Re: OT Flame War



Mark Leuck wrote:

> "Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Ogg Oggibly wrote:
>>
>>
>>>...
>>>Too bad you aren't in the USA. You could have made a small contribution
>
> to
>
>>>John Kerry's election loss with this kind of nonsense. I mean you are
>
> no
>
>>>Michael Moore, but you could have contributed.
>>
>>Funny how all those exit polls had Kerry winning in Florida and Ohio,
>>but the electronically tabulated votes came out in Bush II's favor. Or
>>do you really think a precinct that voted 70% Democratic in the
>>primaries voted 60% for Bush II in the general election.
>
>
> Thats because the exit polls were not complete when broadcast and it was fed
> by a number of bloggers, as usual the media jumped the gun
>
>
>>And of course we will likely never know if the electronic voting
>>machines with no paper trail were rigged - such devices are an
>>abomination to representative democracy.
>
>
> Yes and paper ballots worked great in Florida in 2000 :)

Those were not "paper ballots" as usually defined, but machine punched
cards. As is typical practice, the oldest machines that spoil the
highest percentage of ballots were used in predominantly black precincts.

--
Tom Sherman
 
[email protected] (Kurt Fischer) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> There are more bikes than inhabitants
> in this country.
>
> Kurt

That's because half of them are at the bottom of the canals, having
been stolen and dumped. At least that's what the tour guide told us
when my wife and I visited Amsterdam...

Jeff (Dutch birth certificate... but my parents are from Illinois.
Told you I was strange.)
 
"Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> > Flame me if you will but the stats do not support your opinion. You can
> > argue HOW it is being administered but not that it isn't available, now
if
> > you don't mind I must throw up for agreeing with Mr Ed
>
> So when was the last time you were homeless, Mr. Leuck?

A little over 15 years ago, how about you?

> When was the
> last time you had to wait when ill until you were sick enough to require
> hospitalization to get medical care?

Never had that problem while homeless but emergency rooms were always
available, you?

> Have you ever spent time in a
> shelter?

Almost 2 years worth, you?

> Is that really better than having guaranteed housing, medical
> care, and income above the poverty level?

Most likely not although some of the guaranteed housing I've seen in Europe
is worse (no I didn't live in one)

> Are children living in a government provided PRIVATE apartment with
> adequate clothing, medical care, and food really worse off than homeless
> children sleeping in a car or crowded shelter in the US are?

If a child is sleeping in a car the parents either want that to be the case
or are ignorant of the MANY plans currently available today thanks to our
government

> This has to be one of the most stupid and/or ignorant claims I have ever
> seen.

Sorry if the facts do not bear out what you say Tom but I'd hardly call it
stupid

> "The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of
> those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have
> too little." -- Franklin D. Roosevelt

New York City spends $700,000,000 yearly for an estimated 30,000 to 40,000
homeless, thats $17,500 per individual, I'd say thats a lot of progress but
apparently not enough for you
 
Edward Dolan wrote:

> "gavin11756" <[email protected]> wrote in
> message news:[email protected]...
>
>>****** indeed had courage. He won the Iron cross twice in WW1. His
>>country was ruined by the Versailles treaty which the British though
>>was bad, and the "you know who " had a lot to do with ruining the
>>country.
>>
>>German troops popular in Russia as they hated Stalin
>
>
> The downtrodden of the Soviet Union initially welcomed the Germans as
> liberators. If ****** had played his cards different the outcome could have
> been different.
>
> By the way, does any liberal know who killed more people in the course of
> their rule, the National Socialist ****** or the Communist Stalin?

Stalin was a communist in name only.

If we take various estimates of deaths due to various purges under
Stalin, we end up with a range of 15-30 million, which is greater than
the 5-7 million that died under ****** in similar circumstances.

However, weighed against this is the number of deaths caused by ******
waging war in Europe which has been estimated to be in excess of 40
million (25-30 million, or about 1 in every 8 in the Soviet Union alone).

--
Tom Sherman
 
Mark Leuck wrote:
> "Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>>>Flame me if you will but the stats do not support your opinion. You can
>>>argue HOW it is being administered but not that it isn't available, now
>
> if
>
>>>you don't mind I must throw up for agreeing with Mr Ed
>>
>>So when was the last time you were homeless, Mr. Leuck?
>
>
> A little over 15 years ago...

Under what circumstances (since the information was volunteered)?

--
Tom Sherman
 
Jeff Wills wrote:

> [email protected] (Kurt Fischer) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
>>There are more bikes than inhabitants
>>in this country.
>>
>>Kurt
>
>
> That's because half of them are at the bottom of the canals, having
> been stolen and dumped. At least that's what the tour guide told us
> when my wife and I visited Amsterdam...

