Re: OT Flame War

[Edward Dolan]

"G. Morgan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 18:44:29 -0600 "Tom Sherman"
> used 23 lines of text to write in newsgroup:
> alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
>
>>But hey, it is okay to kill tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi's in the
>>name of neo-imperialism.
>
> What is it with "neo" being thrown around everywhere lately?
> Neo-conservatives, now neo-imperialism. Did Foxnews and CNN get
> together to create a neo-word-order? I prefer to call a spade a spade
> (oh ****, I forgot to whom I was replying to).
>
> To answer your question though, the innocent Iraqi's are "collateral
> damage".

Graham has got it exactly right, but that is something liberals like Mr.
Sherman will never grasp because they are opposed to war - period! Better
that evil should exist in the world forever than that anyone should ever do
anything decisively about it - like going to war. No, they would have us
palavering about the evil in the world at the UN until the end of time.

But it is debatable just how "innocent" anyone is in the world also. I would
say there are degrees of guilt. The Iraqis allowed themselves for a variety
of reasons to be ruled by a tyrant. This normally does have consequences not
just for the tyrant but for the subjects of the tyrant too. But all in all,
the Iraqi's got off very light due to American forbearance. Most conquered
peoples are treated the way the Nazis treated the peoples they conquered in
the course of WW II. But Mr. Sherman probably thinks Americans are not any
better than Nazis. After all, war is war.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Edward Dolan]

"Mark Leuck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news5Xjd.314968$wV.271143@attbi_s54...
[...]
> The Neatherlands builds more lowracers not Holland, and they aren't the
> same
> country...sorta
>
> http://www.archimon.nl/general/holland.html

I vaguely recall learning in grade school back in the 1940's that Holland
and the Netherlands (not Neatherlands) were not exactly the same, but I had
almost forgotten this until I read the article above. I did remember though
that the Netherlands was the correct term for the country and that Holland
was not. I believe the term Dutch is correct when referring to anyone who is
a citizen of the Netherlands. At least I have never heard the term
Netherlander, but who knows?

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Edward Dolan]

"Mark Rehder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Edward Dolan wrote:
>
>>But it truly does bother me that all the English, at least on this group,
>>seem to be pansies and have no fight in them for taking on any of the
>>world's problems, whether connected to the Muslims or not.
> Aren't they helping you in Iraq? (And don't bother responding with "well,
> Canada sure didn't help". We will help you when you're truly under attack,
> and we've got troops helping out in Afghanistan. Iraq did not attack you.)

Yes, the Brits are helping quite a bit, thanks to Tony Blair. But the
British public is against the war and Blair's support is not as steady as it
should be. He is right of course and the British public is wrong.

In an era of nuclear weapons, if you wait until you are attacked it will be
too late. Those days are gone forever. But the Pearl Harbor mentality we
will always have with us.

>>No wonder they lost their empire. Let us hope and pray that we Americans
>>will never become like them.
>>
> Oh, it will happen. All empires crumble.

The Brits and all the other European powers lost their empires because they
became embroiled in two civil wars (WW I and WW II). They would now be
ruling the world easily if they had not destroyed themselves in brotherly
warfare.

The American empire will be the strangest empire history has ever seen. We
only want to bring democracy to the world. We Americans are the greatest
crusader nation for good the world has ever known. We must represent the
apotheosis of Western Christendom.

We may be on the point of creating a Golden Age for the entire world if only
nuclear war can be avoided. It will be America's gift to all mankind. Our
name will ring down the centuries far greater than all the empires that have
ever been. Maybe America really is God's plan for the transfiguration of the
earth, the City of God realized at long last.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Peter Clinch]

Ogg Oggibly wrote:

> You've made your point.

And you still haven't taken it on board.

> And no I'm not going to write Anmesty International
> and take their time up with your silly assed stuff.

Perhaps because you know they won't reply with what you want to hear?

> They are busy right now
> trying to beg the corrupt UN to stop the genocide in the Sudan. The UN is
> "monitoring" the situation. In the meantime over a 1,000,000 Africans may be
> killed this year by a few bad apples.

