Discovery disbands

[Rolfrae]

...and a lousy business....hopefully T-Mobile and CSC will be caught again with the many dopers they have and pull out of sponsorship…that should open the flood gate for ALL to leave this gutted sport, and then the healing and starting over can begin.

What a great idea rolleyes - all the sponsors should pull out of cycling so the healing can begin. By healing you mean pro cycling disappearing? It only exists because of sponsors. Races are about publicity for sponsors. Disco left because other teams weren't as proficient at doping and at managing to avoid doping controls. Only a fool would believe that the winningest team in recent Tour history hadn't used doping of any kind to attain that title. Lots of other teams were not so proficient at doping as Disco/USPS and we are where we are. What if things had worked out differently this year and Basso had ridden the Giro in Disco colours, and then had his DNA matched to the Birillo bags in Madrid? Would that not have been a Disco doping case? Brunyeel and Armstrong might be a lot of things to a lot of people but neither of them are stupid. The know their game inside out and they would have known exactly what they were getting into with Basso, exactly what he had been doing to get his results and exactly what he would need to do to get future good results.

Why do people on this forum take sides - my team's clean, your team's not? Your team's gone now so will you still support pro cycling? Or just watch and pray every day that a T Mobile/CSC rider tests positive? Cycling might be in a mess but better that than to have some shiny surface upon a cesspool of illegally-gained results, cycling at ridiculously high speeds, pros dying because of doping, the spineless UCI rubbing its hands with glee as omerta rules and the fans act like brainless morons, failing to question the legitimacy of obviously mainipulated performances.

 

[cyclingheroes]

You guys win the prize for the day.

Bruyneel to Rabobank ?
http://www.cyclingheroes.info/id827.html

 

[Mansmind]

All teams are under suspicion, I agree.

I have to say when other teams/team riders have been shown to have doped - their supporters here have (in most cases) accepted that they have doped and have not tried to defend them with convoluted arguments about the
professionalism of the laboratory/laboratory staff, xenophobic comments about the nationality of the race organisers/race locations, condescending remarks about the ability of riders on other teams.

Unfortunately the same cannot be said when legitimate doubts were raised about USPS/DC here.
Certain USPS/DC-supporting forum members insisted on making derogatory comments bout the professionalism of the laboratory/laboratory staff.
Making xenophobic comments about the nationality of the race organisers/race locations
Making xenophobic comments about the media of the race organisers/race locations.
And making condescending remarks about the ability of riders on other teams.
Indeed some even stated that any criticism of DC was a criticism of America
and Americans.

I don't spend a lot of time posting here, but I do read.

I see the truth in what you say above, but it amazes me that you have implicated the actions of 2 or 3 posters here as the reason behind this forum's continuous bashing from both sides of the issue.

1. What you say above is true, but it has been many times provoked...especially in regards to your "criticism of America" comment. I've personally read posts here criticizing America directly (as Americans). On the other hand, I don't believe I've read direct criticism of Europe (as Europeans).

2. How many people have made excuses for Landis, or Hamilton? Sure there are the theories..there always will be. The fact is, they were caught, they tested positive under the current rules/regulations. There's nothing to discredit the actions that have been/or will be taken.

3. Cycling as a sport is not nearly as large or as much a part of our culture in America vs. Europe. That fact will never change, although the difference may be much slimmer at some point in the future. Do you or do you not want cycling to be more popular throughout the world? Yeah, we're the "new guys"...and at least around here..the "new guys" are the favorite target.


Concerning all the recent issues affecting cycling, how can you believe that it's a truly good thing for DC to disband? You use the argument "worst doping team of all time". Perhaps that's true, but if that is your basis, you need to look in your own backyard a little closer...many other teams need to disband also.

The post you were responding to was 100% correct. We can argue the details forever, but the general point was correct.

 

[wolfix]

Bruyneel to Rabobank ?
http://www.cyclingheroes.info/id827.html

Interesting ..... everything seems to be falling in line........

Just a thought ....... G Hincapie signs with T-M, rides for a year, then comes home to finish his career with a butt load of T-M money for sponsorship with Bruyneel and Armstrong as figureheads......
Tailwind Sports acts as the management.
T-M will be the major force in US cycling in the future.

 

[Cobblestones]

T-Mobile ran an organized doping program in the 90's, their star was caught blood doping last year, and Sinkewitz nailed this year during out of competition. CSC? Their star was blood doping last year, and they are still being run by Mr 60%. That was the most un-secret secret for years, yet he was given a free ride by the doping accusers.

