pasta

In article <[email hidden]>,

Blueberry said:

"Saffire" <[email hidden]> ha scritto nel
messaggio news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

*** This post originated in alt.support.diet.low-carb -- it's appearance
in any other forum is deceptive and unauthorized. ***

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
says...

Quoted message said:

Forgive me if I am not obsessed like you from the carb and weird diets!
Maybe I'm not obssesed from this problem maybe because I've NOT this
problem!!!

Blueberry, I often don't agree with Doug and, in fact, have long had his
posts filtered out, but I, too, have wondered what your motivation is
for posting in ASDLC. You seemed to truly want to know why we low-carb,
but you also keep insisting that your way is better. You are right
that, in general, people need to eat less and exercise more. That's a
given, but one size does NOT fit all in how one goes about DOING so
successfully. There are MANY reasons why people here eat low-carb and
some reasons are more important than others to various individuals, but
you don't seem to accept any of those reasons or why it works so well
for most of us. If you are not interested in going low-carb, why ARE
you posting here? You aren't going to change OUR minds.

I respect completly your opinion...but I can't stand someone that say in all
the world people have this problem! when in the world someone have the
oppposite problem! and die for this. I think is a huge lack of respect!
If someone have healthy problem...ok! you are celiac or diabetic...ok...you
have to avoid these kind of food.
but give the fault at these foods if some one get fat... I think it's lieing
to yourself! it's pretty simple ...some populations base their diet on these
food and don't get fat.... american get fat! why? :-/ maybe the problem is
not here.

I've already explained it to you. Americans probably would NOT get fat
on a carb-based diet, IF we did not eat so much fast food, processed
foods, and junk food with high-fructose corn syrup in it.

This next part is my opinion, based on anecdotal evidence, not
scientific studies. I believe living for many years on junk food and
highly processed foods screws up the way the body deals with carbs. I
believe we essentially get addicted, and we eat too much because the
hunger signals are screwed up. Eating too much is how we get fat, yes,
but too many "bad" carbs are how we get to the point where we eat so
much and yet stay hungry all the time. The system gets overloaded and
doesn't work right anymore, and we feel bad and think we are just "weak
willed" when really it is a physical problem. Sometimes people can
develop an allergy to something after being overloaded with it, and I
think we can develop a carb intolerance/addiction after being overloaded
with carbs. I believe low-carb is the way to fix the body, and it may
have to be drastic at first, but eventually "good" carbs can be added
back in many cases.

--
http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick

"Blueberry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anyway no, I'm not. This is not my intention... you think I spend so much
energy...only to trolling? :-/
to disturbing a ng?

Yes, you are a troll as there is no discernable reason for you to be here,
with the opinions you have, other than to stir things up and cause
disruption. You didn't come here to find out about low carbing you can here
to argue against it. Which makes you a troll in any language.

Rich

rich said:

"Blueberry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anyway no, I'm not. This is not my intention... you think I spend so much
energy...only to trolling? :-/
to disturbing a ng?

Yes, you are a troll as there is no discernable reason for you to be here,
with the opinions you have, other than to stir things up and cause
disruption. You didn't come here to find out about low carbing you can here
to argue against it. Which makes you a troll in any language.

Well, I've got to disagree w/ you there. I've met a number of people who
are simply convinced that their worldview is right and everyone who has a
different perspective is ignorant or misguided. Naturally, being in
possession of the *truth* they want to lead the unwashed into the light.
(How's that for a mixed metaphor.)

Looking at it that way, Blue seems internally consistent to me. She
*knows* what people have to do to lose weight (and she's not entirely
wrong - eating less is the key, the question is how you get there) and she
thinks we're just too stupid or lazy or self-indulgent to get w/ the plan.

In any case, I think she's got her priorities backwards - I don't know why
someone from the culture that invented mascarpone (low carb) would spend
so much time obsessing about pasta. One's the creamy ambrosia of the
Ghods, the other only gets its taste from the stuff you eat w/it.

Martha, who is lazy and self-indulgent and sometimes stupid, but I swam 40
minutes today, a good part of it 'fly, so I may have some peaches and
mascarpone for desert.

--
Sig pending

Sherry said:

"Martha Gallagher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Martha, who may have some peaches and mascarpone for dessert.

Do you make your own or purchase it already made?

Buy it at the farmers' market. I've never cared all that much for the
stuff that's commercially available, but this one is like ice cream
refined, purified and intensified. It's that good. If you're in the
DC/MD/VA area, it's available at some of Fresh Farms Markets.

I might skip it after all tonight though. I'm trying to create a calorie
deficit w/ the exercise, but it won't help if I make it up on the treats.
Maybe when my BF% is down a little more.

Martha

--
Sig pending

"Martha Gallagher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Martha, who may have some peaches and mascarpone for dessert.

Do you make your own or purchase it already made?

--
Sherry
364/315/195
http://lowcarb.owly.net

"Luna" <[email hidden]> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've already explained it to you. Americans probably would NOT get fat
on a carb-based diet, IF we did not eat so much fast food, processed
foods, and junk food with high-fructose corn syrup in it.

Yes, I've understood this...but whatI don't understand it's why americans
eat in this way!!!! why they keep to eat fast food or junk food! of course
sometime
I eat junk food as well! but I know it's wrong, so I do some time! rearly!
(but I never eat fast food!!!)
it's this that I don't understand!!! I swear I don't understand.
for example...if I'm stressed and I start to eat junk food (comfort food
:-P) but when I see that I'm getting fat I stop, and I start to eat more
vegetables fruit... I put order in my diet, nothing sweet drinks, I back at
my usual diet. And all of it back normal! I know that I get fat when I go
out from my usual diet. Why is not so for you?