No, by a lot of bad apples. There's no shortage of bad apples in the
world, but they're not exclusively Muslim by any stretch of the
imagination. They get really nasty when power is at stake, religion
(pick any) is just an excuse used to manipulate people so other people
can exercise power. This happens in Islam, and Hinduism, and Judaism,
and Christianity etc.

By concentrating your ire on only Muslims, when there are so many other
nasty pieces of work to choose from, you come across as not being even
handed. In China and Hindu India there are lots of girl who'll be
murdered just because they're not boys, but you only seem to care if
it's Muslims committing these crimes. That is not even handed. If you
wish to preach from the moral high ground (and you do) then it is vital
that you're even handed. If you aren't you just breed resentment, as
has been very well shown by e.g. Camp X Ray treatment of detainees in a
way that would certainly be unacceptable to the US if that were done to
their citizens. This sort of thing just comes across as picking
arbitrary fights and doesn't help anyone.

> The following is a letter Amnesty International USA sent to the president of
> Sudan:

And no mention of Muslims in it anywhere... Amnesty are interested in
people who violate human rights, whatever creed they claim. If you did
the same I'd heartily support your condemnations, but you only appear to
see the problems /if/ the perpetrator claims the creed you personally
disapprove of.

> And the last Christian holy war 800 years or so relates to the current
> global Islamic holy war how?

This really doesn't seem to have sunk in, but there isn't a current
global Islamic holy war. Hundreds of millions of people are *not* up in
arms fighting every non-Muslim they find. Most of the Muslims in the
world are going about their day to day business of doing their jobs,
taking their kids to school, cooking their meals and just living life.
Some impressionable ones have been whipped into a frenzy but that's
really about power, not religion, and it's happening in other places and
other religions too. Hindus are being whipped into a frenzy to kill
Sikhs and Moslems, Jews are being whipped into a frenzy to kill Moslems,
and so on and so on. But there is no global Islamic Jihad at the
moment, or I'd have been killed long ago by the Iranian postgrad down
the corridor who is a Muslim but doesn't want any part in your idea of
what his religion is meant to require him to do.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Dave Larrington]

Edward Dolan wrote:

> I do not think Europe will ever unite into one nation.

I don't think there is any intention that it should do so, in spite of what
the muppets of the UK Independence Party might have one believe...

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
World Domination?
Just find a world that's into that kind of thing, then chain to the
floor and walk up and down on it in high heels. (Mr. Sunshine)

 

[Edward Dolan]

"Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ogg Oggibly wrote:
>
>> ...
>> The following is a letter Amnesty International USA sent to the president
>> of Sudan:
>>
>> "Dear Mr. President:
>> I am writing to express my deep concern about acts of violence against
>> women committed by the Janjawid militia in the Darfur conflict and to
>> urge you to take action and to protect the women and girls of Darfur.
>>
>> Amnesty International (AI) delegates have interviewed hundreds of
>> Sudanese refugees in Chad and have found that many of the human rights
>> violations in Darfur have been targeted specifically against women and
>> girls. These violations have included abductions, sexual slavery, torture
>> and forced displacement.
>>
>> Almost every woman in Darfur is at risk of attack: pregnant women and
>> girls as young as eight have not been spared from rape, abduction and
>> sexual slavery. Women have been raped in public, terrorizing and
>> humiliating them, their families and communities. Women have also been
>> tortured to solicit information on the whereabouts of their husbands and
>> other male survivors. Those who resist rape have been beaten, stabbed, or
>> killed. The suffering and abuse endured by these women goes far beyond
>> the actual rape. Women who survive this violence often suffer from severe
>> mental and physical health problems, unwanted pregnancies, social
>> stigmatization, and economic difficulties. Most of these abuses have been
>> committed by the Janjawid militias which operate with your support and
>> enjoy impunity for their actions....
>
> This could well be a description of the way Orthodox Serbs treated Muslim
> Bosnian women in the Balkan war of the early 1990's. Would you claim that
> such behavior is typical of those who follow the Orthodox Christian faith?
> Or is it more typical of the behavior in a conflict driven by ethnic
> hatred?

