Can't Use Helmets in the Sun????



Hadron Quark wrote:
>
> Noone rides bikes in the UK. In the netherlands they have flat cycle
> paths everywhere and everyone cycles.


Never missing an opportunity to be wrong eh? In London, cycling is
around 20% of journeys now and well into double percentage figures in
many UK cities.

--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci
 
Peter Clinch <[email protected]> writes:

> Hadron Quark wrote:
>
>> Noone rides bikes in the UK.

>
> I saw several of these non-existent people this morning. Cycle use
> has been booming in London since the congestion charge was introduced.
> Last I heard London was part of the UK...
>
>> In the netherlands they have flat cycle
>> paths everywhere and everyone cycles.

>
> The perception of fietspads being /everywhere/ is actually false:
> there are plenty of places in NL where cyclists and motorists share
> road space.
>
> But why let mere facts get in the way of a good argument?


Your inability to except a generalization is almost laughable.

So you dont agree that cycling facilities and terrain in Hollad are
better and flatter than most other places?

As a %, you disagree that in germany, holland etc a lot more cycle than
in the UK?

Come off it : you sound ridiculous.
 
Hadron Quark wrote:
>
> Who has said cycling is much more dangerous? I thought this thread
> was about whether a helemt would protect one. Why are you constantly
> shifting to discussing whether walking is more dangerous than cycling
> (which it clearly isnt reagardless of how many ridiculous statistics
> you spout).


Because if you believe helmets work and the risks of cycling necessitate
wearing one then there is a greater necessity to wear one walking. If
you don't believe either then you do what I do and don't wear one while
walking or cycling.


--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci
 
Peter Clinch <[email protected]> writes:

> Hadron Quark wrote:
>
>> Who has said cycling is much more dangerous?

>
> If it /isn't/ then why does it merit special head protection?
>


Snore. Who said it does? YOu seem unable to differentiate between
someone accepting that a helmet is better than no helmet and someone who
supports a MHL.

btw, nice rearrangement again : you will know that I was pointing out
that the comparison game was not being played.

It is you who keeps bringing up the "more than" "less than" arguments
for some reason : most posters in this thread dont care about whether a
helmet would protect one when popping to the garden shed for the shears.
 
Peter Clinch wrote:
>
>> (which it clearly isnt reagardless of how many ridiculous statistics
>> you spout).

>
> So how do all those people end up with injuries which they collect at a
> higher rate per unit distance than cyclists?
>


Perhaps that's why our hospitals are overcrowded in the UK - the beds
are filled by fictitious people who don't really exist but annoyingly
turn up in the admissions records. Now if we could just get the doctors
and nurses to understand these people don't exist and their beds are
really empty we could solve the hospital bed problem in an instant.
Over to you Pete, you work in a hospital. ;-)

--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci
 
Hadron Quark wrote:

>
> As a %, you disagree that in germany, holland etc a lot more cycle than
> in the UK?
>


Yes the percentage is greater and do you think that is anything to do
with it being seen as a normal safe activity that virtually no-one
thinks requires the protection of a helmet. In the days when I used to
wear a helmet and my daughters stayed with Dutch families on a school
exchange, the Dutch parents couldn't understand why on earth we thought
our children needed the protection of a helmet to go cycling. Here in
the UK many parents think anyone that lets their child cycle is
irresponsibly endangering their child, criminally so if they cycle
without a helmet. And you wonder why more Dutch cycle.

--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci
 
On Fri, 02 Jun 2006 01:49:45 GMT, "Sorni"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
>> On Thu, 1 Jun 2006 17:52:18 -0700, "GaryG" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Not where I ride....the vast majority of cyclists I see on the west
>>> coast and the mountain west are wearing helmets (well, except for
>>> the "cyclists" who ride Wally-World bikes balancing a case of beer
>>> on the handlebars with a cigarette dangling between their lips).

