What is the ideal cycling jacket (for UK commuting)

[Michael Press]

In article <[email protected]>,
"Pete Biggs"
<[email protected]>
wrote:

> ship wrote:
>
> > But I'm telling you I can SEE that it's red!! And not because I KNOW
> > it's red either.
> > I just tried the experiment again with a white and a red cateye LED
> > light and I shuffled
> > them around and I can still EASILY tell you which is which even in the
> > corner
> > of the eye.
>
> I can't detect colours right at the very edge of my vision, but can when the
> object is moved round a little more. At the edge I can barely make out
> shapes either; just a vague awareness that something is there.
>
> Where does peripheral vision stop and main vision start?

At the margin of the fovea. You might be surprised at
how little we see with our eyes, and how much is
interpreted and interpolated.

Here is the classic paper on the frog eye, What The
Frog's Eye Tells The Frogs Brain. It is a large PDF
file.

<http://jerome.lettvin.info/lettvin/Jerome/WhatTheFrogsEyeTellsTheFrogsBrain.pdf>

The frog eye sees four things.

1) The contrast detector tells, in the smallest area of
all, of the presence of a sharp boundary, moving or
still, with much or little contrast.

2) The convexity detector informs us in a somewhat
larger area whether or not the object has a curved
boundary, if it is darker than the background and
moving on it; it remembers the object when it has
stopped, providing the boundary lies totally within
that area and is sharp; it shows most activity if the
enclosed object moves intermittently with respect to
the background. The memory of the object is abolished
if a shadow obscures the object for a moment.

3) The movement detector tells whether or not there is
a moving boundary in a yet larger area within the
field.

4) The dimming detector tells us how much dimming
occurs in the largest area, weighted by distance from
the center and by how fast it happens.

Note that 2 is a moving insect, 3 is a predator.

Human eyes transmit more than four signals.
One of them is static diagonal stripes.

--
Michael Press

 

[[email protected]]

On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 02:25:50 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]>
wrote:

[snip]

>Carl, I hardly ever pick on you, because I understand that your schtick
>is "caritas" and to focus on civility rather than uncharitable
>misinterpretation (the official usenet mode of discourse).
>
>But the word I used to describe the light source had 9 letters.
>
>Let's roll back the rbt telestrator:
>
>"That shadow came from all-natural light_N_ing, I'm sure."
>
>Wry humor or an appeal to serendipitous weather effects as a normal part
>of commercial photography? Without smilies, we may never know.
>
>I believe we can achieve amicable concord by agreeing that light source
>was a flash ,

Dear Ryan,

Forgive me--one-letter subtlety is lost on coarse and clueless
readers.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

 

[Michael Press]

In article
<[email protected]>,
John Forrest Tomlinson <[email protected]>
wrote:

> On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 23:37:14 GMT, Michael Press <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Is there a link directly to the jacket Ryan proposes?
> >When I load a page like LG's, I back out immediately.
> >The products may be adequate or good, but I avoid
> >paying for image. Patagonia wear is good stuff with far
> >less appeal to elitism.
>
> You've got to be kidding me.

I am serious. Regardless of the fitness of their
products, their clients, and their clients' avowed
reasons for choosing LG, LG's web site is designed to
appeal to elitism.

> Garneau stuff comes out of bike racing
> -- local, regional and top-level racing. People at all levels of that
> sport wear the stuff. If you think racing is elitist, then I guess
> it's elitest, but you'll see local clubs and juniors in the stuff.
> And the same in ski racing.
>
> I'm not familiar with the origins of Patogonia product but I see a lot
> more of it walking down the street in my big city.

I am to infer what from this? Help me out.