There's your team leadership in the fight against doping. They found Jesus this year, so everything is all right. With DC gone, you can put your head back in the sand.

And DC didn't run the show, they just played in it. The show was and is being run by two organizations: the UCI and ASO. And I use the term 'organization' very loosely. There. Don't you feel better now?

Read my post again. The only thing I'm saying is that T-Mobile and CSC are trying to appear clean. Tailwind can't be arsed to do even that. If they had, I'm sure they'd have found a sponsor. (Probably it's the other way 'round, the potential sponsor likely required Tailwind to put up a the same show as T-Mobile/CSC and tailwind declined.)

 

[jhuskey]

Bruyneel to Rabobank ?
http://www.cyclingheroes.info/id827.html

After a little more disaster control they can move Alberto.

I hit 5000 posts and didn't even notice. Do I get a discount rate or some coupon now?
It's celebration time............. somebody hand me a beer.

 

[Serafino]

My point exactly. The man is an idiot and a fraud who debases the reputation of the USA. If you weren't so blind, you'd realize that he's giving you (the American Public) the finger.

But, sadly, blind you appear to be

 

[cyclingheroes]

After a little more disaster control they can move Alberto.

I hit 5000 posts and didn't even notice. Do I get a discount rate or some coupon now?
It's celebration time............. somebody hand me a beer.

If you come to Europe I will bring you the best beer of the continent (which does not come from the Netherlands, BELGIAN beer is the best there is... but its possible that the combination of a day of hard work at a Belgian classic and a beer after that or two or more... well you know... sometimes these evenings can get pretty wild.. )

By the way, next week I will speak with a guy who use to work for Rabo...

 

[jsull14]

My point exactly. The man is an idiot and a fraud who debases the reputation of the USA. If you weren't so blind, you'd realize that he's giving you (the American Public) the finger.

But, sadly, blind you appear to be

I never said I was a Bush fan. I am an America fan. Bush is too liberal for me. If I were in charge the war would have been over in three days and none of our young men would have been lost. We have all of this firepower and the liberals won't let us use it. Bush is a socialist. If I wanted to live in Canada, France, or Cuba I would. Pretty soon our heart surgeons will only need a third grade education. In the meantime I will continue to get up and go to work everyday to help feed, educate, house, and care for people who break the law and don't pay taxes.

 

[poulidor]

My point exactly. The man is an idiot and a fraud who debases the reputation of the USA. If you weren't so blind, you'd realize that he's giving you (the American Public) the finger.

But, sadly, blind you appear to be

We are backing you.
Is there no possibility for un impeachement ? Or it's only for sexual adventure?

 

[??? 3/4 ? 1/4]

We are backing you.
Is there no possibility for un impeachement ? Or it's only for sexual adventure?

1) I think you mean "impeachment" without the "un"

2) Actually it was for "perjurious, false and misleading testimony to a grand jury" and "obstruction of justice."

 

[JoshuaBoy]

Brajkovič is negotiating with T-Mobile in Switzerland

 

[cyclingheroes]

Brajkovič is negotiating with T-Mobile in Switzerland

Source?

 

[JoshuaBoy]

Source?

Brajkovič himself. He was talking to the journalist in the afternoon. It was on TV 25 minutes ago.

 

[Klodifan]

The action of Tailwind to pull out of professional cycling makes a lot of sense...

It makes a lot of sense because they are a dirty team who did not want to clean up their act. It is not b/c of the reasons you listed.

Consider this. LA has achieved much in cycling. He is world famous. Why is he not giving back to the sport that propelled him to where he is today? He could be an outspoken leader in the fight against doping, simply to preserve the integrity and legitimacy of his tour wins. Yes, he hasn't been. He has been relatively quiet. Why is he not indignant that doping is killing a sport he proclaims to love? Why not reorganiz the team and set it as a shining example for a new era of cycling? Everything Slipstream is doing, and yes, I have spoken out about that, nevertheless, everything they have professed is what one would assume LA would do with his team. But he cuts and runs, and says they will return when cycling is more stable. How can anyone accept this? Why not help in the endeavor? He can race little American races and organize events here and there in the States where he is safe, but a true testiment would have been to stick it out in the heart of cycling that is Europe.

Personally, I am glad they have disbanded, but for true disco fans, one must be honest and ask themselves these questions.

 

[Klodifan]

Bruyneel to Rabobank ?
http://www.cyclingheroes.info/id827.html

hmmm... that's some retirement.

