Has anyone tried the Bigha?

[Edward Dolan]

"Larry Varney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Edward Dolan wrote:
[...]
> > When it comes to bikes, it is all about price and weight. You food
analogy
> > is all wrong. Taste becomes a very important consideration when it comes
to
> > food. I am not into bike components. Basically a bike is a frame and two
> > wheels. With a recumbent, the design (configuration) of the bike is also
> > very important. Everything else is Mickey Mouse. I leave it to Lorenzo
to
> > ask the critical question - and we all know by now what that question
is!
> >
>
> When it comes to bikes, when it comes to almost *anything* - there
> are seldom so few criteria that need to be considered. Weight is not the
> only thing that determines the value - that should be obvious to anyone.
> You mentioned design. That is one critiera. Components are another.
> History of the company, as pointed out by Mr. Love, is yet another.
> Appearance, too, is a criteria that many use, though it is very
> subjective. How the bike is sold (through dealers or only direct from
> the factory), followup service, manuals and documentation - the list
> goes on and on
> These are all criteria in determining the worth of a bike. Anyone
> should be able to see that weight alone will not tell you if it's worth
> the money or not.

Weight and price are the two most critical considerations for me when it
comes getting a bike. The reason weight is so important is that it is a
measure by which many other aspects of the bike quality is determined.
However, I think you may well be right that price and weight are not the
most important considerations for most others. I am always amazed at what
others take into consideration when it comes to spending their hard earned
money. I am out of the main stream I must admit.

If the Bigha were around $1500. to $2000. I could see it as something that
SOME would consider, but $3000. is beyond all reason.We all have to draw the
line somewhere. Even if I had money to burn, I would not spend $3000. for a
Bigha!

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Mark Leuck]

"Larry Varney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:%[email protected]...
> >
>
> I'm glad to see that you're bringing other criteria into the
> discussion - it's not just a matter of weight/price. And yes, if there
> are bikes that are similar, to one degree or another, which are
> significantly cheaper - that's something else to consider.
> --
> Larry Varney
> Cold Spring, KY
> http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

The interesting thing is so far out of maybe 6 reviews of the BigHa I've
seen I have yet to see a bad one. They do say it's a heavy and expensive
bike but overall a good ride

 

[Melinda Meahan - remove TRASH to reply]

Mark Leuck wrote:

> The interesting thing is so far out of maybe 6 reviews of the BigHa I've
> seen I have yet to see a bad one. They do say it's a heavy and expensive
> bike but overall a good ride

Maybe because the people who think it's too expensive don't buy it and
therefore can't review it?

--
Where no oxen are, the crib is clean,
But much benefit is derived from the labor of the ox.

 

[Slugger]

In article <[email protected]>, Edward Dolan
<[email protected]> wrote:

> "Slugger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:060620041511553426%[email protected]...
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > Sticker Jim <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > If he had of simply typed "bigha review" in any search engine, he
> wouldn't
> > > have needed to make the initial post either
> > >
> > > "Randy Rhine" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Slugger wrote:
> > > > > In article <[email protected]>, Zach
> > > > > Kaplan Cycles <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >>For a detailed review of it you might want to read my article on it
> in
> > > > >>Recumbent Cyclist News #80 (January-February 2004 issue).
> > > > >>
> > > > >>Zach Kaplan
> > > > >
> > > > > got a link for that?
> > > >
> > > > Why do people ask for a link when all they gotta do is use a search
> > > engine?
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > uh huh..so what is the point of usenet?
> [...]
>
> That is a most excellent question Slugger. As a professional university
> research librarian I can tell you that there are very few who know how to
> find their way around a great research library containing millions of
> documents. Even Ph.D. scholars can easily get lost in the complexities of
> finding their way through a great research library. That is why there are
> librarians with Master's degrees to help with the process.
>
> However, computers make all of this a no brainer. You can now do a search as
> easily as any Ph.D. scholar. I think newsgroups (usenet) are basically for
> chatter. We humans are like monkeys and we like to chatter to one another.
> That is why I post the way I do. I am not enamored of the informational
> aspects of newsgroups. It seems to me newsgroups are primarily for social
> intercourse. Those who use newsgroups for strictly informational purposes
> are totally missing the boat. Newsgroups are for human intercourse pure and
> simple. That is why I never stay strictly on-topic. That is for ignoramuses
> and fools. I want to entertain and amuse my fellow human beings. If only
> they would reciprocate!