>>
>> Could you clarify this? Of all people you see riding bikes --
>> regardless of what they ride/smoke/etc -- do the vast majority wear
>> helmets? If so, that's interesting.
>>
>> Where I live -- New York City -- it's not clear to me what the
>> situation is. I can't easily get a fix on it -- I'd guess it's abut
>> half but I could be way off -- it could easily be as little as a
>> quarter wear helmets. Or it might be a bit more than half.

>
>Gary's comment sure rings true for Southern California. (In fact, I think I
>wrote something quite similar a few days ago.)
>
>Other than people on "comfort" bikes riding the wrong way on sidewalks, the
>vast majority of cyclists I see are helmeted. I'd say at least 80% on the
>road; close to 100% off-road.


It's noteworthy that in your "vast majority" comments both you and
Gary choose to exclude certain cyclists.

>It's still quite unusual to see someone on a true "road bike" without a
>helmet. (Once every...two weeks maybe.)


This suggests to me that at least part of wearing a helmet is from
believing it's what serious cyclists wear.

Which reminds me -- you never answered the question about what you
would do if you had a nice place to ride and no helmet available.

JT


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On Fri, 02 Jun 2006 02:42:24 GMT, "Cathy Kearns"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I'd say around the SF peninsula, about 90% of the people wearing lycra and
>riding road bikes for recreation or sport wear helmets. About 15% of the
>adults wearing regular clothes and riding bikes to get to work or for
>errands wear helmets.


Yeah, it's vaguely like this in NYC. But hard to know how much of
each sort of cyclist there are. And in the working cyclist group
(people riding as part of their job) it's about zero of food delivery
people wear helmets, and around half of messengers do.

JT

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On Fri, 02 Jun 2006 11:26:21 +0200, Hadron Quark
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Tony Raven <[email protected]> writes:
>
>> Jay Beattie wrote:
>>> I also have a shower
>>> helmet, a walking helmet, a car helmet -- but I only wear those to ****
>>> off Frank and Tony.

>>
>> You being consistent would not **** me off at all. And the ones that
>> think cycling is so much more dangerous than any other every day
>> activity that it needs special protective clothing mainly bemuse me
>> except when they start campaigning to enforce their choice on others.

>
>Who has said cycling is much more dangerous? I thought this thread was
>about whether a helemt would protect one. Why are you constantly
>shifting to discussing whether walking is more dangerous than cycling


Because it points out major logical flaws on the part of strong helmet
proponets. If a strong helmet proponent doesn't use a helmet in other
similarly safe activities it proobably means 1 of 2 things:
1 They believe cycling is more dangeous than those other activities
2 They are choosing to wear a helmet for some "reason" other than the
facts.

The latter is OK if we're honest about it. If you say "Look, I know
the odds of it helping prevent a serious injury are remote, but I've
worn it all my life and my gut wants me to wear it" I've got no
problem with that. Or "My husband won't let me ride without it and
it's not worth arguing with him about." Or "There is a law in one
place where I ride that requires it." Fine.

But insofar as those of us in this group are talking publicly about
our behaviour and seriving as opinion leaders, to say "I always wear a
helmet on the road" without at least recognizing the weakness of
rationale for that behaviour is lame and even deceptive.

JT

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In article <[email protected]>,
"Sorni" <[email protected]> wrote:

SNIP

> Frank, who puts down illiterate waitresses as having no value (or certainly
> less than his own), suddenly aligns himself with the beer-toting butt-toking
> DUI wrong way riders on sidewalks! What a man of the people! LOL


Best response yet,Sorni!!

HAND
Ride a Bike
...or get bent
 
On Fri, 02 Jun 2006 11:46:42 +0200, Hadron Quark
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Peter Clinch <[email protected]> writes:
>
>> Hadron Quark wrote:
>>
>>> Noone rides bikes in the UK.

>>
>> I saw several of these non-existent people this morning. Cycle use
>> has been booming in London since the congestion charge was introduced.
>> Last I heard London was part of the UK...
>>
>>> In the netherlands they have flat cycle
>>> paths everywhere and everyone cycles.

