OT: political leanings are half genetic

[Bill Sornson]

Edward Dolan wrote:
> "John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On Thu, 31 May 2007 16:31:30 -0500, "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I do not like to see the military lounging about in their barracks.
>>> I would
>>> rather see them gainfully employed kicking ass in the world. It
>>> would not bother me in the slightest if we had to stay in Iraq for
>>> the next hundred years. Better there than lounging about in camps
>>> in the US. We are nation of 300 million and a superpower and we can do
>>> anything we want
>>> to in the world. It is simply a matter of will.
>>
>> You are really sick.
>
> It only seems like that to you because you are illiterate in history.
> I can give you a reading list if you would like. But far better than
> a reading list would be a college education in the liberal arts,
> provided of course that the g.d. college was not a snake pit of
> liberals.

Have him read some Raymond S. Kraft. LOL

 

[Bill Sornson]

Edward Dolan wrote:
> "John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On Thu, 31 May 2007 15:48:50 -0700, "Bill Sornson" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> (Never mind that Saddam slaughtered far more
>>> civilians each year than even today's sectarian violence is taking.
>>
>> This is not true (unless you are saying a year under Saddam resulted
>> in more deaths than a day in Iraq today.)
>>
>> I'm not putting a numeric value on the overall impact of his
>> dictatorship, but in terms of numbers of bodies and insecurity of
>> "typical" Iraqis, the situation today is far worse than under his
>> reign.
>
> That may be true provided you did not mind living the life of a
> slave. No doubt the Sunnis do not have it as good as they did under
> Saddam.
> Forrest (with the 2 r's), you are extremely naive and you have fallen
> for liberal propaganda hook, line and sinker. I blame much of the
> media for your ignorance. The cure for what ails you is to talk to
> some Iraqi vets and get their take on what they think is happening
> over there. After all, they may actually know a thing or two that you
> and I don't.

Saddam killed well over 100,000 Iraqis each year -- not to mention those he
tortured and/or imprisoned. (He also killed a LOT of Iranians.) Many
others starved or died of illnesses.

Then there were the rape rooms...

 

[John Forrest Tomlinson]

On Thu, 31 May 2007 22:25:07 -0500, "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]>
wrote:

> if intelligent and literate people began to use a term or phrase
>wrongly, it soon becomes quite correct.

What does "intelligent" that have to do with you?

--
JT
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[John Forrest Tomlinson]

On Thu, 31 May 2007 22:39:52 -0500, "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Thu, 31 May 2007 16:19:59 -0500, "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>How do you know that worldwide terrorism would not have gone up no matter
>>>what?
>>
>> The war in Iraq is clearly a great recruiting tool for anti-American
>> groups. It foments hatred of our country.
>
>I doubt that. The Jihadists were already hell bent on attacking the US and
>the West, but Chamberlains like you we will always have with us.

Try to open your eyes a bit. There are hundreds of thousands of Iraqs
who are losing jobs, livelihoods, limbs, loved one, etc as a result of
the US invasion. It would be totally normal of them to feel a lot of
antipathy toward the US as a result of that and support action against
the US in the future. Are you suggesting that they (the people we are
supposedly helping) were Jihadists anyway?

A lot will surely become anti-US in the future.

--
JT
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[John Forrest Tomlinson]

On Thu, 31 May 2007 22:55:59 -0500, "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Thu, 31 May 2007 16:31:30 -0500, "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>I do not like to see the military lounging about in their barracks. I
>>>would
>>>rather see them gainfully employed kicking ass in the world. It would not
>>>bother me in the slightest if we had to stay in Iraq for the next hundred
>>>years. Better there than lounging about in camps in the US.
>>>
>>>We are nation of 300 million and a superpower and we can do anything we
>>>want
>>>to in the world. It is simply a matter of will.
>>
>> You are really sick.
>
>It only seems like that to you because you are illiterate in history.

