Discovery in disarray.... ?

[saluki]

This months CycleSport magazine reports that Il Falco, “the Savo” is moving to Lampre next season. It appears he wasn’t happy with the on again off again support of Danielson and who was actually the team leader.

my input ? It really shows DC's shitty management skills that Salvodelli can win the Giro with no support and on his own and when DC claim to been assisting him he loses by 20 minutes ! Go figure !

Now there's a lack of insight for you. Let's suppose, for the sake of argument, that the DC support was shitty. How in the world would that cause Savoldelli to do worse than he did on his own. Did you see anybody from DC holding him back?

Any idiot can see the difference between this year and last.

A. Basso got sick last year.
B. This year was much more of a climbers race.
C. The other main contenders didn't show up in particulary good condition last year.

Additionally, you have to be a particularly obsessed individual to critisize Danielson because he got the flu and couldn't help Savoldelli on a couple of occasions. I suppose you blame DC for Danielson getting the flu.

Savoldelli could have latched on to any number of people going up the mountain ahead of him on most of the climbs. The fact that he wasn't strong enough to follow anybody was his own problem. DC never put Danielson's placement ahead of Savoldelli's placement during the entire race. Savoldelli's failure is purely his own. Maybe he should look back on his time at T Mobile before assuming that he can be great by jumping teams.

 

[limerickman]

You said the same thing about Hoste last week.

Landis and, more recently, Hoste left DC because DC wouldn't pay them the going rate.]/QUOTE]

No, I didn't say the same thing about Hoste. You said Bruyneel was willing to match Hoste's offer from Davi and I said no, Bruyneel was not and gave you some back-up about how Bruyneel generally doesn't match offers (quoting from Bruyneel). Landis was an exception, and that's why, when Bruyneel listed the examples he listed when he said he was not offering to match Hoste (Leipheimer, Heras, Hamilton, Boonen), he excluded Landis.

You wanna go and look at the discussion?

I told you some time that Bruyneel went away to try to get some more funds after Hoste gave DC the right of first refusal when the Lotto offer came in.
Bruyneel came back with the extra cash following the weekend, but attached extra conditions and Hoste told him where to go.
I told you this at the time.
So you can check the discussion - you'll see I told you this at that time.

As regards Landis - Bruyneel too at that time was prepared to pay the readies
either.
So Landis walked too.

It's al about the readies.

 

[musette]

I told you some time that Bruyneel went away to try to get some more funds after Hoste gave DC the right of first refusal when the Lotto offer came in.
Bruyneel came back with the extra cash following the weekend, but attached extra conditions and Hoste told him where to go.
I told you this at the time.
So you can check the discussion - you'll see I told you this at that time.

Sure, you said that at the time. But it was based on nothing public. I, on the other hand, showed you quotes from Bruyneel that he wasn't matching Hoste's public offer. He stated that and that was reported by many websites. So what you told me doesn't mean it was true, obviously.

As for Landis, I have again shown you a quote from a reliable source and you have again asserted whatever you wanted to assert without any public demonstration. Of course, you're going to say a little bird told you so. A little bird perhaps that chirps within your own brain?

Sometimes I wonder whether you deliberately try to pretend not to understand the arguments I am making. And then I study your retorts, and I tell myself that, no, you really just didn't understand!

 

[musette]

Saluki -- I agree with you that Savo's losing time in this year's Giro is largely his own fault. However, I think, if Beltran and Chechu and TD had been better and more consistent in being around Savo (although one of them, mostly Chechu and TD, were there for some of the stages), that probably could have helped him to limit the time loss more.

And on DC's strange little suggestions that TD might have a chance at GC in the Giro, that was just plain bizarre. (Note that L has a bad memory lapse on my position on TD trying to usurp leadership of the Giro, even before the Giro started. I told him that we could bet, based on the history of posts public on the board, as to what my position had been, and he of course didn't dare bet with me.) Here, DC has the defending champion of the Giro, a two-time Giro winner. Yet it was inserting these little public phrases in talking about the Giro about how TD has great climbing capabilities and might have GC hopes. And, more crucially, DC was not curbing TD's own crazy mouthings about how the Giro is made for him, etc. TD was certainly hoping for his own GC position.

If I were Savo, and I had to put up with that, I would view that as a significant negative.

Frankly, I ask whether Savo would be taking a pay cut in going to Lampre. Surely, even though Savo won last year, Lampre must have ssen how poorly Savo did on the climbs this year. True, Savo was supposed to have allergies, but one wonders whether that was ex poste justification of bad outcomes. True, next year's Giro might be less climbing-intensive, but still, Savo's got to get his climbing groove back before he will be competitive for a podium spot.

