Has anyone tried the Bigha?



Mark Leuck wrote:

> for a carbon fiber Trek or Cannondale. $3000 is chump change at my area bike
> store

Wow, if $3000 is chump change at your area bike store, I want to come
and catch what people don't bother to pick up that falls out of their
pockets.

--
Where no oxen are, the crib is clean,
But much benefit is derived from the labor of the ox.
 
skip wrote:

> It there is any truth at all to the claim that they spent 1/2 million
> dollars to develop a mesh seat that's sure to give you recumbent butt, then
> I have to wonder about the wisdom of the decision makers at BiGHA. Seems to

(chuckle) Maybe they were just hypersensitized to the huddled masses
who claimed that the BikeE seats were horrible and were bound and
determined not to repeat that mistake -- but went overboard.

--
Where no oxen are, the crib is clean,
But much benefit is derived from the labor of the ox.
 
"Mark Leuck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:f0tyc.19797$0y.5298@attbi_s03...
[...]
> Maybe they just liked the bike or the watch? If they really wanted to
outdo
> the guy next door they wouldn't buy a BigHa, instead they'd pay twice that
> for a carbon fiber Trek or Cannondale. $3000 is chump change at my area
bike
> store

I wonder what it might be like to live in a world where $3000. is chump
change! Surely someone is exaggerating here slightly?

When I was buying my first upright bicycle several decades ago, I spent
months debating between a Peugeot and a Gitane because of a $10. price
difference.. I examined the bikes from all angles to find wherein that $10.
price difference resided. The Gitane was the cheaper and so I ended up
buying it, but I never knew for sure if I shouldn't have spent the extra $10
and gotten the Peugeot. Such was life back in the balmy 1970's.

I have never paid more than a few bucks for a wrist watch either. But that
is because I knew I was buying a time piece and not jewelry.

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
Larry Varney wrote:
> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>
>> Larry Varney wrote:
>>
>>> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I know a slow heavy comfort is not a good value for me at $3000. Nor
>>>> is it for Ed Dolan. So is the Bigha a good value for YOU? If no,
>>>> then we all agree!
>>>> You're up to about 30 posts now defending this bike. What's the
>>>> attraction?
>>>>
>>>> Lorenzo L. Love
>>>> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>>>
>>>> Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
>>>>
>>>
>>> I give up. You are either deliberately obtuse, or one of the
>>> stupidest people I have ever seen posting. I have said nothing good
>>> about this bike, and yet you claim that I'm defending it.
>>> Have I said good things about the bike? No. Have I disputed any
>>> claims that you have made about the bike? No. Of course, there's
>>> little point in disputing the claims of someone who has never seen,
>>> much less ridden it. Have I bought a BiGHA? No.
>>> And yet you claim that I'm "defending" the bike. On what grounds?
>>> That I keep telling you, over and over and over again, that there are
>>> many criteria involved in the evaluation and purchase of EVERYTHING,
>>> not just this one bike? That is a defense of the bike? How?
>>> Love, if I were defending the bike, I would talk about how smooth
>>> it rode, how fast it was, how the weight didn't matter, how the price
>>> is justfified for one or multiple reasons, and so on. Have I done
>>> that? No. Have I done anything even remotely like that? No.
>>> Of course, it's not necessary for me to have actually written
>>> anything like that, is it? Both you and Dolan love your little game,
>>> your little childish antics of making obviously baseless accusations,
>>> based not on what was actually written, but on what Dolan calls
>>> "intentions". It would be funny, except that I suspect there might be
>>> some medical condition behind it all.
>>> So which is it, Love? Deliberate? A medical condition? Or are you
>>> honestly stupid?
>>>
>>
>> You are just incapable of answering a simple question, aren't you? Is
>> the Bigha a good value for YOU?
>>
>> If you are not defending the Bigha in the last thirty odd posts, just
>> what are you doing? Is this some sick personal attack? Why does it
>> matter so much to you that many people think the Bigha is grossly
>> overpriced?
>>
>> Lorenzo L. Love
>
>
> If I am not defending the BiGHA - Love, are you really that dense?
> Have you not honestly been able to see that I've been explaining, again
> and again, the idea of numerous criteria for all purchases, and how they
> are viewed in different ways by different people? How many times does
> that need to be explained to you? How can you possibly see this as a
> defense of ANYTHING, much less one particular bike?
> And I don't care at all what you think of any bike, much less one
> you've never seen nor ridden. Why should I? Could your opinions have any
> credence at all, based as they are on NOTHING?
> And as for whether or not the BiGHA is a good value for me personally,
> I have to say that, unlike certain really stupid people, I need some
> actual experiences with the bike before I'm ready to pass judgement on
> it. If I were to actually ride the thing for a while, I would be able to
> say whether or not I thought it was worth the money being asked for it.
> Here's something for you to think about, Love. Think about the
> statements I've made about the BiGHA specifically, the ones where I used
> its name in a sentence, for example. Write them down, and circle the
> words that describe the bike in favorable terms. Those would be called
> compliments. Then find the ones where I am referring to the bike in
> specific words, and am refuting the opinions of those who are attacking
> it. That would be defending it. Circle those words.
> And then come back and tell us just what I said that was a compliment
> about the bike, along with the sentences that specifically defended it.
> OK? This will be a good exercise for you, comparing reality with what
> you've been claiming.
>

