Discovery in disarray.... ?

[whiteboytrash]

USPS/DC holds a lot of Tour records. It is hard to keep up that amazing pace:

Total GC victories: LA (7)
Number of dyas in yellow LA is second (82) behind Merckx (111)
Fastest team time trial: DC, 2005 (57.32 km.hr)
Most road stage victories: LA (22)

A few more records:

Most amount of positive EPO tests in one Tour: LA (6)

Most amount of failed marriages in peleton: LA (2)

Most amount of broken engagements to rockstars: LA (1)

Most of amount of former team-mates underperforming after drug scandal: DC (9 riders)

 

[musette]

LA has never been demonstrated to have failed an EPO test, as we all know.

Also, LA has been married and divorced once.

Cyclists underperform for all sorts of reasons.

I am waiting for "the firing", which I hope will become as famous as "the look".

 

[jhuskey]

LA has never been demonstrated to have failed an EPO test, as we all know.

Also, LA has been married and divorced once.

Cyclists underperform for all sorts of reasons.

I am waiting for "the firing", which I hope will become as famous as "the look".

The "look"as it was called was just media hype which I am eternally sick of.

 

[Bro Deal]

LA has never been demonstrated to have failed an EPO test, as we all know.

We also all know there was EPO found in six of his retrotested urine samples.

Cyclists underperform for all sorts of reasons.

And in the wake of doping scandals whole teams underperform for what reason?

 

[whiteboytrash]

And in the wake of doping scandals whole teams underperform for what reason?

Speaking of which.... Hincapie out the back again..... oh dear...... someone get some blood to the boy......

 

[rejobako]

The "look"as it was called was just media hype which I am eternally sick of.

Armstrong has acknowledged as much, saying he wasn't actually measuring Ullrich, but trying to see past him down the hill to find out where the other GC contenders were.

It was an exciting moment, nonetheless.

 

[rejobako]

A few more records:

Most amount of positive EPO tests in one Tour: LA (6)

Three words for you: "chain of custody". Those samples are proof of nothing except the incompetence of those who tried to rely upon them.

Most amount of failed marriages in peleton: LA (2)

He's only been married once.

Most amount of broken engagements to rockstars: LA (1)

Yes, I always condemn those who get engaged and then break up before getting married. What a horrible, horrible man.

Most of amount of former team-mates underperforming after drug scandal: DC (9 riders)

Which of those men did you pick for the maillot jaune this year? Disco's having a mediocre TdF to say the least. A lot of teams are. Like most people who hate all things Armstrong, your criticisms are sketchy and circumstantial.

 

[Bro Deal]

Three words for you: "chain of custody". Those samples are proof of nothing except the incompetence of those who tried to rely upon them.

Curious how even though the lab had no knowledge of which samples belonged to who it was Armstrong's that tested positive. I am sure it was a conspiracy. There is no way it could have been accomplished without knowing who the samples belonged to, but I am sure it was a conspiracy nevertheless.

Armstrong is welcome to take a DNA test to prove the samples do not belong to him. I am sure that will happen any day now.

 

[Ullefan]

Three words for you: "chain of custody". Those samples are proof of nothing except the incompetence of those who tried to rely upon them.

One word for you: "Ferrari"

 

[rejobako]

One word for you: "Ferrari"

It's a name, which implies much but proves nothing. I am not stating Armstrong never doped. I am taking issue with WBT's statement. With Armstrong as with any other rider, I object to using questionable evidence to establish fact. If he wants to claim he thinks Armstrong doped because of those 1999 samples, that's fine. But don't state it as a fact, because it's no more a fact that to claim Ullrich has been proven to be a doper because someone wrote "Son of Rudy" in a notebook.

 

[Scotty_Dog]

Armstrong is welcome to take a DNA test to prove the samples do not belong to him. I am sure that will happen any day now.

A DNA test would only prove or disprove that the samples were from Lance Armstrong. A DNA test would not prove he was guilty of using EPO in 1999 because of the following reasons:

1) the EPO test used unfounded protocol
2) the EPO test had no control sample
3) the EPO test had no second sample
4) the samples had no chain of custody
5) the false results were illegally presented as positives

There is no reason to take a DNA test. The EPO testing itself was flawed and in question, not the origin of the samples.

 

[Bro Deal]

The results were not "illegally presented as positive", whatever that is supposed to mean. There does not need to be a second sample because the testing was done for research not sanctioning purposes; the same thing goes for the chain of custody and the protocol. The lab, which is the foremost authority on testing for EPO, found EPO in Armstrong's urine and stands by its results. The pattern of EPO levels found in consecutive days samples was consistent with three EPO injections.

 

[whiteboytrash]

Ah back to this old chestnut... now lets get back to the topic at hand... DC's failure at the 2006 Tour.. Hincapie one hour behind, Popo losng 30 minutes today... DC are in total and complete disarray.

