Has anyone tried the Bigha?



"Melinda Meahan - remove TRASH to reply" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
> Mark Leuck wrote:
>
> > Although I have no interest in the bike I'm not so sure it IS overpriced
> > considering all the gadgets it has on it, Today I was in a Dallas bike
shop
> > and plenty of bikes were on display with higher price tages than the
BigHa
> > and in some casesI saw nothing exotic about them. I paid $2800 for an
Optima
> > Baron, was it overpriced? Some would say yes but I didn't think so, it
was
> > well worth it to me
>
> Well, Giant's semirecumbent (?Revive?) is much lower-priced and has
> similar features, I think. I would certainly recommend someone check it
> out before the BigHA.

Does anyone know tho how well it sells? Much of the hubub about BigHa
centers around certain people thinking it will be a flop in the marketplace
when actually nobody knows what the sale figure of the bike is, same with
the Revive, sure you see it in a lot of places but is it selling? Making a
profit for Giant? We don't know that either, in fact we usually don't know
any sales figures unless the company discontinues the product (Trek) or they
go out of business (BikeE/Vision)

The problem here is too many people talk without knowing much about the
subject :)
 
>
> Add 15 pounds to an Optima Baron and it still weighs less then a Bigha.
>
> The Tour Easy is a tried and true design that the market has supported,
> very well for a generation. Who supports the Bigha in the marketplace?
> Not you. Not me. Even though I like that class of bikes I wouldn't buy
> one because it costs an outrageous amount compared to similar bikes. You
> wouldn't buy one even though you can find no fault with either cost or
> weight. From this sample of the marketplace, it's not doing so well.
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> "Americans are broad-minded people. They'll accept the fact that a
> person can be an alcoholic, a dope fiend, a wife beater, and even a
> newspaperman, but if a man doesn't drive there's something wrong with him."
> Art Buchwald

I'm sure this won't change your opinion of Bigha's value, but you can
now buy the bike for $2500 without the electronics. And they have
financing - or at least they did last time I checked, but I can't find
the info today.

I've seen two (different colors) Bighas here in La Jolla. From the
sample of my marketplace, they seem to be doing OK.
 
"Hashim El Amin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >
> > Add 15 pounds to an Optima Baron and it still weighs less then a Bigha.
> >
> > The Tour Easy is a tried and true design that the market has supported,
> > very well for a generation. Who supports the Bigha in the marketplace?
> > Not you. Not me. Even though I like that class of bikes I wouldn't buy
> > one because it costs an outrageous amount compared to similar bikes. You
> > wouldn't buy one even though you can find no fault with either cost or
> > weight. From this sample of the marketplace, it's not doing so well.
> >
> > Lorenzo L. Love
> > http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
> >
> > "Americans are broad-minded people. They'll accept the fact that a
> > person can be an alcoholic, a dope fiend, a wife beater, and even a
> > newspaperman, but if a man doesn't drive there's something wrong with
him."
> > Art Buchwald
>
> I'm sure this won't change your opinion of Bigha's value, but you can
> now buy the bike for $2500 without the electronics. And they have
> financing - or at least they did last time I checked, but I can't find
> the info today.
>
> I've seen two (different colors) Bighas here in La Jolla. From the
> sample of my marketplace, they seem to be doing OK.

Are you saying people have bought them then? Lorenzo would have a heart
attack if that were true :)
 
"Mark Leuck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:VZcxc.19462$Sw.12636@attbi_s51...
>
> "Hashim El Amin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
[...]
> > I've seen two (different colors) Bighas here in La Jolla. From the
> > sample of my marketplace, they seem to be doing OK.
>
> Are you saying people have bought them then? Lorenzo would have a heart
> attack if that were true :)

There is no one on this newsgroup I enjoy reading more than Lorenzo. He is
single minded and has the tenacity of a mad dog. We could all learn from him
how to focus and how to concentrate our thoughts and how to press an
argument. He is the master, we are the students.

Although he thinks I am an idiot (he has said so in a previous post) I have
decided not to tangle with him just yet as I do agree with him about the
outrageous price of the Bigha.

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
"Slugger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:060620041511553426%[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Sticker Jim <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > If he had of simply typed "bigha review" in any search engine, he
wouldn't
> > have needed to make the initial post either :)
> >
> > "Randy Rhine" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > >
> > > Slugger wrote:
> > > > In article <[email protected]>, Zach
> > > > Kaplan Cycles <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>For a detailed review of it you might want to read my article on it
in
> > > >>Recumbent Cyclist News #80 (January-February 2004 issue).
> > > >>
> > > >>Zach Kaplan
> > > >
> > > > got a link for that?
> > >
> > > Why do people ask for a link when all they gotta do is use a search
> > engine?
> > >
> >
> >
> uh huh..so what is the point of usenet?
[...]