No, people like you are, in aggregate, the greatest threat to American
security around. By far. You're setting the US up for disaster.
George Bush has tried his darnedest to screw us over and people like
you are contributing to it.
--
JT
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[John Forrest Tomlinson]

On Thu, 31 May 2007 23:05:41 -0500, "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Thu, 31 May 2007 15:48:50 -0700, "Bill Sornson" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>(Never mind that Saddam slaughtered far more
>>>civilians each year than even today's sectarian violence is taking.
>>
>> This is not true (unless you are saying a year under Saddam resulted
>> in more deaths than a day in Iraq today.)
>>
>> I'm not putting a numeric value on the overall impact of his
>> dictatorship, but in terms of numbers of bodies and insecurity of
>> "typical" Iraqis, the situation today is far worse than under his
>> reign.
>
>That may be true

It's not "may be true" - it is true.

> provided you did not mind living the life of a slave.


--
JT
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[John Forrest Tomlinson]

On Thu, 31 May 2007 23:18:59 -0700, "Bill Sornson" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Edward Dolan wrote:
>> "John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> On Thu, 31 May 2007 16:31:30 -0500, "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I do not like to see the military lounging about in their barracks.
>>>> I would
>>>> rather see them gainfully employed kicking ass in the world. It
>>>> would not bother me in the slightest if we had to stay in Iraq for
>>>> the next hundred years. Better there than lounging about in camps
>>>> in the US. We are nation of 300 million and a superpower and we can do
>>>> anything we want
>>>> to in the world. It is simply a matter of will.
>>>
>>> You are really sick.
>>
>> It only seems like that to you because you are illiterate in history.
>> I can give you a reading list if you would like. But far better than
>> a reading list would be a college education in the liberal arts,
>> provided of course that the g.d. college was not a snake pit of
>> liberals.
>
>Have him read some Raymond S. Kraft. LOL

Sorni, if you are going to address me specifically you might have the
deceny to do so directly, and actually read my posts. I know that
might hurt your fragile ego, but it's appropriate.

And more to the point, where do you get your news Sorni? Where do you
get your news?
--
JT
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[John Forrest Tomlinson]

On Thu, 31 May 2007 23:22:16 -0700, "Bill Sornson" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Saddam killed well over 100,000 Iraqis each year

That's horrendous but I have to ask: what is the source of that
information?

--
JT
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[Doug Taylor]

On Thu, 31 May 2007 20:51:19 -0500, "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>What started all of this? Some idiot by the name of Ozark posts a comment
>about how conservatives must be genetically deranged. Then every one else
>chips in with their 2-cents worth. If it weren't for me, that is how it
>would eternally go on these freaking cycling newsgroups. You end up thinking
>all cyclists are left of center and Bush haters. Now, we KNOW that is not
>the case - don't we?

Unfortunately, we sure friggin' do. There are a few people with
plenty of neo-con, Jesus Freak, right wing nut case cred who have
posted in cycling newsgroups for YEARS ( more than 10) - Bill
Sornson, Tom Kunich, the dear departed Mark Hickey, et al. - who have
upstaged your self-important johnny-come-lately drivel big time.

 

[still me]

On Fri, 1 Jun 2007 14:57:46 -0500, "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>Rush is a genius, the only in all of talk radio. Even when you disagree with
>him, you have to love the guy for his spirit. I propose that we get together
>and try to convince him to run for President. He would know how to kick
>liberal ass in the world, that is for sure!


I admire his ability to generate money - there's not much more about
him that I find admirable.

He'd certainly shake up the Republican Party - he's the last thing
they'd want to see running (next to Fred Thompson, who is a mega-major
stomach ache for the rest of the guys running).

 

[A Muzi]

>"Bill Sornson" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> Saddam killed well over 100,000 Iraqis each year

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> That's horrendous but I have to ask: what is the source of that
> information?