But the tires on these bicycles may still be inflated.
<http://sheldonbrown.org/bicycle.html>,
<http://sheldonbrown.org/images/Rusty_Schwinn.JPEG>.

--
Tom Sherman
 
"G. Morgan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!
>
> Frank, you're not going to let him get away with that RU?


Yup... He's a cretin. Rational people ignore idiotic ravings in favour of
informed debate. Mr. Dolan continues to spout nonsense about the Muslim
faith based on supposition, hatred, and the actions of a small minority. He
spouts lies and innuendo about people he's never met based on nothing more
than "if they don't think like me, they're traitors". He continues to do
absolutely *nothing* but make funny faces in front of his computer monitor
while letting others fight the "war" he so strongly favours.
 
"Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ogg Oggibly who? wrote:
>
>> ...
>> I have no problem condemning abuses of women and children be it my next
>> door neighbor, a local priest, a Hindu, or an Islamic State/Nation, or
>> whoever....
>
> So you will condemn the killing of children in Iraq by the US military and
> Palestinian children by the IDF?

If the US military would kill you I would not condemn it. It would be good
riddance to a poor crazy fool who does not know his ass from a hole in the
ground.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
"Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>>> The Koran is what anyone wants to make of it. So is the Bible.
>>> Christians stopped making a horror of the Bible several centuries ago.
>>
>> Oh?? Really?? How do you explain the Biblical "horrors" of this century
>> then?? David Koresh. Jim Jones. Bountiful.
>
> The horrors of this century are all being committed by Muslims. The
> horrors of the last century, which you reference, were very small cults,
> aberrations of Christianity.

Bountiful is still in full operation. The men there are abusing girls as
young as eleven and twelve. I guess living in isolation in *Minnesota*
tends to make you fell all warm and fuzzy.


> However, the main horrors of the last century were committed by leftist
> ideologues, like ****** and Stalin and Mao, etc. In other words, they were
> like you that way since you are also nothing but a leftist ideologue.

Hmmm... Ever heard of Robert Pickton??


>
>>> The Muslims are still making a horror of their Koran.
>>
>> So are people that espouse Christianity.
>
> Not right now today they aren't.

"Bountiful"...


>
>>> "Islam" (as a religion) is open to interpretation just as
>>>> Chrisianity is. God gave us the ability to reason and the freedom to
>>>> interpret His Word. Individuals that choose to "spin" that Word
>>>> abound. "Extremists" exist in *every* faith. You can't condemn an
>>>> entire people because of the actions of a few insane individuals.
>>>
>>> The very great numbers of Muslims who are choosing to interpret their
>>> religion one way as opposed to another way are never just a few, but
>>> rather constitute the vast majority in various regions of the world,
>>> most particularly in the Middle East.
>>
>> And this premise is based on what statistical evidence??
>
> The great statistic of believing what you see with your own two eyes.

Ahhh... then your "word" is "law"... :))
My mistake for not recognizing your "greatness".


>
>>>>> The same goes for Tom Sherman who prefers to bash Christianity and
>>>>> refer us to cartoon sites making jokes of hanging women and stoning
>>>>> children in lieu of condemning these atrocities.
>>>>
>>>> Islamic fundamentalism isn't responsible for these atrocities. Men
>>>> (and even some women) are.
>
> But all those men (and women) turn out to be Muslims. Most peculiar? Or
> just coincidental?

Of course they are!!! We're talking about *Islamic* fundamentalism. Not
Sikh, Hindu, or even Christian...


>
>>> It is precisely and exactly Islamic fundamentalism that is indeed
>>> responsible for the atrocities that Muslims are committing in the world
>>> today. What men think matters and religious thought gone astray is just
>>> as dangerous as any other kind of thought gone astray, maybe more so.
>>
>> You obviously don't know how a "fundamentalist" interprets the Quran.
>
> Sure I do. It is a simple religion for simple people. Anyone who is not an
> idiot like you can understand it.

L. Ron Hubbard did it... I figure I can come up with a religion for idiots
too...


>
>>>>> We've already covered the point there is not much you can do about
>>>>> what is happening in other counties. As I told you earlier at least
>>>>> you could speak up, take a stand, and condemn the abuse. You could
>>>>> even do that now if wished.
>>>>
>>>> I've always believed that "actions are louder than words". I find it
>>>> funny that people like you (and Mr. Dolan) would "insist" I "take a
>>>> stand" or condemn a certain action (or religion) to prove I'm "worthy"
>>>> or "a patriotic American". I'm one voice in a cosmic fugue (perhaps
>>>> not as strident as Mr. Dolan's, but at least I'm not horribly "off
>>>> key").
>>>
>>> You are an apologist for a religion that is an abomination. To equate
>>> Islam with Christianity is your biggest mistake.
>>
>> I *never* have "equated" one with the other.
>
> You do nothing but that. You are doing it in this present post of yours.
> Muslims commit murders, so do Christians. Blah, blah, blah. How tiresome!