There was a genocide occurring in Muslim Bosnia which Orthodox Serbia was
responsible for. I rejoiced when Catholic Croatia finally booted the Serbs
from Croatian lands.

The Balkans have been a mess for hundreds of years. The hatreds that existed
there were largely the result of their very peculiar history. The Ottoman
Turks virtually created the Bosnians by converting them to the Muslim
religion. All these peoples are Slavs. In other words, the conflicts and
hatreds were largely due to religion. Sometimes I think religion is the
chief curse of mankind.

So the question arises, are other religions besides the Muslim religion
capable of murder and genocide directed at other religions? The answer to
that is clearly yes. But the Balkans was a very local conflict and it was
not going to spread. It was mainly a squabble about land and living space
and reclaiming ancestral lands.

What may be true of other religions at particular times and places does not
in any way detract from what is now true of Muslims in this time and this
place. Are all Muslims EQUALLY guilty? Of course not, but there is still
something peculiarly evil about their religion regardless. It sets up
conflicts wherever it is found in the world. Muslim aggression is a fact of
life through out Asia. And it seems to be motivated by religion more than
ethnicity.

Islam is not a religion of peace. It is a religion of war. It is at war with
anyone who is not a Muslim. It's aim is to convert you or to put you outside
of Muslim society. It is never easy to be a non-Muslim in a Muslim society.
It is a religion of intolerance in the extreme. It is ever ready to murder
you on the slightest pretext and to justify it on a religious basis. Only
very primitive forms of Christianity ever approach this level of crudity.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Edward Dolan]

"Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Edward Dolan wrote:
>
>> ...The fact is that the poor in this country
>> live better than do the poor in any other country in the world including
>> Europe's poor....
>
> Mr. Dolan opens his mouth and removes all doubt of his willful ignorance.
> How is being homeless, hungry, and without medical care better than having
> the provision of housing, food and medical care guaranteed.
>
> This has to be one of the most idiotic things Mr. Dolan has ever written,
> which is saying a lot.

I do not see any poor people starving in the streets. Until I do I will not
worry excessively about them. We have welfare programs to pick up those who
fall by the wayside.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Edward Dolan]

"Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ogg Oggibly wrote:
>
>> ...
>> Jihad - A war by Muslims against unbelievers or enemies of Islam, carried
>> out as a religious duty.
>>
>> Webster's New World College Dictionary
>
> Webster needs to get a better translator. This may be how “Jihad” is
> commonly used in the US by English speakers, but it is wrong.

It is the definition being used by Islamic extremists like UBL. What else is
there to know.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Edward Dolan]

"gavin11756" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
>
> ****** indeed had courage. He won the Iron cross twice in WW1. His
> country was ruined by the Versailles treaty which the British though
> was bad, and the "you know who " had a lot to do with ruining the
> country.
>
> German troops popular in Russia as they hated Stalin

The downtrodden of the Soviet Union initially welcomed the Germans as
liberators. If ****** had played his cards different the outcome could have
been different.

By the way, does any liberal know who killed more people in the course of
their rule, the National Socialist ****** or the Communist Stalin?

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Edward Dolan]

"Peter Clinch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ogg Oggibly wrote:
[...]
>> They are busy right now trying to beg the corrupt UN to stop the
>> genocide in the Sudan. The UN is "monitoring" the situation. In the
>> meantime over a 1,000,000 Africans may be killed this year by a few bad
>> apples.
>
> No, by a lot of bad apples. There's no shortage of bad apples in the
> world, but they're not exclusively Muslim by any stretch of the
> imagination. They get really nasty when power is at stake, religion (pick
> any) is just an excuse used to manipulate people so other people can
> exercise power. This happens in Islam, and Hinduism, and Judaism, and
> Christianity etc.

