Re: OT Flame War



"Frank Olson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:yxCkd.181588$Pl.179085@pd7tw1no...
>
> PS: If you *must* know, I voted for Bush. That makes me some "Liberal
> Conservative girly man", eh?? :))


Damn and all this time I thought you were one of these people

http://72.3.131.10/gallery/1/

I know Tom has gotta be in there somewhere :)
 
"G. Morgan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 02:37:30 GMT "Mark Leuck"
> used 38 lines of text to write in newsgroup:
> alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
>
> >I went to one in downtown Dallas last month, I don't see any real changes
> >these days although the food appears to be better, same type of people...

>
>
> Are you an advocate/ volunteer working with these guys Mark?


In this case no, I was installing an alarm system, seems some of the
customers were breaking in at night and robbing the place

I am not an advocate, I was one of em
 
"G. Morgan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 22:16:46 -0600 "Tom Sherman"
> used 19 lines of text to write in newsgroup:
> alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
>
> >> Are you an advocate/ volunteer working with these guys Mark?

> >
> >Maybe he is trying to sell the homeless home security systems. ;)

>
>
> One of his pals tells me he's actually a pretty nice guy outside of
> Usenet. I was trying to gauge whether or not to elevate him to "Saint
> Mark". ;~)


"Your highness" will be sufficient
 
"Frank Olson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:yxCkd.181588$Pl.179085@pd7tw1no...
> "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Frank Olson" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> message news:M4rkd.177359$%k.5317@pd7tw2no...
>>> "G. Morgan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 05:11:34 GMT "Frank Olson"
>>>> used 196 lines of text to write in newsgroup:
>>>> alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
>>>>
>>>>>L. Ron Hubbard did it... I figure I can come up with a religion for
>>>>>idiots
>>>>>too...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Isn't that the same kind of generalization you're accusing Ed of?
>>>
>>>
>>> Not at all... My hat's off to Mr. Hubbard (the founder of the "Church"
>>> of Scientology). If you read how he did it, you'll see it's a lot
>>> easier "founding" a church than it is bringing the monster to life...
>>> Drat!! Now you've got me comparing "religion" to Frankenstein's
>>> monster... What will Ed make of *this*?? :))

>>
>> Frank, I am not religious at all but I have enormous respect for those
>> that are, but they must be adherents of mainstream religions and not
>> cults. I have noted that the religious at least pay homage to the virtues
>> whether or not they practice them - and that counts for a lot with me.
>> Your true scoundrel is someone who heaps scorn on religion without any
>> understanding of the role of religion in the life of mankind.
>> Sophistication is everything when it comes to how to think about
>> religion.

>
>
> This is truly scary... I find myself actually agreeing with you.
>
> Would you say there was a large difference between, say, a "cult" (headed
> by a "savvy Christian"), and a Muslim Terrorist cell (which is usually
> "headed" by a very savvy "Mullah")? If David Koresh (who was stockpiling
> large numbers of firearms and ammunition) had decided to send his
> adherents out on "missions" that involved suicide bombings, ambush, and
> attacks on local law enforcement, how would these have differed from the
> attacks we've all read about in Iraq and Israel?


The difference here that you are failing to recognize is that ALL Christians
would immediately have condemned him and spoken out against him. The Muslims
do not do that with respect to the Muslim terrorists. They are making a huge
mistake by not doing so. There is still steel in the West and we are not to
be trifled with, most especially not America. The Muslim SILENCE on Muslim
terrorism is DEAFENING!

You've indicated that Christianity is a "more
> sophisticated" religion than Islam. I simply don't see that. Both faiths
> (if not all) can be "twisted" to suit whatever nefarious practices a
> single "magnetic" individual can envision. I'm not apologizing for Islam
> as you seem bent on accusing me of. I'm merely pointing out that *all*
> faiths have their kooks and zealots. It's unfortunate that these same
> kooks keep making the headlines.