That is a most excellent question Slugger. As a professional university
research librarian I can tell you that there are very few who know how to
find their way around a great research library containing millions of
documents. Even Ph.D. scholars can easily get lost in the complexities of
finding their way through a great research library. That is why there are
librarians with Master's degrees to help with the process.

However, computers make all of this a no brainer. You can now do a search as
easily as any Ph.D. scholar. I think newsgroups (usenet) are basically for
chatter. We humans are like monkeys and we like to chatter to one another.
That is why I post the way I do. I am not enamored of the informational
aspects of newsgroups. It seems to me newsgroups are primarily for social
intercourse. Those who use newsgroups for strictly informational purposes
are totally missing the boat. Newsgroups are for human intercourse pure and
simple. That is why I never stay strictly on-topic. That is for ignoramuses
and fools. I want to entertain and amuse my fellow human beings. If only
they would reciprocate!

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
Edward Dolan wrote:
> "Mark Leuck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:VZcxc.19462$Sw.12636@attbi_s51...
>
>>"Hashim El Amin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>
> [...]
>
>>>I've seen two (different colors) Bighas here in La Jolla. From the
>>>sample of my marketplace, they seem to be doing OK.
>>
>>Are you saying people have bought them then? Lorenzo would have a heart
>>attack if that were true :)
>
>
> There is no one on this newsgroup I enjoy reading more than Lorenzo. He is
> single minded and has the tenacity of a mad dog. We could all learn from him
> how to focus and how to concentrate our thoughts and how to press an
> argument. He is the master, we are the students.
>
> Although he thinks I am an idiot (he has said so in a previous post) I have
> decided not to tangle with him just yet as I do agree with him about the
> outrageous price of the Bigha.
>

Idiot, imbecile, moron, fool, something in that general family. If
anyone paid $3000 for a Bigha, it just shows that you are not alone.
Since Bigha is targeting as their customers people who know next to
nothing about bicycling in general and incumbents in particular, it's
not surprising that they can find someone with more money then sense.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"Let us be thankful for the fools; but for them the rest of us could not
succeed.”
Mark Twain
 
"Lorenzo L. Love" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Edward Dolan wrote:
[...]
> > There is no one on this newsgroup I enjoy reading more than Lorenzo. He
is
> > single minded and has the tenacity of a mad dog. We could all learn from
him
> > how to focus and how to concentrate our thoughts and how to press an
> > argument. He is the master, we are the students.
> >
> > Although he thinks I am an idiot (he has said so in a previous post) I
have
> > decided not to tangle with him just yet as I do agree with him about the
> > outrageous price of the Bigha.
> >
>
> Idiot, imbecile, moron, fool, something in that general family. If
> anyone paid $3000 for a Bigha, it just shows that you are not alone.
> Since Bigha is targeting as their customers people who know next to
> nothing about bicycling in general and recumbents in particular, it's
> not surprising that they can find someone with more money then sense.
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> "Let us be thankful for the fools; but for them the rest of us could not
> succeed.”
> Mark Twain

I couldn't have said that better myself! Have I at long last found a kindred
spirit?

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
Lorenzo L. Love wrote:

<snip>
>
> Idiot, imbecile, moron, fool, something in that general family. If
> anyone paid $3000 for a Bigha, it just shows that you are not alone.
> Since Bigha is targeting as their customers people who know next to
> nothing about bicycling in general and incumbents in particular, it's
> not surprising that they can find someone with more money then sense.
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>

Have you seen or ridden a BiGHA yet? Or are your opinions still based
on just two things - the weight and price? Are those two criteria all
that matter? Are they valid criteria for everything, for all bikes, for
cars, dogs, sandwiches?
Let's look at it this way. When you go into a restaurant, do you look
at just the price and weight of the menu items? Do you feel that
someone who, for instance, buys a filet mignon, which weighs quite a
bit less and costs quite a bit more, than other cuts of meat - do you
feel that this person is an "idiot, imbecile, moron, fool, something in
that general family"? If not, why not?
Could it be that there are other criteria that may be involved when
picking out some food item? And couldn't it also be possible that there
are other criteria that are involved when picking out a bike?
Oh, one thing: if and when you respond to this post, will you answer
the questions I have asked, or will you instead ask me if I have
bought, or plan to buy, a BiGHA?
Anyone laying odds?
 