Ok, i'll go bury my literal ass in the sand then! :cD
Yeah i guess i like and dislike a number of things about the bike.
First off, consumers are price sensitive. I am a consumer.
Second..the weight. Who doesn't want a lighter bike. I do.
Those are the two minuses that come to mind.
On the other side there is the geometry. I feel this is a really nice
comprimise for a 'bent between torque, aerodynamics and visibility for
both the rider and other drivers. My biggest fear is having my
shoulders restricted from the seat back so that i can't turn my head
enough for a good look behind me..i realize i can get mirrors but i
feel more comfortable seeing the driver in the eyes when he smokes me.
Which brings me to the other thing i really like about this bike. The
seat looks to be excellent. And so should it as i read they spent half
a million designing the saddle alone. What i like about it is the back
rest is tapered and allows for more movement in the upper body when
looking over your shoulder.

On that note what is a comparable bike for half the price with disc
brakes and semi good components?

 

[Edward Dolan]

"Slugger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:080620042339505088%[email protected]...
[...]
> Yeah i guess i like and dislike a number of things about the bike.
> First off, consumers are price sensitive. I am a consumer.
> Second..the weight. Who doesn't want a lighter bike. I do.
> Those are the two minuses that come to mind.
> On the other side there is the geometry. I feel this is a really nice
> comprimise for a 'bent between torque, aerodynamics and visibility for
> both the rider and other drivers. My biggest fear is having my
> shoulders restricted from the seat back so that i can't turn my head
> enough for a good look behind me..i realize i can get mirrors but i
> feel more comfortable seeing the driver in the eyes when he smokes me.
> Which brings me to the other thing i really like about this bike. The
> seat looks to be excellent. And so should it as i read they spent half
> a million designing the saddle alone. What i like about it is the back
> rest is tapered and allows for more movement in the upper body when
> looking over your shoulder.
>
> On that note what is a comparable bike for half the price with disc
> brakes and semi good components?

Here is the most important previous message in this thread which bears on
your concerns which you should carefully consider because it was written by
someone (Mark Stonich) who knows what he is talking about (unlike most of
the rest of us here):

Slugger <[email protected]> wrote in message
> It seems heavy and with a heavy pricetag but the geometry looks to be
> perfection.

"Not enough tiller, not enough fork rake, seat too high, seatback so
vertical that recumbutt is guaranteed. Other than that, perfect."

Mr. Stonich knows his way around these design and configuration problems and
if I were you I would pay heed to what he says. Why learn everything the
hard way?

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[skip]

"Slugger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:080620042339505088%[email protected]...
> Ok, i'll go bury my literal ass in the sand then! :cD
> Yeah i guess i like and dislike a number of things about the bike.
> First off, consumers are price sensitive. I am a consumer.
> Second..the weight. Who doesn't want a lighter bike. I do.
> Those are the two minuses that come to mind.
> On the other side there is the geometry. I feel this is a really nice
> comprimise for a 'bent between torque, aerodynamics and visibility for
> both the rider and other drivers. My biggest fear is having my
> shoulders restricted from the seat back so that i can't turn my head
> enough for a good look behind me..i realize i can get mirrors but i
> feel more comfortable seeing the driver in the eyes when he smokes me.
> Which brings me to the other thing i really like about this bike. The
> seat looks to be excellent. And so should it as i read they spent half
> a million designing the saddle alone. What i like about it is the back
> rest is tapered and allows for more movement in the upper body when
> looking over your shoulder.
>
> On that note what is a comparable bike for half the price with disc
> brakes and semi good components?