Quoted message said:

This next part is my opinion, based on anecdotal evidence, not
scientific studies. I believe living for many years on junk food and
highly processed foods screws up the way the body deals with carbs. I
believe we essentially get addicted, and we eat too much because the
hunger signals are screwed up.

ok you have answered to my question right now! :-)
So exentially something is wrong in the food!?! do you think that is made to
pull
people to eating more and more? so to buy more food? :-///
I've read something about *Monosodium Glutamate* someone think is this the
problem of obesity and they add it to food is to make people eat
more. have you never heard talking about this?
we don''t find often *Monosodium Glutamate* in our food.

Eating too much is how we get fat, yes,

Quoted message said:

but too many "bad" carbs are how we get to the point where we eat so
much and yet stay hungry all the time.

Now this seems have more sense to me! what I didn't understand it was why
people get fat and don't stop to eating so much ... but if you put it in
this way... it has sense.

The system gets overloaded and

Quoted message said:

doesn't work right anymore, and we feel bad and think we are just "weak
willed" when really it is a physical problem. Sometimes people can
develop an allergy to something after being overloaded with it, and I
think we can develop a carb intolerance/addiction after being overloaded
with carbs. I believe low-carb is the way to fix the body, and it may
have to be drastic at first, but eventually "good" carbs can be added
back in many cases.

But if you had this problem with carb...(too much rafined...) don't you
think there'll be the same problem with the meat?
I swear I don't want change your mind, because I don't live there...so I
don't know the problem (how you have seen!... in fact someone think I'm a
troll :-) why not you? :-/), but if you ate too carb and got fat...don't you
think that eating too much meat... don't give you others kind of problems?
My question is not ironic.
you wrote: "I believe living for many years on junk food and highly
processed foods screws up the way the body deals with carbs." so I ask you
is it not sufficient avoiding these food to solve the problem?
Thank you for your explanation. now it's a little bit clearer.

Blueberry

"Martha Gallagher" <[email hidden]> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Fri, 22 Jul 2005, rich wrote:

Quoted message said:

Well, I've got to disagree w/ you there. I've met a number of people who
are simply convinced that their worldview is right and everyone who has a
different perspective is ignorant or misguided. Naturally, being in
possession of the *truth* they want to lead the unwashed into the light.
(How's that for a mixed metaphor.)

My mistake were thinking that you have the same foods that we are. But
evidently there are some differences.
because here if someone get fat ... he can come back at the normal weight
without so big problem like it seem you have.
I needed to understand that there's this difference between us!
I didn't want offended no one...but for how I live...you can limite your
food without staving to dead!
so you understand why I keept to insist?

Quoted message said:

Looking at it that way, Blue seems internally consistent to me. She
*knows* what people have to do to lose weight (and she's not entirely
wrong - eating less is the key, the question is how you get there) and she
thinks we're just too stupid or lazy or self-indulgent to get w/ the plan.

here big obeses are *yet* rare! we don't feel so much this problem. I think
it's normal read the reality on base of your own experiences! like you do!
so when someone tell me that he is hungry and keep to eat and he/she tell me
that carb make them more hungry... I don't understand.

Quoted message said:

In any case, I think she's got her priorities backwards - I don't know why
someone from the culture that invented mascarpone (low carb) would spend
so much time obsessing about pasta. One's the creamy ambrosia of the
Ghods, the other only gets its taste from the stuff you eat w/it.

do you know? this is a really good question!!!! why should I have to? if we
have so many foods (tasty food...belive me!!!) why is our mainly food based
on carb?
In my life I ate mascarpone twice! here the mascarpone is not ate so much
.... because *for our diet* (can we put it in this way?) get fat! *Every*
Italian know that mascarpone is REALLY BAD for our diet! :-)
Among our tipical food we have the "lardo di colonnata" very appreciated but
it's lard so every Italian eat it *VERY* rarely. we have many other fatting
foods, several cheeses (grana padano, gorgonzola, formaggio di fossa,
tosella ...) and salami ....speck, porchetta, luccanica ... :-P Of course
they are VERY tasty, but very fatting as weel! so we can't eat them often.
:-(
if we follow our diet we are in good form .... otherwise we have problems.
but if you don't have problem to eat fat food ... you could taste them. :-)
if we weren't sure that fat is not bad *for us* belive me...we should have
already forget pasta and pizza!!!! because these are 100 time better!!!
Abroad all of people know italians pasta and pizza and few else...but this
is only a little part of our food and neither the best part.
Blueberry

"Martha Gallagher" <[email hidden]> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Fri, 22 Jul 2005, rich wrote:

Quoted message said:

In any case, I think she's got her priorities backwards -

oh about this...don't you think I (or better ... we Italians) have our good
reasons?
think about it! ;-)
Blueberry

In article <[email hidden]>,

Blueberry said:

"Luna" <[email hidden]> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've already explained it to you. Americans probably would NOT get fat
on a carb-based diet, IF we did not eat so much fast food, processed
foods, and junk food with high-fructose corn syrup in it.

Yes, I've understood this...but whatI don't understand it's why americans
eat in this way!!!! why they keep to eat fast food or junk food! of course
sometime
I eat junk food as well! but I know it's wrong, so I do some time! rearly!
(but I never eat fast food!!!)
it's this that I don't understand!!! I swear I don't understand.
for example...if I'm stressed and I start to eat junk food (comfort food
:-P) but when I see that I'm getting fat I stop, and I start to eat more
vegetables fruit... I put order in my diet, nothing sweet drinks, I back at
my usual diet. And all of it back normal! I know that I get fat when I go
out from my usual diet. Why is not so for you?

From what I have read about European cultures, it seems that in America
food is not as important to us. I've mainly read about France's way of
eating, but I think at least in some parts of Italy it is similar. I
dated an Italian, and he confirmed this.

(this is all generalizations, not true for everyone of course)

In Europe, a meal is an event. You take time to prepare and cook, you
savor the food and eat slowly, enjoying conversation with family and
friends.

In America, the lifestyle is rush rush rush. We eat in our cars, we eat
at the desk at work, we eat while watching television instead of talking
with family, we grab whatever is convenient and fast and eat it quickly
so we can get back to work. Even mothers who stay at home have time
pressure, must get the kids to soccer practice, piano lessons, etc, no
time to cook, let's grab McDonald's on the way.