"Larry Varney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>
> <snip>
> >
> > Idiot, imbecile, moron, fool, something in that general family. If
> > anyone paid $3000 for a Bigha, it just shows that you are not alone.
> > Since Bigha is targeting as their customers people who know next to
> > nothing about bicycling in general and incumbents in particular, it's
> > not surprising that they can find someone with more money then sense.
> >
> > Lorenzo L. Love
> > http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
> >
>
> Have you seen or ridden a BiGHA yet? Or are your opinions still based
> on just two things - the weight and price? Are those two criteria all
> that matter? Are they valid criteria for everything, for all bikes, for
> cars, dogs, sandwiches?
> Let's look at it this way. When you go into a restaurant, do you look
> at just the price and weight of the menu items? Do you feel that
> someone who, for instance, buys a filet mignon, which weighs quite a
> bit less and costs quite a bit more, than other cuts of meat - do you
> feel that this person is an "idiot, imbecile, moron, fool, something in
> that general family"? If not, why not?

The steak must be garbage because its large and expensive :)
 
"Larry Varney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>
> <snip>
> >
> > Idiot, imbecile, moron, fool, something in that general family. If
> > anyone paid $3000 for a Bigha, it just shows that you are not alone.
> > Since Bigha is targeting as their customers people who know next to
> > nothing about bicycling in general and incumbents in particular, it's
> > not surprising that they can find someone with more money then sense.
> >
> > Lorenzo L. Love
> > http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
> >
>
> Have you seen or ridden a BiGHA yet? Or are your opinions still based
> on just two things - the weight and price? Are those two criteria all
> that matter? Are they valid criteria for everything, for all bikes, for
> cars, dogs, sandwiches?
> Let's look at it this way. When you go into a restaurant, do you look
> at just the price and weight of the menu items? Do you feel that
> someone who, for instance, buys a filet mignon, which weighs quite a
> bit less and costs quite a bit more, than other cuts of meat - do you
> feel that this person is an "idiot, imbecile, moron, fool, something in
> that general family"? If not, why not?
> Could it be that there are other criteria that may be involved when
> picking out some food item? And couldn't it also be possible that there
> are other criteria that are involved when picking out a bike?

Mr. Varney! The price of the Bigha is so far out of line that you would have
to be crazy as a loon to pay that much for it. The manufacturer ought to be
charged with highway robbery. Lorenzo said it best. But thank God for all
the fools in the world as it makes it that much easier on the rest of us who
are not fools.

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
Edward Dolan wrote:
> "Larry Varney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>>
>><snip>
>>
>>>Idiot, imbecile, moron, fool, something in that general family. If
>>>anyone paid $3000 for a Bigha, it just shows that you are not alone.
>>>Since Bigha is targeting as their customers people who know next to
>>>nothing about bicycling in general and incumbents in particular, it's
>>>not surprising that they can find someone with more money then sense.
>>>
>>>Lorenzo L. Love
>>>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>>
>>
>> Have you seen or ridden a BiGHA yet? Or are your opinions still based
>>on just two things - the weight and price? Are those two criteria all
>>that matter? Are they valid criteria for everything, for all bikes, for
>>cars, dogs, sandwiches?
>> Let's look at it this way. When you go into a restaurant, do you look
>>at just the price and weight of the menu items? Do you feel that
>>someone who, for instance, buys a filet mignon, which weighs quite a
>>bit less and costs quite a bit more, than other cuts of meat - do you
>>feel that this person is an "idiot, imbecile, moron, fool, something in
>>that general family"? If not, why not?
>> Could it be that there are other criteria that may be involved when
>>picking out some food item? And couldn't it also be possible that there
>>are other criteria that are involved when picking out a bike?
>
>
> Mr. Varney! The price of the Bigha is so far out of line that you would have
> to be crazy as a loon to pay that much for it. The manufacturer ought to be
> charged with highway robbery. Lorenzo said it best. But thank God for all
> the fools in the world as it makes it that much easier on the rest of us who
> are not fools.
>

There are more expensive bikes out there, aren't they? So it can't be
just the price that you're complaining about, right? What other criteria
are you using, to judge it as being "so far out of line"?
And have you ever seen or ridden a BiGHA?