Not 'news'; This photo for example:
http://www.usaid.gov/iraq/pdf/iraq_mass_graves.pdf
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

 

[[email protected]]

On Jun 1, 3:11 pm, A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote:
> >"Bill Sornson" <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >> Saddam killed well over 100,000 Iraqis each year
> John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> > That's horrendous but I have to ask: what is the source of that
> > information?
>
> Not 'news'; This photo for example:http://www.usaid.gov/iraq/pdf/iraq_mass_graves.pdf

Don't think that's a very quantitative response.

There is no doubt that--primarily before 1991--Hussein killed many of
his own citizens. I've never seen figures anywhere near 100k/year.

Either way: that's old news. What did it ever have to do with our
invasion?

That's rhetorical. It never had anything to do with our invasion. It
was just powerful marketing.

 

[John Forrest Tomlinson]

On Fri, 01 Jun 2007 17:11:39 -0500, A Muzi <[email protected]>
wrote:

>>"Bill Sornson" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>> Saddam killed well over 100,000 Iraqis each year
>
>John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
>> That's horrendous but I have to ask: what is the source of that
>> information?
>
>Not 'news'; This photo for example:
>http://www.usaid.gov/iraq/pdf/iraq_mass_graves.pdf

Wow -- it's up to 400K people in a bit more than 20 years. Clearly
horrendous, but not the 2million Sorni's note made me think. Though
there are undoubtedly others not in the mass graves, so maybe the
figure is close to Sorni's, which would be worse.

--
JT
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[[email protected]]

On Jun 1, 3:55 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> On Jun 1, 3:11 pm, A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > >"Bill Sornson" <[email protected]>
> > > wrote:
> > >> Saddam killed well over 100,000 Iraqis each year
> > John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> > > That's horrendous but I have to ask: what is the source of that
> > > information?
>
> > Not 'news'; This photo for example:http://www.usaid.gov/iraq/pdf/iraq_mass_graves.pdf
>
> Don't think that's a very quantitative response.

Apologies, Andy. I didn't realize there was more beyond the photo.
The rest of my post still stands.

> There is no doubt that--primarily before 1991--Hussein killed many of
> his own citizens. I've never seen figures anywhere near 100k/year.
>
> Either way: that's old news. What did it ever have to do with our
> invasion?
>
> That's rhetorical. It never had anything to do with our invasion. It
> was just powerful marketing.

 

[Tim McNamara]

In article <[email protected]>,
"Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Yea, just what this nation needs - lots of ignorant immigrants who do
> not even have a high school education, who will work for practically
> nothing (a new servant class) and break our social welfare system.

Hmm. Like the Italians, the Irish, the Germans, the Swedes...

 

[Tim McNamara]

In article <[email protected]>,
"Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote:

> A mind is a terrible thing to waste!

Oh, did you have a mind at some point.

 

[Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman]

On Jun 1, 1:22 am, Mr. William Sornson wrote:
> Edward Dolan wrote:
> > John Forrest Tomlinson wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> On Thu, 31 May 2007 15:48:50 -0700, Mr. Willaim Sornson
> >> wrote:
>
> >>> (Never mind that Saddam slaughtered far more
> >>> civilians each year than even today's sectarian violence is taking.
>
> >> This is not true (unless you are saying a year under Saddam resulted
> >> in more deaths than a day in Iraq today.)
>
> >> I'm not putting a numeric value on the overall impact of his
> >> dictatorship, but in terms of numbers of bodies and insecurity of
> >> "typical" Iraqis, the situation today is far worse than under his
> >> reign.
>
> > That may be true provided you did not mind living the life of a
> > slave. No doubt the Sunnis do not have it as good as they did under
> > Saddam.
> > Forrest (with the 2 r's), you are extremely naive and you have fallen
> > for liberal propaganda hook, line and sinker. I blame much of the
> > media for your ignorance. The cure for what ails you is to talk to
> > some Iraqi vets and get their take on what they think is happening
> > over there. After all, they may actually know a thing or two that you
> > and I don't.
>
> Saddam killed well over 100,000 Iraqis each year -- not to mention those he
> tortured and/or imprisoned.