Slugger go buy yourself a RANS Tailwind - put a disc brake on it if you
must - invest the additional two thousand dollars you would have spent on a
BiGHA in a few good solid stocks. In five years you will be glad you did.
Trust me on this.

skip

 

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Mark Leuck wrote:
> "Larry Varney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:%[email protected]...
>
>> I'm glad to see that you're bringing other criteria into the
>>discussion - it's not just a matter of weight/price. And yes, if there
>>are bikes that are similar, to one degree or another, which are
>>significantly cheaper - that's something else to consider.
>>--
>>Larry Varney
>>Cold Spring, KY
>>http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney
>
>
> The interesting thing is so far out of maybe 6 reviews of the BigHa I've
> seen I have yet to see a bad one. They do say it's a heavy and expensive
> bike but overall a good ride
>
>

And of those six reviews, how many of the reviewers liked it so well
that they were willing to pay $3000 of their own money for it? If they
send me one, I'll probably say good things about it too. Send me almost
anything free and I'll probably say something good about it. When you
get a review product for free, price goes out of the equation. But for
consumers who actually have to pay for a product, price is always a
prime factor. Unless the consumer is so wealthy that money is
meaningless. Is that your case?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"If you would know the value of money, go and try to borrow some."
Benjamin Franklin

 

[Mark Leuck]

"Lorenzo L. Love" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >
> > The interesting thing is so far out of maybe 6 reviews of the BigHa I've
> > seen I have yet to see a bad one. They do say it's a heavy and expensive
> > bike but overall a good ride
> >
> >
>
> And of those six reviews, how many of the reviewers liked it so well
> that they were willing to pay $3000 of their own money for it? If they
> send me one, I'll probably say good things about it too. Send me almost
> anything free and I'll probably say something good about it. When you
> get a review product for free, price goes out of the equation. But for
> consumers who actually have to pay for a product, price is always a
> prime factor. Unless the consumer is so wealthy that money is
> meaningless. Is that your case?

While I'm not wealthy I could indeed buy one. While price IS a factor it is
just one of many otherwise we'd all be riding the cheapest bike available

 

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Mark Leuck wrote:

> "Lorenzo L. Love" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>>The interesting thing is so far out of maybe 6 reviews of the BigHa I've
>>>seen I have yet to see a bad one. They do say it's a heavy and expensive
>>>bike but overall a good ride
>>>
>>>
>>
>>And of those six reviews, how many of the reviewers liked it so well
>>that they were willing to pay $3000 of their own money for it? If they
>>send me one, I'll probably say good things about it too. Send me almost
>>anything free and I'll probably say something good about it. When you
>>get a review product for free, price goes out of the equation. But for
>>consumers who actually have to pay for a product, price is always a
>>prime factor. Unless the consumer is so wealthy that money is
>>meaningless. Is that your case?
>
>
> While I'm not wealthy I could indeed buy one. While price IS a factor it is
> just one of many otherwise we'd all be riding the cheapest bike available
>
>

So have you ordered it yet? When is it due to be delivered?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand

 

[Larry Varney]

Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
> Mark Leuck wrote:
>
>> "Larry Varney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:%[email protected]...
>>
>>> I'm glad to see that you're bringing other criteria into the
>>> discussion - it's not just a matter of weight/price. And yes, if there
>>> are bikes that are similar, to one degree or another, which are
>>> significantly cheaper - that's something else to consider.
>>> --
>>> Larry Varney
>>> Cold Spring, KY
>>> http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney
>>
>>
>>
>> The interesting thing is so far out of maybe 6 reviews of the BigHa I've
>> seen I have yet to see a bad one. They do say it's a heavy and expensive
>> bike but overall a good ride
>>
>>
>
> And of those six reviews, how many of the reviewers liked it so well
> that they were willing to pay $3000 of their own money for it? If they
> send me one, I'll probably say good things about it too. Send me almost
> anything free and I'll probably say something good about it. When you
> get a review product for free, price goes out of the equation. But for
> consumers who actually have to pay for a product, price is always a
> prime factor. Unless the consumer is so wealthy that money is
> meaningless. Is that your case?
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> "If you would know the value of money, go and try to borrow some."
> Benjamin Franklin
>

You should realize that review bikes and trikes, while often provided
by the manufacturer for "free", they are to be returned - they're not
gifts.
If you read the reviews of this particular bike and others, you'll
see that "free" or not, good things and bad are mentioned. Since it's
not theirs to keep, there is no "deal" made to insure nothing but good
things be said about it. And you've probably blown your chance of ever
getting a review bike from BiGHA or anyone else - your credibility is
blown by your own admission:
"If they send me one, I'll probably say good things about it too. Send
me almost anything free and I'll probably say something good about it."

