Discovery in disarray.... ?

[limerickman]

Lim -- "it's a small world". Naples is my hometown. During summers between college semesters, I was a construction worker with my father's business and we did all the fireproofing of the upper floors when they built the Ritz in the 80s. In the meantime, one of my best friends growing up is a graduate of the "CIA" -- not the one in Washington, but the Culinary Institute of America, which is recognized as one of the pre-eminent culinary schools on this side of the Atlantic. He was an executive chef at the Ritz for awhile, so depending upon when you visited there's some possibility he oversaw the meal you enjoyed. (I used to make excuses to show up at his house around mealtimes --- it was always worth it.)

When I was living in Naples and doing a lot more road cycling, I had a route that led from my house down along Gulfshore Blvd and millionaires row back up through Pelican Bay -- the turnaround point was the guardhouse at the Ritz's entrance, where I'd usually receive a high-five from the attendant on my way around. That was back when I could go out clubbing with my friends until 2:00 a.m. and get up at dawn and bike all morning. >>>sigh<<<


Generally speaking, I agree with you that good and bad food is to be found everywhere. I have an agreeable palate, meaning I'll eat most anything, and I love to "eat what the locals eat" wherever I go. Although we've had good luck with choosing restaurants when we're travelling in Europe, I confess I look forward more to shopping in a good local market and picking up some great bread, cheese, fruit, pate, etc., and eating al fresco somewhere on a park bench. Although I believe I can compare my country's culinary talents favorably to most others, I will admit that for some reason, we can't compare to most European countries when it comes to baking a great loaf of bread.

Bako - that is a very small world. Naples is a lovely part of the world and you're very lucky to live in such a nice place.

We were at a wedding at Ritz that time. My wife's pal got married to an American chap and we were invited to the wedding in April/May 2000.
The meal, as I said was superb. The hotel was top class too.

 

[whiteboytrash]

Further evidence that Discovery have lost the plot... there best performing rider of the year Hoste has been left out of the team for the 3 Grand Tours to ride the Enco tour and the Tour of Poland.... can Discovery’s tactics get any worse.... this is obviously pay back for Hoste attacking Hincapie at Flanders.... shameful that a team pursue petty vendetta's like this at the expense of the team... a hangover from the Armstrong legacy one would gather.......

"Leif probably won't ride the Tour, and most likely won't ride the Vuelta either....." continued Demol. "He can prepare for the world championships perfectly with a ride in the Eneco Tour and the Tour of Poland," he added.

 

[limerickman]

"Leif probably won't ride the Tour, and most likely won't ride the Vuelta either....." continued Demol. "He can prepare for the world championships perfectly with a ride in the Eneco Tour and the Tour of Poland," he added.

The olde eye for an eye, eh ?

If I was Hoste, I'd start negotiating and get the hell away from that lot.

 

[whiteboytrash]

The olde eye for an eye, eh ?

If I was Hoste, I'd start negotiating and get the hell away from that lot.

Won't take him long..... they did the same to Landis and he got out...... smart move and look at him now……. I think there is some sort of transfer window like football is there not ? You can't negotiate with a new team until October ?

 

[cyclingheroes]

I think there is some sort of transfer window like football is there not ? You can't negotiate with a new team until October ?

Yes but nobody cares, Peter Van Petegem is already negotiating with Davitamon and Quickstep, the rumour in Belgium is: Hoste negotiated with Davitamon (after Paris-Roubaix).

 

[bobke]

The olde eye for an eye, eh ?

If I was Hoste, I'd start negotiating and get the hell away from that lot.

Ummm, the word has been out since Flanders that Hoste was USING his ride to negotiate and get out. Since he rode against the team leader, just like Vino in TdF last year, I suppose Disco has put him on the B team. If you cant trust the guy, why would you put him in the lineup. Like Hoste is gonna get over the Giro mountains anyway? And I dont think he'll be helping George in the Tour sooo... no surorise. He'll be on a Belgian team next year. It was already in the press like Eurosport the week after P-R.

 

[limerickman]

Ummm, the word has been out since Flanders that Hoste was USING his ride to negotiate and get out. Since he rode against the team leader, just like Vino in TdF last year, I suppose Disco has put him on the B team. If you cant trust the guy, why would you put him in the lineup. Like Hoste is gonna get over the Giro mountains anyway? And I dont think he'll be helping George in the Tour sooo... no surorise. He'll be on a Belgian team next year. It was already in the press like Eurosport the week after P-R.

Hincapie imploded at Flanders and then made a complete cockup at P-R.
What's Hoste meant to do?
Hincapie was disasterous at both of the races that he targetted to win during this season.

At the end of this season, Hoste's results could well be the only saving grace in a season where DC will be very hard pushed to win a GT or a Classic.

Savoldelli won't retain the Giro - I can't see any DC rider winning the TDF.
Perhaps they could win a Vuelta but I wouldn't bet on it.

 

[DiabloScott]

Hincapie imploded at Flanders and then made a complete cockup at P-R.
What's Hoste meant to do?
Hincapie was disasterous at both of the races that he targetted to win during this season.

