OT:The Perfect Political Campaign Button '06



In rec.bicycles.misc di <[email protected]> wrote:
> "John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> Question for Di: Do you think the war in Iraq is going well, or can
>> ever go well?
>
> I don't think it's going as well as it could, but It's not going as bad as
> you are duped into believing, it depends who you talk to if it's going well
> or not. Talk to the soldiers that have been there, it's going pretty well,

You and I are evidently not talking to the same soldiers. The ones I
know vary between resigned to try and finished a totally SNAFU
situation, and ones who think we never should have gone and should get
the heck out. I do know a couple who've gone back as contractors, but
even they don't think the war is a good idea.

> listen to the American Media, it's a disaster. Turn off NBC, ABC, CBS,
> CNN, & New York Times, talk to people, you just may be surprised.

Actually, I get most of my news from places like the BBC and other world
news sources. If anything they paint an even grimmer view.

--
Dane Buson - [email protected]
"I don't see anything wrong with being arrogant and not at all helpful."
-- Paul Tomblin
 
On Fri, 3 Nov 2006 13:27:46 -0800, Dane Buson <[email protected]>
wrote:
\
>Actually, I get most of my news from places like the BBC and other world
>news sources. If anything they paint an even grimmer view.

I found it telling that a poll recently reported on BBC found duh dub
more of a threat to the world than either Kim Jong Il or Mahmoud
Ahmadinejad. GWB came in second behind Osama bin Laden.
--
zk
 
On Fri, 3 Nov 2006 07:32:46 -0600, "di" <[email protected]> wrote:

>I don't think it's going as well as it could, but It's not going as bad as
>you are duped into believing, it depends who you talk to if it's going well
>or not. Talk to the soldiers that have been there, it's going pretty well,

This is a lie. It's either a lie you're making, or a lie someone has
told you.

--
JT
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On 3 Nov 2006 07:15:23 -0800, "damyth" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>di wrote:
>> "John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > On Thu, 2 Nov 2006 21:23:37 -0600, "di" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >>"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >>news:[email protected]...
>> >>> Sorni,
>> >>>
>> >>> If these guys can see through Bushco, how come you can't?
>> >>>
>> >>> http://movies.crooksandliars.com/TSR-SullivanHitchens.wmv
>> >>>
>> >>> Better late than never.
>> >>Wow, from CNN, that must really be unbiased
>> >
>> > Question for Di: Do you think the war in Iraq is going well, or can
>> > ever go well?
>> >
>> > Oh yeah, I forgot -- reality has a liberal bias....
>> > --
>> > JT
>>
>> I don't think it's going as well as it could, but It's not going as bad as
>> you are duped into believing, it depends who you talk to if it's going well
>> or not. Talk to the soldiers that have been there, it's going pretty well,
>> listen to the American Media, it's a disaster. Turn off NBC, ABC, CBS,
>> CNN, & New York Times, talk to people, you just may be surprised.
>
>Who are these people you talk to? Let me remind you that military
>casualties are trending upward, not downward, according to numbers
>released by the Department of Defense. 83 military casualties in
>October set a record for '06. By that metric alone, "Iraq war" and
>"going well" shouldn't even be uttered in the same breath.
>
>I love how die hard right wingnuts always blame the media for "bias."
>That used to be a daily Bush administration complaint. You'll notice
>that the administration no longer use this charge, the gravity and
>reality is finally sinking in. Harping on liberal media bias just
>makes you look like you're further removed from reality, in deep
>denial, and the administration knows the they should not be giving this
>perception right before the election.

The other thing about the bogus "liberal bias" charge on Iraq (and on
a lot of political-economic issues) is that as soon as something says
something that the wingnuts disagree they are called "biased."
Someone can be a former member of the current administration, change
their tune, criticize the current administration and then they are
called biased.

Reality doesn't work that way.