--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney
 
"Larry Varney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Edward Dolan wrote:
> > "Larry Varney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >
> >>Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
> >>
> >><snip>
> >>
> >>>Idiot, imbecile, moron, fool, something in that general family. If
> >>>anyone paid $3000 for a Bigha, it just shows that you are not alone.
> >>>Since Bigha is targeting as their customers people who know next to
> >>>nothing about bicycling in general and incumbents in particular, it's
> >>>not surprising that they can find someone with more money then sense.
> >>>
> >>>Lorenzo L. Love
> >>>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
> >>>
> >>
> >> Have you seen or ridden a BiGHA yet? Or are your opinions still based
> >>on just two things - the weight and price? Are those two criteria all
> >>that matter? Are they valid criteria for everything, for all bikes, for
> >>cars, dogs, sandwiches?
> >> Let's look at it this way. When you go into a restaurant, do you look
> >>at just the price and weight of the menu items? Do you feel that
> >>someone who, for instance, buys a filet mignon, which weighs quite a
> >>bit less and costs quite a bit more, than other cuts of meat - do you
> >>feel that this person is an "idiot, imbecile, moron, fool, something in
> >>that general family"? If not, why not?
> >> Could it be that there are other criteria that may be involved when
> >>picking out some food item? And couldn't it also be possible that there
> >>are other criteria that are involved when picking out a bike?
> >
> >
> > Mr. Varney! The price of the Bigha is so far out of line that you would
have
> > to be crazy as a loon to pay that much for it. The manufacturer ought to
be
> > charged with highway robbery. Lorenzo said it best. But thank God for
all
> > the fools in the world as it makes it that much easier on the rest of us
who
> > are not fools.
> >
>
> There are more expensive bikes out there, aren't they? So it can't be
> just the price that you're complaining about, right? What other criteria
> are you using, to judge it as being "so far out of line"?
> And have you ever seen or ridden a BiGHA?

Well, I have seen it (pictures), but no, I have not ridden it. But how
necessary can that be? It is possible to judge something based on price
alone believe it or not. I do it all the time with respect to almost
everything under the sun. Are you a millionaire who never has to consider
the price of anything? I guess if I am going to pay a premium price for a
bicycle, it had better well be damned light weight!

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
Larry Varney wrote:

> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>>Idiot, imbecile, moron, fool, something in that general family. If
>>anyone paid $3000 for a Bigha, it just shows that you are not alone.
>>Since Bigha is targeting as their customers people who know next to
>>nothing about bicycling in general and incumbents in particular, it's
>>not surprising that they can find someone with more money then sense.
>>
>>Lorenzo L. Love
>>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>
>
>
> Have you seen or ridden a BiGHA yet? Or are your opinions still based
> on just two things - the weight and price? Are those two criteria all
> that matter? Are they valid criteria for everything, for all bikes, for
> cars, dogs, sandwiches?
> Let's look at it this way. When you go into a restaurant, do you look
> at just the price and weight of the menu items? Do you feel that
> someone who, for instance, buys a filet mignon, which weighs quite a
> bit less and costs quite a bit more, than other cuts of meat - do you
> feel that this person is an "idiot, imbecile, moron, fool, something in
> that general family"? If not, why not?
> Could it be that there are other criteria that may be involved when
> picking out some food item? And couldn't it also be possible that there
> are other criteria that are involved when picking out a bike?
> Oh, one thing: if and when you respond to this post, will you answer
> the questions I have asked, or will you instead ask me if I have
> bought, or plan to buy, a BiGHA?
> Anyone laying odds?
>

What matters is that you or I could buy a similar bike for one half to
one quarter of the Bigha's price. Would you pay two to four times as
much as you needed to? No, because (I assume) you are not a idiot,
imbecile, moron, fool or something in that general family. But go ahead
and prove me wrong. And there are other criteria involved in picking a
bike, the reputation and integrity of the company. What kind of
reputation and integrity do the former BikeE owners who now run Bigha
have? There are reasons Bigha is not marketing through recumbent
dealers. One reason is that after being betrayed by these same people,
the dealers do not trust them not to walk away when the going gets
tough, again leaving the dealers in the lurch. Another reason is that
the people who patronize recumbent dealers are too informed and educated
about recumbents to spend two to four times as much as they need to.
Hence Bigha's policy of targeting people who know nothing about recumbents.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"There was a time when a fool and his money were soon parted, but now it
happens to everybody."
Adlai E. Stevenson
 
"Lorenzo L. Love" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>> >
>
> What matters is that you or I could buy a similar bike for one half to
> one quarter of the Bigha's price.

The key word is "could", I "could" have purchased a BikeE but instead I
purchased a Vision at double the price. I "liked" it better.

> Would you pay two to four times as
> much as you needed to?

The key word is "needed". I don't know anyone who needs to buy a recumbent,
instead they choose to.

> No, because (I assume) you are not a idiot,
> imbecile, moron, fool or something in that general family. But go ahead
> and prove me wrong.