Heh... pointing out that there are "bad apples" in every bunch means I'm
"equating" a "Golden Delicious" with a "MacIntosh"...


>
>>> One has evolved into a universal religion worthy of all mankind and the
>>> other has never evolved and is suited only for savages.
>>
>> And you sir are blind. I'm surprised actually. I thought you capable of
>> at least a semblance of intelligence.
>
> Flattery will get you nowhere with me. You must appeal to my intellect if
> you would get through to me.

I wasn't "trying" to flatter anyone. I was merely observing a stunning
inconsistency. It's like watching molecules fly apart...


>
>>> Ogg has already shown to you what they are capable of when it comes to
>>> their treatment of women.
>>
>> Ogg has shown me what *men* are capable of. *Men* are capable of the
>> same thing in North America (and they're not necessarily Muslim either).
>
> Nope, we Christians and other civilized types do not stone anyone, let
> alone little girls, for having "dishonored" some male ape with a bit of
> sexual experimentation.

No. Some "Christian" faiths espouse shunning the individual. Some...
well... you still haven't looked up or read anything about "Bountiful",
have you??


> Frank, you g.d. blockhead, you are a ****ing idiot and I am really getting
> fed up with you. You may yet force me to go to a dictionary of invective
> to get some new names to call you. Just calling you an idiot doesn't do
> justice to what you are.

Ed. Pardon me but your ignorance is in full flower with this post.


>
>>> 9/11 has shown the entire world what they are capable of in their
>>> treatment of non-Muslims - and all in the name of their religion.
>>
>> 9/11 demonstrated what a few sick twisted individuals are capable of when
>> working in concert. I'm sure you'll continue to "extol their bravery",
>> but the bottom line is they were fanatics as well as Terrorists.
>> Reasonable men do not strap 10 lbs of Semtex to their toros and walk up
>> to a bus load of kids to blow it up. You should read a bit more on the
>> psychology the Terrorists employ at their so called "training camps".
>> The men and women that "voluteer" themselves for immolation are not
>> rational beings.
>
> Men who are religious fanatics do exactly what we see them doing. Today it
> is only Muslims who embody this degree of fanaticism.

Wrong.


> They are not crazy and they are brave and courageous. They are giving
> their lives for a cause that they believe in.

Heh.... Ed figures anyone that straps a bomb to their chest so they can
wipe out a busload of kids is "brave" and "courageous".


>
> Time to wake up Frank and touch reality before you find yourself flying
> through the ether, just another victim of a "sick twisted individual."
> Now please excuse me while I go to the smallest room in my house and puke
> while I think of you and your ****ed up philosophy.

What's your address?? I'll FedEx some wet-wipes.


>
>>> It is their despicable religion that motivates them in almost everything
>>> they think and do.
>>
>> The Christian faith has been responsible for more atrocities than I can
>> list here. But do go on...
>
> But not lately. And lately is all I care about at the moment.


"Bountiful"...
 
"Frank Olson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:v7hkd.170556$%k.148382@pd7tw2no...
> "G. Morgan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!
>>
>> Frank, you're not going to let him get away with that RU?
>
>
> Yup... He's a cretin. Rational people ignore idiotic ravings in favour
> of informed debate. Mr. Dolan continues to spout nonsense about the
> Muslim faith based on supposition, hatred, and the actions of a small
> minority. He spouts lies and innuendo about people he's never met based
> on nothing more than "if they don't think like me, they're traitors". He
> continues to do absolutely *nothing* but make funny faces in front of his
> computer monitor while letting others fight the "war" he so strongly
> favours.

Frank the ****ed (also known as the Girly Man) will only get a considered
response from me in the future when he transfers his very small brain from
his testicles to the upper part of his head where it belongs. I can't be
bothered with fools who think Muslims are OK - when the whole world knows
they are anything but OK. Besides, he is a liberal pacifist, the worst known
species of mankind.

Hey Frank, I am OK, you are NOT OK! Just thought you should know in case you
have any illusions about yourself.

Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

PS. Loved that bit about a "small minority." Also, I really appreciate that
bit too about "fight" and "war." That coming from a liberal pacifist is too
rich for words.
 
"G. Morgan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 14:15:46 -0600 "Edward Dolan"
> used 138 lines of text to write in newsgroup:
> alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
>
>>You may yet force me to go to a dictionary
>>of invective to get some new names to call you. Just calling you an idiot
>>doesn't do justice to what you are.
>
>
> http://www.mikegallay.com/prisspec.html

Many thanks Graham. You have come to my rescue just in the nick of time as I
am running out of words to throw at the cretins infesting this newsgroup. I
will save that web site to my Favorites and will resort to it as the
occasion demands. Look for some new and fresh name calling from me in the
near future.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 04:51:39 GMT "Frank Olson"
used 17 lines of text to write in newsgroup:
alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent

>"G. Morgan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!
>>
>> Frank, you're not going to let him get away with that RU?
>
>
>Yup... He's a cretin. Rational people ignore idiotic ravings in favour of
>informed debate. Mr. Dolan continues to spout nonsense about the Muslim
>faith based on supposition, hatred, and the actions of a small minority. He
>spouts lies and innuendo about people he's never met based on nothing more
>than "if they don't think like me, they're traitors". He continues to do
>absolutely *nothing* but make funny faces in front of his computer monitor
>while letting others fight the "war" he so strongly favours.
>

Funny thing about the Internet, it has enabled people you would
normally never hear from to express their views (however skewed they
may be). These might be the types that are shirtless on a street
corner, ringing a cowbell, proclaiming "The end is near!". Or they
may be a well respected figure in their community - they could be a
health worker, an executive, a blue collar tradesman, military
personnel, you name it.


Modern technology has allowed their opinions (or rants) to appear
right in your own home, in the form of electrons dancing across your
screen. Everybody has an opinion about religion, morality, politics,
world affairs, gay-marrage, drug legalization, etc...


The one thing I have YET to see is someone responding to a person on
the virtual soapbox and say, "You're right. My view on that issue was
wrong, thank you for setting me straight." It just does not happen.


There is an interesting sociological lesson in here somewhere. People
don't come to Usenet topics like this to "debate". They come to vent
frustration. They come to entertain themselves. Some just want
someone to listen to them. I'm fairly certain no one actually
believes they can change someone's mind about these issues.

That said, get off your ass and don't let ED call you a ****ed-up
cowardly girly-man!


--
-Graham

Remove the 'snails' from my email
 
"Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mark Leuck wrote:
> > "Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >
> >
> >>>Flame me if you will but the stats do not support your opinion. You can
> >>>argue HOW it is being administered but not that it isn't available, now
> >
> > if
> >
> >>>you don't mind I must throw up for agreeing with Mr Ed
> >>
> >>So when was the last time you were homeless, Mr. Leuck?
> >
> >
> > A little over 15 years ago...
>
> Under what circumstances (since the information was volunteered)?
>
> --
> Tom Sherman

Various reasons, mostly stupid things I did over a 5 year period, funny
thing tho is you see many of the others in the same situation and almost all
were there because of the following reasons

1. That was the life they chose (yes Tom those people do exist)
2. Alcoholism
3. Drug abuse

(my reasons were not any of those)

Now you can "think" all you want that the homeless are nothing but old men,
women and children forced out by an oppressive government or cruel business
hell-bent on starving them out of existance but I assure you that isn't the
case, if you want proof go to any soup kitchen (nice one in N. Vegas) and
talk to the people, ever been to one?

They can easily get out of that situation yet they don't and won't. I don't
know where you get your information but it is clearly wrong about many
things based on my own experience and government statistics, my guess is you
want to believe it regardless if it is factual or not and why this is I
don't know. I also believe you have an exceptional knowledge of recumbents,
now if you could put that same passion to the rest of society you might
change your mind about a few things

(my opinion)
 
On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 23:32:32 -0600 "Edward Dolan"
used 26 lines of text to write in newsgroup:
alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent

>Many thanks Graham. You have come to my rescue just in the nick of time as I
>am running out of words to throw at the cretins infesting this newsgroup. I
>will save that web site to my Favorites and will resort to it as the
>occasion demands. Look for some new and fresh name calling from me in the
>near future.