Don't get me wrong. Savo is probably my favorite current rider in the peloton. But that doesn't mean I don't see some of his faults as well as his capabilities. Perhaps I found his winning last year's Giro more special because he used his strategic thinking more and he used his brain in part to win.

 

[limerickman]

So what you told me doesn't mean it was true, obviously.

Are you accusing me of lying?

As for Landis, I have again shown you a quote from a reliable source and you have again asserted whatever you wanted to assert without any public demonstration. Of course, you're going to say a little bird told you so. A little bird perhaps that chirps within your own brain?

Quotes - Tour De Force by Coyle, stated that DC were not prepared to match the rate offered by other teams regarding Landis.
Landis therefore walked.

Now I supplied you with the info as it happened re Hoste - are you calling me liar ?

 

[whiteboytrash]

I agree... Landis doesn't want the acclaim.... if he wins the Tour with Phonak that’s great for him... he doesn't want to appear on Letterman..... Landis says in CycleSport this month "I love this team (Phonak) it doesn't have the media circus of Lance's team"..... The DC marketing plot was emphasized when Armstrong recently said about Ullrich: "...I don't understand, he could be the biggest sporting star in Germany". Now aside that he is already the biggest sporting star in Germany, is this why he rides a bike ? For celebrity status ? To appear in the papers and gossips mags ? That’s DC, they want mainstreams American heroes not hard working athletes who win races. One can look at Armstrong now; drinking, cavorting with a different women each weeks and appear in People magazine. He is a far cry from his books and the platform he sold himself on... so what but some of you guys still buy his ****. Other riders don’t aspire to this… including Landis.

Interesting enough Bruyneel is interviewed in CycleSport and said the following about Basso: "If Basso was available I'd still be interested in signing him but he's not free. If I could choose any rider if would be him." - You have to admit DC kind of farked things up with signing for post Lance. They thought they had Basso, then they were gong to sign Vino but went back to Basso, then they didn't want Vino or Basso and ended up pissing everyone off and got no one ! Not so smart !

One last point. CycleSport also has a special section on each teams TT and road bikes. You have to admit CSC’s Cervelo’s have taken over as the No.1 consumer road bike. They look, cool, are cool and ride good. Trek since Hincapie’s crash have literally fallen by the wayside.

Yeah, he doesn't strike me as the sort of guy who wants to be a household name.

I can't see Landis going back to DC - once bitten....

 

[saluki]

Landis walked 'cause Bruyneel wouldn't pay landis the going rate

Look, you can't realize your own riding ambitions when Lance Armstrong is on your team. It may well be that Landis wanted to be more than Lance's domestique. That's fine. Nobody has to be blamed for anything. Also, in the interview that I saw with Floyd he indicated that the environment at DC was just too intense and demanding when Lance was there. I think Floyd needs a more laid back environment. That is also fine. I doubt that Floyd will return to DC. Not every rider is a fit with every team. And concerning DC, when the team is built around a seven time TDF winner, you have to expect that it will take some time to find it's direction once he leaves. So for all the nuts that claim that DC doesn't know what they are doing, they seem to forget that seven TDF's in a row would seem to indicate the contrary.

On the other hand, take a team like T Mobile. They were blessed with possibly the greatest natural cycling talent in the history of the sport. And what have they gotten out of him. Not even a fifth of the GT wins that he should have had. Now that is team incompetence.

 

[whiteboytrash]

On the other hand, take a team like T Mobile. They were blessed with possibly the greatest natural cycling talent in the history of the sport. And what have they gotten out of him. Not even a fifth of the GT wins that he should have had. Now that is team incompetence.

I'm not so sure.... Biggest sports star in Germany... despite his foibles and that’s the reason why Germans love him, T-Mobile the company have probably made a **** load more from cycling sponsorship than DC/USPS every could imagine.... Ullrich is bigger than Armstrong in their respective home countries. EOS.

One must remember now that one has a respectable loving relationship with a women and the other is now appearing on the pages on People magazine with a different women each week and a beer in his hand. Everyone does things in a different order. Old man growing young.

 

[whiteboytrash]

Reagrdless they ended up with no one... does that not tell you something ? No one wanted to join them !

 

[saluki]

Now aside that he is already the biggest sporting star in Germany, is this why he rides a bike ? For celebrity status ? To appear in the papers and gossips mags ? That’s DC, they want mainstreams American heroes not hard working athletes who win races.

Michael Schumacher is the biggest sporting star in Germany. He holds all the Formula 1 records.

No one knows why Jan rides his bike. They only know that he doesn't ride it much.

You must be the biggest looney on this board. You talk about hard working athletes who win races at the same time that you are a Jan Ullrich fan. But Lance both outworked Ullrich and beat him in all of the races. It was Jan that was so satisfied with his celebrity after one TDF win that he couldn't be bothered to get his fat ass off the couch. So what in the hell you are talking about is anybody's guess.

