Discovery in disarray.... ?

[limerickman]

LA has never been demonstrated to have failed an EPO test, as we all know.

.

He failed six separate eEPO tests in 1999 TDF.

He was also found to have failed tests for cortiscoids in 2000 TDF.

 

[limerickman]

It's a name, which implies much but proves nothing. I am not stating Armstrong never doped. I am taking issue with WBT's statement. With Armstrong as with any other rider, I object to using questionable evidence to establish fact. If he wants to claim he thinks Armstrong doped because of those 1999 samples, that's fine. But don't state it as a fact, because it's no more a fact that to claim Ullrich has been proven to be a doper because someone wrote "Son of Rudy" in a notebook.

What PED test has Ullrich failed?
I haven't read/heard of any samples indicting Ullrich.

6 separate samples indict Armstrong.

 

[cPritch67]

Would you realistically expect anything different though? Armstrong made USPS/Discovery what they were...he apparently held it all together and kept everyone motivated (especially in retrospect). He was obviously a very strong leader.

They differ from a lot of teams in that there was ONE real goal of the team, support Armstrong to win the TdF. Now it's up to someone there (or not there yet) to assert themselves to take over that role unless they change their main goals. Obviously it has not happened at this tour.

As such, would you not expect it to fall apart somewhat? How well did the Bulls do right after Jordan left (as an example)? To me, it seems only natural for it to take a season (or even two) before the team gets its identity back and everyone pulling on the rope again. They obviously have some good talent (at least for now), we'll have to see what they do with it over time.

For the most part, I agree with your statements. What is frustrating, is that this was an opportunity for several individuals to step up and fill that role - not with the talk but with the legs.....and no one has. Even as a fan of Disco, I have to question who showed up to ride the biggest Grand Tour, there is no one even close to being consistent. The only reason Popo won a stage was because he was 30 minutes down and allowed to go in a break. Did any of their riders plan on "peaking" for this event - it sure hasn't shown. It's rather embarrassing.
Also, what about on the final climbs when there are many teams with multiple riders and DC is lucky to have one. Dissarray is being polite, disaster is more like it.

 

[Mansmind]

For the most part, I agree with your statements. What is frustrating, is that this was an opportunity for several individuals to step up and fill that role - not with the talk but with the legs.....and no one has. Even as a fan of Disco, I have to question who showed up to ride the biggest Grand Tour, there is no one even close to being consistent. The only reason Popo won a stage was because he was 30 minutes down and allowed to go in a break. Did any of their riders plan on "peaking" for this event - it sure hasn't shown. It's rather embarrassing.
Also, what about on the final climbs when there are many teams with multiple riders and DC is lucky to have one. Dissarray is being polite, disaster is more like it.

I do agree with what you're saying. It's apparent (at least right now) that the new leader either "isn't there" and definitely if he is.. "hasn't stepped up". Popo may be too young still? (don't know, just a thought). Hincapie certainly isn't, and hasn't ridden to his own level vs. last year for the most part.

I brought it up a few days ago, and not many agreed, but I really wonder if the team was as motivated in training this year vs. riding with Lance. Didn't Lance go scout the mountains/train on them with the team? I wonder if any of the current "team" had that level of commitment to winning? Perhaps...that is why they are seemingly so unprepared this year. (unless you want to wave the doping flag)

Lance was suprememly committed to winning (even his haters would agree I think). I wonder if they pushed themselves after his absence as much as he pushed them before? Just looking at the results, it doesn't appear so.

 

[Mansmind]

What PED test has Ullrich failed?
I haven't read/heard of any samples indicting Ullrich.

6 separate samples indict Armstrong.

We don't KNOW those samples indict Armstrong either. I'd LIKE to know, but unfortunately the whole issue around those samples seems to have disappeared. Certainly that fact in itself makes it very suspicious, but I don't think we're at a place we can call it fact. As suspicious as those results are.. there's also enough unanswered questions on the other side of the fence.

I, for one, would still like to know those answers.

 

[JohnO]

Still trotting out that tired old dog?

Ullrich did fail a PED test, in 2002. It was a legal test, in full observation of all protocols, and led to his (temporary) departure from T-Mobile.

What PED test has Ullrich failed?
I haven't read/heard of any samples indicting Ullrich.

6 separate samples indict Armstrong.

 

[JRMDC]

Still trotting out that tired old dog?

Ullrich did fail a PED test, in 2002. It was a legal test, in full observation of all protocols, and led to his (temporary) departure from T-Mobile.

Oh, c'mon! JU was just havin' a litte fun, a little "ecstacy," not trying to improve his performance!

 

[Mansmind]

Oh, c'mon! JU was just havin' a litte fun, a little "ecstacy," not trying to improve his performance!

..at least bike performance..lol Maybe he was trying to get through some of his personal inhibitions

 

[Bro Deal]

Ullrich did fail a PED test, in 2002.

Ecstasy is not a PED. Ullrich was not racing at the time; he took the season off for knee surgery. Armstrong's retroactive urine tests shows he was taking EPO throughout the 1999 Tour.

 

[Lonnie Utah]

Ecstasy is not a PED.

Well, at least not for cycling.....

L

 

[Bro Deal]

Well, at least not for cycling.....

True.

 

[limerickman]

WBT called it correctly when he created this thread.

