Discovery in disarray.... ?
- Thread starter whiteboytrash
- Start date
To be fair though, Lance got caught doping 7 times in 1999 now, so we should take that win away and the two after. We have now seen what Heras' help was so we should take that win away too. Savoldelli's win was also a bit suspect when he can win twice with no team support in dodgey teams but cannot even make it as pack fill when riding in a clean team. So that only leaves 4 GT's in 7 years which is pretty good still.musette said:
Plus, if they are such a strong team, you'd expect them to win quite a few classics in that same time, esp as we've recently been informed that the one day classics are a "lottery". How many one day classics have DSC/USPS won in that period? I can't think of any.... which is pretty amazing when even a team as bad as TMO has won several classics in that time!
Does this mean that you are going to apologise for the wins of other teams that you have previously neglected to mention when you were spouting Peter Pan-like **** about these other teams' lack of results proving DSC were the best in the universe? Why are you being so hypocritical when you are guilty of exactly the same crime?musette said:
When I purport to provide a win by win, placement by placement, comparison of results/wins, I will try to cover all applicable results of any team. The key is what something purports to be. If I state that, "I believe DC has better results in 06 than in 05, for the early season." And that's the statement --> that's totally different from saying something that means: "I'm going to provide a comparison of the results of DC in 06 and in 05 early season. Here are x, y and z placements in 05 and a, b and c placements in 06 [very specific]. Then I omit d, e, f, g and h from 06. And I omit aa, bb, cc, dd, ee, ff from 05. Then I say: Conclusion -- DC had better results in 06. The results I listed prove it!"
Irrelevant and more hypocricy. You should apologise to Eldrack.musette said:
Previously you have compared an exhaustive list of DSC's wins and an incomplete list of another team's wins and said that this proves DSC are the bestest ever. (Not to mention at times you embellished DSC's list with such things as winning "two stages of LBL")
You have no right to be criticising Eldrack when you are also guilty of doing the same thing!
Posts like these are so confusingmusette said:
Does anyone else find this thread has long degenerated into a pissing competition?
Agreed. We are talking about the past... we should talk about what's happening now which is that Basso is leading the Giro and looking good... DC riders are failing and not looking so good... we can only report on the facts and the facts say: "Discovery is in disarray".
wicklow200 said:
Excellent idea!Dead Star said:maybe we should ban users who only ever talk about one team and not cycling in general.
What I also find amusing is the people here saying that Bruyneel is a great DS because he's won 9 GT's. What a joke! It's Dr Ferrari that should get all the credit, not Bruyneel.
patch70 said:
3 riders top eleven in a grand tour ITT, not too shabby:
5 Paolo Savoldelli (Ita) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team 1.19
6 José E. Gutierrez Cataluna (Spa) Phonak Hearing Systems 1.42
7 Jens Voigt (Ger) Team CSC 2.12
8 Gustav Erik Larsson (Swe) Française des Jeux 2.22
9 Dario David Cioni (Ita) Liquigas 2.24
10 Viatcheslav Ekimov (Rus) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team 2.27
11 Tom Danielson (USA) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team 2.35
musette said:That sort of sloppy reference, or lack of reference, to facts (like omitting all of DC's 06 wins in claiming to analyze relative results to 05) is what gets discussions here on the board into the world of Peter Pan-land.
Would that be sloppy in the sense of assigning last year's Giro win to Bruyneel when Sean Yates was the DS?
Not to shabby at all but the idea is to win the race not place as many riders as you can in the top 11.... CSC have 5 riders in the top 38 but what counts is the have one rider in the top 1 and thats all that matters...
bobke said:
whiteboytrash said:
Again... now 3 riders in the top 7 with one sitting in a podium position likely to improve to 2nd. If this is "disarray" then please elaborate as to which teams other than Discovery and CSC currently in the Giro are not also in "disarray" and why?
And none of those Disco riders is close enough on GT to really trouble Basso and CSC - they know they have the measure of Savoldelli, Danielson is over 5 minutes back and was in trouble again on Friday's stage - if Disco attack, it won't be CSC who are compelled to chase but teams who stand to lose places from 2 - 10.
I don't think Danielson was really in trouble, i think he was sleeping and caught by surprise when Bettini and Di Luca accelerated at the second category climb.micron said:
It doesn't make it much better though if he isn't at the front of the bunch on a climb like this. Either he was in trouble (which i don't really think) or he isn't very good in tactics... With riders like Di Luca wanting to win the Giro (i don't think he will, but that's another story) he should have known that he has to be up front in a climb like this... He was sleeping in the middle of the peloton....
micron said:
I'm not sure that DC have the fire power to attack to be honest.
I think that the DC team is not as strong as Liquigas for example - and I wager that Lampre are a stronger squad than DC.
You're correct DC is absolutely no threat from a CSC perspective.
Savodelli is in a dilemma in this Giro.
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