The NYTimes is probably liberal on lifestyle issues. Not far-left,
but liberal. But on war? And the economy? Not at all. Maybe news
stations like CNN and MSNBC are not either, and are perhaps centrist
on social issues (liberal on sex, etc but not on justice issues).

--
JT
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"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 3 Nov 2006 11:29:57 -0600, "di" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> How about talking about the truth and not making stuff up. Who are
> these soldiers that say the war is going well?
> --
> JT

Careful dipshit, you're loosing your cool, you wouldn't know or acknowledge
the truth if you heard it. Your brain has been brainwashed to the point of
no return.
 
On Fri, 03 Nov 2006 16:07:28 GMT, "Bill Sornson" <[email protected]> wrote:

>di wrote:
>> "John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> On Thu, 2 Nov 2006 21:23:37 -0600, "di" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>> Sorni,
>>>>>
>>>>> If these guys can see through Bushco, how come you can't?
>>>>>
>>>>> http://movies.crooksandliars.com/TSR-SullivanHitchens.wmv
>>>>>
>>>>> Better late than never.
>>>> Wow, from CNN, that must really be unbiased
>>>
>>> Question for Di: Do you think the war in Iraq is going well, or can
>>> ever go well?
>>>
>>> Oh yeah, I forgot -- reality has a liberal bias....
>>> --
>>> JT
>>
>> I don't think it's going as well as it could, but It's not going as
>> bad as you are duped into believing, it depends who you talk to if
>> it's going well or not. Talk to the soldiers that have been there,
>> it's going pretty well, listen to the American Media, it's a
>> disaster. Turn off NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, & New York Times, talk to
>> people, you just may be surprised.
>
>Tomlinson's mind is made up, despite overwhelming evidence that the media is
>massively biased (and thus, too, is "reality" as presented to him). Just
>look at the SCHOOLS that are churning out young journalists; ain't no big
>surprise...
>
>http://www.newsroom.ucla.edu/page.asp?RelNum=6664
>
>http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2006/10/25/abc-news-political-direct_n_32471.html

You're an idiot and douche. Besides that simple fact, even if the
source of reporting is fricking Worker's World Daily, if they tell you
something that is true, you should treat it as true and not go "bias,
bias, bias."

Someone tells you something that's true and what do you do -- complain
the person voted for Carter or some nonsense like that.

Uh, I forgot, reality has a liberal bias.


--
JT
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On Fri, 3 Nov 2006 11:29:57 -0600, "di" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Ozark Bicycle" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> damyth wrote:
>>> di wrote:
>>> > "John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> > news:[email protected]...
>>> > > On Thu, 2 Nov 2006 21:23:37 -0600, "di" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > >>
>>> > >>"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> > >>news:[email protected]...
>>> > >>> Sorni,
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> If these guys can see through Bushco, how come you can't?
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> http://movies.crooksandliars.com/TSR-SullivanHitchens.wmv
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Better late than never.
>>> > >>Wow, from CNN, that must really be unbiased
>>> > >
>>> > > Question for Di: Do you think the war in Iraq is going well, or can
>>> > > ever go well?
>>> > >
>>> > > Oh yeah, I forgot -- reality has a liberal bias....
>>> > > --
>>> > > JT
>>> >
>>> > I don't think it's going as well as it could, but It's not going as bad
>>> > as
>>> > you are duped into believing, it depends who you talk to if it's going
>>> > well
>>> > or not. Talk to the soldiers that have been there, it's going pretty
>>> > well,
>>> > listen to the American Media, it's a disaster. Turn off NBC, ABC,
>>> > CBS,
>>> > CNN, & New York Times, talk to people, you just may be surprised.
>>>
>>> Heh, just heard on NPR:
>>> http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6427388
>>
>> NPR?? Who will be the first right wing nutjob to scream "Liberal bias!
>> Liberal Bias!" ?
>>
>> We all know you can only get the real truth from Faux News. ;-)
>
>don't have to claim biased, you just did it for us, Thanks. You're the
>only one to mention Fox, worrying about something?.

