor with my not having an idea as to the value of it,
>> for me.
>>
>>
>
> So why are you so invested in running down other people
> opinion of it's poor value? Thirty some posts of
> telling people their opinions are useless. Why so
> defensive of Bigha?
>
> Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> "Freedom rings where opinions clash." Adlai E. Stevenson
>

Never have defended the BiGHA, Love. Never have been
"defensive" of
it. And as for "running down other people opinion of it's
poor value" - read what I write. I have pointed out,
time and again, that there are many criteria to a
purchase, and that weight and price are not the only two
that should or could be considered. As to those whose
opinions are worthless - I never have said that. I have
pointed out that the opinions of those who have never
seen, much less ridden, any bike, including the BiGHA,
should be considered for what they are - examples of
ignorance trying to pass themselves off as something
much higher.

--
Larry Varney Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney
 
Edward Dolan wrote:
> "Mark Leuck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:6oRyc.41501$Sw.22104@attbi_s51... [...]
>
>>Ed is a fool and I suggest putting him on ignore like I
>>did ages ago, besides for some reason I doubt he picked
>>his last car or the house he
>
> lives
>
>>in based only on price and weight :)
>
>
> Leuck is an even bigger fool because he never knows what
> he is talking about. Lorenzo has shown him up over an over
> again, yet he goes on and on. He can't answer the simplest
> of questions. All he knows how to do is to obfuscate and
> this sort of thing only fools other fools like Varney -
> who never has a clue about anything. Leuck and Varney are
> two of a kind. They both think not only a $3000. bike that
> weighs 50 pounds is OK, but this extreme fool Leuck would
> even pay $8000. for a carbon fiber type of bike. Varney no
> doubt would chime in that an $8000. bike should be
> considered because there are considerations other than
> price that might somehow justify it. If ever there was a
> case of anyone having more money than brains ... I give
> you Leuck and Varney.
>
> But here we have another classic case of a kill filer who
> is contributing to a thread of which I am also a major
> contributor and he is not reading my messages. Now you see
> why I have nothing but contempt for these types of
> scoundrels. I shall reserve a special venom for this
> asshole Leuck now that I know he has kill filed me and yet
> feels free to comment on me - based on what? Bits and
> pieces of other's posts. Not good enough! Varney is at
> least in the ball game as far as I am concerned, but this
> asshole Leuck is most definitely not.
>

I have never said that $3000 for a bike that weighs 50
pounds is OK. Never have. Read what I write, Dolan.

--
Larry Varney Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney
 
Edward Dolan wrote:
> "Larry Varney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Edward Dolan wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>>>Actually, Mark, Bob Bryant of RCN has gotten into
>>>considerable trouble
>
> over
>
>>>the years because he has given some slightly bad reviews
>>>to various recumbent manufacturers. Needless to say,
>>>those of us who subscribe to
>
> RCN
>
>>>have enormous respect for him because of this. I believe
>>>he has also
>
> lost
>
>>>advertising revenue in that some manufacturers (fairly
>>>major) will not advertise in his magazine or even send
>>>him information for listing. I
>
> would
>
>>>never consider buying any recumbent from such a
>>>manufacturer. Mr. Bryant
>
> has
>
>>>enormous credibility with his readership because of the
>>>stands he has
>
> taken
>
>>>over the years. He is for the consumer, not the
>>>manufacturer. How unlike Varney he is! Mr. Bryant will
>>>tell you what is good value and why. That
>
> is
>
>>>why his publication is worth every penny of the
>>>subscription price.
>>>
>>
>> ********, Dolan! Get you head out into the air and read
>> what I'm about to write: I will tell you what I think
>> about a bike, ONCE I'VE RIDDEN IT! Unliked certain
>> cretins, I do not come to a determination of the value
>> of a bike, TO ME, until I've done that! Yes, I realize
>> that you feel that actually experiencing something is
>> not worth the effort, that a better way of judging a
>> bike is by not riding it, but merely being told what
>> the price and weight are. I don't happen to agree with
>> that. And, I would be willing to bet that Bob Bryant
>> feels the same way. I do not believe he ever wrote a
>> review or a recommendation of a bike he had never
>> ridden. Anyone who tells you what a "good value"
>> something is, based solely on ignorance and prejudice,
>> is someone to avoid. But they are funny to listen to,
>> so keep up the good work, Dolan and Love.
>
>
> I was under the impression that Varney had ridden the
> Bigha and that he was recommending it because there were
> considerations other than weight and price which might
> make it a good value for some individuals. Well, if he has
> never ridden it and he is not recommending it, then I do
> not know what all these posts on this thread are about. I
> have already stated previously that weight and price are
> the MOST important considerations, but not the ONLY
> considerations. I think that is what he is saying also.
>