--
Michael Press

 

[Tom Keats]

In article <[email protected]>,
"ship" <[email protected]> writes:
>
> Tim McNamara wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> "ship" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > OP here, yes in London I would guess I get wet probably about 18 to 24
>> > days per year.
>>
>> Have you considered a rain cape? Excellent protection from the rain
>> (keeps your legs fry and all, and if you have fenders and a mud flap
>> you'll be snug as houses), better ventilation than possible with a
>> jacket. The downside is wind resistance, but at commuting speeds that's
>> a minimal issue unless you live somewhere prone to being very windy.
>
> Hmm... Downsides of cape:
> - Takes up too much space in my luggage - I REALLY dont have much space
> in my panier/rucksack

Mine, when rolled up tightly doesn't take up much more space
than a typical cycling windshell jacket.

> - I am concerned that I might get blown around by passing lorries.

At infra-urban commuting speeds that just doesn't happen.

> - A hassle setting it up.

Mine has an interior string/belt thing that keeps it from blowing
up over my face. It also has a couple of elastic loops that can
either go over my thumbs, or on the brake levers (I opt for the
brake levers.) The only other consideration is to make sure the
back of the cape is properly draped behind the saddle, and I'm not
sitting on it. No hassle. The hassle is in trying to fumble around,
finding your keys etc in your trousers pockets while wearing a cape.
And the cape tends to fall right into whatever you're trying to do
in front of you, like locking your bike to a parking rack, or trying
to un-do chain suck.

> - massive wind resistance (presumably)

Simply -- no. Sure, there's some wind resistance, but on a
wet & windy day or night, you'd be stuck with wind resistance
no matter what you do.

> ...All in all yes probably a still good idea if regular heavy rain
> predicted I guess.

I live in a fairly pluvial climate, and my rain cape (plus some
other accoutrements) allows me to not only ride in wet weather,
but to actually arrive to my destinations in bone-dry street clothes.
I'm drier than if I walk or take public transit.

The biggest hassle with rain capes is the inability to
do hand signals.

The second biggest hassle is putting it back on when
it's still wet (ugh). I recommend having two or more
rain capes.


--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

 

[[email protected]]

On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 01:23:30 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]>
wrote:

[snip]

>Required by my bike club code of conduct to represent sponsors in a
>positive light to the public, I shall only say that the jacket user
>experience is vastly better than that for the website.

[snip]

Dear Ryan,

Since I made fun of the web site, it's probably worth saying that I
expect that the stuff that your club's sponsor sells (and their print
catalogue) is indeed better than that website.

It's odd how otherwise sensible companies become clueless when they
hit the internet.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

 

[Michael Press]

In article
<[email protected]>,
Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 23:37:14 GMT, Michael Press <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > >Is there a link directly to the jacket Ryan proposes?
> > >When I load a page like LG's, I back out immediately.
> > >The products may be adequate or good, but I avoid
> > >paying for image. Patagonia wear is good stuff with far
> > >less appeal to elitism.
>
> I finally found the direct link thing:
>
> http://louisgarneau.com/eng/ctm_catalog.asp?catalogue=C7&section=JV&subse
> ction=013&style_no=7E30054

Thanks.

> That takes you right to the WindTex jacket. It turns out there's a
> little bit of text in the corner of each product page that says "Link to
> this page."

Appears to be a good jacket.

> Required by my bike club code of conduct to represent sponsors in a
> positive light to the public, I shall only say that the jacket user
> experience is vastly better than that for the website.
>
> Garneau also is the title sponsor behind the longest bike race in
> Canada, which is also (as a parallel event) one of the biggest group
> rides in Canada.

--
Michael Press

 

[Tim McNamara]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Tom Keats) wrote:

> Anyway, I remember when tennis players didn't all have to make loud
> grunting noises until a certain one started doing it. Now, a tennis
> match sounds like a passing herd of wildebeest.

ROTFL!

 

[Tim McNamara]

In article <[email protected]>,
Michael Press <[email protected]> wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Pete Biggs" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > ship wrote:
> >
> > > But I'm telling you I can SEE that it's red!! And not because I
> > > KNOW it's red either. I just tried the experiment again with a
> > > white and a red cateye LED light and I shuffled them around and I
> > > can still EASILY tell you which is which even in the corner of
> > > the eye.
> >
> > I can't detect colours right at the very edge of my vision, but can
> > when the object is moved round a little more. At the edge I can
> > barely make out shapes either; just a vague awareness that
> > something is there.
> >
> > Where does peripheral vision stop and main vision start?
>
> At the margin of the fovea. You might be surprised at how little we
> see with our eyes, and how much is interpreted and interpolated.