He cannot prove someone is a not an idiot, imbecil, moron or fool any more
than you can prove they are. It's a matter of opinion. An opinion that
sometimes is wrong

> And there are other criteria involved in picking a
> bike, the reputation and integrity of the company. What kind of
> reputation and integrity do the former BikeE owners who now run Bigha
> have? There are reasons Bigha is not marketing through recumbent
> dealers. One reason is that after being betrayed by these same people,
> the dealers do not trust them not to walk away when the going gets
> tough, again leaving the dealers in the lurch.

And now we know the real reason you are against BigHa, its not the bike it's
the company, fair enough however people bought BikeE's because they liked
the bike not because they knew anything about the company. Hell I know
nothing about Optima, if they went belly-up and some former employees
started another company I would consider buying a bike from them as long as
it's one I LIKE. Vision is now gone and if they went the same way as BigHa
in starting back up again I'd consider buying a bike from them (assuming I
didn't have the Baron) because I LIKE the bike. BTW: I knew NOTHING about
Vision's financial health until they were pretty much gone.

It appears that according to your website you own at least 4 bikes, did you
really know anything about the reputation and integrity of each company that
made them? I doubt it. How many people here really REALLY know the health of
the company that made their bikes? How many care beyond the usual "Oh gosh
sad to see them go..." after they are gone.

> Another reason is that
> the people who patronize recumbent dealers are too informed and educated
> about recumbents to spend two to four times as much as they need to.
> Hence Bigha's policy of targeting people who know nothing about
recumbents.

Around the Dallas/Ft Worth area its mostly Easy Racers, a few Visions and
lots of BikeE's and I'll bet a paycheck they know NOTHING about the company
who made the bike or care. Aside from the people here and myself I've yet to
find ANYONE who knows any more about the bike they ride than someone with a
DF type bike. Around here they bought the bike because

A: It was different (my reason too)
B: They were overweight and didn't want the small seat a standard bike uses
(my reason too)
C: They liked the look (my reason too)

Thats the typical customer no matter the product, they are nothing like
anyone in this newsgroup
 
Edward Dolan wrote:
> "Larry Varney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Edward Dolan wrote:
>>
>>>"Larry Varney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>>>>
>>>><snip>
>>>>
>>>>>Idiot, imbecile, moron, fool, something in that general family. If
>>>>>anyone paid $3000 for a Bigha, it just shows that you are not alone.
>>>>>Since Bigha is targeting as their customers people who know next to
>>>>>nothing about bicycling in general and incumbents in particular, it's
>>>>>not surprising that they can find someone with more money then sense.
>>>>>
>>>>>Lorenzo L. Love
>>>>>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Have you seen or ridden a BiGHA yet? Or are your opinions still based
>>>>on just two things - the weight and price? Are those two criteria all
>>>>that matter? Are they valid criteria for everything, for all bikes, for
>>>>cars, dogs, sandwiches?
>>>> Let's look at it this way. When you go into a restaurant, do you look
>>>>at just the price and weight of the menu items? Do you feel that
>>>>someone who, for instance, buys a filet mignon, which weighs quite a
>>>>bit less and costs quite a bit more, than other cuts of meat - do you
>>>>feel that this person is an "idiot, imbecile, moron, fool, something in
>>>>that general family"? If not, why not?
>>>> Could it be that there are other criteria that may be involved when
>>>>picking out some food item? And couldn't it also be possible that there
>>>>are other criteria that are involved when picking out a bike?
>>>
>>>
>>>Mr. Varney! The price of the Bigha is so far out of line that you would
>
> have
>
>>>to be crazy as a loon to pay that much for it. The manufacturer ought to
>
> be
>
>>>charged with highway robbery. Lorenzo said it best. But thank God for
>
> all
>
>>>the fools in the world as it makes it that much easier on the rest of us
>
> who
>
>>>are not fools.
>>>
>>
>> There are more expensive bikes out there, aren't they? So it can't be
>>just the price that you're complaining about, right? What other criteria
>>are you using, to judge it as being "so far out of line"?
>> And have you ever seen or ridden a BiGHA?
>
>
> Well, I have seen it (pictures), but no, I have not ridden it. But how
> necessary can that be? It is possible to judge something based on price
> alone believe it or not. I do it all the time with respect to almost
> everything under the sun. Are you a millionaire who never has to consider
> the price of anything? I guess if I am going to pay a premium price for a
> bicycle, it had better well be damned light weight!
>

Yes, it is possible to judge something based on price alone. But to
be logical about it, would you not then condemn all bikes that cost the
same or more than the BiGHA?
But I do see that you're bringing weight into the matter. Right? Is
that he only criteria that you use to determine the value of a bike -
the weight? Do you do this with food as well? When you go into a
restaurant, do you buy strictly on a weight/price criteria? Is the best
thing on the menu - in your opinion - simply a matter of how much per
ounce are you paying?
To put it simply, for many people there are more criteria in
determining the worth of something, other than just its weight. There
are others. Can you think of some?