At the end of this season, Hoste's results could well be the only saving grace in a season where DC will be very hard pushed to win a GT or a Classic.

Savoldelli won't retain the Giro - I can't see any DC rider winning the TDF.
Perhaps they could win a Vuelta but I wouldn't bet on it.

Hincapie didn't implode at Flanders - for christ's sake he was right next to Hoste when Hoste attacked... Hincapie just hadn't thought about what he would do in that situation... probably should have.

And Hincapie was in the important group when he crashed out of PR. The guy has bad luck, and he should be a little smarter about his riding but to say he imploded is just wrong.

Disco knows they're going to lose Hoste but they're not going to waste him in the GTs when he's much better suited to the fall classics and World's - that's just management, not a slap at Hoste... or maybe it's both, but mostly management.

And if you're Bruyneel and you don't think Savoldelli really has a good chance either, do you support him with your best team anyway out of honor and respect? Or do you fold and wait for a better hand?

 

[limerickman]

And if you're Bruyneel and you don't think Savoldelli really has a good chance either, do you support him with your best team anyway out of honor and respect? Or do you fold and wait for a better hand?

You give Savoldelli the best support possible for the Giro.

The reason I think Savoldelli won't be able to defend his Giro title is because I think it's a play off between CSC and Liquigas for the Giro.

 

[whiteboytrash]

I think DC believed in their own press to much... they let Landis go, they failed to sign Basso and Vino and now they have nothing.... how could they not plan for after Armstrong's retirement ? Maybe they thought the riders would come to them ? Teams to plan to fail, they fail to plan. Its going to be a long road back for them. I predict 0 ProTour wins for 2006.

You give Savoldelli the best support possible for the Giro.

The reason I think Savoldelli won't be able to defend his Giro title is because I think it's a play off between CSC and Liquigas for the Giro.

 

[whiteboytrash]

Savoldelli is a good rider and know's how to conserve energy..... if CSC and LG are in the clinches he knows how to sit and wait..... I think he will be up there but he doesn't have the ability to attack and take the race into his own hands.....

You give Savoldelli the best support possible for the Giro.

The reason I think Savoldelli won't be able to defend his Giro title is because I think it's a play off between CSC and Liquigas for the Giro.

 

[limerickman]

I think DC believed in their own press to much... they let Landis go, they failed to sign Basso and Vino and now they have nothing.... how could they not plan for after Armstrong's retirement ? Maybe they thought the riders would come to them ? Teams to plan to fail, they fail to plan. Its going to be a long road back for them. I predict 0 ProTour wins for 2006.

I think that you could be correct - which makes their treatment of Hoste all the more stupid, I think.

Not taking away from Savoldelli - he's a fine rider but I can't see him successfully defending his Giro title.

And I agree - I think DC will be hard pressed to win any races this season

 

[Eldrack]

I think Savoldelli can attack.... but only on the downhills. He did it last year (can't remember which stage) got some time on the others and so had the beginning of the next climb easy. He ended up winning the stage.

 

[barnstorm]

Not naming names or anything but there some folks around here who have a very high cycling IQ and lots of interesting insights whose posts suddenly look speculative, petty, and biased when talking bout DC team. I am not talking about the silly stabs. Those are funny and fair enough. Why do you let all of the pro Lance diehards get you off your game so much? Had to say it and I think you know who you are.

I am not sure what to think about the Hoste situation. Definitely he is acting like and being treated like an outsider on the team. Stupid on DC's part because he is a huge talent. Now, if they are being fair with him and really can't manage him (like his attack at Flanders), then I suppose they have their reasons too. I agree he should and probably will leave. Until George retires, the classics are his on this team like the tour was Lance's and that really is showing this year. The team clearly doesn't know what to do with Hoste.

As for Hoste in the GTs. He clearly has TT skills which make it seem like he should at least be in the Giro to help the TTT for Salvodelli. He could also be a very strong rouleur and probably do some damage on early stage climbs, probably not finishing climbs. They might have done honest evaluation and have him best slotted as a one day or short stage race guy. Or, they might not want him in the GT teams because they don't know if he will follow orders.

What are opinions about the issue of following team orders? I am sure different teams approach the concept differently. Clearly on DC, you get an order, you follow it, or you are fired. Do other teams leave it more up to riders and instincts? It seems to me that you can't win a GT without having the domestiques follow orders. I just watched Jens Voigt literally stop at the side of the road in 2004 when in a break and on good form to wait for Basso/DC group and chase down a big Ullrich attack. It seems that other teams play it in a similiar way in the GTs. One day races, it seems, require more instinct, and GTs require a well executed team plan. In other words, I have trouble faulting DC for running a tight team at the GTs. The Flanders deal is tough to say. Hoste's attack didn't do anything but guarantee a Boonen win and a DC 2nd as he had no chance in a two up. Seems like the team would be ****** just because it had no chance of success. Pippo's move at San Remo for QS, on the other hand was a winning move and kept the sprinters from organizing... I see it differently.