Read what I write, Dolan. I have said, over and over and
over, that I have never ridden the BiGHA, and that's why
I don't tell people if it's a good value or not. I have
never recommended it, I have never condemned it, I have
never made 'value' statements about it at all. If you
don't know what I've written previously, if you don't
know what these posts have been about, then you probably
won't understand this one, either.

--
Larry Varney Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney
 
Larry Varney wrote:
> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>
>> Larry Varney wrote:
>>
>>> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'll try again: Is the Bigha a good value for YOU? If
>>>> you don't know, why are you so worried about people who
>>>> do have opinions?
>>>>
>>>> Lorenzo L. Love
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And I'll try again: I'll let you know once I've ridden
>>> it. And other people's opinions do not have any
>>> relationship at all to my not having ridden a BiGHA,
>>> nor with my not having an idea as to the value of it,
>>> for me.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> So why are you so invested in running down other people
>> opinion of it's poor value? Thirty some posts of
>> telling people their opinions are useless. Why so
>> defensive of Bigha?
>>
>> Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>
>> "Freedom rings where opinions clash." Adlai E. Stevenson
>>
>
> Never have defended the BiGHA, Love. Never have been
> "defensive" of
> it. And as for "running down other people opinion of it's
> poor value" - read what I write. I have pointed out,
> time and again, that there are many criteria to a
> purchase, and that weight and price are not the only
> two that should or could be considered. As to those
> whose opinions are worthless - I never have said that.
> I have pointed out that the opinions of those who have
> never seen, much less ridden, any bike, including the
> BiGHA, should be considered for what they are -
> examples of ignorance trying to pass themselves off as
> something much higher.
>

So how much does Bigha pay to be a sponsor for your
online magazine?

Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Thirst makes any wine drinkable And greed makes any crime
thinkable.
 
Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
> Hashim El Amin wrote:
>
>>> Because if you didn't give a fair and impartial review,
>>> you wouldn't be working for Consumer Reports for long.
>>> Consumer Reports, because they buy the product and are
>>> not dependent on the manufacturers for free products,
>>> can insist on fair reviews. Who does that for
>>> recumbents?
>>>
>>> Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>>
>>> Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
>>
>>
>>
>> If your publication does not give fair or impartial
>> reviews on any product, the market will reject you and
>> you'll soon be out of business. Do you think Ebert pays
>> to see all the movies he reviews? No, but he still sticks
>> his thumb down at some of them.
>>
>> IMO, all reviews must be taken with a grain of salt.
>> Surely, the company is out to impress the reviewer,
>> giving them special service and attention. Then you have
>> to take into account the reviewer is not exactly like you
>> and may not have your same preferences (unless you're a
>> follower like Ed Dolan). Finally and perhaps most
>> importantly, a review is only a snapshot of the ownership
>> experience. I don't want to know what happened with the
>> Bigha in the first day or week of riding, I want to know
>> what happens 1 year and 5 years down the road. Will it
>> fall apart? Will I still enjoy riding it? No review will
>> ever answer these questions.
>>
>> I think you are too critical of Bentrider Online. If they
>> make a profit at all, its got to be tiny. They're not
>> getting rich off of it so they only do it for the love of
>> recumbency. I could be wrong, but my assumption has
>> always been that Varney contributes on a voluntary basis
>> only. For God's sake, they opened up a donation wire so
>> people could give money to help keep things going!
>>
>> If they give overly-positive reviews it's certainly got
>> nothing to do with financial reasons.
>
>
> There are over 30 sponsors listed on their homepage, one
> of which is Bigha. I've no idea how much they charge for
> sponsorship but there is obviously a financial
> relationship. This is true for most product related
> magazines. Magazines like Consumer Reports who are
> independent of sponsorship/advertisement revenue are rare.
> Varney is not just a contributor, he's an editor. You're
> right, all reviews must be taken with a grain of salt,
> sometimes a bigger grain then others. But Varney didn't
> review the Bigha, he says he never rode it, yet he is an
> staunch defender of it. A staunch defender of a sponsor.
> Draw your own conclusions.
>
> Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> Thirst makes any wine drinkable And greed makes any crime
> thinkable.
>

I have never defended the BiGHA. Never. And yet Lorenzo
Love continues to lie. Draw your own conclusions.