--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney
 
Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
> Larry Varney wrote:
>
>> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> Idiot, imbecile, moron, fool, something in that general family. If
>>> anyone paid $3000 for a Bigha, it just shows that you are not alone.
>>> Since Bigha is targeting as their customers people who know next to
>>> nothing about bicycling in general and incumbents in particular, it's
>>> not surprising that they can find someone with more money then sense.
>>>
>>> Lorenzo L. Love
>>> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>>
>>
>>
>> Have you seen or ridden a BiGHA yet? Or are your opinions still based
>> on just two things - the weight and price? Are those two criteria all
>> that matter? Are they valid criteria for everything, for all bikes, for
>> cars, dogs, sandwiches?
>> Let's look at it this way. When you go into a restaurant, do you look
>> at just the price and weight of the menu items? Do you feel that
>> someone who, for instance, buys a filet mignon, which weighs quite a
>> bit less and costs quite a bit more, than other cuts of meat - do you
>> feel that this person is an "idiot, imbecile, moron, fool, something in
>> that general family"? If not, why not?
>> Could it be that there are other criteria that may be involved when
>> picking out some food item? And couldn't it also be possible that there
>> are other criteria that are involved when picking out a bike?
>> Oh, one thing: if and when you respond to this post, will you answer
>> the questions I have asked, or will you instead ask me if I have
>> bought, or plan to buy, a BiGHA?
>> Anyone laying odds?
>>
>
> What matters is that you or I could buy a similar bike for one half to
> one quarter of the Bigha's price. Would you pay two to four times as
> much as you needed to? No, because (I assume) you are not a idiot,
> imbecile, moron, fool or something in that general family. But go ahead
> and prove me wrong. And there are other criteria involved in picking a
> bike, the reputation and integrity of the company. What kind of
> reputation and integrity do the former BikeE owners who now run Bigha
> have? There are reasons Bigha is not marketing through recumbent
> dealers. One reason is that after being betrayed by these same people,
> the dealers do not trust them not to walk away when the going gets
> tough, again leaving the dealers in the lurch. Another reason is that
> the people who patronize recumbent dealers are too informed and educated
> about recumbents to spend two to four times as much as they need to.
> Hence Bigha's policy of targeting people who know nothing about recumbents.
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>

I'm glad to see that you're bringing other criteria into the
discussion - it's not just a matter of weight/price. And yes, if there
are bikes that are similar, to one degree or another, which are
significantly cheaper - that's something else to consider.
--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney
 
"Larry Varney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Edward Dolan wrote:
> > "Larry Varney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
[...]
> >> There are more expensive bikes out there, aren't they? So it can't be
> >>just the price that you're complaining about, right? What other criteria
> >>are you using, to judge it as being "so far out of line"?
> >> And have you ever seen or ridden a BiGHA?
> >
> >
> > Well, I have seen it (pictures), but no, I have not ridden it. But how
> > necessary can that be? It is possible to judge something based on price
> > alone believe it or not. I do it all the time with respect to almost
> > everything under the sun. Are you a millionaire who never has to
consider
> > the price of anything? I guess if I am going to pay a premium price for
a
> > bicycle, it had better well be damned light weight!
> >
>
> Yes, it is possible to judge something based on price alone. But to
> be logical about it, would you not then condemn all bikes that cost the
> same or more than the BiGHA?
> But I do see that you're bringing weight into the matter. Right? Is
> that he only criteria that you use to determine the value of a bike -
> the weight? Do you do this with food as well? When you go into a
> restaurant, do you buy strictly on a weight/price criteria? Is the best
> thing on the menu - in your opinion - simply a matter of how much per
> ounce are you paying?
> To put it simply, for many people there are more criteria in
> determining the worth of something, other than just its weight. There
> are others. Can you think of some?

When it comes to bikes, it is all about price and weight. You food analogy
is all wrong. Taste becomes a very important consideration when it comes to
food. I am not into bike components. Basically a bike is a frame and two
wheels. With a recumbent, the design (configuration) of the bike is also
very important. Everything else is Mickey Mouse. I leave it to Lorenzo to
ask the critical question - and we all know by now what that question is!