 

[thebluetrain]

Not naming names or anything but there some folks around here who have a very high cycling IQ and lots of interesting insights whose posts suddenly look speculative, petty, and biased

Biased??? Really, no there is none of that on this forum.

Why do you let all of the pro Lance diehards get you off your game so much? Had to say it and I think you know who you are.

I can think of one female poster who has been doing it for a while now. It does make for some good entertainment.

 

[wolfix]

DC seems to be following the exact program that has worked well for them at the TDF for the last 7 years. People may be critical of Bruyneel, but he knows how to win the TDF better then anyone in the history of the sport. The guy who was the DS of Merckxs team couldn't even win it 7 times even though he had Eddy riding for him. The director of Banesto couldn't win it 7 times even though he had Indurain. And Bruyneels top rider retired at the top of his game..... Eddy and Indurain went out in flames....They were forced to retire. So, history is going to show Bruyneel as one of the greatest DS in the game.
So , if you want to win the TDF , most DS's would be wise to copy Bruyneels program if they get a contender riding for them.... I do think Riis has done just that.
Cycling is so specialized today I do not believe a team can be competitive in all aspects of the sport. This spring we were yakking about QS being the team of the decade..... Now QS is yesterday's news....But they will arise around the World's and next spring......
And we forget ......Basso has yet to win anything as far as Grand Tours go. Maybe he doesn't have it which leaves the door ope
It is going to be a very interesting TDF this year.......

 

[limerickman]

As regards successful DS's, Bruyneel is nowhere near the same league as others in the sport.

Granted Bruyneel jas had more success than Riis but Bruyneel is nowhere near the suucess level of a Saiz, Lefevere.

Both Saiz and Lefevere would be some distance behind the likes of Echevarria, Guimard, Ferretti.
So in terms of palmares, Bruyneel while successful in one race - he is far from near the legendary status of Guimard, Echevarria etc.

As regards your view about QS - QS palmares over the past 10 years is superb.

 

[whiteboytrash]

Problem being that when Lance was riding he was good enough to be a hard-****.. meaning if a rider on is team wanted to do their own thing they would of known that that would mean no Tour and no other races... they all towed the line.... now that Lance has retired he tries to run the team the same way but it doesn't work with riders trying to develop their talent ie Hoste.... the guy wants a go to further his career but he keeps get put back in his place and told to hold the party line... its not working as working for Hincapie is not a guarantee for success...... If I was DC I would put Hoste in the Giro team... he currently in great form and can ride a TT and would be great for the TTT and the early stages…….. it’s a shame they run the team like this. Not only will Hoste leave but other riders would be weary about joining DC in the future….

DC seems to be following the exact program that has worked well for them at the TDF for the last 7 years. People may be critical of Bruyneel, but he knows how to win the TDF better then anyone in the history of the sport. The guy who was the DS of Merckxs team couldn't even win it 7 times even though he had Eddy riding for him. The director of Banesto couldn't win it 7 times even though he had Indurain. And Bruyneels top rider retired at the top of his game..... Eddy and Indurain went out in flames....They were forced to retire. So, history is going to show Bruyneel as one of the greatest DS in the game.
So , if you want to win the TDF , most DS's would be wise to copy Bruyneels program if they get a contender riding for them.... I do think Riis has done just that.
Cycling is so specialized today I do not believe a team can be competitive in all aspects of the sport. This spring we were yakking about QS being the team of the decade..... Now QS is yesterday's news....But they will arise around the World's and next spring......
And we forget ......Basso has yet to win anything as far as Grand Tours go. Maybe he doesn't have it which leaves the door ope
It is going to be a very interesting TDF this year.......

 

[thebluetrain]

So in terms of palmares, Bruyneel while successful in one race - he is far from near the legendary status of Guimard, Echevarria etc.

Lim, how quick you are to forget and criticize. Do Heras' 2003 victory in the Vuelta and Savoldelli's 2005 victory in the Giro not count on Bruyneel's palmares?
Out of 21 possible GT race victories over his 7 years as a DS, Discovery has 9. Hincapie has wins in Gemt-Wevelgem in 2001, Kuurne-Brussels-Kuurne in 2005, 1st Overall Three Days of the Panne 2004 and there are more victories from other DC riders over those 7 years in smaller races. For you to say Bruyneel is only successful in "one race" is off the mark.

 

[whiteboytrash]

Bruyneel wasn't DC at the Vuelta or the one day races... Sainz is DC all year round....... one card trick u c..........

Lim, how quick you are to forget and criticize. Do Heras' 2003 victory in the Vuelta and Savoldelli's 2005 victory in the Giro not count on Bruyneel's palmares?
Out of 21 possible GT race victories over his 7 years as a DS, Discovery has 9. Hincapie has wins in Gemt-Wevelgem in 2001, Kuurne-Brussels-Kuurne in 2005, 1st Overall Three Days of the Panne 2004 and there are more victories from other DC riders over those 7 years in smaller races. For you to say Bruyneel is only successful in "one race" is off the mark.