How about talking about the truth and not making stuff up. Who are
these soldiers that say the war is going well?
--
JT
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On Fri, 03 Nov 2006 18:07:38 GMT, "Bill Sornson" <[email protected]> wrote:

>di wrote:
>> "Ozark Bicycle" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> message news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> damyth wrote:
>>>> di wrote:
>>>>> "John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email protected]> wrote in
>>>>> message news:[email protected]...
>>>>>> On Thu, 2 Nov 2006 21:23:37 -0600, "di" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email protected]> wrote in
>>>>>>> message news:[email protected]...
>>>>>>>> Sorni,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If these guys can see through Bushco, how come you can't?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://movies.crooksandliars.com/TSR-SullivanHitchens.wmv
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Better late than never.
>>>>>>> Wow, from CNN, that must really be unbiased
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Question for Di: Do you think the war in Iraq is going well, or
>>>>>> can ever go well?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh yeah, I forgot -- reality has a liberal bias....
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> JT
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think it's going as well as it could, but It's not going
>>>>> as bad as
>>>>> you are duped into believing, it depends who you talk to if it's
>>>>> going well
>>>>> or not. Talk to the soldiers that have been there, it's going
>>>>> pretty well,
>>>>> listen to the American Media, it's a disaster. Turn off NBC,
>>>>> ABC, CBS,
>>>>> CNN, & New York Times, talk to people, you just may be surprised.
>>>>
>>>> Heh, just heard on NPR:
>>>> http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6427388
>>>
>>> NPR?? Who will be the first right wing nutjob to scream "Liberal
>>> bias! Liberal Bias!" ?
>>>
>>> We all know you can only get the real truth from Faux News. ;-)
>>
>> don't have to claim biased, you just did it for us, Thanks. You're
>> the only one to mention Fox, worrying about something?.
>
>Well, hell, the NYT is sure unbiased! Read this...and note the references
>to Saddam's ACTIVE (in 2002) nuke programs:
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/03/world/middleeast/03documents.html?_r=1&ref=todayspaper&oref=slogin
>
>Maybe it WAS vital to take him out, after all, just like Kerry and Hillary
>said! LOL

Gosh you're stupid.

Saddam was so dangerous that having plans but no capacity to build
nuclear weapons is worth killing thousands of Americans and tens of
thousands of Iraqis, and yet those plans are not so dangerous that
they can't be put online by the government

The NYTimes tries to be unbiased it's its reporting. If you look at
the history of the Times recently, it has not been anywhere nearly as
agressive as it could be in shooting down the fake information that
led to this war. So how you can argue it's biased doesn't make any
sense.

Oh wait, now you're saying it's not biased since you're twisting a
major US government screw up into validation for the war.

Sorni, the "bias, bias" charge doesn't really work so well when you
pick and choose when to level it.


--
JT
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On Fri, 03 Nov 2006 10:46:12 -0800, "G.T." <[email protected]>
wrote:

>di wrote:
>> "John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> On Thu, 2 Nov 2006 21:23:37 -0600, "di" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>> Sorni,
>>>>>
>>>>> If these guys can see through Bushco, how come you can't?
>>>>>
>>>>> http://movies.crooksandliars.com/TSR-SullivanHitchens.wmv
>>>>>
>>>>> Better late than never.
>>>> Wow, from CNN, that must really be unbiased
>>> Question for Di: Do you think the war in Iraq is going well, or can
>>> ever go well?
>>>
>>> Oh yeah, I forgot -- reality has a liberal bias....
>>> --
>>> JT
>>
>> I don't think it's going as well as it could, but It's not going as bad as
>> you are duped into believing, it depends who you talk to if it's going well
>> or not. Talk to the soldiers that have been there, it's going pretty well,
>
>You're joking, right? Or you haven't talked to any soldiers.