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
"Mark Leuck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:f2uxc.5814$0y.5495@attbi_s03...
>
> "Lorenzo L. Love" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >> >
> >
> > What matters is that you or I could buy a similar bike for one half to
> > one quarter of the Bigha's price.
>
> The key word is "could", I "could" have purchased a BikeE but instead I
> purchased a Vision at double the price. I "liked" it better.
>
> > Would you pay two to four times as
> > much as you needed to?
>
> The key word is "needed". I don't know anyone who needs to buy a
recumbent,
> instead they choose to.
>
> > No, because (I assume) you are not a idiot,
> > imbecile, moron, fool or something in that general family. But go ahead
> > and prove me wrong.
>
> He cannot prove someone is a not an idiot, imbecil, moron or fool any more
> than you can prove they are. It's a matter of opinion. An opinion that
> sometimes is wrong
>
> > And there are other criteria involved in picking a
> > bike, the reputation and integrity of the company. What kind of
> > reputation and integrity do the former BikeE owners who now run Bigha
> > have? There are reasons Bigha is not marketing through recumbent
> > dealers. One reason is that after being betrayed by these same people,
> > the dealers do not trust them not to walk away when the going gets
> > tough, again leaving the dealers in the lurch.
>
> And now we know the real reason you are against BigHa, its not the bike
it's
> the company, fair enough however people bought BikeE's because they liked
> the bike not because they knew anything about the company. Hell I know
> nothing about Optima, if they went belly-up and some former employees
> started another company I would consider buying a bike from them as long
as
> it's one I LIKE. Vision is now gone and if they went the same way as BigHa
> in starting back up again I'd consider buying a bike from them (assuming I
> didn't have the Baron) because I LIKE the bike. BTW: I knew NOTHING about
> Vision's financial health until they were pretty much gone.
>
> It appears that according to your website you own at least 4 bikes, did
you
> really know anything about the reputation and integrity of each company
that
> made them? I doubt it. How many people here really REALLY know the health
of
> the company that made their bikes? How many care beyond the usual "Oh gosh
> sad to see them go..." after they are gone.
>
> > Another reason is that
> > the people who patronize recumbent dealers are too informed and educated
> > about recumbents to spend two to four times as much as they need to.
> > Hence Bigha's policy of targeting people who know nothing about
> recumbents.
>
> Around the Dallas/Ft Worth area its mostly Easy Racers, a few Visions and
> lots of BikeE's and I'll bet a paycheck they know NOTHING about the
company
> who made the bike or care. Aside from the people here and myself I've yet
to
> find ANYONE who knows any more about the bike they ride than someone with
a
> DF type bike. Around here they bought the bike because
>
> A: It was different (my reason too)
> B: They were overweight and didn't want the small seat a standard bike
uses
> (my reason too)
> C: They liked the look (my reason too)
>
> Thats the typical customer no matter the product, they are nothing like
> anyone in this newsgroup

An excellent post Mark. Unlike Lorenzo, I don't give a damn about the
companies that make any of this recumbent stuff. I will buy on the basis of
perceived value. For me the Bigha is outrageously over priced. Price always
matters the most to me. It is really the most important consideration when
it comes to buying something that I don't really need (like a recumbent
bicycle). Most people fall into my category of consumer and that is the
reason why Wal-Mart is so successful. I really envy folks who will buy a
Bigha and think they have gotten good value for their money. I wish I could
be that naive and foolish.

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
Edward Dolan wrote:
> "Larry Varney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Edward Dolan wrote:
>>
>>>"Larry Varney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected]...
>
> [...]
>
>>>> There are more expensive bikes out there, aren't they? So it can't be
>>>>just the price that you're complaining about, right? What other criteria
>>>>are you using, to judge it as being "so far out of line"?
>>>> And have you ever seen or ridden a BiGHA?
>>>
>>>
>>>Well, I have seen it (pictures), but no, I have not ridden it. But how
>>>necessary can that be? It is possible to judge something based on price
>>>alone believe it or not. I do it all the time with respect to almost
>>>everything under the sun. Are you a millionaire who never has to
>
> consider
>
>>>the price of anything? I guess if I am going to pay a premium price for
>
> a
>
>>>bicycle, it had better well be damned light weight!
>>>
>>
>> Yes, it is possible to judge something based on price alone. But to
>>be logical about it, would you not then condemn all bikes that cost the
>>same or more than the BiGHA?
>> But I do see that you're bringing weight into the matter. Right? Is
>>that he only criteria that you use to determine the value of a bike -
>>the weight? Do you do this with food as well? When you go into a
>>restaurant, do you buy strictly on a weight/price criteria? Is the best
>>thing on the menu - in your opinion - simply a matter of how much per
>>ounce are you paying?
>> To put it simply, for many people there are more criteria in
>>determining the worth of something, other than just its weight. There
>>are others. Can you think of some?
>
>
> When it comes to bikes, it is all about price and weight. You food analogy
> is all wrong. Taste becomes a very important consideration when it comes to
> food. I am not into bike components. Basically a bike is a frame and two
> wheels. With a recumbent, the design (configuration) of the bike is also
> very important. Everything else is Mickey Mouse. I leave it to Lorenzo to
> ask the critical question - and we all know by now what that question is!
>