We feel like we always have to be doing something, so taking the time to
make healthy food and eat it slowly seems like wasting time, being lazy,
we feel guilty about all the productive things we could be doing instead.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This next part is my opinion, based on anecdotal evidence, not
scientific studies. I believe living for many years on junk food and
highly processed foods screws up the way the body deals with carbs. I
believe we essentially get addicted, and we eat too much because the
hunger signals are screwed up.

ok you have answered to my question right now! :-)
So exentially something is wrong in the food!?! do you think that is made to
pull
people to eating more and more? so to buy more food? :-///
I've read something about *Monosodium Glutamate* someone think is this the
problem of obesity and they add it to food is to make people eat
more. have you never heard talking about this?
we don''t find often *Monosodium Glutamate* in our food.

MSG is in some convenience foods, yes. And many Chinese restaurants.
Not real Chinese food like they eat in China, but American Chinese food
which is deep fried or covered in sauce, and often served buffet style
where you can eat as much as you want. There is a common joke that
after you eat Chinese food, you are hungry an hour later.

I personally believe just sugar itself can have the same effect, if it
is too much sugar. Have you heard of a "sugar rush" or "sugar high?"
Eat too many sweets, you get a high like from drugs, a burst of energy,
maybe your face feels hot and your heart beats fast, then you crash and
feel sleepy and irritable.

Quoted message said:

Eating too much is how we get fat, yes,

Quoted message said:

but too many "bad" carbs are how we get to the point where we eat so
much and yet stay hungry all the time.

Now this seems have more sense to me! what I didn't understand it was why
people get fat and don't stop to eating so much ... but if you put it in
this way... it has sense.

The system gets overloaded and

Quoted message said:

doesn't work right anymore, and we feel bad and think we are just "weak
willed" when really it is a physical problem. Sometimes people can
develop an allergy to something after being overloaded with it, and I
think we can develop a carb intolerance/addiction after being overloaded
with carbs. I believe low-carb is the way to fix the body, and it may
have to be drastic at first, but eventually "good" carbs can be added
back in many cases.

But if you had this problem with carb...(too much rafined...) don't you
think there'll be the same problem with the meat?
I swear I don't want change your mind, because I don't live there...so I
don't know the problem (how you have seen!... in fact someone think I'm a
troll :-) why not you? :-/), but if you ate too carb and got fat...don't you
think that eating too much meat... don't give you others kind of problems?
My question is not ironic.
you wrote: "I believe living for many years on junk food and highly
processed foods screws up the way the body deals with carbs." so I ask you
is it not sufficient avoiding these food to solve the problem?
Thank you for your explanation. now it's a little bit clearer.

Blueberry

I think meat is different. It is harder to eat too much meat, because it
is so filling. At least in my experience and many others. I do not
actually eat more meat now. Carbs make me more hungry, meat does not.
Here is an example difference:

Before doing low-carb, maybe dinner was a steak, salad, broccoli, and
rice. I would eat it all, then I would still be hungry and have more
rice. Maybe an hour later I would be hungry again, and have more rice
as a late night snack.

Now, with low-carb, I do not eat the rice. Ok, so that is less food
right there. BUT, I also cannot finish my whole steak! I save half for
a stir-fry the next day. And I don't need any late night snacks either.

I think the human body is better able to handle meat than lots of
refined carbs. We were eating meat long before we learned how to
harvest and process grains. We knew how to hunt before we knew how to
make bread. We always ate plants and fruit too, but plants that you just
gather growing wild are not as sweet and big as plants that you farm and
breed.

--
http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick

"Blueberry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

here big obeses are *yet* rare! we don't feel so much this problem. I

think

Quoted message said:

it's normal read the reality on base of your own experiences! like you do!
so when someone tell me that he is hungry and keep to eat and he/she tell

me

Quoted message said:

that carb make them more hungry... I don't understand.

Many of the people on this newsgroup have been unable to lose weight and
keep it off by cutting fat and calories, in fact only about 5% of dieters
manage to lose the weight they wanted to AND keep it off for any length of
time. I had given up on dieting because I just couldn't keep it up long
enough to do any good. The diet recommended as a healthy way to lose
weight in this country just made me hungry all the time. It turns out that
starches like pasta, potatoes, cereals, and bread cause more insulin to be
released by the pancreas so the starches make your blood sugar go up and the
insulin knocks it back down. This fluctuation can cause hunger. If I eat
eggs or yogurt for breakfast I don't get hungry again very fast, if I eat
cereal for breakfast I get much hungrier much more quickly and the effect
lasts most of the day. I noticed this effect years before getting diabetes
but only looking back, I didn't realize what the problem was at the time.
I believe many people who do well on a low carb diet are probably at risk
for getting diabetes some time later in life if they go off the diet.
Maybe Italy doesn't have many fat people yet because they haven't eaten
enough white flour and sugar (plus trans fat and HFCS) to mess up their
endocrine system, yet.
You keep doing what you're doing if it is working for you, and stay out of
McDonald's. I'll keep doing what I'm doing as long as it works for me and
low carb is the first thing that has ever worked for me.

--
No Husband Has Ever Been Shot While Doing The Dishes

Blueberry said:

"Martha Gallagher" <[email hidden]> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Fri, 22 Jul 2005, rich wrote:

Quoted message said:

In any case, I think she's got her priorities backwards -

oh about this...don't you think I (or better ... we Italians) have our good
reasons?
think about it! ;-)

Well, I've always been heavy and I gained a ton more weight eating a low
fat, high carb diet (heavy on the pasta). I was always hungry, never
satisfied and <too much information alert> I had really bad gas all the
time. </tmia>

When I gave that up, I lost 60 pounds (sorry, don't know how much that is
in kilos) and, more importantly, kept the weight off for 3years and
counting while being satisfied with my meals.