One thing people don't seem to realize, is that the most honest
evaluations come from those who *didn't* pay their own money for
something. If they did, they have a psychological reason to justify the
purchase. How many people will admit that they've bought a piece of
****, that their judgement is worse than faulty, that they shouldn't be
trusted to order lunch, much less a bike that costs thousands of dollars?
Price is a prime factor in any purchase - no one has said it isn't.
It's just that it's not the only factor. Just as weight isn't the only
criteria to judge worth, neither is price.

--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

 

[Tom Sherman]

Mark Leuck wrote:

> ...
> I would not buy one ONLY because I prefer low riders not because of the
> price....

Optima will come and confiscate your Baron if you refer to it as a "low
rider" instead of using the proper term "lowracer."

--
Tom Sherman – Quad City Area

 

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Larry Varney wrote:

> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>
>> Mark Leuck wrote:
>>
>>> "Larry Varney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:%[email protected]...
>>>
>>>> I'm glad to see that you're bringing other criteria into the
>>>> discussion - it's not just a matter of weight/price. And yes, if there
>>>> are bikes that are similar, to one degree or another, which are
>>>> significantly cheaper - that's something else to consider.
>>>> --
>>>> Larry Varney
>>>> Cold Spring, KY
>>>> http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The interesting thing is so far out of maybe 6 reviews of the BigHa I've
>>> seen I have yet to see a bad one. They do say it's a heavy and expensive
>>> bike but overall a good ride
>>>
>>>
>>
>> And of those six reviews, how many of the reviewers liked it so well
>> that they were willing to pay $3000 of their own money for it? If they
>> send me one, I'll probably say good things about it too. Send me
>> almost anything free and I'll probably say something good about it.
>> When you get a review product for free, price goes out of the
>> equation. But for consumers who actually have to pay for a product,
>> price is always a prime factor. Unless the consumer is so wealthy that
>> money is meaningless. Is that your case?
>>
>> Lorenzo L. Love
>> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>
>> "If you would know the value of money, go and try to borrow some."
>> Benjamin Franklin
>>
>
> You should realize that review bikes and trikes, while often provided
> by the manufacturer for "free", they are to be returned - they're not
> gifts.
> If you read the reviews of this particular bike and others, you'll see
> that "free" or not, good things and bad are mentioned. Since it's not
> theirs to keep, there is no "deal" made to insure nothing but good
> things be said about it. And you've probably blown your chance of ever
> getting a review bike from BiGHA or anyone else - your credibility is
> blown by your own admission:
> "If they send me one, I'll probably say good things about it too. Send
> me almost anything free and I'll probably say something good about it."
>
> One thing people don't seem to realize, is that the most honest
> evaluations come from those who *didn't* pay their own money for
> something. If they did, they have a psychological reason to justify the
> purchase. How many people will admit that they've bought a piece of
> ****, that their judgement is worse than faulty, that they shouldn't be
> trusted to order lunch, much less a bike that costs thousands of dollars?
> Price is a prime factor in any purchase - no one has said it isn't.
> It's just that it's not the only factor. Just as weight isn't the only
> criteria to judge worth, neither is price.
>

Sure, that's why Consumer Reports only pays full retail for the products
they review. Anyone who's livelihood depends on free review products,
whether on loan or otherwise, has to be very careful not to be too
critical or he won't get any more free review products. I'll ask again:
Of those six reviews, how many of the reviewers liked it so well that
they were willing to pay $3000 of their own money for it? No one? Gee,
what a surprise!

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"You can fool half of the people all of the time and that's enough to
make a good living."
W.C. Fields

 

[Slugger]

In article <[email protected]>, skip
<[email protected]> wrote:


>
> Slugger go buy yourself a RANS Tailwind - put a disc brake on it if you
> must - invest the additional two thousand dollars you would have spent on a
> BiGHA in a few good solid stocks. In five years you will be glad you did.
> Trust me on this.
>
> skip
>
>
Skip the tailwind is on my radar for sure. Already have some solid
stocks, hopefully they will go on a run soon.

 

[Mark Leuck]

"Lorenzo L. Love" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >
>
> Sure, that's why Consumer Reports only pays full retail for the products
> they review.
> Anyone who's livelihood depends on free review products,
> whether on loan or otherwise, has to be very careful not to be too
> critical or he won't get any more free review products.