Ummm, the research on that is not definitive yet. Lots of what seemed
to have been definitive back in the psychophysics days has been
readdressed and found wanting. There were issues in experimental design
that resulted in skewed data, in part due to designing the experiments
based on inaccurate assumptions about how these things worked.

> Human eyes transmit more than four signals. One of them is static
> diagonal stripes.

Human eyes are part of a perceptual system that extracts information
from the environment. Even the theories about interpretation and
interpolation (e.g., constructivism) have been called into question.
It's not so much the world inside your head as it is with world your
head is in.

 

[Tim McNamara]

In article <[email protected]>,
"ship" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Tim McNamara wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > "ship" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > OP here, yes in London I would guess I get wet probably about 18
> > > to 24 days per year.
> >
> > Have you considered a rain cape? Excellent protection from the
> > rain (keeps your legs fry and all, and if you have fenders and a
> > mud flap you'll be snug as houses), better ventilation than
> > possible with a jacket. The downside is wind resistance, but at
> > commuting speeds that's a minimal issue unless you live somewhere
> > prone to being very windy.
>
> Hmm... Downsides of cape:
> - Takes up too much space in my luggage - I REALLY dont have much space
> in my panier/rucksack
> - I am concerned that I might get blown around by passing lorries.
> - A hassle setting it up.
> - massive wind resistance (presumably)

A rucksack or messenger bag would be potentially difficult to
accommodate with a cape. It would have to go under the cape, which
might be problematic. I've never tried. For carrying it, as I note
below, I strap mine to the outside of my luggage. But I do that with my
rain jacket as well.

There is a bit more wind resistance, although at commuting speeds it's
not a problem. A stiff headwind is more difficult with a cape. I've
never had any trouble with being blown around by the draft from passing
vehicles, but then I am also 6'4" and 210 lbs so I just don't get blown
around much anyway.

It's as easy to put on a cape as it is to put on a jacket. There is an
internal string to tie around your waist fo keep it from flapping, but
that's no more difficult that zipping up a jacket.

> ...All in all yes probably a still good idea if regular heavy rain
> predicted I guess.
>
> But no I dont think I have ROOM for one on an every day basis. (Just
> much space do they take up when folded up...?)

Mine rolls down to about the same size as my rain jacket. On most of my
bikes I keep my rain jacket or my cape lashed to the outside of my
Carradice saddlebag, where it is very readily available. On one bike it
rides in the handlebar bag, usually, or on the saddle bag if I happen to
be using both.

 

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] wrote:

> On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 01:23:30 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> >Required by my bike club code of conduct to represent sponsors in a
> >positive light to the public, I shall only say that the jacket user
> >experience is vastly better than that for the website.
>
> [snip]
>
> Dear Ryan,
>
> Since I made fun of the web site, it's probably worth saying that I
> expect that the stuff that your club's sponsor sells (and their print
> catalogue) is indeed better than that website.
>
> It's odd how otherwise sensible companies become clueless when they
> hit the internet.

Here I shall speak in generalities: web designers have a real desire to
sell what they may describe as "compelling" interfaces. This same
instinct lead to portalphilia a few years ago, when every web site
thought the road to riches was paved by being the most customizable,
info-laden start page possible.

Somewhere along the line, little stuff like navigation gets so forgotten
that last-minute kluges like a "link to this page" link has to be added.

That's utterly self-defeating, inasmuch as Google's search spider
doesn't even like that sort of shenanigan.