I'll try again: Is the Bigha a good value for YOU? If you don't know,
why are you so worried about people who do have opinions?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
 
Mark Leuck wrote:

> "Lorenzo L. Love" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Mark Leuck wrote:
>>
>>>"Lorenzo L. Love" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Because if you didn't give a fair and impartial review, you wouldn't be
>>>>working for Consumer Reports for long. Consumer Reports, because they
>>>>buy the product and are not dependent on the manufacturers for free
>>>>products, can insist on fair reviews. Who does that for recumbents?
>>>
>>>
>>>So what you are saying is anything a reviewer who receives free bikes is
>>>meaningless?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Not completely meaningless but you have to take into account that they
>>can not be too critical or make a no buy recommendation.
>
>
> Sure they can, first off its nearly impossible to find a BAD recumbent so
> they'd never say "don't buy this bike" anyway. Bicycles aren't that complex
> of a device and any critical remarks will always be based on the same things
> such as comfort, tires and mechanical things like shifters or brakes, I've
> yet to see a review where they weren't critical of any of these
>
> Can you name one reviewer that isn't too critical and won't make a no buy
> recommendation?
>
>

Slow heavy comfort bikes aren't that complex of a device that you need
to pay $3000 for one. Can you name one reviewer who pays full retail for
all reviewed bikes?

You's almost as adamantly defensive of the Bigha as Varney is. What's
the Bigha to you?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
 
skip wrote:
>>"Hashim El Amin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>
> <snip>
> . However, it is clear to me that Bigha is
>
>>>being run by a wise business man who knows how to turn a profit.
>>>Since businesses are designed to make a profit and profitless
>>>businesses eventually shut down (like BikeE did), this would lead me
>>>to conclude Bigha will be around for a while.
>>
> "Mark Leuck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:qEsyc.33638$Sw.24914@attbi_s51...
>
>>I think the jury is still out if BigHa has made a profit yet, the bike's
>
> not
>
>>been out very long and we don't know specific sales figures
>>
>>
>
>
> It there is any truth at all to the claim that they spent 1/2 million
> dollars to develop a mesh seat that's sure to give you recumbent butt, then
> I have to wonder about the wisdom of the decision makers at BiGHA. Seems to
> me that pissing away a half million on the seat would tend to have a
> negative effect on BiGHA's ability to turn an early profit. I have no idea
> how much profit is built into each BiGHA sold, but I bet they'll have to
> sell a whole bunch of 'em to recover the claimed seat development cost.
>
> skip - whose glad it isn't his money
>
>

Sound a bit of accounting trickery. Use one hand to pay the other and
write it off as a business expense. I wonder if any of them worked for
Enron?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"There was a time when a fool and his money were soon parted, but now it
happens to everybody."
Adlai E. Stevenson
 
Edward Dolan wrote:

> "Mark Leuck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:f0tyc.19797$0y.5298@attbi_s03...
> [...]
>
>>Maybe they just liked the bike or the watch? If they really wanted to
>
> outdo
>
>>the guy next door they wouldn't buy a BigHa, instead they'd pay twice that
>>for a carbon fiber Trek or Cannondale. $3000 is chump change at my area
>
> bike
>
>>store
>
>
> I wonder what it might be like to live in a world where $3000. is chump
> change! Surely someone is exaggerating here slightly?
>
> When I was buying my first upright bicycle several decades ago, I spent
> months debating between a Peugeot and a Gitane because of a $10. price
> difference.. I examined the bikes from all angles to find wherein that $10.
> price difference resided. The Gitane was the cheaper and so I ended up
> buying it, but I never knew for sure if I shouldn't have spent the extra $10
> and gotten the Peugeot. Such was life back in the balmy 1970's.
>
> I have never paid more than a few bucks for a wrist watch either. But that
> is because I knew I was buying a time piece and not jewelry.
>

There you have the real reason many of these people can't understand
that the Bigha is so overpriced. $3000 just isn't much money to them so
other criteria are more important. Like what color it is. The perfect
Bigha customer.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"The poor are like foxes: they need intelligence in order to survive.
The rich, however, have power; they don't need good sense."
Sheri S. Tepper, Singer from the Sea
 
"Melinda Meahan - remove TRASH to reply" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
> skip wrote:
>
> > It there is any truth at all to the claim that they spent 1/2 million
> > dollars to develop a mesh seat that's sure to give you recumbent butt,
then
> > I have to wonder about the wisdom of the decision makers at BiGHA.
Seems to
>
> (chuckle) Maybe they were just hypersensitized to the huddled masses
> who claimed that the BikeE seats were horrible and were bound and
> determined not to repeat that mistake -- but went overboard.

Melinda, I too always found the BikeE seat to be just horrible. I could only
stand those seats for about a half hour and then recumbent butt would set
in. I have no patience at all for a recumbent that can't get the seat right.
Surely, recumbents are all about comfort and not about much else. If I were
designing a recumbent, I would start with the seat and then design the
recumbent around it. Instead, it is as if the seat is often the last thing
that a recumbent designer gets to. It is mostly an afterthought. Good grief!
What can they be thinking?

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
"Melinda Meahan - remove TRASH to reply" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:%[email protected]...
> Mark Leuck wrote:
>
> > for a carbon fiber Trek or Cannondale. $3000 is chump change at my area
bike
> > store
>
> Wow, if $3000 is chump change at your area bike store, I want to come
> and catch what people don't bother to pick up that falls out of their
> pockets.

Yeah, me too Melinda. I can't believe some of the stuff I am reading here on
ARBR. I feel like I have entered the twilight zone.

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
"Mark Leuck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:u4tyc.1128$Hg2.576@attbi_s04...
>
> "Lorenzo L. Love" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Mark Leuck wrote:
> > > "Lorenzo L. Love" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > >>Because if you didn't give a fair and impartial review, you wouldn't
be
> > >>working for Consumer Reports for long. Consumer Reports, because they
> > >>buy the product and are not dependent on the manufacturers for free
> > >>products, can insist on fair reviews. Who does that for recumbents?
> > >
> > >
> > > So what you are saying is anything a reviewer who receives free bikes
is
> > > meaningless?
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Not completely meaningless but you have to take into account that they
> > can not be too critical or make a no buy recommendation.
>
> Sure they can, first off its nearly impossible to find a BAD recumbent so
> they'd never say "don't buy this bike" anyway. Bicycles aren't that
complex
> of a device and any critical remarks will always be based on the same
things
> such as comfort, tires and mechanical things like shifters or brakes,
I've
> yet to see a review where they weren't critical of any of these
>
> Can you name one reviewer that isn't too critical and won't make a no buy
> recommendation?

Actually, Mark, Bob Bryant of RCN has gotten into considerable trouble over
the years because he has given some slightly bad reviews to various
recumbent manufacturers. Needless to say, those of us who subscribe to RCN
have enormous respect for him because of this. I believe he has also lost
advertising revenue in that some manufacturers (fairly major) will not
advertise in his magazine or even send him information for listing. I would
never consider buying any recumbent from such a manufacturer. Mr. Bryant has
enormous credibility with his readership because of the stands he has taken
over the years. He is for the consumer, not the manufacturer. How unlike
Varney he is! Mr. Bryant will tell you what is good value and why. That is
why his publication is worth every penny of the subscription price.