That can happen no matter if the product is free or paid for, I've seen it
many times just about any product. If a company does this that's a company
to avoid. Are you saying the reviews out there aren't being critical enough?
If so which reviews?

Also BigHa has sent out review products to several bent specific
publications (who were impressed with it) so I seriously doubt they are
afraid of the recumbent crowd. Here's someone who bought one

http://www.bradandkathy.com/

> I'll ask again:
> Of those six reviews, how many of the reviewers liked it so well that
> they were willing to pay $3000 of their own money for it? No one? Gee,
> what a surprise!

I can think of a few hundred reviews of recumbents where they didn't buy or
say they would buy the bike they were reviewing. Your statement is
meaningless

Would you spend more than $3000 for a Segway? No but many have

 

[Curtis L. Russell]

On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 05:33:00 GMT, "Lorenzo L. Love"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Sure, that's why Consumer Reports only pays full retail for the products
>they review. Anyone who's livelihood depends on free review products,
>whether on loan or otherwise, has to be very careful not to be too
>critical or he won't get any more free review products. I'll ask again:
>Of those six reviews, how many of the reviewers liked it so well that
>they were willing to pay $3000 of their own money for it? No one? Gee,
>what a surprise!

And you're not picking up a difference between Consumer Reports paying
for a product and the reviewer paying for the product? Are you really
confusing the situation where a organization that makes its money from
the process of reviewing products pays for items to avoid the
appearance of conflict with a situation where your choices are either
reviews by owners or organizations that cannot afford to pay for every
item reviewed?

Until Consumers Union decides to focus on recumbent bicycles, you
aren't going to get what you appear to be asking for.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

 

[Larry Varney]

Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
> Larry Varney wrote:
>
>> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>>
>>> Mark Leuck wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Larry Varney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:%[email protected]...
>>>>
>>>>> I'm glad to see that you're bringing other criteria into the
>>>>> discussion - it's not just a matter of weight/price. And yes, if there
>>>>> are bikes that are similar, to one degree or another, which are
>>>>> significantly cheaper - that's something else to consider.
>>>>> --
>>>>> Larry Varney
>>>>> Cold Spring, KY
>>>>> http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The interesting thing is so far out of maybe 6 reviews of the BigHa
>>>> I've
>>>> seen I have yet to see a bad one. They do say it's a heavy and
>>>> expensive
>>>> bike but overall a good ride
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> And of those six reviews, how many of the reviewers liked it so well
>>> that they were willing to pay $3000 of their own money for it? If
>>> they send me one, I'll probably say good things about it too. Send me
>>> almost anything free and I'll probably say something good about it.
>>> When you get a review product for free, price goes out of the
>>> equation. But for consumers who actually have to pay for a product,
>>> price is always a prime factor. Unless the consumer is so wealthy
>>> that money is meaningless. Is that your case?
>>>
>>> Lorenzo L. Love
>>> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>>
>>> "If you would know the value of money, go and try to borrow some."
>>> Benjamin Franklin
>>>
>>
>> You should realize that review bikes and trikes, while often
>> provided by the manufacturer for "free", they are to be returned -
>> they're not gifts.
>> If you read the reviews of this particular bike and others, you'll
>> see that "free" or not, good things and bad are mentioned. Since it's
>> not theirs to keep, there is no "deal" made to insure nothing but good
>> things be said about it. And you've probably blown your chance of ever
>> getting a review bike from BiGHA or anyone else - your credibility is
>> blown by your own admission:
>> "If they send me one, I'll probably say good things about it too. Send
>> me almost anything free and I'll probably say something good about it."
>>
>> One thing people don't seem to realize, is that the most honest
>> evaluations come from those who *didn't* pay their own money for
>> something. If they did, they have a psychological reason to justify
>> the purchase. How many people will admit that they've bought a piece
>> of ****, that their judgement is worse than faulty, that they
>> shouldn't be trusted to order lunch, much less a bike that costs
>> thousands of dollars?
>> Price is a prime factor in any purchase - no one has said it isn't.
>> It's just that it's not the only factor. Just as weight isn't the only
>> criteria to judge worth, neither is price.
>>
>
> Sure, that's why Consumer Reports only pays full retail for the products
> they review. Anyone who's livelihood depends on free review products,
> whether on loan or otherwise, has to be very careful not to be too
> critical or he won't get any more free review products. I'll ask again:
> Of those six reviews, how many of the reviewers liked it so well that
> they were willing to pay $3000 of their own money for it? No one? Gee,
> what a surprise!
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>