>>
>> The perception of fietspads being /everywhere/ is actually false:
>> there are plenty of places in NL where cyclists and motorists share
>> road space.
>>
>> But why let mere facts get in the way of a good argument?

>
>Your inability to except a generalization is almost laughable.
>
>So you dont agree that cycling facilities and terrain in Hollad are
>better and flatter than most other places?
>
>As a %, you disagree that in germany, holland etc a lot more cycle than
>in the UK?
>
>Come off it : you sound ridiculous.


Dear Hadron,

Er, I think that subtle clues in Gary G.'s post hint that he refers to
the western United States:

"Not where I ride....the vast majority of cyclists I see on the west
coast and the mountain west are wearing helmets (well, except for the
"cyclists" who ride Wally-World bikes balancing a case of beer on the
handlebars with a cigarette dangling between their lips)."

["west coast," "mountain west," "Wally-World"]

If "no one" cycles in the UK, then the American West (where we
devoutly believe that the UK is a crowded bicycle paradise) must
involve the intriguing notion of negative California ridership.

Not to make anyone sound ridiculous.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel
 
In article <[email protected]>,
"GaryG" <[email protected]> writes:

> Not where I ride....the vast majority of cyclists I see on the west coast
> and the mountain west are wearing helmets (well, except for the "cyclists"
> who ride Wally-World bikes balancing a case of beer on the handlebars with a
> cigarette dangling between their lips).


Nobody balances a case of beer on their handlebar. That's too
inviting of disaster. Better to nestle it under one arm like a
hen guarding her brood, or a cyclist-surfer taking his/her board
to the beach. Better yet is 6-pack cans (not glass) in stout bags
dangled from the brake levers, bar ends, or upturned drops -- then
they're less susceptible to shaking. The aluminum cans might later
lead to Alzheimer's, but in the meantime they can do for seatpost shims.
Heineken cans have some good contours to 'em, if one wants shims with
some degree of convex/concave curvature.

As for smoking while riding, I suppose some folks will try it, but
eventually the effects of tongue-burn and smoke-eye (or worse yet --
ash-eye or ember-eye) will dissuade them.

I can easily guise myself as something like the riders you
describe (and I often do,) what with my ugly bike with it's
fenders & milk crate & toeclip covers made from pieces of
inner-tube. When I do so, am I a cyclist, or just a "cyclist"?

What exactly /does/ the word: "cyclist" mean anyways, apart
from the legal lingo in traffic laws? At any rate, I'm
perfectly happy to simply be a bike ridER rather than a bicyclIST,
same as anyone else who has gravitated to their own personal
style of riding bicycles. AFAICT, it's the *ers who do the
doing; it's the *ists who stand around, just thinking' & talkin'
about doing, and perhaps buying stuff (like helmets, for example)
to look the part, instead of developing their quads 'n calves 'n
lungs 'n survival smarts. (I guess *eer, as in engin[eer] is an
incrementation of *er, kinda like C++)

I infer from your post that you believe bicycle riders' legitimacies
as bicycle riders depends on possession and use of bicycle helmets,
and perhaps other garb, accoutrements and mammon-begotten stuff.

I don't think so.

Those folks on cheap bikes, grinding their ways to work while
dressed in their jack-shirts and work gloves and hard hats,
and no "official", safety-agency-approved helmet, are your
fellow riders.

/Anybody/ riding a bicycle is your fellow rider.
Maybe not your fellow "cyclist" (Whatever the heck that means,)
but your fellow rider.

And that person deserves at least acknowledgment & recognition,
if not respect, as such. You don't have to like the guy and take
him home to dinner; just please at least cut 'im some slack, and
don't put him down as inferior.

Cutting slack for people is good. I like to do so, 'cuz I like
people. And sometimes I need a li'l slack cut for me ;-)


cheers,
(I forgot my name. Oh, well ...)