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
"Mark Leuck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:LCvyc.71994$3x.36231@attbi_s54...
>
> "Larry Varney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Mark Leuck wrote:
> > > "Larry Varney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > >
> > >>brief ride on a Vision.
> > >> It took all of about 15 minutes to realize that the "facts" were
> > >>wrong, that swb were not "twitchy". At least, not this one. So, maybe
> > >>others weren't either. Shortly after that ride, I bought an Haluzak
> > >>Horizon, followed by a string of several other swb recumbents. And
guess
> > >>what? They weren't twitchy at all.
> > >
> > >
> > > Odd because while I didn't find my Vision to be twitchy I did find the
> > > Haluzak was :)
> > >
> > >
> >
> > It's odd how some people have trouble with one bike, but a fairly
> > similar one seems to be OK. I've known people who could handle swb but
> > flopped all over on a lwb, and vice-versa. Which really does emphasize
> > the point that people really need to check out bikes themselves, when at
> > all possible.
>
> The twitchy part didn't really bother me, the seat did, when it was
reclined
> I could no longer put my feet flat on the ground like I could with the
> Vision. Another odd note is people at my work loved riding the Vision but
> can't seem to get the hang of my Optima Baron, I had no problems at all
> adjusting
>
> Go figure :)

The problem is that those first few minutes of riding a recumbent are
determinative. Stay on it for a few hours and a lot of the problems go away.
But that is why recumbents are so hard to sell. Those first few minutes are
determinative.

Comfort bikes have a huge advantage here because you can ride them right
away. There is no learning curve. A learning curve however slight is a big
turn off for most potential customers. Your Optima has a bigger learning
curve than the Vision.

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
"Lorenzo L. Love" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
[...]
> "The poor are like foxes: they need intelligence in order to survive.
> The rich, however, have power; they don't need good sense."
> Sheri S. Tepper, Singer from the Sea

Lorenzo, you have got the greatest signatures of anyone on this newsgroup. I
agree with each and every one of them. Where did you ever dig up these
jewels of wisdom? I hope you don't mind, but I am saving them to My
Documents (via Notepad) and I may use them myself in the future. Such pearls
of wisdom should be in all our vocabularies.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
"Lorenzo L. Love" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Slugger wrote:
> > Any comments about it?
>
> Have we convinced you to buy one yet?

I suspect Slugger is long gone from here by now. He must think we are all
crazy as loons. Well, ARBR is not for the faint of heart. What with Varney,
Lueck, yourself and me I think we have most likely driven everyone else
away. But I do note that gentle Melinda is still with us.

We should resolve to do this all over again every 6 months or so just to
show the rest of the world what ARBR is made of. I wonder if Bigha could
haul us into court over our various comments about their bike. Varney has
scrambled my brains so I am going to lie down and see if this terrific
headache he has given me will ever go away.

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
"Melinda Meahan - remove TRASH to reply" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:%[email protected]...
> Mark Leuck wrote:
>
> > for a carbon fiber Trek or Cannondale. $3000 is chump change at my area
bike
> > store
>
> Wow, if $3000 is chump change at your area bike store, I want to come
> and catch what people don't bother to pick up that falls out of their
> pockets.

The most expensive bike they carried was $8,000, most obviously weren't that
high but once you get to the carbon fiber models the price starts to
skyrocket
 
"Lorenzo L. Love" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > I have never paid more than a few bucks for a wrist watch either. But
that
> > is because I knew I was buying a time piece and not jewelry.
> >
>
> There you have the real reason many of these people can't understand
> that the Bigha is so overpriced. $3000 just isn't much money to them so
> other criteria are more important. Like what color it is. The perfect
> Bigha customer.

So whats the problem then? BigHa isn't marketing to the recumbent crowd, my
guess is because the recumbent crowd is way too small to market to anyway
witnessing the demise of several manufacturers in the last few years who
DID.
 