For me, a typical day's menu is:

Breakfast: Cup of yogurt w/ a scoop of protein powder and, in the summer,
some fresh fruit.

Lunch: Varies widely but a chicken leg w/ a generous serving of sauteed
onions and zucchini (or mushrooms - there's a vendor at the farmers'
markets who has an amazing selection) is typical.

Dinner: Mostly a *big* salad. Almost always a balsamic vinaigrette. For
protein, sometimes I chop an egg and a few oz of cheese into it (I like
feta and mozzerrella, but sometimes I'll add some cubes of a nice hard
cheese). Other times I'll have a serving of ham steak or some beef.

I try to limit my snacks, but when I have them, it might be some nuts, the
mascarpone and berries, or, on days when I want to limit my calories, a
handful of baby carrots.

I'm rarely hungry except when I should be, I love the foods I eat, I don't
have the gas anymore, for the first time in my life I'm able to maintain
my weight w/o struggling and, despite all the hype about fat being bad for
you, my blood tests are excellent (yes, even though I cook w/ lard). Oh,
and the fitness trainer I work with frequently comments on how cardio fit
I already was when I started, and how quickly I'm now gaining strength.

You may have your good reasons, but clearly this is working for me.

Martha

--
Sig pending

"Blueberry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I swear I don't want change your mind, because I don't live there...so I
don't know the problem (how you have seen!... in fact someone think I'm a
troll :-) why not you? :-/), but if you ate too carb and got fat...don't

you

Quoted message said:

think that eating too much meat... don't give you others kind of problems?
My question is not ironic.

This idea is wrong. Why do people think low carb means you only eat meat?
For me personally, I am not eating more meat than I was before. I think I
am eating a little less meat. I am eating more fruits and nuts and very
many more vegetables. I just eat less starches and sweets. Since the
carbs aren't there to make me more hungry I am able to eat fewer calories.
I lost 59 pounds in a year and it was easy this time. I put everything I
eat in Fitday and try to make sure I get enough vitamins and fiber, etc.
My test results I got from my doctor shows improvement in everything.
Here is an example of a meal, I used to eat a steak with a small salad and a
baked potato. Now I eat a big salad, another vegetable like broccoli,
asparagus, squash, etc. and only part of the steak. How is that not more
healthy? Our low carb diets may be closer to your way of eating than you
realize, because you misunderstand what low carb means.

--
No Husband Has Ever Been Shot While Doing The Dishes

Blueberry---Very interesting. There's a new book out called, "French
Women Don't Get Fat". It talks about exactly what you've been
saying---that French women do NOT diet---they eat and ENJOY small
portions of everything they like, being careful to not have pasta AND
bread, or dessert AND potatoes. It also says that if today she eats rich
food, tomorrow will be a very light food day, to create balance.

This is clearly the most intelligent way to eat. For some reason....we
Americans just don't do it. We tend to eat TOO much EVERY day, eating
bread AND pasta AND dessert AND potatoes AND meat.....
often, at the same meal.

Of course you are right---pasta alone is not the single evil monster
that makes us fat. IF we could/would eat a small portion,we wouldn't
have gotten fat in the first place!

But, for whatever reason, many of us are addicted to carbs----and, like
an addiction to alcohol or cocaine, there is no such thing as a "small
portion" for us.

Certainly there is no more delightful food than Italian or French. Also,
those cultures have a deep love and appreciation for food, with meals
being eaten slowly and fully savored. For them, food is more than fuel,
a celebration of life, family and friends, to be shared and lingered
over.

Americans tend to eat quickly and often almost silently---shovelling
food quickly into our mouths as if any moment, someone will take it
away. WHY?

I, myself, am of Irish decent. There is no such thing as Irish Cuisine,
LOL--the Irish are not known for their food and the Irish meal is not a
two hour long social event of tasty delights and shared company. I
expect my ancestors came in from the fields long enough to eat a bowl of
mostly potato stew, then hurried back to the fields. I don't know. Im
just thinking that some cultures, such as the Italian and French, seem
to have the right idea about food....that many other cultures missed.

When I lived in New York, once, I got caught in a rain and ducked into
a Hungarian cafeteria. I didn't recognise much of the food offered, but
pointed to a sausage, pointed to some potatoes and sat down to eat.
Frankly, it was awful. The sausage was blood sausage and the potatoes
were cooked with a lot of vinegar and what seemed to be a sour-ish milk.
(Im not saying there isn't some terrific Hungarian food---there is. Just
not on my plate, that day). Anyway, after my meal, I waited for the
rain to stop, looking around at the Hungarian people eating their meals.
I noticed they ate slightly bent over their plates, not talking. I also
noticed a lack of any evident enjoyment. They ate as if the whole point
was simply to fuel up. It was anything but a celebration of
life---nothing like the meals had enjoyed with my Italian friends,
hours spent at the table enjoying antipasto, pasta, fish.....fabulous.
Im not saying Hungarians never have great, happy celebratory meals,
either--- Im sure they do. but not that day, and not in that place.

The point is, I guess, that food and the preparing and eating of it is a
cultural thing and we do it the way our parents did it..and their
parents, and theirs.

These days, Im making a conscious choice to SLOW down when I eat, truly
taste and savor and smell each bite and appreciate it. I don't eat in
front of the TV any more. I set an attractive place at the table, use my
best dishes, tablecloth and napkin (no more paper towel) and am trying
to learn the art of Dining--as it is practised in Italy and France.
Those guys KNOW how to eat.

LassChance

"Luna" <[email hidden]> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
"Blueberry" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

From what I have read about European cultures, it seems that in America
food is not as important to us. I've mainly read about France's way of
eating, but I think at least in some parts of Italy it is similar. I
dated an Italian, and he confirmed this.

Generally if we can, we prefer eat in family with peace and quiet :-)

Quoted message said:

(this is all generalizations, not true for everyone of course)

well some one can't eat at home but if we can....we do it!