Readers of rec.bicycles.misc, rec.bicycles.tech and
alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent:

Would Mr. Sornson provide a citation? This number (100,000 deaths/
year) is several times the estimate commonly reported by sources that
do not have the agenda of attempting to justify the US conquest of
Iraq.

> (He also killed a LOT of Iranians.)

A proxy war against Iran, fought for the US, with the US and UK
supplying the chemicals and equipment to produce poison gas, and the
satellite data on weather and Iranian troop positions so the gas could
be more effectively used.

To refresh Mr. Sornson's memory, here is the photograph of Donald
Rumsfeld shaking the hand of Saddam Hussein during the Iraq/Iran war:
<http://photo.net/general-comments/attachment/1218210/Rumsfeld
%20Saddam.jpg>.

No wonder they tried Hussein in a mock court and hanged him so
rapidly. A fair trial would have been rather embarrassing for many
member of the Reagan administration.

> Many others starved or died of illnesses.

Partially due to the deliberate targeting of civilian infrastructure,
such as water and wastewater treatment plants by the US in the 1991
Gulf War (a war crime by international standards). This was followed
by the immoral sanctions that only punished innocent Iraqis and the
illegal and immoral decision to bomb Iraq in 1998 by W.J. Clinton.

> Then there were the rape rooms...

Not that any innocent Iraqis have been raped or otherwise sexually
assaulted by occupation forces: <http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/
middle_east/6152118.stm>. I wonder how many potential terrorists will
be motivated by such incidents?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

 

[Bill Sornson]

Tim McNamara wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Yea, just what this nation needs - lots of ignorant immigrants who do
>> not even have a high school education, who will work for practically
>> nothing (a new servant class) and break our social welfare system.
>
> Hmm. Like the Italians, the Irish, the Germans, the Swedes...

Big difference: all those groups tried to assimilate in to US culture and
were profoundly proud to become /Americans/. Not at all true of current
torrent of illegal immigrants.

Go to Mexico and boo the government and see what happens to you.

 

[Bill Sornson]

A Muzi wrote:
>> "Bill Sornson" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>> Saddam killed well over 100,000 Iraqis each year

> John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
>> That's horrendous but I have to ask: what is the source of that
>> information?

> Not 'news'; This photo for example:
> http://www.usaid.gov/iraq/pdf/iraq_mass_graves.pdf

Not just the photo; hope people read the story. (Someone Cc: it to Rosie.)

Thanks for the link, Andrew.

Bill S.

 

[Tim McNamara]

In article <[email protected]>,
"Bill Sornson" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Tim McNamara wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> Yea, just what this nation needs - lots of ignorant immigrants who
> >> do not even have a high school education, who will work for
> >> practically nothing (a new servant class) and break our social
> >> welfare system.
> >
> > Hmm. Like the Italians, the Irish, the Germans, the Swedes...
>
> Big difference: all those groups tried to assimilate in to US
> culture and were profoundly proud to become /Americans/.

Criminy, Bill, you're smoking that crack again. Lots of those folks had
no interest whatsoever in assimilation, remained cloistered in
close-knit communities and dealt only with each other when they could
help it.

> Not at all true of current torrent of illegal immigrants.

Well, it's not like we make it easy for illegal immigrants to
assimilate, eh? We are, after all, trying to round them up, chuck them
out and keep them out. They're here illegally, after all.

There are many times as many legal immigrants as illegal ones. 10% of
American residents are legal immigrants. The vast majority of those
work and pay taxes. You can see what a certain conservative think tank
has to say on the matter:

http://www.cato.org/pubs/policy_report/pr-imnative.html

"Immigrants have practically no negative effect in the labor
market on any person except other immigrants. The effect on wages
is modest by any appraisal, and the effect on unemployment
apparently is zero."

"The most important conclusion that emerges is as follows:
The studies uniformly show that immigrants do not increase the
rate of native unemployment in the aggregate."

> Go to Mexico and boo the government and see what happens to you.

Which has what to do with anything?