 

[saluki]

I'm not so sure.... Biggest sports star in Germany... despite his foibles and that’s the reason why Germans love him, T-Mobile the company have probably made a **** load more from cycling sponsorship than DC/USPS every could imagine.... Ullrich is bigger than Armstrong in their respective home countries. EOS.

One must remember now that one has a respectable loving relationship with a women and the other is now appearing on the pages on People magazine with a different women each week and a beer in his hand. Everyone does things in a different order. Old man growing young.

I believe that Lance is also preparing to run a Marathon. I doubt that he will get any real money for that. Once Jan retires he will weigh 250 pounds in 3 months.

 

[limerickman]

Michael Schumacher is the biggest sporting star in Germany. He holds all the Formula 1 records.

No one knows why Jan rides his bike. They only know that he doesn't ride it much.

You must be the biggest looney on this board. You talk about hard working athletes who win races at the same time that you are a Jan Ullrich fan. But Lance both outworked Ullrich and beat him in all of the races. It was Jan that was so satisfied with his celebrity after one TDF win that he couldn't be bothered to get his fat ass off the couch. So what in the hell you are talking about is anybody's guess.

Ullrich regularly tops "most popular sports personality" in Germany awards each year.
Schumacher despite his great record isn't as popular as JU.

 

[DiabloScott]

I'm not so sure.... Biggest sports star in Germany... despite his foibles and that’s the reason why Germans love him, T-Mobile the company have probably made a **** load more from cycling sponsorship than DC/USPS every could imagine.... Ullrich is bigger than Armstrong in their respective home countries. EOS.

One must remember now that one has a respectable loving relationship with a women and the other is now appearing on the pages on People magazine with a different women each week and a beer in his hand. Everyone does things in a different order. Old man growing young.

I don't read People so I don't know. But, serious question - what's Jan's relationship with his daughter? They used to pose together a lot... my daughter is about the same age and I enjoyed seeing photos of little Sarah with her Dad. Haven't seen any in quite a while.

 

[whiteboytrash]

Michael Schumacher is the biggest sporting star in Germany. He holds all the Formula 1 records.

Oh dear... another American who thinks he know Europe... Jan Ullrich has out polled Shuey as Germany's No.1 Sports star many years running... its ok you stay in your bubble.... * WBT smacks back a stunning return of serve to leave Saluki standing in sheer amazement *


please don't reply as I have been dispatching your type for months on this forum and I really can't be bothered with you...

You man is a drunken, cavorting, womanizing, divorcee with thee children he abandoned in Texas... get over it... he is fat now ! by his own admission ! There is a nice quote in Cyclesport this month about it as well ! “A rather larger Lance Armstrong turned up to the Giro to see his team finish well behind CSC and T-Mobile” - There words not mine !

 

[Eldrack]

Ullrichs popularity will do him well in retirement. Lots of people are going to want a bike with Ullrichs name on it. Especially if he wins this years TdF. He is a great champion in his own right, but unlike Armstrong he has shown a great deal of weakness as well as a lot of strength. I guess it makes him more accessible to the general public.

 

[whiteboytrash]

I believe that Lance is also preparing to run a Marathon. I doubt that he will get any real money for that. Once Jan retires he will weigh 250 pounds in 3 months.

True and I quote CycleSport: "...I haven't cycled much recently....I trying to train for the New York Marathon..."

- Your man is now 34 going on 22.... Jan has lived his youth and his now a respected father and loving man to his girlfriend. Your man abandon his children, his wife and a second soon to be wife when she had cancer. Who's the hero ? Our man Jan, makes mistakes but we love him for it

 

[saluki]

Oh dear... another American who thinks he know Europe... Jan Ullrich has out polled Shuey as Germany's No.1 Sports star many years running.

Must be because of the way that he lost his countries home tour to a man like Levi who doesn't have half the natural talent.

 

[DiabloScott]

Ullrichs popularity will do him well in retirement. Lots of people are going to want a bike with Ullrichs name on it. Especially if he wins this years TdF.

I think you're right, but the ones you can get now are pretty ugly:

http://www.janullrich-bikes.de

He needs an Italian image consultant.

 

[whiteboytrash]

Must be because of the way that he lost his countries home tour to a man like Levi who doesn't have half the natural talent.

The knife cuts deep....

 

[lwedge]

Ullrich regularly tops "most popular sports personality" in Germany awards each year.
Schumacher despite his great record isn't as popular as JU.

Crazy Germans. Don't they know a popular German sports personality when they see one.

http://www.strangesports.com/content/item/104580.html

lw