Quoted message said:

In Europe, a meal is an event. You take time to prepare and cook, you
savor the food and eat slowly, enjoying conversation with family and
friends.

for the most of time!

Quoted message said:

In America, the lifestyle is rush rush rush. We eat in our cars, we eat
at the desk at work, we eat while watching television instead of talking
with family, we grab whatever is convenient and fast and eat it quickly
so we can get back to work. Even mothers who stay at home have time
pressure, must get the kids to soccer practice, piano lessons, etc, no
time to cook, let's grab McDonald's on the way.

we are generally busy...but we try to find the time for cooking. here the
shops close at 12.00 (12.30) and reopen at 14.30 (15.00 sometime 15.30) then
they
close again at 19.00 (19.30) and on Sunday all of shops are close... so we
can stay with the family. I mean existe a law that forbid the opening of the
shops on Sunday!

Quoted message said:

We feel like we always have to be doing something, so taking the time to
make healthy food and eat it slowly seems like wasting time, being lazy,
we feel guilty about all the productive things we could be doing instead.

This is very sad!! is it a waste time dedicate time to yourself? to eat??
O__O cook healthy food for your family? for us cooking is not definitly a
waste of time! if we can cook during the week ...we prepare the food in the
fridge or freezer in the weekend or at the night for the day after!

Quoted message said:

MSG is in some convenience foods, yes. And many Chinese restaurants.
Not real Chinese food like they eat in China, but American Chinese food
which is deep fried or covered in sauce, and often served buffet style
where you can eat as much as you want. There is a common joke that
after you eat Chinese food, you are hungry an hour later.

here it's hard to find a *take out* or *take away* and rarely people go to
eat to the reastaurant. we are lover for home made :-) but some bad habits
are coming here too. :-(

Quoted message said:

I personally believe just sugar itself can have the same effect, if it
is too much sugar. Have you heard of a "sugar rush" or "sugar high?"
Eat too many sweets, you get a high like from drugs, a burst of energy,
maybe your face feels hot and your heart beats fast, then you crash and
feel sleepy and irritable.

Never heard :-///

Quoted message said:

I think meat is different. It is harder to eat too much meat, because it
is so filling. At least in my experience and many others. I do not
actually eat more meat now. Carbs make me more hungry, meat does not.

in a day how much meat you can eat? because if you eat too much meat you
eat too much protein ... if you say that you eat less carb (I think we eat
not more of you) ok...but it's eating too much fat and protein that I don't
think is right.

Quoted message said:

Here is an example difference:

Before doing low-carb, maybe dinner was a steak, salad, broccoli, and
rice. I would eat it all, then I would still be hungry and have more
rice. Maybe an hour later I would be hungry again, and have more rice
as a late night snack.

I can eat only a dish of pasta and I don't eat without problem until to
dinner! then I eat a slice of cheese (50 gr ricotta for example) a couple of
tomatoes and a little of bread and I don't suffer at all! :-/

Quoted message said:

Now, with low-carb, I do not eat the rice. Ok, so that is less food
right there. BUT, I also cannot finish my whole steak! I save half for
a stir-fry the next day. And I don't need any late night snacks either.

I think the human body is better able to handle meat than lots of
refined carbs. We were eating meat long before we learned how to
harvest and process grains. We knew how to hunt before we knew how to
make bread. We always ate plants and fruit too, but plants that you just
gather growing wild are not as sweet and big as plants that you farm and
breed.

I can understand your problem ...but still I'm not sure at all that this is
the right way to solve it. if you know that the problem is the life style
why don't you change it?
Of course you have to work...but after that...you could have time! or not?
:-/
Anyway talk with you it's instructive :-)
Blueberry

"Tom G" <[email hidden]> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:zWvDe.3965$5V4.3499@pd7tw3no...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I mean Chinese are eating rice from how many centuries? And they don't

have

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

all these problem of obesity! so If chinese eat rice from centuries...
Italian people eat pasta, in North Europa eat potatoes... why all these
population doesn't have all these problems? :-/

In the past they didn't have problems. Modern ways are catching up to
them too.

we don't have problem when we follow our diet (in my case mediterranean
diet)
generally people have problem when go to eat to McDonald or eat too
much fat.

Quoted message said:

Too much refined foods and not enough activity. My cholesterol is down

by

Quoted message said:

the way, and so it is the same with most of the other people here that eat
low carb.

If I follow my diet I have no one problem with my cholesterol. to tell the
truth I've never had problem with cholesterol :-))

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In my country (like every country in Italy) we have tipical recipes

....even

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

very fatty...because people needed a lot of energy during the Winter in

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

past (I live in a mountain country with cold Winter!) but now of course

we

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

eat this dishes rarely!!!

And this is the big difference in eating low carb. It is not a low fat
diet. It is not healthier to replace natural fats with unnatural high carb
fillers.

for us carb are not unnatural at all! then no one taught us like modify our
food...it's became natural!!

Quoted message said:

We were taught in our schools when I was young that fat was bad too, but
that is not correct. As our diets changed over the years to more and more
carbs and less fats, we also got more obese. Coincidence or not?

For us (Italians) american diet is not considered with less fat, at the
contrary! generally Italians that come there are always scared from get fat!
too much sugar...too much fried for us, too much meat. :-)

Quoted message said:

10,000 years wouldn't be enough time to grow a tail perhaps, but natural
selection could easily separate those that could tolerate higher carbs.
People that couldn't tolerate it would die off sooner from diabetes or
celiac. In those times, it would have been difficult to figure out why
someone was always sick and then died sooner without being able to
procreate, since these diseases take years to develop.

If the problem was the carb...we should be fatter then americans ...but is
not so. So at this point the carb could be a secondary problem ...if you
can't stop too eat for some other reason of course the sugar became fat! but
if you eat pasta at noon (a little amount) for dinner you have already
comsumed... Instead if you eat it for dinner you have more probability to
find that dish like fat.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I don't think so!!! really! in fact.... we are omnivorus! that means we
need vegetables fruit and meat!!