I think it's the latter. Lying actually.
--
JT
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On Fri, 03 Nov 2006 14:21:41 -0800, Zoot Katz <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Fri, 3 Nov 2006 13:27:46 -0800, Dane Buson <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>\
>>Actually, I get most of my news from places like the BBC and other world
>>news sources. If anything they paint an even grimmer view.
>
>I found it telling that a poll recently reported on BBC found duh dub
>more of a threat to the world than either Kim Jong Il or Mahmoud
>Ahmadinejad. GWB came in second behind Osama bin Laden.

"We must remember that we have more power than our enemies to worsen
our fate" -- Ted Galen Carpenter

So who has taken actions that resulted in more Americans dying?

--
JT
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On Fri, 3 Nov 2006 17:21:40 -0600, "di" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Fri, 3 Nov 2006 11:29:57 -0600, "di" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> How about talking about the truth and not making stuff up. Who are
>> these soldiers that say the war is going well?
>> --
>> JT
>
>Careful dipshit, you're loosing your cool, you wouldn't know or acknowledge
>the truth if you heard it. Your brain has been brainwashed to the point of
>no return.

I'm losing my cool because some people are dying while people like you
are lying. So back up your claims or recant.


--
JT
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On Fri, 3 Nov 2006 17:21:40 -0600, "di" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Fri, 3 Nov 2006 11:29:57 -0600, "di" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> How about talking about the truth and not making stuff up. Who are
>> these soldiers that say the war is going well?
>
>Careful dipshit, you're loosing your cool, you wouldn't know or acknowledge
>the truth if you heard it. Your brain has been brainwashed to the point of
>no return.

Interesting that rather than responding to my charge, you attack me.
But in fact, the strongest attack on me would be evidence of what you
say. But since it's a lie you can't do that.

Nice. Well done.

--
JT
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On Fri, 03 Nov 2006 18:42:57 -0500, John Forrest Tomlinson
<[email protected]> wrote:

>So who has taken actions that resulted in more Americans dying?

Since March 2003 there have been 2,812 combat deaths in the US
military. That doesn't include accidental deaths and suicides among
military personel. Nor does it include other coalition forces, paid
mercenaries or journalists.

In December 2002 the total deaths from the WTC Attack was revised to
2,792. Not all of those were Americans. The total deaths resulting
from the 911 attacks was 3,030.

I'd say duh dub is out in front by a wide and growing margin.
--
zk
 
"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 3 Nov 2006 17:21:40 -0600, "di" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>>"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>> On Fri, 3 Nov 2006 11:29:57 -0600, "di" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> How about talking about the truth and not making stuff up. Who are
>>> these soldiers that say the war is going well?
>>
>>Careful dipshit, you're loosing your cool, you wouldn't know or
>>acknowledge
>>the truth if you heard it. Your brain has been brainwashed to the point
>>of
>>no return.
>
> Interesting that rather than responding to my charge, you attack me.
> But in fact, the strongest attack on me would be evidence of what you
> say. But since it's a lie you can't do that.
>
> Nice. Well done.
>
> --
> JT
>

Yep, you've lost it. Where do you get the idea I have to do anything you
say. Whatever I said you wouldn't believe, your brainwashed mind is made
up and there's no changing it.
 
On Fri, 3 Nov 2006 18:03:56 -0600, "di" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Fri, 3 Nov 2006 17:21:40 -0600, "di" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>> On Fri, 3 Nov 2006 11:29:57 -0600, "di" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> How about talking about the truth and not making stuff up. Who are
>>>> these soldiers that say the war is going well?
>>>
>>>Careful dipshit, you're loosing your cool, you wouldn't know or
>>>acknowledge
>>>the truth if you heard it. Your brain has been brainwashed to the point
>>>of
>>>no return.
>>
>> Interesting that rather than responding to my charge, you attack me.
>> But in fact, the strongest attack on me would be evidence of what you
>> say. But since it's a lie you can't do that.
>>
>> Nice. Well done.
>>
>
>Yep, you've lost it. Where do you get the idea I have to do anything you
>say. Whatever I said you wouldn't believe, your brainwashed mind is made
>up and there's no changing it.