Flash is usually a crutch for the weak,

--
Ryan Cousineau [email protected] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

 

[Chris Malcolm]

Simon Brooke <[email protected]> wrote:
> in message <[email protected]>, Clive
> George ('[email protected]') wrote:

>> "Simon Brooke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>> Not the only problem : the eejits are more of a fashion brand than
>>>> people aiming for performance. (look at the colour - it may look cool,
>>>> but there's no way I'm wearing that out on the road).
>>>
>>> Don't you believe it. I don't have much Rapha stuff because of the cost;
>>> but if I were richer or less stingy I'd have more. It's the nicest, most
>>> practical, most comfortable cycling kit out there. And as for the
>>> colour, what is your problem with black?
>>
>> In general - not at all. My cycling trousers/shorts are all black, and
>> I've got a fair proportion of black tops I wear when off the bike.
>>
>> For riding out on the road? Um, that it's not terribly visible? Isn't
>> this just screamingly obvious to you? (no, otherwise you wouldn't have
>> asked the question...)

> No. Most of my favourite cycling clothing is black. What's the problem?

>> Most of us ride in places where there's rather more than one car per day.

> You may have a point. I was out with friends on an 85 mile ride yesterday,
> and we saw fewer than twenty cars in motion. However, any motorist who
> does not see a cyclist in daylight ought to have his licence revoked on
> the spot, irrespective of what the cyclist is wearing.

> SMIDSY is almost always just an excuse. If there was a two ton steel statue
> of a cyclist painted black and bolted to the road, no car would hit it.
> Things that might kill them are very easy for drivers to see.

I'm not so sure about that. I think expectation and distraction has a
lot to do with it. I recall a letter from a fireman anout how many
cars drove into the back of a stationary fire engine with all its
lights flashing. "SMIDSY", they would say, apologetically.

--
Chris Malcolm [email protected] DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

 

[Tony Raven]

Tim McNamara wrote on 21/10/2006 07:22 +0100:
>>>
>>> Where does peripheral vision stop and main vision start?
>> At the margin of the fovea. You might be surprised at how little we
>> see with our eyes, and how much is interpreted and interpolated.
>
> Ummm, the research on that is not definitive yet. Lots of what seemed
> to have been definitive back in the psychophysics days has been
> readdressed and found wanting. There were issues in experimental design
> that resulted in skewed data, in part due to designing the experiments
> based on inaccurate assumptions about how these things worked.
>

Peripheral vision is anything outside the macula lutea, a 1.5mm diameter
yellow coloured spot containing the fovea. Histologically it is where
there are two or more layers of ganglion cells in the retina (the fovea
has five).

To see for yourself how limited your central vision is, take a random
page of a book and concentrate on one word in the middle of the page.
Now without shifting your gaze from the word, try and identify the words
around it.

--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci

 

[John Forrest Tomlinson]

On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 05:30:40 GMT, Michael Press <[email protected]> wrote:

>In article
><[email protected]>,
> John Forrest Tomlinson <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 23:37:14 GMT, Michael Press <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >Is there a link directly to the jacket Ryan proposes?
>> >When I load a page like LG's, I back out immediately.
>> >The products may be adequate or good, but I avoid
>> >paying for image. Patagonia wear is good stuff with far
>> >less appeal to elitism.
>>
>> You've got to be kidding me.
>
>I am serious. Regardless of the fitness of their
>products, their clients, and their clients' avowed
>reasons for choosing LG, LG's web site is designed to
>appeal to elitism.

What do you mean by elitism? That the product is designed for a
specific use? Is that elitism?
>
>> Garneau stuff comes out of bike racing
>> -- local, regional and top-level racing. People at all levels of that
>> sport wear the stuff. If you think racing is elitist, then I guess
>> it's elitest, but you'll see local clubs and juniors in the stuff.
>> And the same in ski racing.
>>
>> I'm not familiar with the origins of Patogonia product but I see a lot
>> more of it walking down the street in my big city.
>
>I am to infer what from this? Help me out.