Not a few but a group? How about a very large group? How about a religious
ethnic group of hundreds of thousands? How about a nation (Sudan) of
millions of Arabs who all happen to be Muslims?

Religion is not the excuse, it is the reason in the case of the Muslims. By
the way, most of India's problems are with the Muslims and for the same
universal reasons.

Note how old Pete here does not want to talk about Muslims, who at the
moment are committing all the atrocities in the world. He wants to talk
about Judaism and Hinduism of all things. He is as contemptible as the
Muslims he defends.

> By concentrating your ire on only Muslims, when there are so many other
> nasty pieces of work to choose from, you come across as not being even
> handed. In China and Hindu India there are lots of girl who'll be
> murdered just because they're not boys, but you only seem to care if it's
> Muslims committing these crimes. That is not even handed. If you wish to
> preach from the moral high ground (and you do) then it is vital that
> you're even handed. If you aren't you just breed resentment, as has been
> very well shown by e.g. Camp X Ray treatment of detainees in a way that
> would certainly be unacceptable to the US if that were done to their
> citizens. This sort of thing just comes across as picking arbitrary
> fights and doesn't help anyone.

Note how old Pete here does not want to talk about Muslims, who at the
moment are committing all the atrocities in the world. He wants to talk
about Judaism and Hinduism of all things. He is as contemptible as the
Muslims he defends.

>> The following is a letter Amnesty International USA sent to the president
>> of Sudan:
>
> And no mention of Muslims in it anywhere... Amnesty are interested in
> people who violate human rights, whatever creed they claim. If you did
> the same I'd heartily support your condemnations, but you only appear to
> see the problems /if/ the perpetrator claims the creed you personally
> disapprove of.

Note how old Pete here does not want to talk about Muslims, who at the
moment are committing all the atrocities in the world. He wants to talk
about Judaism and Hinduism of all things. He is as contemptible as the
Muslims he defends.

>> And the last Christian holy war 800 years or so relates to the current
>> global Islamic holy war how?
>
> This really doesn't seem to have sunk in, but there isn't a current global
> Islamic holy war. Hundreds of millions of people are *not* up in arms
> fighting every non-Muslim they find. Most of the Muslims in the world are
> going about their day to day business of doing their jobs, taking their
> kids to school, cooking their meals and just living life. Some
> impressionable ones have been whipped into a frenzy but that's really
> about power, not religion, and it's happening in other places and other
> religions too. Hindus are being whipped into a frenzy to kill Sikhs and
> Moslems, Jews are being whipped into a frenzy to kill Moslems, and so on
> and so on. But there is no global Islamic Jihad at the moment, or I'd
> have been killed long ago by the Iranian postgrad down the corridor who is
> a Muslim but doesn't want any part in your idea of what his religion is
> meant to require him to do.

Note how old Pete here does not want to talk about Muslims, who at the
moment are committing all the atrocities in the world. He wants to talk
about Judaism and Hinduism of all things. He is as contemptible as the
Muslims he defends.

--
****ing Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Kurt Fischer]

"Mark Leuck" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...

> > Simple. They build more lowracers per capita than any other nation.

> As a lowracer owner I've always wondered why that was, at least 4 major
> manufacturers all in one small country.

The Netherlands are flat and windy, two good reasons for riding low to
the ground and reclined. Also the Dutch are mostly very tall people, for
someone around 6.6' a race bike is not always a reasonable alternative.

And not to forget, there is a long existing bike culture in the
Netherlands and cycling is not only regarded as sport, but also as an
accepted form of transportation. There are more bikes than inhabitants
in this country.

Kurt

 

[Ogg Oggibly]

"Frank Olson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:md_jd.157594$%k.9002@pd7tw2no...
> "Ogg Oggibly" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> I find it funny you can't bring yourself to condemn atrocities on women
>> and children for the apparent reason that they are being committed my
>> Muslims.
>
>
> "Action" - I lend financial support to Amnesty International (an
> organization that tries to intervene in such atrocities). If, by this
> action I have not adequately demonstrated my disgust at such atrocities
> perhaps you can suggest a more effective means (my *saying so* in this
> Group doesn't benefit anyone or anything but your own ego).