--
Larry Varney Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney
 
"Larry Varney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:p[email protected]... [...]
> As to those whose opinions are worthless - I never have
> said that. I have pointed out that the opinions of
> those who have never seen, much less ridden, any bike,
> including the BiGHA, should be considered for what they
> are - examples of ignorance trying to pass themselves
> off as something much higher.

Mr. Varney, there are experts on all conceivable subjects
who have no first hand experience of their subjects. It
is all based on the reports of others. Most scholarship
and teaching falls into this category. Those of us who
have had experience riding recumbents are quite
qualified to make an assessment of a new recumbent based
on our past experience with other recumbents. We do not
have to have first hand experience. We do not have to
ride the bike.

Why the belated posts on this particular subject thread.
Been on vacation doing a bike ride?

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
Larry Varney wrote:
> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>
>> Hashim El Amin wrote:
>>
>>>> Because if you didn't give a fair and impartial review,
>>>> you wouldn't be working for Consumer Reports for long.
>>>> Consumer Reports, because they buy the product and are
>>>> not dependent on the manufacturers for free products,
>>>> can insist on fair reviews. Who does that for
>>>> recumbents?
>>>>
>>>> Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>>>
>>>> Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If your publication does not give fair or impartial
>>> reviews on any product, the market will reject you and
>>> you'll soon be out of business. Do you think Ebert pays
>>> to see all the movies he reviews? No, but he still
>>> sticks his thumb down at some of them.
>>>
>>> IMO, all reviews must be taken with a grain of salt.
>>> Surely, the company is out to impress the reviewer,
>>> giving them special service and attention. Then you have
>>> to take into account the reviewer is not exactly like
>>> you and may not have your same preferences (unless
>>> you're a follower like Ed Dolan). Finally and perhaps
>>> most importantly, a review is only a snapshot of the
>>> ownership experience. I don't want to know what happened
>>> with the Bigha in the first day or week of riding, I
>>> want to know what happens 1 year and 5 years down the
>>> road. Will it fall apart? Will I still enjoy riding it?
>>> No review will ever answer these questions.
>>>
>>> I think you are too critical of Bentrider Online. If
>>> they make a profit at all, its got to be tiny. They're
>>> not getting rich off of it so they only do it for the
>>> love of recumbency. I could be wrong, but my assumption
>>> has always been that Varney contributes on a voluntary
>>> basis only. For God's sake, they opened up a donation
>>> wire so people could give money to help keep things
>>> going!
>>>
>>> If they give overly-positive reviews it's certainly got
>>> nothing to do with financial reasons.
>>
>>
>>
>> There are over 30 sponsors listed on their homepage, one
>> of which is Bigha. I've no idea how much they charge for
>> sponsorship but there is obviously a financial
>> relationship. This is true for most product related
>> magazines. Magazines like Consumer Reports who are
>> independent of sponsorship/advertisement revenue are
>> rare. Varney is not just a contributor, he's an editor.
>> You're right, all reviews must be taken with a grain of
>> salt, sometimes a bigger grain then others. But Varney
>> didn't review the Bigha, he says he never rode it, yet he
>> is an staunch defender of it. A staunch defender of a
>> sponsor. Draw your own conclusions.
>>
>> Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>
>> Thirst makes any wine drinkable And greed makes any crime
>> thinkable.
>>
>
> I have never defended the BiGHA. Never. And yet Lorenzo
> Love continues to lie. Draw your own conclusions.
>

How much does Bigha pay to be a sponsor on your online
magazine?

Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"If you do not tell the truth about yourself you cannot tell
it about other people." Virginia Woolf (1882-1941).
 
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