Is George W. Bush the worst US president ever?
- Thread starter Wurm
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Again davidmc, that all sounds like great workers of the world unite stuff but it really has no relevance to current economic conditions. The fact that Bill Gates is worth an obscene amount of money doesn't necessarily mean that everyone else employed at Microsoft is working for substandard pay. Generally speaking, your employers at your big blue chip corporations are making a pretty good buck.davidmc said:The obscene CEO/Worker wage disparity is indicative of Enron, WorldCom, HealthSouth, ect...CEO's &/or Robber Baron's believing that they have no allegiance, whatsoever, to the people who made thier success possible. I just read "The Social Contract", by Rousseau. I highly recommend it. Rome suffered from reckless, overindulgence before it's eventual demise. No wonder the CEO's don't have any patriotism, they'd just as soon send their dirty money "off shore" & have thier product made in sweatshops w/o labor laws. Incidentally, CAFTA just passed the house, w/ an overwhelming Republican majority, shafting the American worker once more, for good measure. There were only 3 dissenting votes. Both sides of the aisle are culpable
As for Rome, there were a lot of things that contributed to its downfall, overindulgence was probably low on the totem pole of factors. As for CAFTA or NAFTA, free trade is what makes the world go round and protectionism simply doesn't work. Never has and never will.
Interesting. I'm wondering why he thinks selling his home which was paid off is going to help him in any way with the coming economic apocolypse. Then again, is this any different than when Greenspan was runnintg the show during the Clinton administration? He was doing quite a bit of the same thing and no one was forecasting disaster then. Actually, I take that back, Greenspan did warn of the irrational exhuberance of the stock market didn't he?Wurm said:
Every time you Bush lovers get backed into a corner about your hero's crimes and malfeasances, you revert to the stale "bash Clinton" rhetoric.Billy Fish said:
The U.S. economy was in infinitely better condition for the last half of Clinton's era than it is today, and there was a pretty sizeable budget surplus then as well.
I wouldn't use Clinton's economy and Bush's in the same breath if I were you.
You conveniently picked a well managed co. to further your arguument. How many buisinessmen give away 8 billion dollars to a foundationBilly Fish said:
Not many. It still stands that ceo/worker pay is at @300-350/1 (extrememly higher for other companies). This is unparalelled in American history. I worked for a company that had a self-imposed cieling pay for ceo's not to go above a certain ratio."Executive compensation has soared over the last twenty-five years, especially in the 1990s. In contrast, the typical worker’s wage fell in the early 1990s and rose from the mid-1990s until the recent recession. From 1989 to 2000, the compensation of the average chief executive officer
grew 342%. CEO compensation was lower in 2003 than in 2000, yet CEOs in major companies still earned 185 times more than the average worker, up from 71 times in 1989. This rising extravagance of executive pay is a distinctly American phenomenon: U.S. CEOs make about three times as much as their counterparts abroad.
CEO Pay & CEO-Worker Ratios
CEOs at the median and the 25th and 75th percentiles saw increases in
compensation (16.1% at the median) from 2000 to 2003. From 1992 (the first
year of data for all but the average CEO) to 2003, the median CEO received an 80.8% raise. In contrast, the median workers’ hourly wage rose 8.7%. In 1965, it took a CEO two weeks to earn a worker’s annual pay. The ratio of CEO to worker compensation tumbled from 2000 to 2002 as CEO compensation fell, then rose to 185 in 2003, a lower ratio than at the 2000 peak (300) but still far higher than the pay gap between CEOs and average workers that prevailed in the mid-1960s (24) or late 1970s (35)."
Protectionism worked for along time, up until the 20th cen., in this country
"Free trade" makes the world go round for the large corp's that want a "free ride". In 48 hours last week, Congress gave massive tax breaks to Exxon, the most profitable company in history (in the energy bill). It passed a measure that will outsource American jobs and cut wages (the "CAFTA" free trade bill), and increased spending by more than $370 billion (both of those plus the highway bill). Even for this Congress it was jaw-dropping.Billy Fish said:
You know BF, I don't think you know much about what you're saying, but just regurgitating what you've been told to believe by the 'Cons.
Billy Fish said:
I think I have found the answer he could convert USD generated by his house sale into Gold. Under the Bush Reign of Terror, Gold has appreciated by 33% in USD, there is no indication that the trend is abating either. Gold prices are often used as an indicator of the health of a currency, rapid sustained price rises indicate a sick currency.
Billy Fish said:
Naw, Greenspan has had far less room to manouvre under Bush because of the massive pressure placed on the USD by the Bush administration's policies. That is on the back of a market valuation bubble being pricked by the 9/11 attacks. Not an easy time for Greenspan, he has done his best stop the USD nose-diving by flat out lying about the state of the economy on occasion though.
China seem to have timed their move to an unspecified basket of currencies very well. Plus it gives them more "manipulative" power than ever before, I suspect that the folks crying foul over the pegged Yuan will be crying louder when the Chinese expoit their new found exchange rate freedom.
"Under the Bush Reign of Terror...."
The next thing we'll see is dissenters such as DaveMc and Wurm being given numbers and thrown into Gulags on bread and water.
And just because they doubt Bush's status as having been chosen by the AlMighty.
The next thing we'll see is dissenters such as DaveMc and Wurm being given numbers and thrown into Gulags on bread and water.
And just because they doubt Bush's status as having been chosen by the AlMighty.
darkboong said:
That will never happen for me - I'll go out in a "blaze of glory" and take as many with me as possible before I'd submit to the Bushtapo "Homeland Security" abduction and torture.Carrera said:"Under the Bush Reign of Terror...."
The next thing we'll see is dissenters such as DaveMc and Wurm being given numbers and thrown into Gulags on bread and water.
And just because they doubt Bush's status as having been chosen by the AlMighty.
ah, a fellow national rifle association card carrying life member, perhaps?
fighting for freedom, democracy, liberty, patriotism, human rights, accountability of those at the top, goverment of the people by the people, and the inherently unlawful taxation without representation that finances these wars and unlawful practices.
loyalty to bush is contrary to loyalty to the above principles.
has carerra perhaps not heard of the "enemy combatant" avoidance of law that keeps suspects in custody without due process?
this does not get much press in the sanitized fit for tv commercial press...
yet a true patriot would seek accurate sources, avail themselves of the truth, thus pulling their head out of the, er, sand, and not feeling compelled to show their ignorance here.
"it can't happen here" -paraprahrasing of cold war sloganeering cited in musical interlude by
Frank Zappa
fighting for freedom, democracy, liberty, patriotism, human rights, accountability of those at the top, goverment of the people by the people, and the inherently unlawful taxation without representation that finances these wars and unlawful practices.
loyalty to bush is contrary to loyalty to the above principles.
has carerra perhaps not heard of the "enemy combatant" avoidance of law that keeps suspects in custody without due process?
this does not get much press in the sanitized fit for tv commercial press...
yet a true patriot would seek accurate sources, avail themselves of the truth, thus pulling their head out of the, er, sand, and not feeling compelled to show their ignorance here.
"it can't happen here" -paraprahrasing of cold war sloganeering cited in musical interlude by
Frank Zappa
Wurm said:
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