Yes I believe we are omnivorous. But our diets have swung to far to the
high carb foods by genetic manipulation through selective breeding, or
refinement of foods that strip most nutrients and fiber and leave only the
energy calories ( like sugar and flour ) . Large sweet fruits are rare in
nature though, and not as sweet. Large tuberous vegetables are also rare.
They tend to be smaller, and more fibrous in nature.

Fortunatelly...here OMG is ILLEGAL! :-) YET!!! we hope stay illegal!!! we
try to eat seasonal vegetables and fruit...and so on. and most of people
(except children) don't love industrial food...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

do you say that grains are hard to digest?

Yes in their raw form. What we have done is made it too easy to extract
the calories through refinement. Our bodies are not suited to handle the
quick release of these calories. Fiber helps to slow down their release.
Grain hulls are even harder, or near impossible to digest. Ever chewed on
grains? There quite tough. Without crushing and cooking, it is hard to get
the calories and nutrients out of them.

Here it's another important thing... if you cook too much the pasta become
hardly dirgestible, for this we eat it *al dente*
instead you eat it too much cooked.

Quoted message said:

Yes, which is why we are so successful as omnivores. Maybe a little too
successful, which is why we are also getting fat.

Simply because we have a high availability of food! for this we have pay
atention!

Even with a book of edible

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

forest plants, I find difficulty locating high carbohydrate foods.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

All the seeds! carbs are the resorse of energy for seeds...it's a little
riserver, only the necessary for allow the seed to became a little plant.
for example you could open a pinecone and you'd have your ration of carb!

;-)

Quoted message said:

the seeds are definitly more frequent then animals! don't you think?

It's all about seasonal availability and competition with other animals
for food. Nuts are great for low carb diets. We no longer have natural
limiting factors. We can eat as much as we want, whenever we want.

We can choose to have seasona limiting! eat the things in the right season!

Quoted message said:

So do you think that is more healty the meat then carb for us? in a
hamburger do you find more healthy the cheese and meat than bread? O__O

Yes of course. I know you have a problem believing that.

Yes, you are definiltly right. I can't believe that your kind of diet is
right. for what is my experience and for what I've studied. I'd never follow
this kind of diet...I belive it's a suicide! I'm really convince.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've never said that this kind of diet doesn't work... I only think is

not

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

healty. not equilibrate!

High carb diets are not a balanced diet. You need protein and fat.

ok !! wait a moment!!! you think mediterranea diet is without fat or
protein? O__O

You can

Quoted message said:

live without carbs.

I don't agree about this...you need it like the other substances! but like
all of the think it' bad exagerate...like with fat (in my opinion)

Unfortunately, our governments think it is the best way,

Quoted message said:

and really push high carb as healthy. They think high carb reduces
cholesterol.

O__O are you kidding? you government says that high carb reduces cholesterol
O__O
we know that fat of fish reduce the bad cholesterol!! in fact it's a good
thing eat a lot of fish!!

The trouble is, many people do not eat enough natural foods.

Quoted message said:

Most get there carb calories from refined carb foods. There cholesterol is
going up. I know it is difficult to grasp this concept.

you see, here many people, the most of part, eat natural food!

Quoted message said:

Good for you on losing weight. Any type of diet will work if calories

are

Quoted message said:

reduced. It is more difficult to control hunger while eating high carb,

and

Quoted message said:

the weight is likely to come back.

For me it's exacltly the contrary I could live only with carb but I can stay
without...otherwise I can control hunger.

Many people here have not eliminated

Quoted message said:

carbs all together. They have just tried to eat enough that it doesn't

spike

Quoted message said:

up blood sugar. Also, there seems to be a maximum amount of carbs that

they

Quoted message said:

can eat without gaining weight.

To eliminate the sugar in the blood for me stay wrong...because our body
need sugar for immediate energy.
Blueberry

In article <[email hidden]>,

Blueberry said:

I can understand your problem ...but still I'm not sure at all that this is
the right way to solve it. if you know that the problem is the life style
why don't you change it?
Of course you have to work...but after that...you could have time! or not?
:-/
Anyway talk with you it's instructive :-)
Blueberry

First off, from your comments, I don't think you understand low-carb
much. You talk about "too much" meat and fat, when I say low-carb helps
control hunger so you don't eat "too much" of anything. I eat smaller
portions of _everything_ now, including meat. Maybe by percentage my
diet is more meat now, but not by actual amount.

Tell me I can eat as many fried potatoes as I want, and I will eat and
eat and eat, never get full. Tell me I can eat as much meat as I want,
and I am full after only one serving.

And, I definitely have changed my lifestyle. I was not the typical
American to start with, I do not work all the time and I have no kids.
I just did not like to cook so I would eat convenience foods like Kraft
Macaroni and Cheese a lot. I don't know if you have that in Italy, and
I hope you don't. It comes in a box. The "cheese" is a powder that you
mix in with milk and butter. I believe it is 3 or 4 servings per box,
but I would eat the whole box at once, often with chopped up hot dogs
added in. I don't know if you have hot dogs, but they are like a
sausage made from all the parts sausage makers would probably throw
away, with all sorts of chemicals added. I would also eat chips, pizza,
fast food and candy a lot.

For me, I did not replace starches and sugars with more meat. I eat
green and red vegetables instead. Do you really think a salad with
spinach, tomatoes, and grilled chicken is less healthy than pasta with
chicken? The salad has fat from the dressing, the pasta has fat from
the oil. They both have protein. I do not need the pasta to be
healthy, it will just make me want more.

--
http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick

"Lass Chance_2" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Heyy!! She's back! Hi, Lass : )

Nicky.

--
A1c 10.5/5.6/<6 T2 DX 05/2004
1g Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine
95/76/72Kg

Quoting Blueberry:

Quoted message said:

To eliminate the sugar in the blood for me stay wrong...because our body
need sugar for immediate energy.