Islam is not on the same level as Christianity. It is still a very primitive
religion. Christianity was incorporated into the Greek and Roman world and
has been reformed over and over again. Islam is the same now as it was at
it's founding. It is intolerant in the extreme and you cannot live in a
Muslim society unless you are a Muslim yourself.

> PS: If you *must* know, I voted for Bush. That makes me some "Liberal
> Conservative girly man", eh?? :))


Damnation! I would never have thought it in a million years. I am in a state
of shock at this revelation! You have just ascended into the stratosphere in
my estimation of you for having voted for Bush. I have the feeling you may
have voted for Bush for different reasons than I did, but it doesn't matter.
It was the right vote for whatever reason. Congratulations!

--
Best Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
"Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mr. Ed Dolan wrote:
>
>> ...There are opportunities available to Americans of all classes that
>> Europeans can only dream about.

>
> That was true up until three to four decades ago. Now the opportunities
> for those born into the lower classes in Western Europe have exceeded
> those for people in the US born into the lower classes. This will become
> even truer with the Republican agenda of concentrating wealth in the hands
> of the already rich.
>
> Time to get up to date, Mr. Ed Dolan.


My God Mr. Tom Sherman. What planet are you living on?

My home town of Worthington is being flooded by Hispanics from Mexico and
Central America. They start off working at the local meat packing plant and
before you know it they are opening businesses on main street. They are
taking over the town. I admire them enormously. They have get up and go -
something I never had in my entire life.

Emigrants are pouring into this country from all over the world for just one
reason - opportunity. The very rich are not the evil you imagine them to be.
They have to invest their money in the economy and that creates
opportunities for everyone else.

Time to shuck your socialist ideology, Mr. Tom Sherman.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
"G. Morgan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 22:16:46 -0600 "Tom Sherman"
> used 19 lines of text to write in newsgroup:
> alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
>
>>> Are you an advocate/ volunteer working with these guys Mark?

>>
>>Maybe he is trying to sell the homeless home security systems. ;)

>
>
> One of his pals tells me he's actually a pretty nice guy outside of
> Usenet. I was trying to gauge whether or not to elevate him to "Saint
> Mark". ;~)


There is only one saint on this newsgroup and that is me ... Saint Edward of
the Order of the Perpetual Miseries of Minnesota. I will have no other
saints before me! I am as chaste and as poverty stricken as any holy monk of
the Middle Ages. I just don't subscribe to that bit about being obedient.
That goes totally against my nature.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
"Mark Leuck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:T3Dkd.393739$D%.106223@attbi_s51...
>
> "G. Morgan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 22:16:46 -0600 "Tom Sherman"
>> used 19 lines of text to write in newsgroup:
>> alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
>>
>> >> Are you an advocate/ volunteer working with these guys Mark?
>> >
>> >Maybe he is trying to sell the homeless home security systems. ;)

>>
>>
>> One of his pals tells me he's actually a pretty nice guy outside of
>> Usenet. I was trying to gauge whether or not to elevate him to "Saint
>> Mark". ;~)

>
> "Your highness" will be sufficient


Only "Your Majesty" will do for me.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
"Mark Leuck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:N2Dkd.324999$wV.51812@attbi_s54...
>
> "G. Morgan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 02:37:30 GMT "Mark Leuck"
>> used 38 lines of text to write in newsgroup:
>> alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
>>
>> >I went to one in downtown Dallas last month, I don't see any real
>> >changes
>> >these days although the food appears to be better, same type of
>> >people...

>>
>>
>> Are you an advocate/ volunteer working with these guys Mark?

>
> In this case no, I was installing an alarm system, seems some of the
> customers were breaking in at night and robbing the place
>
> I am not an advocate, I was one of em
>
>


I apologize - after dispensing of Peter with a lethal combination of
gratuitous insults and outright lies I have been resting up and not paying
very close attention. Are you saying you were homeless and installing an
alarm system in the shelter and then breaking in at night and robbing the
place?

I take it the Statute of Limitations has expired, eh?
 