Are you a feminist too? Do you also give money to that worthless NOW? Does
it give you a warm and fuzzy feeling.

You want me to tell you how to condemn Muslim atrocities against women and
children that won't benefit anyone?

As Ed Dolan would say - You are ****ed up.

As Arnold would say - You are a girly man.

Ogg O

 

[Peter Clinch]

Ogg Oggibly wrote:

> You want me to tell you how to condemn Muslim atrocities against women and
> children that won't benefit anyone?

You're still hung up on specifically /Muslim/ atrocities, and though
some Muslims commit atrocities they certainly don't have a monopoly.

Why not be like Amnesty International, who you do seem to respect, and
get hung up about *all* such atrocities and stop obsessing about the
creed of the perpetrator?

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Peter Clinch]

Ogg Oggibly wrote:

> You want me to tell you how to condemn Muslim atrocities against women and
> children that won't benefit anyone?

You're still hung up on specifically /Muslim/ atrocities, and though
some Muslims commit atrocities they certainly don't have a monopoly.

Why not be like Amnesty International, who you do seem to respect, and
get hung up about *all* such atrocities and stop obsessing about the
creed of the perpetrator?

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Frank Olson]

"Ogg Oggibly" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Jihad - A war by Muslims against unbelievers or enemies of Islam, carried
> out as a religious duty.
>
> Webster's New World College Dictionary


"The Islamic idea of jihad, which is derived from the Arabic root meaning
"to strive" or "to make an effort," connotes a wide range of meanings, from
an inward spiritual struggle to attain perfect faith to an outward material
struggle to promote justice and the Islamic social system. The former
meaning was emphasized by Sufis (Muslim mystics), who popularized a
tradition describing the inner jihad as greater than the outer jihad. When
used in the latter sense, jihad is closely identified with the injunction in
the Qur'an, the revelation of God to the prophet Muhammad, to the Muslim
community to "command the right and forbid the wrong" (3:104, 110). The
close connection of jihad with the struggle for justice is reinforced in the
hadith, the sayings and actions attributed to Muhammad. One of the best
known states that a Muslim must strive to avert injustice first by actions,
and if that is not possible, by words, and if that is not possible, at least
by intentions.

During the period of Qur'anic revelation while Muhammad was in Mecca
(610-622), jihad meant essentially a nonviolent struggle to spread Islam.
Following his move from Mecca to Medina in 622, and the establishment of an
Islamic state, fighting in self-defense was sanctioned by the Qur'an
(22:39). The Qur'an began referring increasingly to qital (fighting or
warfare) as one form of jihad. Two of the last verses on this topic (9:5,
29) suggest a war of conquest or conversion against all unbelievers."

Quoted in it's entirety from an article submitted by Shanu Wahid in response
to this:

http://www.danielpipes.org/article/990

 

[G. Morgan]

On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 14:25:53 GMT "Frank Olson"
used 42 lines of text to write in newsgroup:
alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent

>Quoted in it's entirety from an article submitted by Shanu Wahid in response
>to this:


I have nothing of value to add to that. I just wanted to be the one
to take this thread to *500* posts!


--
-Graham

Remove the 'snails' from my email

 

[Ogg Oggibly]

"Peter Clinch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ogg Oggibly wrote:
>
>> You want me to tell you how to condemn Muslim atrocities against women
>> and children that won't benefit anyone?
>
> You're still hung up on specifically /Muslim/ atrocities, and though some
> Muslims commit atrocities they certainly don't have a monopoly.
>
> Why not be like Amnesty International, who you do seem to respect, and get
> hung up about *all* such atrocities and stop obsessing about the creed of
> the perpetrator?
>
I have no problem condemning abuses of women and children be it my next door
neighbor, a local priest, a Hindu, or an Islamic State/Nation, or whoever.
You seem hung up on not accepting the wide spread and condoned abuses of
women and children by Islam, Islamic governments, and Muslim clerics.