"Melinda Meahan - remove TRASH to reply" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
> Larry Varney wrote:
>
> > I think it's always dangerous to start figuring that any individual
> > knows what is best for any other individual, what they should wear, what
> > they should eat, and what they should spend their money on.
> > You have judged this particular bike not to be worth the money (a good
> > value) - for you. But how can you be so sure that it's not a good value
> > for someone else? You know the criteria that you're using to determine
> > the "best value", but is it the same as someone else's?
>
> That's not what I am saying. I am saying that if you spend $3K on that
> bike, a lot of what you are buying according to the old marketing ditty,
> is "sizzle" and not "steak." Paying a large price for "sizzle" makes
> something not a good value. That doesn't mean that some people won't
> prefer it.

Simple capitalistic principle "Price what the market will bear". Since none
of us have ridden the thing we can't really judge if its got a lot of steak
or not.
 
"Lorenzo L. Love" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> > Can you name one reviewer that isn't too critical and won't make a no
buy
> > recommendation?
> >
> >
>
> Slow heavy comfort bikes aren't that complex of a device that you need
> to pay $3000 for one. Can you name one reviewer who pays full retail for
> all reviewed bikes?
>
> You's almost as adamantly defensive of the Bigha as Varney is. What's
> the Bigha to you?

As usual you can't answer the question I ask but expect everyone to answer
yours even after they have so I ask you once again if you can name one
reviewer that isn't too critical and won't make a no buy recommendation?

I am not adamant for the bike however unlike you I will not judge it without
riding it.
 
"Mark Leuck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:hzyyc.14542$eu.13644@attbi_s02...
>
> "Melinda Meahan - remove TRASH to reply" <[email protected]> wrote in
> message news:%[email protected]...
> > Mark Leuck wrote:
> >
> > > for a carbon fiber Trek or Cannondale. $3000 is chump change at my
area
> bike
> > > store
> >
> > Wow, if $3000 is chump change at your area bike store, I want to come
> > and catch what people don't bother to pick up that falls out of their
> > pockets.
>
> The most expensive bike they carried was $8,000, most obviously weren't
that
> high but once you get to the carbon fiber models the price starts to
> skyrocket

Mark, the bike shop in my hometown (now gone out of business) simply could
not sell any bike over about $600. He had a carbon fiber road bike for
around $1000. and it sat in his shop like forever. Everyone here in town
thought he was crazy for even having such an expensive bike in his shop. His
best sellers were in the $200. to $300. range.Very many folks after seeing
his "high" prices simply went out to Wal-Mart and got their bikes for less
than $100. Such is life here on the high prairie of southern Minnesota.

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
"Mark Leuck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:lCyyc.86108$Ly.46773@attbi_s01...
>
> "Lorenzo L. Love" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > > I have never paid more than a few bucks for a wrist watch either. But
> that
> > > is because I knew I was buying a time piece and not jewelry.
> > >
> >
> > There you have the real reason many of these people can't understand
> > that the Bigha is so overpriced. $3000 just isn't much money to them so
> > other criteria are more important. Like what color it is. The perfect
> > Bigha customer.
>
> So whats the problem then? BigHa isn't marketing to the recumbent crowd,
my
> guess is because the recumbent crowd is way too small to market to anyway
> witnessing the demise of several manufacturers in the last few years who
> DID.

Sorry Mark, your info about your local bike shop that carried an $8000. bike
has destroyed your relevance with me. I simply cannot imagine such a thing.
We reside on different planets, maybe separate universes. I'll maybe catch
you in the next life - if there is a next life after death.

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota


>
>
>
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

J
has anyone tried the schlumpf mountain/speed/high-speed crank drive?
Replies
8
Views
2K
Recumbent bicycles
Jon Bendtsen
J
N
So Has Anyone Tried Out Huffy's Recumbent Bicycle?
Replies
1
Views
767
Recumbent bicycles
Ken C. M.
K
bikegirl1958
Has anyone tried a ROWBIKE?
Replies
4
Views
4K
Recumbent bicycles
fsiebold
fsiebold
S
Has anyone tried the Bigha?
Replies
265
Views
15K
Recumbent bicycles
William Higley
W
B
  • Locked
has anyone tried out the P.E.T trike?
Replies
4
Views
1K
Recumbent bicycles
Christopher Jor
C
Top Bottom Back