"James S. Prine" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >Now the opportunities
>>for those born into the lower classes in Western Europe have exceeded
>>those for people in the US born into the lower classes.

>
> "Lower classes"? We still have those?


We Americans are all Middle Class. Everyone in the world knows that except
Mr. Sherman. I think you would have to go to India to find those "lower
classes."

However, sociologists do classify folks according to where they fall on the
income scale. I myself have been as poor as a church mouse all of my life
but I have never considered myself lower class. Au contraire, I have
considered myself on the level of Kings because I have walked with giants
like Beethoven all of my life, at least in my mind. There is more to class
than economics.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
"Frank Olson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:6MCkd.181644$Pl.136096@pd7tw1no...
> "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> Ogg Oggibly wrote:
>>>
>>>> ...
>>>> Jihad - A war by Muslims against unbelievers or enemies of Islam,
>>>> carried out as a religious duty.
>>>>
>>>> Webster's New World College Dictionary
>>>
>>> Webster needs to get a better translator. This may be how "Jihad" is
>>> commonly used in the US by English speakers, but it is wrong.

>>
>> It is the definition being used by Islamic extremists like UBL. What else
>> is there to know.

>
>
> Nope. Sorry Ed. To adopt the definition of the word by one man as (as
> only he sees it), is as misleading (and wrong-headed) as saying "all
> Muslims are Terrorists" (or "all Terrorists are Muslims")...


Until the Muslims speak out against the terrorists in their midst, I will
regard them all as my enemy.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
"Mark Leuck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:__Ckd.324989$wV.64215@attbi_s54...
>
> "Frank Olson" <[email protected]> wrote in
> message
> news:yxCkd.181588$Pl.179085@pd7tw1no...
>>
>> PS: If you *must* know, I voted for Bush. That makes me some "Liberal
>> Conservative girly man", eh?? :))

>
> Damn and all this time I thought you were one of these people
>
> http://72.3.131.10/gallery/1/
>
> I know Tom has gotta be in there somewhere :)


Damn Mark! Where do you get this good stuff anyway?

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 05:44:26 GMT "Mark Leuck"
used 14 lines of text to write in newsgroup:
alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent

>
>I know Tom has gotta be in there somewhere :)


Tom is here:
http://www.sorryeverybody.com/upload_files/se2464.jpg

Frank- set me up with this chick:
http://www.sorryeverybody.com/upload_files/se3041.JPG


Paul from ASA made it too:
http://www.sorryeverybody.com/upload_files/se2243.jpg


--
-Graham

"What I have mostly against middle aged white liberals like you is that you do not know how to hate the proper
people." -Ed Dolan
 
On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 05:49:39 GMT "Mark Leuck"
used 19 lines of text to write in newsgroup:
alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent

>> One of his pals tells me he's actually a pretty nice guy outside of
>> Usenet. I was trying to gauge whether or not to elevate him to "Saint
>> Mark". ;~)

>
>"Your highness" will be sufficient



You'll have to settle for "Your Hiney"


--
-Graham

"What I have mostly against middle aged white liberals like you is that you do not know how to hate the proper
people." -Ed Dolan
 
"G. Morgan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 05:44:26 GMT "Mark Leuck"
> used 14 lines of text to write in newsgroup:
> alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
>
> >
> >I know Tom has gotta be in there somewhere :)

>
> Tom is here:
> http://www.sorryeverybody.com/upload_files/se2464.jpg
>
> Frank- set me up with this chick:
> http://www.sorryeverybody.com/upload_files/se3041.JPG
>
>
> Paul from ASA made it too:
> http://www.sorryeverybody.com/upload_files/se2243.jpg
>
>
> --
> -Graham


None of those links worked

Here's a better one just getting started

http://www.werenotsorry.com/Main.htm
 
On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 07:31:22 GMT "Mark Leuck"
used 31 lines of text to write in newsgroup:
alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent



>
>None of those links worked
>
>Here's a better one just getting started
>
>http://www.werenotsorry.com/Main.htm


HAHAHAAHA!!! Notice the number of folks with guns in the pictures!