The clock is ticking down on 13 year old Zhila Izad in Marivan, Iran. The
holy men will be casting their stones at her shortly. How do you think it
would feel to be killed by having large rocks hit you while you are kneeling
in a field. Why do you have such a HUGE PROBLEM admitting this is being
done in an Islamic Republic by Muslim clerics to a 13 year old girl whose 15
year old brother got her pregnant thereby dishonoring her family. For his
part in the crime her brother got a bad whipping and a scolding.

Have you written yet to comfort Zhila in her last days and to let her know
religion has nothing to do with those stones that will soon be flung at her?
Maybe you could copy Sherman's cartoons of children being stoned and send
them along too. I'm sure she would find them terribly amusing.

Ogg O

 

[Ogg Oggibly]

"Frank Olson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:Rr4kd.163018$Pl.148472@pd7tw1no...
> "Ogg Oggibly" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> Jihad - A war by Muslims against unbelievers or enemies of Islam, carried
>> out as a religious duty.
>>
>> Webster's New World College Dictionary
>
>
> "The Islamic idea of jihad, which is derived from the Arabic root meaning
> "to strive" or "to make an effort," connotes a wide range of meanings,
> from an inward spiritual struggle to attain perfect faith to an outward
> material struggle to promote justice and the Islamic social system. The
> former meaning was emphasized by Sufis (Muslim mystics), who popularized a
> tradition describing the inner jihad as greater than the outer jihad. When
> used in the latter sense, jihad is closely identified with the injunction
> in the Qur'an, the revelation of God to the prophet Muhammad, to the
> Muslim community to "command the right and forbid the wrong" (3:104, 110).
> The close connection of jihad with the struggle for justice is reinforced
> in the hadith, the sayings and actions attributed to Muhammad. One of the
> best known states that a Muslim must strive to avert injustice first by
> actions, and if that is not possible, by words, and if that is not
> possible, at least by intentions.
>
> During the period of Qur'anic revelation while Muhammad was in Mecca
> (610-622), jihad meant essentially a nonviolent struggle to spread Islam.
> Following his move from Mecca to Medina in 622, and the establishment of
> an Islamic state, fighting in self-defense was sanctioned by the Qur'an
> (22:39). The Qur'an began referring increasingly to qital (fighting or
> warfare) as one form of jihad. Two of the last verses on this topic (9:5,
> 29) suggest a war of conquest or conversion against all unbelievers."
>
> Quoted in it's entirety from an article submitted by Shanu Wahid in
> response to this:
>
> http://www.danielpipes.org/article/990
>
>
It is apparently the last two verses (9:5, 29) that Shanu Wahid (who that)
mentioned that is causing the world so much trouble, grief, death, and
expense. And which must be stopped.

 

[Frank Olson]

"Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> The Koran is what anyone wants to make of it. So is the Bible. Christians
> stopped making a horror of the Bible several centuries ago.

Oh?? Really?? How do you explain the Biblical "horrors" of this century
then?? David Koresh. Jim Jones. Bountiful.

> The Muslims are still making a horror of their Koran.

So are people that espouse Christianity.


>
> "Islam" (as a religion) is open to interpretation just as
>> Chrisianity is. God gave us the ability to reason and the freedom to
>> interpret His Word. Individuals that choose to "spin" that Word abound.
>> "Extremists" exist in *every* faith. You can't condemn an entire people
>> because of the actions of a few insane individuals.
>
> The very great numbers of Muslims who are choosing to interpret their
> religion one way as opposed to another way are never just a few, but
> rather constitute the vast majority in various regions of the world, most
> particularly in the Middle East.

And this premise is based on what statistical evidence??


>
>>> The same goes for Tom Sherman who prefers to bash Christianity and refer
>>> us to cartoon sites making jokes of hanging women and stoning children
>>> in lieu of condemning these atrocities.
>>
>> Islamic fundamentalism isn't responsible for these atrocities. Men (and
>> even some women) are.
>
> It is precisely and exactly Islamic fundamentalism that is indeed
> responsible for the atrocities that Muslims are committing in the world
> today. What men think matters and religious thought gone astray is just as
> dangerous as any other kind of thought gone astray, maybe more so.

You obviously don't know how a "fundamentalist" interprets the Quran.


>
>>> We've already covered the point there is not much you can do about what
>>> is happening in other counties. As I told you earlier at least you
>>> could speak up, take a stand, and condemn the abuse. You could even do
>>> that now if wished.
>>
>> I've always believed that "actions are louder than words". I find it
>> funny that people like you (and Mr. Dolan) would "insist" I "take a
>> stand" or condemn a certain action (or religion) to prove I'm "worthy" or
>> "a patriotic American". I'm one voice in a cosmic fugue (perhaps not as
>> strident as Mr. Dolan's, but at least I'm not horribly "off key").
>
> You are an apologist for a religion that is an abomination. To equate
> Islam with Christianity is your biggest mistake.

I *never* have "equated" one with the other.

> One has evolved into a universal religion worthy of all mankind and the
> other has never evolved and is suited only for savages.

And you sir are blind. I'm surprised actually. I thought you capable of at
least a semblance of intelligence.

> Ogg has already shown to you what they are capable of when it comes to
> their treatment of women.

Ogg has shown me what *men* are capable of. *Men* are capable of the same
thing in North America (and they're not necessarily Muslim either).

> 9/11 has shown the entire world what they are capable of in their
> treatment of non-Muslims - and all in the name of their religion.

9/11 demonstrated what a few sick twisted individuals are capable of when
working in concert. I'm sure you'll continue to "extol their bravery", but
the bottom line is they were fanatics as well as Terrorists. Reasonable men
do not strap 10 lbs of Semtex to their toros and walk up to a bus load of
kids to blow it up. You should read a bit more on the psychology the
Terrorists employ at their so called "training camps". The men and women
that "voluteer" themselves for immolation are not rational beings.

> It is their despicable religion that motivates them in almost everything
> they think and do.

The Christian faith has been responsible for more atrocities than I can list
here. But do go on...

 

[Frank Olson]

"Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>> "Action" - I lend financial support to Amnesty International (an
>> organization that tries to intervene in such atrocities). If, by this
>> action I have not adequately demonstrated my disgust at such atrocities
>> perhaps you can suggest a more effective means (my *saying so* in this
>> Group doesn't benefit anyone or anything but your own ego).
>
> You voted wrong in the election of Nov. 2, of that I have no doubt.

Supposition. You don't know how I voted. For your info, Bush is a lot more
"friendly" to Canada regarding soft-wood lumber and other trade issues than
Kerry. You want to tell us again how you imagine I voted??


> That is what comes of not having your head screwed on straight.

I check myself in the mirror every morning. I'm as "straight" as they come.


> Kerry would cut the Islamic extremists some slack, maybe even cutting and
> running from Iraq; Bush won't do that.

Of course not... That would mean Bush has to admit to making a huge mistake
involoving American troops in another "Vietnam"... How many innocent
Iraqi's are being maimed and killed in this latest round of aggression??


> That is how you make a difference in the world, not by giving to Amnesty
> International.

Sure... blow up a few more kids and moms. That'll really help control the
spread of Terrorism.


> Only hypocritical liberals do things like that in order to salve their
> guilty consciences.

Nope. You've got it all wrong. "Hypocritical liberals" are very similar to
"hypocritical Republicans". They sit on their fat cans all day in front of
a computer monitor and bemoan the state of the world to any that will
listen. Why aren't you over there cheering on our brave men??


> If you gave a damn about the evil in the world being caused by Islamic
> extremists, you would have voted for Bush.

If you give a damn about the evils of Terrorism, you'd be "over there"
fighting, not "over here" moaning.


> But you don't, and so you didn't.

Sure Ed... Sure...