Protein is potentially ~58% anti-ketogenic (converted to glucose).
Google "gluconeogenesis". Even fat is potentially 10% anti-ketogenic.
While carbohydrates certainly can be a source of immediate fuel
(glucose), many people just don't truly need all that much of them due
to low activity levels, and what is generated via gluconeogenesis will
help in covering their needs for glucose.

In addition, the body is certainly capable of making adaptations to a
controlled carb lifestyle over time (google "free fatty acid
metabolism"😉, which will allow most folks to exercise at a light to
moderate level without the need for consuming more carbs. However,
some people may prefer to occasionally take in extra carbs for various
reasons. Google "targeted ketogenic diet" or "cyclical ketogenic
diet".

Also, higher activity levels, especially when combined with a low
bodyfat, might occasionally necessitate the need for carbs for
'immediate energy', as you put it.

Another long post. Sorry.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In the past they didn't have problems. Modern ways are catching up to
them too.

we don't have problem when we follow our diet (in my case Mediterranean
diet)

That's good, but I doubt that you will see a lot of traditional cooking
30 years from now. Since it is in most people's nature to do things the easy
way, I doubt that convenience foods are going to disappear anytime soon.
Likely, you will also find this to be true as time goes on.
Some people I know claim to make home cooked meals, but most are
pre-packaged food with little work involved. Heat and serve. They usually
claim not to have enough time to cook proper meals.
Also, I've read that more of the Chinese rice being eaten is of the white
rice. More convenient of coarse. Their main food stable is becoming more
refined. It won't be too much longer before they are having higher obesity
rates.

Quoted message said:

generally people have problem when go to eat to McDonald or eat too
much fat.

I tend to think that most fast food and convenience home meals are both
high carb and high fat. Probably the worst combination. And of course the
transfat used for frying the french fries and the pre-packaged stuff is not
good for you. Here in Canada, the government is in the process of trying to
ban transfats from food production.

Quoted message said:

If I follow my diet I have no one problem with my cholesterol. to tell the
truth I've never had problem with cholesterol :-))

I did have a problem before I started low carb. My doctor told me to
watch my fat intake. I doubt whether I could have lowered the amount of fat
any further. The trouble with trying to eat foods that are low fat, is that
it will undoubtedly be replaced with more carbs. Amazingly, when I cut out
the high carb foods, my cholesterol dropped.
It seems that high cholesterol is related to the other metabolic diseases
that go along with gaining weight and a sedentary lifestyle.

Quoted message said:

for us carb are not unnatural at all! then no one taught us like modify

our

Quoted message said:

food...it's became natural!!

Most people in Europe and North America do not eat low carb and do not
agree with the way we eat. We are told constantly by family, friends,
co-workers, and the media that we should eat high carb "natural diets". Most
of the people that tell me this, are also fatter than me. If they know so
much about dieting, than why are they so heavy? So, I'm not shocked by your
feelings toward it. Nothing sounds natural if it is a totally different way
of doing something.

Quoted message said:

For us (Italians) american diet is not considered with less fat, at the
contrary! generally Italians that come there are always scared from get

fat!

Quoted message said:

too much sugar...too much fried for us, too much meat. :-)

Tell them not to be scared to come here. Just eat less like they do in
Italy. It's easy. Right?

Quoted message said:

If the problem was the carb...we should be fatter then americans ...but is
not so. So at this point the carb could be a secondary problem ...if you
can't stop too eat for some other reason of course the sugar became fat!

Large amounts of sugar is definitely a big problem here in regards to
obesity. But, sugar is on top of our already high carb diet.

Quoted message said:

but
if you eat pasta at noon (a little amount) for dinner you have already
comsumed... Instead if you eat it for dinner you have more probability to
find that dish like fat.

Sorry, I don't really understand what you are trying to say here.

Quoted message said:

we try to eat seasonal vegetables and fruit...and so on. and most of people
(except children) don't love industrial food...

And there lies your potential future problem. The children are learning
how to eat the wrong foods. That is why I'm predicting that in 30 years, you
will have the same problems as we do here. Surely it is happening in your
larger cities?

Quoted message said:

Here it's another important thing... if you cook too much the pasta

become

Quoted message said:

hardly dirgestible, for this we eat it *al dente*
instead you eat it too much cooked.

I find that to be true. We call it "glycemic index" here. It is not a
reliable measure because it is difficult to get the same results in each
experiment. But generally it is found that more cooking increases the
glycemic index of foods. Even many of our vegetables like broccoli and
cauliflower are often cooked until they are mush.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yes, which is why we are so successful as omnivores. Maybe a little

too

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

successful, which is why we are also getting fat.

Simply because we have a high availability of food! for this we have pay
atention!

Too much high starch foods as a percentage of our diets are just as much
of a problem as the high availability.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It's all about seasonal availability and competition with other

animals

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

for food. Nuts are great for low carb diets. We no longer have natural
limiting factors. We can eat as much as we want, whenever we want.

We can choose to have seasona limiting! eat the things in the right

season!

So then you are saying that pasta should only be eaten in the fall season
after the wheat harvest? Of course not. We no longer have seasons with
regard to availability of food.
Is it really that difficult for you to understand that there is too much
white flour, white rice, white corn starch, and white sugar in our average
diet? It's all white because all the nutrients and fiber has been stripped
from it. It's all just energy calories left. It's too concentrated for our
bodies to deal with. It's only one step away from injecting the energy
straight into our veins.
You know that cooking too much will cause the calories to be absorbed too
quickly. Do you not understand the refinement and concentration of the carbs
are just as bad? Based on the glycemic index, there is little difference
between sugar, flour and other starches. They are all broken down into
glucose by the time it is digested. The more refined and concentrated they
are, the faster this happens. This is not a natural consumption of carbs
from nature.