 

[lwedge]

Interesting ..... everything seems to be falling in line........

Just a thought ....... G Hincapie signs with T-M, rides for a year, then comes home to finish his career with a butt load of T-M money for sponsorship with Bruyneel and Armstrong as figureheads......
Tailwind Sports acts as the management.
T-M will be the major force in US cycling in the future.

Good Thought.

I agree, they have supported teams and cycling in the US for sometime now.

lw

 

[??? 3/4 ? 1/4]

It makes a lot of sense because they are a dirty team who did not want to clean up their act. It is not b/c of the reasons you listed.

Consider this. LA has achieved much in cycling. He is world famous. Why is he not giving back to the sport that propelled him to where he is today? He could be an outspoken leader in the fight against doping, simply to preserve the integrity and legitimacy of his tour wins. Yes, he hasn't been. He has been relatively quiet. Why is he not indignant that doping is killing a sport he proclaims to love? Why not reorganiz the team and set it as a shining example for a new era of cycling? Everything Slipstream is doing, and yes, I have spoken out about that, nevertheless, everything they have professed is what one would assume LA would do with his team. But he cuts and runs, and says they will return when cycling is more stable. How can anyone accept this? Why not help in the endeavor? He can race little American races and organize events here and there in the States where he is safe, but a true testiment would have been to stick it out in the heart of cycling that is Europe.

Personally, I am glad they have disbanded, but for true disco fans, one must be honest and ask themselves these questions.

Have you tried looking at it from the other point of view? You know the one where companies don't want anything to do with cycling because the media portrays cycling as this horrible dirty sport while brushing the transgressions of other sports under the rug? Where is that list of non-cyclists involved in OP? Where are those articles that commend cycling for putting in a better effort then any other sport out there in the fight against doping? It's pretty easy to pick a side and never bother to look at the other side. Don't you think?

 

[wolfix]

It makes a lot of sense because they are a dirty team who did not want to clean up their act. It is not b/c of the reasons you listed.

Consider this. LA has achieved much in cycling. He is world famous. Why is he not giving back to the sport that propelled him to where he is today? He could be an outspoken leader in the fight against doping, simply to preserve the integrity and legitimacy of his tour wins. Yes, he hasn't been. He has been relatively quiet. Why is he not indignant that doping is killing a sport he proclaims to love? Why not reorganiz the team and set it as a shining example for a new era of cycling? Everything Slipstream is doing, and yes, I have spoken out about that, nevertheless, everything they have professed is what one would assume LA would do with his team. But he cuts and runs, and says they will return when cycling is more stable. How can anyone accept this? Why not help in the endeavor? He can race little American races and organize events here and there in the States where he is safe, but a true testiment would have been to stick it out in the heart of cycling that is Europe.

Personally, I am glad they have disbanded, but for true disco fans, one must be honest and ask themselves these questions.

First of all...You must deal with reality. Disco did not have any actual drug positives while racing. Just allegations. The records show them to be the dominant team in the GT's the last 9 years with the least amount of actual doping charges. LA won 7 TDF's and was attacked all the time . History will show him to be the greatest cyclist ever in the TDF. That's reality, not just what a few individuals on a forum think.

LA has given more to the public then all the cyclists in the pro peloton combined. He works regularily with cancer patients. And that is real life. Riding a bike is really nothing more then a child's activity.

His goals are far more important then racing in what is actually a fraud sport...European cycling. It is the joke of the sporting world and has been since the 1970's.

And the Euro's have made it that way.

You are stupid if you believe cycling is any dirtier today then it has been the past 30 years. It has always been dirty. Fact.

LA owes cycling nothing. Tailwind Sports is not just LA. It is a group of people. And why would they throw money away on a sport that is falling apart?

You need to grow up and realize what cycling has always been about. None of the ex-champs have ever given back....... So why should LA?
Name one ex-TDF champ who has given back?
[ He did give back. He gave us the best team in the TDF this year. ]

 

[Cobblestones]

Sorry, your post doesn't make much sense

First you talk a lot about LA, then you say 'Tailwind Sports is not just LA. It is a group of people. And why would they throw money away on a sport that is falling apart?'

Can't have it both ways. And Tailwind isn't throwing away money. The sponsor is. I would be surprised if Tailwind doesn't make a fair profit from this cycling season.

The point still stands. LA could get engaged in a clean pro cycling if he wanted to. He choses not to (for whatever reason).