Non-authoritative answer:
Name: sorryeverybody.com
Address: 72.3.131.10

Hmm... They work for me. Maybe your DNS is not caught up.

try:


Tom is here:
http://72.3.131.10/upload_files/se2464.jpg

Frank- set me up with this chick:
http://72.3.131.10/upload_files/se3041.JPG


Paul from ASA made it too:
http://72.3.131.10/upload_files/se2243.jpg

--
-Graham

"What I have mostly against middle aged white liberals like you is that you do not know how to hate the proper
people." -Ed Dolan
 
"Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>> This is truly scary... I find myself actually agreeing with you.
>>
>> Would you say there was a large difference between, say, a "cult" (headed
>> by a "savvy Christian"), and a Muslim Terrorist cell (which is usually
>> "headed" by a very savvy "Mullah")? If David Koresh (who was stockpiling
>> large numbers of firearms and ammunition) had decided to send his
>> adherents out on "missions" that involved suicide bombings, ambush, and
>> attacks on local law enforcement, how would these have differed from the
>> attacks we've all read about in Iraq and Israel?

>
> The difference here that you are failing to recognize is that ALL
> Christians would immediately have condemned him and spoken out against
> him. The Muslims do not do that with respect to the Muslim terrorists.
> They are making a huge mistake by not doing so. There is still steel in
> the West and we are not to be trifled with, most especially not America.
> The Muslim SILENCE on Muslim terrorism is DEAFENING!


Hmmm... What you're failing to recognize is that in a lot of Muslim
countries there is no "freedom of the Press" and often no direct
communication links with the "outside world". The "silence" you hear isn't
because they "condone" Terrorism. Most have a major problem putting food on
the table on a daily basis and that happens to be where most of their
concerns center. Remember the "spin" the Iraqi government put on war.
Until American tanks actually entered Baghdad, a lot of Iraqis didn't dare
hope that Saddam's regime would actually fall for fear of reprisals.

Most of the Iraqi's didn't like Saddam. His suppression of the Shia is very
well known. The "Bath Party" represented a very small cross-section of the
population in Iraq (compared to the number of Shia Muslims in Iraq). That
one man and a small minority could so totally control a country is further
evidence of the political and media controls that were in place. I seem to
recall the Taliban Government condemned the "cowardly acts" of 9/11 and
tried to distance themselves (unsuccessfully mind you) from UBL and EQ. All
the Palistinians openly rejoicing in the streets after the towers fell was a
disturbing sight to many (myself included), and even when you take into
account what they themselves have been through (in their struggle for a
homeland) I was still totally disgusted.


>
> You've indicated that Christianity is a "more
>> sophisticated" religion than Islam. I simply don't see that. Both
>> faiths (if not all) can be "twisted" to suit whatever nefarious practices
>> a single "magnetic" individual can envision. I'm not apologizing for
>> Islam as you seem bent on accusing me of. I'm merely pointing out that
>> *all* faiths have their kooks and zealots. It's unfortunate that these
>> same kooks keep making the headlines.

>
> Islam is not on the same level as Christianity. It is still a very
> primitive religion. Christianity was incorporated into the Greek and Roman
> world and has been reformed over and over again. Islam is the same now as
> it was at it's founding. It is intolerant in the extreme and you cannot
> live in a Muslim society unless you are a Muslim yourself.


The Greeks and Romans were Pagans. No matter how you slice it Christ's
message *is* a simple one. Man has only managed to complicat the whole
thing with "pomp and circumstance". The Catholic Church is rich beyond
measure and yet the majority of the people it "serves" are living far below
the poverty line. I don't see this as being part of Christ's message (or
philosphy).