Quoted message said:

Yes, you are definiltly right. I can't believe that your kind of diet is
right. for what is my experience and for what I've studied. I'd never

follow

Quoted message said:

this kind of diet...I belive it's a suicide! I'm really convince.

The thing is that most people that start eating low carb find that they
do not eat more meat and fat. Their calories drop by 1/3 to 1/2 by
eliminating refined carbs and genetically manipulated, high starch
concentrated plants. These are replaced by consuming nutrient dense, lower
calorie salad vegetables. I encourage you to find how nutritious pasta or
any other high carb food compares to the nutritional values of salad
vegetables.
You would not say anything if I had chicken, fish, beef, pork or lamb with
a salad for dinner. In fact you would probably comment on how healthy it
looks because of the amount of veggies there are also on the plate. Can you
not see that the extras portions of potato, rice, pasta, corn are only high
calorie items that are not necessary to add if I am over weight and wanting
to reduce my calorie amount without affecting my nutrient and vitamin
content?
Are there a lot of vitamins and nutrients in the pasta, rice, corn starch
or sugar that I have eliminated from my plate? Is it fiber that I am
missing? How much fiber is left in refined rice, flour, sugar, and corn
starch. Isn't there more fiber in fresh salad vegetables without adding
extra calories?
Aren't I in fact removing only energy calories from my diet, which is my
goal in trying to lose weight in the first place?

Quoted message said:

ok !! wait a moment!!! you think mediterranea diet is without fat or
protein? O__O

The Mediterranean diet has some popularity in the media as one of the
most heart healthy way to eat. 'Trouble is, it is difficult to pin point
exactly what it is. There are many countries, climates, and socio-economic
regions. What you claim is Mediterranean would be different then the south
of France. Of course there is an adequate amount of fats and proteins. I
never said there wasn't.
My wife often makes a "greek type" salad with feta cheese, olives,
vinegar, green peppers, onions, tomatoes, and romaine lettuce along with
chicken, fish, or lamb. We don't have fresh lamb in our grocery store, so
it's usually from the freezer. It's one of my favorites. Probably not real
Mediterranean, but that is what is thought of around here as so. Also we
have tried various versions of souvlaki, which seem to follow a low carb
style in some aspects and includes many spices and veggies that I like.

Quoted message said:

You can

Quoted message said:

live without carbs.

I don't agree about this...you need it like the other substances! but like
all of the think it' bad exagerate...like with fat (in my opinion)

Yes, and that is the reason for why you are here. To learn about why we
think it's the high/refined carbs that are the main problem, or whether it's
the high fat. Well, it has been mentioned in this group and other articles
that high fat and high carb together is the worst combination that a person
could eat. It is this combination that is the base for many junk foods and
deserts. Chips, french fries, cookies, cake, candy bars, ice cream, donuts,
are all high carb as well as high fat. These foods should clearly be avoided
on any diet.

Quoted message said:

Unfortunately, our governments think it is the best way,

Quoted message said:

and really push high carb as healthy. They think high carb reduces
cholesterol.

O__O are you kidding? you government says that high carb reduces

cholesterol

Quoted message said:

O__O

Doctors will usually say, "Follow the food pyriamid to reduce your
cholesterol". Most food pyramids show 50 to 60% of calories should come from
carbs. This is very hard to do unless a large part of the diet contains
refined carbs.

Quoted message said:

we know that fat of fish reduce the bad cholesterol!! in fact it's a good
thing eat a lot of fish!!

You bet. Fish is a great source of healthy fats that we do not eat enough
of.

Quoted message said:

you see, here many people, the most of part, eat natural food!

Most people here that are over weight did not gain it by eating healthy,
natural foods.

Quoted message said:

For me it's exacltly the contrary I could live only with carb but I can

stay

Quoted message said:

without...otherwise I can control hunger.

If a person has a lot of weight to lose, reducing fat also means reducing
a lot of protein. This is not a good situation if that same person wants to
retain their muscle mass. Most natural protein sources are 1/3 protein and
2/3 fat calories. If I need 90 grams of protein(360 cal) for my 180 lb frame
for body repair at a minimum, then it will also come with 180 grams of
fat(720 cal). That's 1080 cal right there. I would have to be careful now
how much carbs I include if I'm trying to lose weight. It had better be from
healthy veggies, or I would just be adding empty calories. If I try to
reduce the fat calories, I would likely be reducing the protein as well, and
would end up losing fat as well as muscle weight.

Quoted message said:

Many people here have not eliminated

Quoted message said:

carbs all together. They have just tried to eat enough that it doesn't

spike

Quoted message said:

up blood sugar. Also, there seems to be a maximum amount of carbs that

they

Quoted message said:

can eat without gaining weight.

To eliminate the sugar in the blood for me stay wrong...because our body
need sugar for immediate energy.

If you believe that carbs are the most important energy source, then what
process uses up the body fat stores? It is not converted to glucose. It is
ketones. If the body was not suppose to run on ketones, then how do you
propose that we get rid of the accumulated fat stores? Our bodies can only
store a limited amount of glucose. Most of us are not using a lot of energy
during the day. What would be the purpose of the high octane fuel?
Why can marathon runners complete 23 mile circuits after their glucose
stores have been used up well before the half way mark? What keeps them
going?
There was a man who ate 25 eggs per day for 15 years. His health was
good, and his cholesterol was excellent. If carbs are necessary, how did he
survive into his 80's?
The immediate energy stores you speak of has it's uses for athletes, or
hard laborers. Most of us can get by with the lower octane fuel of ketones
with little problems. In fact, I believe the primary fuel is ketones(fat).
The secondary fuel is glucose.

Quoted message said:

Blueberry

Quoted message said:

retain their muscle mass. Most natural protein sources are 1/3 protein and
2/3 fat calories. If I need 90 grams of protein(360 cal) for my 180 lb

frame

Quoted message said:

for body repair at a minimum, then it will also come with 180 grams of
fat(720 cal). That's 1080 cal right there.

Oops. 720 cal. from fat is only 80 grams.