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca
 
On Fri, 2 Jun 2006 18:35:10 -0700, [email protected] (Tom Keats)
wrote:

>As for smoking while riding, I suppose some folks will try it, but
>eventually the effects of tongue-burn and smoke-eye (or worse yet --
>ash-eye or ember-eye) will dissuade them.


I see guys doing it regularly.
[stuff snipped]
>Cutting slack for people is good. I like to do so, 'cuz I like
>people. And sometimes I need a li'l slack cut for me ;-)


Ditto.

JT


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In article <[email protected]>,
John Forrest Tomlinson <[email protected]> writes:

>>Cutting slack for people is good. I like to do so, 'cuz I like
>>people. And sometimes I need a li'l slack cut for me ;-)

>
> Ditto.


I perceive that all too often, cyclists/riders are their/our
own worst enemies.

Whudda buncha trite, officious, picayune bickerers (amongst
ourselves) we can sometimes be.

Oh, well.


cheers,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca
 
Quoting Tom Keats <[email protected]>:
>As for smoking while riding, I suppose some folks will try it, but
>eventually the effects of tongue-burn and smoke-eye (or worse yet --
>ash-eye or ember-eye) will dissuade them.


Maybe a hookah mounted to the rear is the answer.
--
David Damerell <[email protected]> flcl?
Today is Sunday, June - a weekend.
 
Hadron Quark wrote:
> Tony Raven <[email protected]> writes:
>
> > Jay Beattie wrote:
> >> I also have a shower
> >> helmet, a walking helmet, a car helmet -- but I only wear those to ****
> >> off Frank and Tony.

> >
> > You being consistent would not **** me off at all. And the ones that
> > think cycling is so much more dangerous than any other every day
> > activity that it needs special protective clothing mainly bemuse me
> > except when they start campaigning to enforce their choice on others.

>
> Who has said cycling is much more dangerous? I thought this thread was
> about whether a helemt would protect one. Why are you constantly
> shifting to discussing whether walking is more dangerous than cycling
>

(which it clearly isnt reagardless of how many ridiculous statistics
you spout).
 
Hadron Quark wrote:
> Tony Raven <[email protected]> writes:
>
> > Jay Beattie wrote:
> >> I also have a shower
> >> helmet, a walking helmet, a car helmet -- but I only wear those to ****
> >> off Frank and Tony.

> >
> > You being consistent would not **** me off at all. And the ones that
> > think cycling is so much more dangerous than any other every day
> > activity that it needs special protective clothing mainly bemuse me
> > except when they start campaigning to enforce their choice on others.

>
> Who has said cycling is much more dangerous? I thought this thread was
> about whether a helemt would protect one. Why are you constantly
> shifting to discussing whether walking is more dangerous than cycling
> (which it clearly isnt reagardless of how many ridiculous statistics you spout).


Take an old helmet put a melon and drop it on a sidewalk from three
feet. Now drop just the melom. This is your brain,This is your brain
on the side walk!
vmcreek;It's not what you ride but that you ride.
 
vmcreek wrote:

> Take an old helmet put a melon and drop it on a sidewalk from three
> feet. Now drop just the melom. This is your brain,This is your brain
> on the side walk!


If people's brains and skulls were really that prone to damage we'd have
died out millenia ago, because any time anyone fell over they'd be
killed. No need to wait for bikes to be invented.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
vmcreek wrote:
>
> Take an old helmet put a melon and drop it on a sidewalk from three
> feet. Now drop just the melom. This is your brain,This is your brain
> on the side walk! vmcreek;It's not what you ride but that you ride.
>


My head isn't a melon but I can't speak for yours

--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci
 
In article <[email protected]>,
vmcreek ([email protected]) wrote:
> Take an old helmet put a melon and drop it on a sidewalk from three
> feet. Now drop just the melom. This is your brain,This is your brain
> on the side walk!


See this melon? That's you, that is. That's your head. All green and
squashy. Ick.
<Mary_Whitehouse-Experience>

--
Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
Among the calamities of war may be jointly numbered the diminution of
the love of truth, by the falsehoods which interest dictates and
credulity encourages.