You don't have to say anything. On the topic we're discussing it's
clear you're lying or mistaken. ( If it was something that was more
open to question, your lack of backup would cast serious doubt on the
truth of what you say.)

Well done. Your wingnut bona fides are confirmed!

--
JT
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Per Bill Sornson:
>why wasn't it "worrisome" when it
>appeared that HIGH gas prices were going to affect the election?

Absolutely: equally worrisome.... It just didn't occur to me at that time.
--
PeteCresswell
 
di wrote:
> Whatever I said you wouldn't believe, your brainwashed mind is made
> up and there's no changing it.

The irony is simply breathtaking.

Bravo!

E.P.
 
Michael Press wrote:
> He organized and put across rapprochement with China.

They knew he was crazy and they were very afraid of him?

> By all reports he did not use his various political
> offices for monetary gain.

He was pretty busy trying to win elections, AIR. And stuff. --D-y
 
damyth wrote:
> di wrote:
>> "Bill Sornson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> Bill Sornson wrote:
>>> For those who don't wish to register if it won't display as is, a
>>> few snippets:
>>> "Among the dozens of documents in English were Iraqi reports
>>> written in the 1990s and in 2002 for United Nations inspectors in
>>> charge of making sure Iraq had abandoned its unconventional arms
>>> programs after the Persian Gulf war. Experts say that at the time,
>>> Mr. Hussein's scientists were on the verge of building an atom
>>> bomb, as little as a year away."
>>>
>>> "Some of the first posted documents dealt with Iraq's program to
>>> make germ weapons, followed by a wave of papers on chemical arms.
>>>
>>> At the United Nations in New York, the chemical papers raised
>>> alarms at the Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission,
>>> which had been in charge of searching Iraq for all unconventional
>>> arms, save the nuclear ones."
>>>
>>> "On Sept. 20, the site posted a much larger document, "Summary of
>>> technical achievements of Iraq's former nuclear program." It runs
>>> to 51 pages, 18 focusing on the development of Iraq's bomb design.
>>> Topics included physical theory, the atomic core and high-explosive
>>> experiments. By early October, diplomats and officials said, United
>>> Nations arms inspectors in New York and their counterparts in
>>> Vienna were alarmed and discussing what to do."
>>>
>>> No wonder Bill Clinton made regime change in Iraq the official
>>> policy of the U.S.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> They won't want to hear this, it doesn't fit the agenda, so
>> therefore it must be nothing but rightwing lies and deceit out forth
>> by Bush just to get control of the world supply for his cronies in
>> Texas. It's unfortunate that history has not been taught in public
>> schools for the last 30 years or so, instead of being replaced with
>> political correctness.
>
> Like I already said before, I love how you right wingnuts talk out
> both sides of your mouth at the same time. You claim NYT has a
> "liberal bias" while ignoring Judith Miller's uncritical "reporting"
> of Iraq's WMD (with Chalabi as her source), which was largely
> responsible for turning public sentiment FOR the war in the run-up.
> Judy Miller was acting as the mouthpiece for the Bush administration
> before the Iraq War.
> http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/media/features/9226/
>
> The NYT has since apologized for not being more critical of Judy
> Miller's reporting and administration claims (re the aluminum tubes).
> http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/26/i...&en=94c17fcffad92ca9&ei=5007&partner=USERLAND
>
> NYT "Liberal Bias?" Ha! Hardly.

Dumbass -

Their front-page story TODAY was designed to slam the Bush Admin (actually,
Congressional Republicans but when you can blame it on Bush, do it) for
posting this stuff on the web -- NOT to confirm that Saddam had an active
nuclear program after all. They just sort of /missed/ that part.
 
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