DC are well and truly sliced and diced.
It's hard to imagine a worse season for them.
They're diabolical.
Their perforamances this season, except for Hoste, have been woeful.

 

[Capt.Injury]

WBT called it correctly when he created this thread.

DC are well and truly sliced and diced.
It's hard to imagine a worse season for them.
They're diabolical.
Their perforamances this season, except for Hoste, have been woeful.

And To Think, they have done everything possible to not let Hoste do anything.

Well Ill let everyone give there opinion, since we all agree Discovery is having a bad season, what would your strategy would be for next year for them. Who would you sign? Who would you use as designated leader (s) for the CLassics? Each Tour? Would you focus on all the races, or focus on the 1-week races? Grand Tours? I would like to see serious response, just to see how all of our opinion vary. Especially be interesting to get limerick, huskey, cyclingheros (especially since he is usually right there at the races he can tell us maybe a darkhorse rider that will breakout next year).

 

[JohnO]

Oh, c'mon! JU was just havin' a litte fun, a little "ecstacy," not trying to improve his performance!

I know, and he was probably trying to impress some little groupie at a bar. Not that I haven't done the same, with different substances...

But if people are going to indict Armstrong based on rumor, I felt compelled to point out that Jan was legally busted.

As for the merits of ecstacy as a PED... it might help you for an hour or two. At the very least, you'd suffer with a smile.

 

[whiteboytrash]

Has anyone noted that when Armstrong turned up to the Giro DC had a disaster day in the TTT after winning the prologue then things went real bad for the team… Now at the Tour Hnicapie holds the yellow for a day then Armstrong rocks up and the entire team capitulate into nothingness…. What is he saying to the team ? Perhaps he should stay away ?

 

[limerickman]

And To Think, they have done everything possible to not let Hoste do anything.

Well Ill let everyone give there opinion, since we all agree Discovery is having a bad season, what would your strategy would be for next year for them. Who would you sign? Who would you use as designated leader (s) for the CLassics? Each Tour? Would you focus on all the races, or focus on the 1-week races? Grand Tours? I would like to see serious response, just to see how all of our opinion vary. Especially be interesting to get limerick, huskey, cyclingheros (especially since he is usually right there at the races he can tell us maybe a darkhorse rider that will breakout next year).

My tuppence worth : given that they have had a year to adapt their strategy, the last 12 months have been shambolic.

Therefore, DC need to address their team strategy ie. what races do they intend to try to win and have they got the firepower/tactics to win those races?
In addition, they need to look at how they're going to develop talent.
Do they buy in talent? Or do they try to nurture talent?

Their team is aging : Hincapie and Ekimov are getting on.
Their "new" blood like Hammond and Danielson were too old to be developed
anyhow.
Then they let Hoste go.

The Team management need to agree a strategy - they should have done this in July 2005.

 

[sydsyd]

My tuppence worth : given that they have had a year to adapt their strategy, the last 12 months have been shambolic.

Therefore, DC need to address their team strategy ie. what races do they intend to try to win and have they got the firepower/tactics to win those races?
In addition, they need to look at how they're going to develop talent.
Do they buy in talent? Or do they try to nurture talent?

Their team is aging : Hincapie and Ekimov are getting on.
Their "new" blood like Hammond and Danielson were too old to be developed
anyhow.
Then they let Hoste go.

The Team management need to agree a strategy - they should have done this in July 2005.

I think you're right on the money. For 7 years they worked primarily for one race. Lance only cared about the TdF, he was the boss that was the focus. They really shot the pooch in not preparing better for the retirement of Armstrong. July 2005? They should have started before that.

 

[rejobako]

Has anyone noted that when Armstrong turned up to the Giro DC had a disaster day in the TTT after winning the prologue then things went real bad for the team… Now at the Tour Hnicapie holds the yellow for a day then Armstrong rocks up and the entire team capitulate into nothingness…. What is he saying to the team ? Perhaps he should stay away ?

I didn't notice that, but I did note that the day Armstrong showed up to the Tour and formally endorsed Landis, he lost 10 minutes.

 

[whiteboytrash]

I think you're right on the money. For 7 years they worked primarily for one race. Lance only cared about the TdF, he was the boss that was the focus. They really shot the pooch in not preparing better for the retirement of Armstrong. July 2005? They should have started before that.

I think Musette made a good point that Bruyneel had probably made a lot of promises to Azavedo, Beltrain, Hincapie and the like during the sevens years that they could lead once Lance retires to buy there commitment. Because of this he couldn't go out and buy 6 new riders or bring in new blood and develop them. That’s the difference between DC/USPS and European teams. European teams have “feeder” teams in 2nd division and the like that foster younger talent. DC hoped to buy a Tour winner and when that failed that tried to turn a carthorse like Hincapie into a TDF winner. It just doesn’t work that way. Problem now it’s a long way back to the top. Hincapie is really finished as GT rider (not that he was ever one) and finished as a clasics rider. What do they do ? Savo is leaving to Lampre which leaves them with nothing. Sad really. They should of planned for this in 2004 !

 

[whiteboytrash]

I didn't notice that, but I did note that the day Armstrong showed up to the Tour and formally endorsed Landis, he lost 10 minutes.

I noted that as well ! Maybe he might come back today to haunt him !