>
>> PS: If you *must* know, I voted for Bush. That makes me some "Liberal
>> Conservative girly man", eh?? :))

>
> Damnation! I would never have thought it in a million years. I am in a
> state of shock at this revelation! You have just ascended into the
> stratosphere in my estimation of you for having voted for Bush. I have the
> feeling you may have voted for Bush for different reasons than I did, but
> it doesn't matter. It was the right vote for whatever reason.
> Congratulations!



I do not, quite frankly, care what you think. I make no apologies for the
opinions I've expressed, and I do not support his actions in Iraq. Nelson
Mandela said (on the eve of the invasion of Iraq): "One power, with a
President who has no foresight and cannot think properly, is now wanting to
plunge the world into a holocaust." I sincerely hope that those words don't
come back to haunt us and I pray our troops over there come back safely.
 
Frank Olson wrote:

> ...
> Most of the Iraqi's didn't like Saddam. His suppression of the Shia is very
> well known. The "Bath Party" represented a very small cross-section of the
> population in Iraq (compared to the number of Shia Muslims in Iraq)....


But the "Bath Party" members certainly were the cleanest people in Iraq.

--
Tom Sherman
 
Mr. Ed Dolan wrote:

> "Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Mr. Ed Dolan wrote:
>>
>>
>>>...There are opportunities available to Americans of all classes that
>>>Europeans can only dream about.

>>
>>That was true up until three to four decades ago. Now the opportunities
>>for those born into the lower classes in Western Europe have exceeded
>>those for people in the US born into the lower classes. This will become
>>even truer with the Republican agenda of concentrating wealth in the hands
>>of the already rich.
>>
>>Time to get up to date, Mr. Ed Dolan.

>
>
> My God Mr. Tom Sherman. What planet are you living on?
>
> My home town of Worthington is being flooded by Hispanics from Mexico and
> Central America. They start off working at the local meat packing plant and
> before you know it they are opening businesses on main street. They are
> taking over the town. I admire them enormously. They have get up and go -
> something I never had in my entire life.
>
> Emigrants are pouring into this country from all over the world for just one
> reason - opportunity. The very rich are not the evil you imagine them to be.
> They have to invest their money in the economy and that creates
> opportunities for everyone else.
>
> Time to shuck your socialist ideology, Mr. Tom Sherman.


Look up the trends in wealth and income distribution in the US over the
past quarter century. Enough said.

--
Tom Sherman
"Use your head, Mr. Ed" – Slugger
 
G. Morgan wrote:

> On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 22:15:32 -0600 "Tom Sherman"
> used 17 lines of text to write in newsgroup:
> alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
>
>
>>That was true up until three to four decades ago. Now the opportunities
>>for those born into the lower classes in Western Europe have exceeded
>>those for people in the US born into the lower classes. This will become
>>even truer with the Republican agenda of concentrating wealth in the
>>hands of the already rich.

>
>
>
> Hfffmmmtttt.
>
> Before I engage you Tom, what specific opportunities are you saying
> are not available to "lower classes".


Let us start out with early childhood. Most do not receive the same
developmental opportunities [1], and even fewer will with the cutbacks
in Head Start proposed by the Cheney/Rove administration and their
Republican allies in Congress.

Then poor children generally go to the worst public schools and live in
the type of areas that offer the least opportunities for activities and
work. The few that overcome these odds and make it through high school
and/or to higher education are still handicapped.

They will generally also take longer to finish higher education or will
have to borrow much more money than those from more affluent backgrounds
will. This will lead to a lifetime deficiency in earned income that will
never be made up compared to someone of equal talent and determination
from a higher economic class.

In Western Europe (and in particular Sweden) there is much higher social
mobility between classes due to better pre-natal care (universal health
coverage), universal pre-schools, better quality public schools, free
higher education, and more progressive taxation.

The US system is increasingly changing in a way that will entrench
wealth and limit social mobility. Nations such as Mexico and Colombia
are the models of what people such as Grover Norquist and many in the
Republican Party are trying to achieve.

[1] The is an almost universal consensus among psychologist who study
childhood development that it is almost impossible for those who get
behind at this stage to ever catch up.

--
Tom Sherman