People buy the clothes, which are supposed to look outdoorsy (camping,
hiking, skiing, etc in rural/remote/wild places) and use them for
walking a few minutes from door to door or door to car. Buying the
look of doing something, as opposed to doing it.
--
JT
****************************
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[Peter Clinch]

ship wrote:
>>> (Plus it's extremely durable and completely
>>> puncture-proof if for example you happen to walk through a gorse bush!
>>> - unlike any membrane based shell such as Goretex...)
>> It isn't puncture proof, but the waterproofing will not be
>> compromosed by small holes. Not /quite/ the same thing.
>
> I'm not quite sure the point you are making.
> You can stick certainly pins through it and it wont affect the water
> proofing.
> This is not true of any "membrane" material

"extremely durable and completely puncture-proof" suggests that you
can bounce off a gravel track at considerable velocity and cause no
appreciable damage. This is not necessarily the case!

It /is/ the case that after such an incident you can sew it up and
it'll be waterproof again, which is indeed not true of goretex et-al.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Peter Clinch]

ship wrote:

[Merino wool]
> Isnt it a bit prickly next to the skin?

Merino wool isn't like wool as most people are familiar with it,
it's finer to the point of being almost silky. That is not to say
that nobdoy will find it itchy as some people do have a mild
reaction against /any/ wool. But that's chemical rather than physical.

> And are you sure that there isnt anything that
> wicks better without actually absorbing water
> than merino wool?

Merino is generally reckoned to be at least the equal of most
synthetics available and it doesn't particularly soak up lots of water.

> Do you have to keep oiling it?

It never needs any oiling at all, you just chuck it in the machine
like any other base layer.

> Does it smell bad?

It doesn't noticably smell at all. The general perception is that
after a lot of sweating into it then it will start to be whiffy
considerably /less/ than any synthetics bar possibly the
silver-treated ones like X-Static.

> Can you throw it into the washing machine?

Yes.

> Will the clothes moths gobble it up?

I guess they might if you hang it in a cupboard and forget about it
for a couyple of years, but when was the last time you saw a
moth-eaten woolly pully?

> Btw, I've often wondered about string-type construction vests - they
> may look cr*p but
> they would presumably:
> - keep the bulk of the wet clothing off your skin
> - offer quite a lot of insulation with used little ventilation
> - but minimal insulation when used with lots of ventilation

Main problem is where will you find them made in other than cotton?
Cotton sucks big time as a technical base layer.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Don Whybrow]

ship wrote:
> I wrote:
>>
>>At a guess ...
>>
>>An image is not constructed in your eyes. They just collect the light.
>>The image construction and how you see it are done in the brain and that
>>adds in bits that it "knows" but are missing. In this case it adds the
>>red to the light.
>>
>>BICBW.
>
> Dont be rediculous!
>
> I dont know where you got that one from - hardcore science or urban
> myth...

Possibly real science as touched on here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_perception

> But I'm telling you I can SEE that it's red!! And not because I KNOW
> it's red either.
> I just tried the experiment again with a white and a red cateye LED
> light and I shuffled
> them around and I can still EASILY tell you which is which even in the
> corner
> of the eye.
>
> Nothing beats a bit of 1st hand empirical experiment!

I look forward to seeing your full report. I am particularly interested in:

1. sample size
2. use of randomising to select the colour to appear
3. was the coloured light introduced from the front of vision of from
the rear?
4. what controls were in place to ensure the subjects head was immobilised
5. what controls were in place to ensure the subject did not move their eyes
6. effect of environment
7. control group data

It would help if you could get a few people with a scientific background
to do a peer review.

--
Don Whybrow

Sequi Bonum Non Time

"This seems like a case where we need to shoot the messenger." (Charlie
Kaufman on Cypherpunks list)

 

[Pete Biggs]

Peter Clinch wrote:
> ship wrote:
>> Btw, I've often wondered about string-type construction vests - they
>> may look cr*p but
>> they would presumably:
>> - keep the bulk of the wet clothing off your skin
>> - offer quite a lot of insulation with used little ventilation
>> - but minimal insulation when used with lots of ventilation
>
> Main problem is where will you find them made in other than cotton?

From a bike shop that sells Briko clothing. The Briko Mesh vest is like a
traditional string vest except it's made of soft Coolmax polyester.