When it comes to bikes, when it comes to almost *anything* - there
are seldom so few criteria that need to be considered. Weight is not the
only thing that determines the value - that should be obvious to anyone.
You mentioned design. That is one critiera. Components are another.
History of the company, as pointed out by Mr. Love, is yet another.
Appearance, too, is a criteria that many use, though it is very
subjective. How the bike is sold (through dealers or only direct from
the factory), followup service, manuals and documentation - the list
goes on and on
These are all criteria in determining the worth of a bike. Anyone
should be able to see that weight alone will not tell you if it's worth
the money or not.

--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney
 
Mark Leuck wrote:

> "Lorenzo L. Love" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>What matters is that you or I could buy a similar bike for one half to
>>one quarter of the Bigha's price.
>
>
> The key word is "could", I "could" have purchased a BikeE but instead I
> purchased a Vision at double the price. I "liked" it better.
>
>
>>Would you pay two to four times as
>>much as you needed to?
>
>
> The key word is "needed". I don't know anyone who needs to buy a recumbent,
> instead they choose to.
>
>
>>No, because (I assume) you are not a idiot,
>>imbecile, moron, fool or something in that general family. But go ahead
>>and prove me wrong.
>
>
> He cannot prove someone is a not an idiot, imbecil, moron or fool any more
> than you can prove they are. It's a matter of opinion. An opinion that
> sometimes is wrong
>
>
>>And there are other criteria involved in picking a
>>bike, the reputation and integrity of the company. What kind of
>>reputation and integrity do the former BikeE owners who now run Bigha
>>have? There are reasons Bigha is not marketing through recumbent
>>dealers. One reason is that after being betrayed by these same people,
>>the dealers do not trust them not to walk away when the going gets
>>tough, again leaving the dealers in the lurch.
>
>
> And now we know the real reason you are against BigHa, its not the bike it's
> the company, fair enough however people bought BikeE's because they liked
> the bike not because they knew anything about the company. Hell I know
> nothing about Optima, if they went belly-up and some former employees
> started another company I would consider buying a bike from them as long as
> it's one I LIKE. Vision is now gone and if they went the same way as BigHa
> in starting back up again I'd consider buying a bike from them (assuming I
> didn't have the Baron) because I LIKE the bike. BTW: I knew NOTHING about
> Vision's financial health until they were pretty much gone.
>
> It appears that according to your website you own at least 4 bikes, did you
> really know anything about the reputation and integrity of each company that
> made them? I doubt it. How many people here really REALLY know the health of
> the company that made their bikes? How many care beyond the usual "Oh gosh
> sad to see them go..." after they are gone.
>
>
>>Another reason is that
>>the people who patronize recumbent dealers are too informed and educated
>>about recumbents to spend two to four times as much as they need to.
>>Hence Bigha's policy of targeting people who know nothing about
>
> recumbents.
>
> Around the Dallas/Ft Worth area its mostly Easy Racers, a few Visions and
> lots of BikeE's and I'll bet a paycheck they know NOTHING about the company
> who made the bike or care. Aside from the people here and myself I've yet to
> find ANYONE who knows any more about the bike they ride than someone with a
> DF type bike. Around here they bought the bike because
>
> A: It was different (my reason too)
> B: They were overweight and didn't want the small seat a standard bike uses
> (my reason too)
> C: They liked the look (my reason too)
>
> Thats the typical customer no matter the product, they are nothing like
> anyone in this newsgroup
>

I and most people assume that a company or a person is honest and
reliable... until they get screwed over by that company or person. If
you buy a product from a group of people who abandon their company,
abandon their product support, abandon their warranties, leave dealers
hanging with orders unfilled and lie to you as they do all this... are
you going to buy again from this same group of people operating under a
new name? It's said that the definition of insanity is doing the same
thing over and over and expecting different outcomes.

Maybe you as so rich that you can afford to pay two to four times the
competitive price for a product from a group of people known to be
unreliable, but most of the rest of us are not. If you are, I got a
bridge for sale.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"One reason that the ignorant also tend to be the blissfully
self-assured, the researchers believe, is that the skills required for
competence often are the same skills necessary to recognize competence."
Erica Goode
 
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