The results were not "illegally presented as positive", whatever that is supposed to mean. There does not need to be a second sample because the testing was done for research not sanctioning purposes; the same thing goes for the chain of custody and the protocol. The lab, which is the foremost authority on testing for EPO, found EPO in Armstrong's urine and stands by its results. The pattern of EPO levels found in consecutive days samples was consistent with three EPO injections.

 

[Mansmind]

Curious how even though the lab had no knowledge of which samples belonged to who it was Armstrong's that tested positive. I am sure it was a conspiracy. There is no way it could have been accomplished without knowing who the samples belonged to, but I am sure it was a conspiracy nevertheless.

Armstrong is welcome to take a DNA test to prove the samples do not belong to him. I am sure that will happen any day now.

I completely agree. Lance is hiding behind the "chain of custody" the same way Basson and JU are hiding behind "we don't know what we're accused of". It's all legal horseshit.

If they (any of them) were so concerned about putting the issue to bed.. do the DNA and get the question answered. The fact that none of them have yet done that is very suspicious....

Why would they choose to be publicly crucified (especially the two still competing) when they could prove the matter once and for all. I understand they are not LEGALLY bound to do that, but considering all the negative press flying around, it would seem to be in their interests to do it.. unless they can't.

 

[Durangodave]

Ah back to this old chestnut... now lets get back to the topic at hand... DC's failure at the 2006 Tour.. Hincapie one hour behind, Popo losng 30 minutes today... DC are in total and complete disarray.

Yep.
Disarray
Chaos
Collapse
Bedlam (I actually went there once, voluntarily)

That's it. RACE OVER. Why even watch anymore? I'm done with this sport.
...

 

[Mansmind]

A DNA test would only prove or disprove that the samples were from Lance Armstrong.

I would think the "chain of custody" argument applies directly to if they were his or not.

1) the EPO test used unfounded protocol

According to whom? Do we know exactly what method was used for testing?

2) the EPO test had no control sample

Very true, but it doesn't mean the "positive" was in fact "negative".

3) the EPO test had no second sample

Which means he can't be sanctioned. OKAY, we all know that... what we don't know is WHY they tested positive.

4) the samples had no chain of custody

Then test to see if it's his. He says his samples could NOT have had EPO...so if not.. the samples obviously had to belong to someone else. Easy enough to establish.

5) the false results were illegally presented as positives

I believe that's only true if they were presented as a basis for sanctioning him, which I don't think they were.

There is no reason to take a DNA test. The EPO testing itself was flawed and in question

Perhaps, but flawed how? We know it wasn't done in accordance with currently established guidelines/procedures necessary to sanction a rider. We do not know it was actually flawed however. Of course, I've seen a lot of speculation they were, but that doesn't mean anything. For SOME reason, the lab stands behind the results. If the test was actually flawed, that would be a very risky stance for the lab to take.


I like Armstrong, but he did not address the L'Equipe situation satisfactorily. Sure, he doesn't have to worry legally.. but public opinion is another matter. Something in that lab tested positive. If the positive was incorrect, that needs to be brought out (but the lab stands behind it). If they were correct, they could not belong to Lance according to his own words.. so prove they're not. Put the issue to bed once and for all.

I can only think of one GOOD reason for not addressing it that way, which makes me suspicious.


Incidentally, I'd say the same thing regarding JU and Basso right now. They could both prove that blood isn't theirs easily.. so do it. Again...if they can. Doing so would put the whole issue to bed..and they could get back to racing.

 

[Mansmind]

Ah back to this old chestnut... now lets get back to the topic at hand... DC's failure at the 2006 Tour.. Hincapie one hour behind, Popo losng 30 minutes today... DC are in total and complete disarray.

Would you realistically expect anything different though? Armstrong made USPS/Discovery what they were...he apparently held it all together and kept everyone motivated (especially in retrospect). He was obviously a very strong leader.

They differ from a lot of teams in that there was ONE real goal of the team, support Armstrong to win the TdF. Now it's up to someone there (or not there yet) to assert themselves to take over that role unless they change their main goals. Obviously it has not happened at this tour.

As such, would you not expect it to fall apart somewhat? How well did the Bulls do right after Jordan left (as an example)? To me, it seems only natural for it to take a season (or even two) before the team gets its identity back and everyone pulling on the rope again. They obviously have some good talent (at least for now), we'll have to see what they do with it over time.

 

[walkman]

With the mindset of L'Equip to "take Lance down a notch any way possible", one must keep in mind the possiblility that the results of their testing was faked/biased in some way.

One of Lance's contentions is that they destoyed all of the available sample so it was impossible for independent testing.

 

[walkman]

I think the results of the Discovery team reinforces how great Lance was. How many times did Lance critics say that he was the lucky recipient of his teammates greatness.

And yet, none of his former teammates have gone on to great success. Instead they achieved their best when they were riding for Lance.

 

[limerickman]

USPS/DC holds a lot of Tour records. It is hard to keep up that amazing pace:

Number of dyas in yellow LA is second (82) behind Merckx (111)
Most road stage victories: LA (22)

Merckx, ahem, ahem, 35 stages wins in the TDF.
You need to amend your, ahem, "records".

Learn about the sport before posing, please.