~PB

 

[John Forrest Tomlinson]

On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 22:55:51 +0100, "Pete Biggs"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Peter Clinch wrote:
>> ship wrote:
>>> Btw, I've often wondered about string-type construction vests - they
>>> may look cr*p but
>>> they would presumably:
>>> - keep the bulk of the wet clothing off your skin
>>> - offer quite a lot of insulation with used little ventilation
>>> - but minimal insulation when used with lots of ventilation
>>
>> Main problem is where will you find them made in other than cotton?
>
>From a bike shop that sells Briko clothing. The Briko Mesh vest is like a
>traditional string vest except it's made of soft Coolmax polyester.

Santini sells one too. And you can get long- and short-sleeved shirts
of polypropylne from Super Brynje.

http://www.reliableracing.com/detail.cfm?edp=10120533&category=0400

--
JT
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[Rabjohns]

Tim McNamara wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Peter Clinch <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > ship wrote:
> >
> > > But maybe the answer could lie in very sophisticated venting. e.g.
> > > under-arm vents.
> >
> > That's not sophisticated though. Hot air rises, and under arm vents
> > are pointing in the wrong direction. Of course, if they point the
> > right way the rain gets in...
>
> Because the cyclist is moving, the fact that the underarm vents point
> down is not misses the point because convection is not the mechanism of
> air movement. The cyclist creates an effective breeze which can be used
> to move air and ventilate the jacket. There are several possible
> venting locations, with intake vents at the sleeve cuffs, underarm vents
> and possibly the neck. Exhaust vents can be across the shoulder blades
> and the bottom hem. Double ended front zips are also helpful. IME
> underarm vents only are inadequate; there has to be air inflow up the
> arms, in under the armpitss and out the back of the jacket.
>
> As I mentioned earlier, my Showers Pass jacket makes better use of
> ventilation than any other jacket I have worn. My clothing remains
> quite dry. I bought mine after very positive reports from friends who
> had Showers Pass jackets on a 200 km brevet in pouring rain; whereas I
> was a soaked inside my jacket from sweat as if I had just ridden in the
> rain, they were practically dry and very comfortable. I've not had
> occasion to wear it for 8+ hours on a ride in the rain, but for an hour
> or two I have been pleased to find myself quite dry.

My Showers Pass E-Vent jacket is outstanding

 

[Michael Press]

In article
<[email protected]>,
John Forrest Tomlinson <[email protected]>
wrote:

> On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 05:30:40 GMT, Michael Press <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >In article
> ><[email protected]>,
> > John Forrest Tomlinson <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 23:37:14 GMT, Michael Press <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Is there a link directly to the jacket Ryan proposes?
> >> >When I load a page like LG's, I back out immediately.
> >> >The products may be adequate or good, but I avoid
> >> >paying for image. Patagonia wear is good stuff with far
> >> >less appeal to elitism.
> >>
> >> You've got to be kidding me.
> >
> >I am serious. Regardless of the fitness of their
> >products, their clients, and their clients' avowed
> >reasons for choosing LG, LG's web site is designed to
> >appeal to elitism.
>
> What do you mean by elitism?

Elitism is the feeling that one is a better person than
another.

> That the product is designed for a
> specific use? Is that elitism?

Had you read what I wrote, you would not ask that
question. "LG's web site is designed to
appeal to elitism."

> >> Garneau stuff comes out of bike racing
> >> -- local, regional and top-level racing. People at all levels of that
> >> sport wear the stuff. If you think racing is elitist, then I guess
> >> it's elitest, but you'll see local clubs and juniors in the stuff.
> >> And the same in ski racing.
> >>
> >> I'm not familiar with the origins of Patogonia product but I see a lot
> >> more of it walking down the street in my big city.
> >
> >I am to infer what from this? Help me out.
>
> People buy the clothes, which are supposed to look outdoorsy (camping,
> hiking, skiing, etc in rural/remote/wild places) and use them for
> walking a few minutes from door to door or door to car. Buying the
> look of doing something, as opposed to doing it.

OK. Not the subject I am addressing.

--
Michael Press