That's the spirit Ed! :~)



--
-Graham

Remove the 'snails' from my email
 
"Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Edward Dolan wrote:
>
>> "G. Morgan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 18:44:29 -0600 "Tom Sherman"
>>>used 23 lines of text to write in newsgroup:
>>>alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
>>>
>>>
>>>>But hey, it is okay to kill tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi's in the
>>>>name of neo-imperialism.
>>>
>>>What is it with "neo" being thrown around everywhere lately?
>>>Neo-conservatives, now neo-imperialism. Did Foxnews and CNN get
>>>together to create a neo-word-order? I prefer to call a spade a spade
>>>(oh ****, I forgot to whom I was replying to).
>>>
>>>To answer your question though, the innocent Iraqi's are "collateral
>>>damage".
>>
>>
>> Graham has got it exactly right, but that is something liberals like Mr.
>> Sherman will never grasp because they are opposed to war - period! Better
>> that evil should exist in the world forever than that anyone should ever
>> do anything decisively about it - like going to war. No, they would have
>> us palavering about the evil in the world at the UN until the end of
>> time.
>>
>> But it is debatable just how "innocent" anyone is in the world also. I
>> would say there are degrees of guilt. The Iraqis allowed themselves for a
>> variety of reasons to be ruled by a tyrant. This normally does have
>> consequences not just for the tyrant but for the subjects of the tyrant
>> too. But all in all, the Iraqi's got off very light due to American
>> forbearance. Most conquered peoples are treated the way the Nazis treated
>> the peoples they conquered in the course of WW II. But Mr. Sherman
>> probably thinks Americans are not any better than Nazis. After all, war
>> is war.
>
> That is very similar to the justification given by Usama bin Laden for
> attacking the US - after all we are responsible for the actions of our
> government - even if is put in place by rigged elections.

Yes, and he is not far from wrong about that either. We are all in this
together, the people and their government, no matter the government.
Nonetheless, we do not target civilians because we are civilized., If and
when they get killed it is because they are in the way - collateral damage.
Muslim terrorists target civilians because they are savages. There is quite
a difference there. It always amazes me that you cannot see the difference
between the two modes of operation. The reason that you cannot see the
difference is because you have let your hatred of America color your
reasoning ability.

By the way, just keep thinking that the elections are rigged and you will
never find yourself in power ever again. I would think Canada if I were you
if that is what I really thought was happening.

> "Next the statesmen will invent cheap lies, putting the blame upon the
> nation that is attacked, and every man will be glad of those
> conscience-soothing falsities, and will diligently study them, and refuse
> to examine any refutations of them; and thus he will by and by convince
> himself that the war is just, and will thank God for the better sleep he
> enjoys after this process of grotesque self-deception." - Mark Twain

Mark Twain was very much a crackpot on most things. So was Will Rogers.
Humorists should never take themselves seriously, nor should the public ever
take them seriously either. They are to be laughed at more than with.
However, they both had a way with words. I will give them that much.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 05:11:34 GMT "Frank Olson"
used 196 lines of text to write in newsgroup:
alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent

>L. Ron Hubbard did it... I figure I can come up with a religion for idiots
>too...


Isn't that the same kind of generalization you're accusing Ed of?


--
-Graham

Remove the 'snails' from my email
 
"Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >
> > Yes and paper ballots worked great in Florida in 2000 :)
>
> Those were not "paper ballots" as usually defined, but machine punched
> cards. As is typical practice, the oldest machines that spoil the
> highest percentage of ballots were used in predominantly black precincts.
>
> --
> Tom Sherman

Oddly enough in counties run by democrats who decided what type of
balloting to use in the first place

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/Commentary/com-9_17_04_JF.html
 
"Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> G. Morgan wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 18:44:29 -0600 "Tom Sherman" used 23 lines of text to
>> write in newsgroup:
>> alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
>>>But hey, it is okay to kill tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi's in the
>>>name of neo-imperialism.
>>
>>
>> What is it with "neo" being thrown around everywhere lately?
>> Neo-conservatives, now neo-imperialism. Did Foxnews and CNN get
>> together to create a neo-word-order? I prefer to call a spade a spade
>> (oh ****, I forgot to whom I was replying to).
>>
>> To answer your question though, the innocent Iraqi's are "collateral
>> damage".
>
> "Collateral damage" - there is a euphemism!
>
> Why not call it what it is - unintentional homicide in an action that
> meets the "just war" criteria, and in case such as Iraq, murder.

The above is too stupid for words. Mr. Sherman has lost his reasoning as a
result of losing the election.

> "To hell with Bush, he is another Mongol in a line of invaders who have
> destroyed Iraq." - Mohammed al-Jubouri.

It was Sadaam who destroyed Iraq with his tyranny. If I were in charge, I
would do to Fallujah what Rome did to Carthage. It would serve as an object
lesson to one and all. This winning the hearts and minds business is a lot
of ****. Read your Machiavelli.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota











>
 
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