Sure, and all of those magazines that have reviewed the BiGHA have
the funding of Consumer Reports. Anyone whose livelihood depends on his
readership believing in his honesty, has to be fair in his evaluations
of the products reviewed. They can get all the "free" stuff they want -
and have to give back - but if the readers stop reading, guess what?
And you keep asking that question - have you asked the reviewers? No?
Is it because you don't actually require an answer? Gee, what a surprise!


--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

 

[Edward Dolan]

"Slugger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:090620042300418296%[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, skip
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Slugger go buy yourself a RANS Tailwind - put a disc brake on it if you
> > must - invest the additional two thousand dollars you would have spent
on a
> > BiGHA in a few good solid stocks. In five years you will be glad you
did.
> > Trust me on this.
> >
> > skip
> >
> >
> Skip the tailwind is on my radar for sure. Already have some solid
> stocks, hopefully they will go on a run soon.

The RANS Tailwind is the most underrated recumbent out there. My only caveat
is that if you are near 6 feet tall you might want to avoid it as it is not
really designed for someone of that height. It will put too much weight on
the rear of the bike. RANS should really make a larger size for us 6
footers. I have an early version of the Tailwind however and it almost fits
me although there is still a bit too much weight on the rear of the bike.

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Mark Leuck wrote:
> "Lorenzo L. Love" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Sure, that's why Consumer Reports only pays full retail for the products
>>they review.
>>Anyone who's livelihood depends on free review products,
>>whether on loan or otherwise, has to be very careful not to be too
>>critical or he won't get any more free review products.
>
>
> That can happen no matter if the product is free or paid for, I've seen it
> many times just about any product. If a company does this that's a company
> to avoid. Are you saying the reviews out there aren't being critical enough?
> If so which reviews?
>
> Also BigHa has sent out review products to several bent specific
> publications (who were impressed with it) so I seriously doubt they are
> afraid of the recumbent crowd. Here's someone who bought one
>
> http://www.bradandkathy.com/
>
>
>>I'll ask again:
>>Of those six reviews, how many of the reviewers liked it so well that
>>they were willing to pay $3000 of their own money for it? No one? Gee,
>>what a surprise!
>
>
> I can think of a few hundred reviews of recumbents where they didn't buy or
> say they would buy the bike they were reviewing. Your statement is
> meaningless
>
> Would you spend more than $3000 for a Segway? No but many have
>
>
>

He's not a reviwer, just a guy who hasn't rode a bike since he was in
collage and never a recumbent, just the type Bigha is targeting.

Speaking of meaningless, yesterday you wrote:
"While I'm not wealthy I could indeed buy one. While price IS a factor
it is just one of many otherwise we'd all be riding the cheapest bike
available."

You never answered if you have ordered it yet.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand

 

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Larry Varney wrote:
> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>
>> Larry Varney wrote:
>>
>>> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>>>
>>>> Mark Leuck wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Larry Varney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>> news:%[email protected]...
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm glad to see that you're bringing other criteria into the
>>>>>> discussion - it's not just a matter of weight/price. And yes, if
>>>>>> there
>>>>>> are bikes that are similar, to one degree or another, which are
>>>>>> significantly cheaper - that's something else to consider.
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Larry Varney
>>>>>> Cold Spring, KY
>>>>>> http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The interesting thing is so far out of maybe 6 reviews of the BigHa
>>>>> I've
>>>>> seen I have yet to see a bad one. They do say it's a heavy and
>>>>> expensive
>>>>> bike but overall a good ride
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And of those six reviews, how many of the reviewers liked it so well
>>>> that they were willing to pay $3000 of their own money for it? If
>>>> they send me one, I'll probably say good things about it too. Send
>>>> me almost anything free and I'll probably say something good about
>>>> it. When you get a review product for free, price goes out of the
>>>> equation. But for consumers who actually have to pay for a product,
>>>> price is always a prime factor. Unless the consumer is so wealthy
>>>> that money is meaningless. Is that your case?
>>>>
>>>> Lorenzo L. Love
>>>> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>>>
>>>> "If you would know the value of money, go and try to borrow some."
>>>> Benjamin Franklin
>>>>
>>>
>>> You should realize that review bikes and trikes, while often
>>> provided by the manufacturer for "free", they are to be returned -
>>> they're not gifts.
>>> If you read the reviews of this particular bike and others, you'll
>>> see that "free" or not, good things and bad are mentioned. Since it's
>>> not theirs to keep, there is no "deal" made to insure nothing but
>>> good things be said about it. And you've probably blown your chance
>>> of ever getting a review bike from BiGHA or anyone else - your
>>> credibility is blown by your own admission:
>>> "If they send me one, I'll probably say good things about it too.
>>> Send me almost anything free and I'll probably say something good
>>> about it."
>>>
>>> One thing people don't seem to realize, is that the most honest
>>> evaluations come from those who *didn't* pay their own money for
>>> something. If they did, they have a psychological reason to justify
>>> the purchase. How many people will admit that they've bought a piece
>>> of ****, that their judgement is worse than faulty, that they
>>> shouldn't be trusted to order lunch, much less a bike that costs
>>> thousands of dollars?
>>> Price is a prime factor in any purchase - no one has said it isn't.
>>> It's just that it's not the only factor. Just as weight isn't the
>>> only criteria to judge worth, neither is price.
>>>
>>
>> Sure, that's why Consumer Reports only pays full retail for the
>> products they review. Anyone who's livelihood depends on free review
>> products, whether on loan or otherwise, has to be very careful not to
>> be too critical or he won't get any more free review products. I'll
>> ask again: Of those six reviews, how many of the reviewers liked it so
>> well that they were willing to pay $3000 of their own money for it? No
>> one? Gee, what a surprise!
>>
>> Lorenzo L. Love
>> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>
>
> Sure, and all of those magazines that have reviewed the BiGHA have the
> funding of Consumer Reports. Anyone whose livelihood depends on his
> readership believing in his honesty, has to be fair in his evaluations
> of the products reviewed. They can get all the "free" stuff they want -
> and have to give back - but if the readers stop reading, guess what?
> And you keep asking that question - have you asked the reviewers? No?
> Is it because you don't actually require an answer? Gee, what a surprise!
>
>

Haven't you been paying attention? The question to all reviewers: Has
any one of them liked the Bigha so much that they paid $3000 for one of
their own? So far, zero. Positive reviews but not a single one thought
it was worth their own money. That tells me a lot.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand

 

[Larry Varney]

Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
> Mark Leuck wrote:
<snip>
>> I can think of a few hundred reviews of recumbents where they didn't
>> buy or
>> say they would buy the bike they were reviewing. Your statement is
>> meaningless
>>
>> Would you spend more than $3000 for a Segway? No but many have
>>
>>
>>
>
> He's not a reviwer, just a guy who hasn't rode a bike since he was in
> collage and never a recumbent, just the type Bigha is targeting.
>
> Speaking of meaningless, yesterday you wrote:
> "While I'm not wealthy I could indeed buy one. While price IS a factor
> it is just one of many otherwise we'd all be riding the cheapest bike
> available."
>
> You never answered if you have ordered it yet.
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>

Didn't you understand what he wrote? It seems pretty simple. He says
that he isn't wealthy, but he could afford a BigHA. He says that price
is a factor, but there are many others. He contends that if it were the
only factor, then we'd all be riding the cheapest bikes available.
Myself, I find it a real puzzler why you keep carrying on about this
one particular bike. It can't be just the price, as there are many that
cost more. It can't be just the weight, because there are many that
weigh more. So what is it? Is it really the simplistic weight/price
ratio, that seemingly ignores any other factors? Sure, there is one guy
on this list who claims that these are the only factors in choosing a
bike, but no one really takes him seriously on this.
And you keep demanding of everyone that either they join you on your
jihad against BigHA, or explain why they haven't purchased the bike. So,
fair's fair, I guess:
What bikes did you order yesterday? What bikes did you not order? And
why not?
We'll be waiting for your answers, and the reasons behind those answers.

--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney