pasta

JC Der Koenig said:

"Suze" <suze_anderson@spamcop/dot/obvious> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoting JC Der Koenig:

Quoted message said:

You're most definitely a suck up.

;-)

I prefer the term 'minion', thankyouverymuch.

"that's what they do" 🙂

Acolyte also works.

Right. When mine get low, I just drink a little Gatorade.

No, seriously...

Pastorio

"diane" <[email hidden]> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

as a fellow Italian in this group- 1 serving of pasta here in America is
more like a main dish-way too much pasta. I cut out all pasta and breads,
sugars the first 2 years to take off weight. It is only now that I'm

adding

Quoted message said:

back whole wheat pasta, and making sure that it is only 1 portion a meal.

For me a dish of pasta is about 0,10 oz (80 g). what is for you a normal
amount of pasta? then which kind of sauces do you use? I'm asking only for
having a idea.

Quoted message said:

Way less than what I used to eat. I am not a diabetic, but it runs in my
family, so I changed my diet and lost 50 pounds.
The good news is that you can modify many Italian dishes to make them low
carb and have a very nice meal. Why do this? for one, you will not be as
hungry, and find that you spend less time in the kitchen. If you are

eating

Quoted message said:

lots of vegetables and meats- then all you need to do is eat less of the
high carbohydrate foods. If pasta is so important to you, cut the portion

in

Quoted message said:

half.

Here in Italy we eat less meat then in America, I think. For us is not
normal eating meat every day, we eat it about 2 or 3 time a week.

Instead our diet want a bigger amount of cereals. And honestly I don't think
so eating too much meat is heavy.

I'll tell you the truth ... until two month ago, I had problem with my
weight. Because of stress I was eating bad things in bad way... so I've
simply decided to be more ordered in the way of eating and I've lost 22
pounds, without eliminate pasta or bread or potatoes. I only *think* to what
I'm eating! I mean in my diet have to be: cereals, (so pasta and bread),
dairy I drink milk every day, and I eat cheese... but I eat it if I don't
eat meat or eggs or fish (a lot of fish!) then peas and beans (but not with
the pasta or bread)...vegetables and fruit. and in 2 month I've lost 22
pound (pounds that I've earned eating in disordered way and because of
medicines). What is important are the combinations! Now I'm practically at
my right weight, but if I'll lose a few kilos again ...I'll be happy. :-)

But I think what is important it's have a good alimentary education, then
the things work out. then you have simply to keep to have a good alimentary
education! and being costant.
For example if I want a ice cream...I eat it...without any problem...in fact
in this season some Italians use (sometime) have lunch with a ice cream.

Quoted message said:

Welcome to the group, your English is much better than my Italian.

Do you talk Italian? :-)

Blueberry

"Marengo" <[email hidden]> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:NGiCe.45125$rb6.17044@lakeread07...

Quoted message said:

Blueberry wrote:
|| why so obsessed about carb? :-/ I eat pasta every day at least ONCE
|| a day ...and I have not any propblem!
in fact I'm Italian girl.

|| Blueberry

Then you happen to be blessed with the right genes, cara.

I've seen a lot of fat Italian women!

Where?
Blueberry

"Saffire" <[email hidden]> ha scritto nel
messaggio news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
says...

Quoted message said:

Blueberry, welcome to the group. Ignore Suze. JC der Koenig will also
insult you. Then Suze will suck up to him for it. That's what they do.

Thankyou for the welcome... About Suse... she's right! :-)

Quoted message said:

--
Saffire
205/136/125

Can you explane me what are this number?

Blueberry

Blueberry said:

"Saffire" <[email hidden]>

ha scritto

Quoted message said:

nel messaggio

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

says...

Quoted message said:

Blueberry, welcome to the group. Ignore Suze. JC der

Koenig will

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

also insult you. Then Suze will suck up to him for it.

That's what

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

they do.

Thankyou for the welcome... About Suse... she's right! :-)

Quoted message said:

--
Saffire
205/136/125

Can you explane me what are this number?

Starting weight/current weight/goal weight (in pounds).

"Bob (this one)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

JC Der Koenig said:

"Suze" <suze_anderson@spamcop/dot/obvious> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoting JC Der Koenig:

>You're most definitely a suck up.
>
>;-)

I prefer the term 'minion', thankyouverymuch.

"that's what they do" 🙂

Acolyte also works.

Right. When mine get low, I just drink a little Gatorade.

You're trying too hard.

"JOLINDA RANEY" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tom,

You are absolutely right. I am 38. When I was in school, we walked---even

if

Quoted message said:

it was 2miles, didn't matter. We played outside all day till dinner time.

Me too.

Quoted message said:

When I was around age 10, along came the video games( the ones that ping
ponged all over)---very generic games compared to nowadays). We walked to
the malls with our friends..etc. Today, kids have cars entering 10th

grade,

Quoted message said:

sit around text messaging or talking on their cells, very little

exercising,

Quoted message said:

and are just plain lazy. Like I was telling JC in a thread a while
back---when I picked up my daughter from high school, I could NOT believe
how many over weight/ obese kids their were. When I was in high school,
there were *maybe* 5-10 in the whole school. And, many of those were not

as

Quoted message said:

big as some of the kids I seen picking up my daughter.

It seems to be getting worse.

Quoted message said:

We also didn't get the sweet cereal. My mom and dad would ask us what we
wanted for a treat when they went out for a night---we always chose

Captain

Quoted message said:

Crunch. LOL. We would be soo excited to get it because it wasn't something
in our house daily. My mom would have plenty of fruit and veggies for us

to

Quoted message said:

eat after school.

A lot of the junk foods tend to be part of our diets rather than
occasional treats.

Quoted message said:

Also, how many of us here drank the amt of soda kids drink nowadays? We

got

Quoted message said:

soda about 3 times a year( usually in the summer when we went to the river
with friends). Look at the food being served in middle and high schools~~
ABSOLUTELY stupid. When I was in school, we had an apple machine in the
halls. It was huge and I would buy one after school to eat on the way

home.

Quoted message said:

Anyhow, you are right----all the way( but I am sure you *knew* that🙂

Hehe. Well, I usually like to think I'm right. :o)

This is more of a continuation for Blueberry, if she is still reading
this thread.

Our lifestyles have changed a great deal in the last few decades. Other
countries around the world are seemingly going down the same path. At first
there is some resistance, but gradually the old traditional ways of
preparing foods are too time consuming for our modern 2 income families, and
eventually people cede to the new convenient, easy to prepare, cheap foods.
The question that Blueberry asked was basically, "What's wrong with carbs?
We've been eating this way for centuries." True, but other factors have
changed along the way that have put us over the edge for 'calories in =
calories out'. Our high concentrated foods are no longer in balance with our
activities.
Many people that hear of the low carb diet believe that all carbs must be
cut out. Not true. Pasta is just one of many culprits of refined foods. Each
person can find their tolerance level for maintaining an ideal weight,
albeit at a probable lesser amount than what made them fat in the first
place. Some would have to restrict the amount of carbs more than others. The
restriction of the diet may have to be as severe as the over abundance was,
at first.
High carbohydrate foods helped build our society. We could concentrate our
efforts on other duties instead of eking out a subsistence style of living.
Many cultures have found high energy foods like rice, wheat, corn, and
potatoes to help advance their societies. Now the tables have turned, and
our foods are damaging us. It's a "whole" problem rather than a "single"
food or item.
Carbohydrates are not evil. Our bodies are quite capable of handling some
amounts. But we are no different than a rat that has found a hole in the
grain bin. Finding this treasure will cause him to be lazy, and eat far more
than he needs.
Our environment in the past only allowed the rich to get fat. The general
population was only able to scrape by. Now, almost every one lives like a
King (or the rat). Are Humans smarter than other animals? I'm not so sure.
Don't mind me, I just like to go off on a rant every once in a while. I
have chosen to eliminate whatever refined foods I can, and it works great
for me to control my weight.
Blueberry; I think your question is a good one. Pasta is just one of the
many refined foods that is causing our weight gain. It's not a single item
that is a problem, rather, it is many of them together.

See also:

"Life Extension, Caloric Restriction and Scientific Philanthropy"
http://www.scienceboard.net/community/perspectives.144.html

Suze said:

Not really. Calories still matter. It was/is rather unfortunate that
Atkins downplayed the importance of caloric restriction in his
writings.

"JOLINDA RANEY" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Also, how many of us here drank the amt of soda kids drink nowadays? We
got soda about 3 times a year( usually in the summer when we went to the
river with friends). Look at the food being served in middle and high
schools~~ ABSOLUTELY stupid. When I was in school, we had an apple machine
in the halls. It was huge and I would buy one after school to eat on the
way home.

Anyhow, you are right----all the way( but I am sure you *knew* that🙂

LOL

I'm 30 and in my high school (in PA) we had 2 soda machines a chip and candy
machine that was just out side of the lunch room in the lunch room we had
the every day school lunch line we had 2 choices with hot fresh cookies at
the end of the line(not included in lunch price). We had a deli (I had more
turkey in a pita in those 4 years then most people have of either in a life
time:o)) and a junk line they had soft pretzels with hot cheese sauce, chips
of all kinds, ice cream, and candy. I also went to a Tech school in High
School They had soda machines and I think 2 choices (I never had lunch
there due to the pita with turkey).

My DH said his lunch room(in WY) was just a typical lunch room with one
choice but they were allowed to leave school grounds for lunch so he had
lots of pizza.

Angie
back to lurking

"rich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:XteCe.1321$JJ.15@trnddc09...

Quoted message said:

Among Europeans, Italy is definitely on the high side of death rates from
diabetes, FWIW.

I guess Marco Polo did a bad thing, then.

--
No Husband Has Ever Been Shot While Doing The Dishes

"Blueberry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

For me a dish of pasta is about 0,10 oz (80 g). what is for you a normal
amount of pasta? then which kind of sauces do you use? I'm asking only for
having a idea.

We have restaurants that serve a never ending bowl of pasta, as long as you
keep eating they keep bringing you more. I eat my tomato or cheese based
sauces over spaghetti squash, now.

Quoted message said:

Here in Italy we eat less meat then in America, I think. For us is not
normal eating meat every day, we eat it about 2 or 3 time a week.

Instead our diet want a bigger amount of cereals. And honestly I don't

think

Quoted message said:

so eating too much meat is heavy.

After eating less pasta, bread, potatoes for a while I found that I was less
hungry so I eat less calories. Eating cereal at breakfast makes me more
hungry all day. Maybe some people can eat a lot of carbs and not get more
hungry, I can't.

--
No Husband Has Ever Been Shot While Doing The Dishes

"Blueberry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Marengo" <[email hidden]> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:NGiCe.45125$rb6.17044@lakeread07...

Quoted message said:

Then you happen to be blessed with the right genes, cara.

I've seen a lot of fat Italian women!

Where?

The ones that moved to America and started eating like the rest of us and
walking to the car instead of a couple of miles to the store. Every group
that comes here will have some members start to get fat, usually not the
first generation, but the second or third. There was an exchange student
here from Argentina, she got very fat, very fast, they had to send her back
because no one could afford to keep her.

--
No Husband Has Ever Been Shot While Doing The Dishes

"Tom G" <[email hidden]> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:NywCe.264599$El.86477@pd7tw1no...

Quoted message said:

This is more of a continuation for Blueberry, if she is still reading
this thread.

Yes, I'm still reading...but I'm a little busy...so I can't answer now! I'll
answer tomorrow! I find this thread very intersting!
Blueberry

Blueberry said:

But good rule is if you eat pasta you don't eat bread or potatoes...or
rice! so it works for other kind of food... if you
eat cheese you don't eat meat or eggs or something that contains proteins!
we eat 80g of pasta (for lunch for example) and nothing else, then for
dinner we eat the main course (but never pasta and main course !)

Those are small portions. Eat little; do not get fat.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It is a mistake to think that everyone else is just like you.

If some one have a intollerance for a kind of food, it's right avoid
it ...

Often people have intolerance without knowing it. I was 40
before I learned I am wheat intolerant. I had never gone
a week wheat-free in my life up until that point.

Quoted message said:

but I think is dangerous follow a so extreme diet only because you are
a little bit over weight. If it's a healthy problem... I don't speak any
more!

If you think low carbing is extreme, then you have never
read one of the books on the topic. So you write out of
ignorance. Ignorance is cureable - Go read one of the
books.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

To understand DIET, you need to look beyond yourself...... because there
are evidently large differences in how people respond to the same food,
drink, or drugs.

I think (but it's only my opinion) that the better thing is eating a little
of all of kind of food, to cover all of necessity.

If that approach worked for everyone, there would be no
fat people in the world. do you honestly think that
there is even one fat person anywhere in the world who
has not tried that approach? No one approach works for
everyone. The most obvious approaches work for some but
fail for many. And so you think and you have opinions,
but there are hard facts that state othterwise. Low
carb is an approach that works for many who have failed
using other approaches.

"Blueberry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Tom G" <[email hidden]> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:NywCe.264599$El.86477@pd7tw1no...

Quoted message said:

This is more of a continuation for Blueberry, if she is still reading
this thread.

Yes, I'm still reading...but I'm a little busy...so I can't answer now!

I'll

Quoted message said:

answer tomorrow! I find this thread very intersting!
Blueberry

Because you are new here, be aware that my views and opinions do not
represent the way all people in this group do low carb. There are many
different people here, and they eat low carb for various reasons. Some are
type II diabetic and use low carb to control blood sugar levels. Some have
tried many different types of diets and have found that low carb is the best
way to lose weight.
The basic premise of why low carb works, that most agree on, is that
blood sugar levels are more stable. When eating high carb, blood sugar tends
to go up higher and then come down lower. The resulting insulin spikes cause
metabolic problems and tends to deposit the extra energy as fat ( if the
sugar stores in the muscles and liver are full ).
I believe that the large up and down blood sugar swings are directly
related to uncontrollable weight gain, insulin resistance, and then finally
type II diabetes. From what I have read, the high insulin spikes are also
damaging to the arteries, and the body produces cholesterol to repair this
damage. Some people may be affected greater than others because of factors
like, genetics, levels of activity, amount that is over-eaten, and
medications.
It also seems that the same size portion of meat and a plate full of
salad veggies is just as satisfying for hunger without the extra portions of
potato, pasta, rice, or bread with it. Many people have found that eating
low carb doesn't leave them starving an hour or 2 later after a meal.
High carb foods are a more recent invention of our agricultural practices
(less than 10,000 years). Before we started farming, fruits and vegetables
were not as big and sweet or as abundant than what was found in nature. We
still ate these foods before we farmed, but also had to work a lot harder to
find and harvest these plants due to competition with other animals, and
also due to scarcity and smaller sizes.
Many of the native peoples in North America and other places, have a
higher rate of diabetes. I think it is because these cultures were not as
agricultural based as Europeans or other societies that have raised crops
for thousands of years. Natural genetic selection would have accommodated
those that could tolerate a higher carbohydrate based diet. The cultures
that were more nomadic and tended to follow animal herds would have a lower
tolerance for large amounts of carbohydrates. Plant foods would have only
been available in season, and likely eaten more if meat wasn't available.
Grains by themselves are hard to digest for us. It was probably more of an
accident that we found we could eat them by grinding and cooking them. I
think it is unnatural for us to eat as much high starch plant matter as we
do today.
When I walk around the forests close to where I live, sometimes I imagine
what it would have been like to live long ago. Even with a book of edible
forest plants, I find difficulty locating high carbohydrate foods. If I were
stranded there, I would definitely be sharpening a stick and looking for
something to hunt. If I found a few berries along the way, that would be a
bonus.

I was never much of a junk food eater in the past. I had believed what I
was told that a 50 to 60% carbohydrate based diet was the most healthy way
to eat. If I tried to lose weight, I would cut back on meat and fats and
increase the carbs. I had heard of low carb diets, but did not believe in
there validity. My thinking has changed over the last 2 years because of
what I have been reading, and from personal experience.
Below is a before and after pic of me. I started low carb on Jan1/2004.
The before pic was taken in August of 2003 because I didn't take a picture
of myself just before dieting. The after pic was taken in October of 2004. I
had reached my goal weight of 180 in april after 3 months of eating low
carb. My exercise during weight loss was mainly walking and light weight
training. After reaching goal weight, I embarked on a more strenuous
exercise program to build some muscle. I will update my picture in October
of this year for a comparison over a 1 year period of faithful weight
training and some running. My pants waist size was 34 in Oct/04. I am
wearing 33's now. Hopefully by Oct of this year, I will be in 32's and more
muscular, less fat, and still remaining at 180.

http://ca.geocities.com/kazzy_ca/photopagetomgallant.html
Tom
210/180/180

Quoted message said:

Tom G said:

Below is a before and after pic of me. I started low carb on Jan1/2004.
The before pic was taken in August of 2003 because I didn't take a picture
of myself just before dieting. The after pic was taken in October of 2004. I
had reached my goal weight of 180 in april after 3 months of eating low

You're not the one with the green face : )

Nice pics.

Marsha/Ohio

"Marsha" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tom G said:

Below is a before and after pic of me. I started low carb on

Jan1/2004.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The before pic was taken in August of 2003 because I didn't take a

picture

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of myself just before dieting. The after pic was taken in October of

2004. I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

had reached my goal weight of 180 in april after 3 months of eating low

You're not the one with the green face : )

Yes it's me. But I don't know how that old guy got on my web page. :o)

Quoted message said:

Nice pics.

Marsha/Ohio

"Tom G" <[email hidden]> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:BATCe.1977283$Xk.1585275@pd7tw3no...

Quoted message said:

Because you are new here, be aware that my views and opinions do not
represent the way all people in this group do low carb. There are many
different people here, and they eat low carb for various reasons. Some are
type II diabetic and use low carb to control blood sugar levels. Some have
tried many different types of diets and have found that low carb is the

best

Quoted message said:

way to lose weight.

With *the best* what do you mean? simple? I'm convince that simply eating
less and healty food is a good way to loose weight.

Quoted message said:

The basic premise of why low carb works, that most agree on, is that
blood sugar levels are more stable. When eating high carb, blood sugar

tends

Quoted message said:

to go up higher and then come down lower.

When you say *high carb* do you mean only pasta bread
poatotoes...cereals...or this means elimiate some snak food with high level
of sugar?

The resulting insulin spikes cause

Quoted message said:

metabolic problems and tends to deposit the extra energy as fat ( if the
sugar stores in the muscles and liver are full ).

ok... but here the problem is the amount! of course ... if we eat too much
(in general) we get fat, or we have other healthy problem...but this is for
all of kind of food! Seem to me that you people want to find a way to keep
to eat the same amount without get fat!
I mean Chinese are eating rice from how many centuries? And they don't have
all these problem of obesity! so If chinese eat rice from centuries...
Italian people eat pasta, in North Europa eat potatoes... why all these
population doesn't have all these problems? :-/
For example people here have particulary problems with colesterol when they
often go to eat to McDonald!

[cut]...

Quoted message said:

High carb foods are a more recent invention of our agricultural

practices

Quoted message said:

(less than 10,000 years).

:-//// recent invention? we never ate only meat! Eating meat were a rare
event! Going to haunt ... capture an animal wanted a lot time and a lot of
energy!!!! have you tryed to hunt something without a rifle?

Before we started farming, fruits and vegetables

Quoted message said:

were not as big and sweet or as abundant than what was found in nature. We
still ate these foods before we farmed, but also had to work a lot harder

to

Quoted message said:

find and harvest these plants due to competition with other animals, and
also due to scarcity and smaller sizes.

Today we work in others ways... maybe we make a sedentary job... and we
spend less energy...this means that we can eat less! instead we eat more
only because it's simpler find the food! but this not means that we have to
eat all of it without thinking which is the right amount or what is good for
us!
In my country (like every country in Italy) we have tipical recipes ...even
very fatty...because people needed a lot of energy during the Winter in the
past (I live in a mountain country with cold Winter!) but now of course we
eat this dishes rarely!!!

Quoted message said:

Many of the native peoples in North America and other places, have a
higher rate of diabetes. I think it is because these cultures were not as
agricultural based as Europeans or other societies that have raised crops
for thousands of years.

Like I said...when the habits don't change with the kind of feeding... there
are problem! but is not the kind of food that you eat but simply balance it
with your life style! In Italy the recipes change with the time! always less
grease! In old recipes there were the lard...clearly today we don't use it!
too fat! some time we don't use neither butter or oil! About native peoples
I know that they have problem with alchool and this is a big cause of
diabets!

Natural genetic selection would have accommodated

Quoted message said:

those that could tolerate a higher carbohydrate based diet. The cultures
that were more nomadic and tended to follow animal herds would have a

lower

Quoted message said:

tolerance for large amounts of carbohydrates.

The natural selection doesn't work so quickly!

Plant foods would have only

Quoted message said:

been available in season, and likely eaten more if meat wasn't available.
Grains by themselves are hard to digest for us. It was probably more of

an

Quoted message said:

accident that we found we could eat them by grinding and cooking them. I
think it is unnatural for us to eat as much high starch plant matter as we
do today.

I don't think so!!! really! in fact.... we are omnivorus! that means we
need vegetables fruit and meat!! do you say that grains are hard to digest?
we don't digest the cellulose, the fibres!!! but we need fibre for our
digestion!! (even if you don't digets a thing this doesn't mean that is not
useful!) but the meat is more hardest to digest that vegetables! carnivore
have infact a longer intestine! longer then ours! In the end...but not less
important the meat is only for RICH people! that means that few people can
eat meat every day.... even because it have a highter energetic cost then
vegetables in nature. Think the numbers in a population of carnivors these
are never so high like the number of men!

Quoted message said:

When I walk around the forests close to where I live, sometimes I

imagine

Quoted message said:

what it would have been like to live long ago. Even with a book of edible
forest plants, I find difficulty locating high carbohydrate foods.

All the seeds! carbs are the resorse of energy for seeds...it's a little
riserver, only the necessary for allow the seed to became a little plant.
for example you could open a pinecone and you'd have your ration of carb!
;-)
the seeds are definitly more frequent then animals! don't you think?

If I were

Quoted message said:

stranded there, I would definitely be sharpening a stick and looking for
something to hunt. If I found a few berries along the way, that would be a
bonus.

So do you think that is more healty the meat then carb for us? in a
hamburger do you find more healthy the cheese and meat than bread? O__O

Quoted message said:

I was never much of a junk food eater in the past. I had believed what I
was told that a 50 to 60% carbohydrate based diet was the most healthy way
to eat. If I tried to lose weight, I would cut back on meat and fats and
increase the carbs. I had heard of low carb diets, but did not believe in
there validity. My thinking has changed over the last 2 years because of
what I have been reading, and from personal experience.
Below is a before and after pic of me. I started low carb on Jan1/2004.

I've never said that this kind of diet doesn't work... I only think is not
healty. not equilibrate!

Quoted message said:

The before pic was taken in August of 2003 because I didn't take a picture
of myself just before dieting. The after pic was taken in October of 2004.

I

Quoted message said:

had reached my goal weight of 180 in april after 3 months of eating low
carb. My exercise during weight loss was mainly walking and light weight
training. After reaching goal weight, I embarked on a more strenuous
exercise program to build some muscle. I will update my picture in October
of this year for a comparison over a 1 year period of faithful weight
training and some running. My pants waist size was 34 in Oct/04. I am
wearing 33's now. Hopefully by Oct of this year, I will be in 32's and

more

Quoted message said:

muscular, less fat, and still remaining at 180.

http://ca.geocities.com/kazzy_ca/photopagetomgallant.html
Tom
210/180/180

well I was 178 and in a couple of month I'm became 156 (I'm 67,86
inches)...when I decided to eat in a healthy way! that for me doesn't mean
eliminate carb from my diet... rather the contrary, I have eliminate the
execess of cheese or meat.
I have to be honest it's been hard write this post! :-P
Bye
Blueberry

For someone that professes to not have a very good working knowledge of
English, you sure go on.

--
Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. -- MFW

"Blueberry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

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"Tom G" <[email hidden]> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:BATCe.1977283$Xk.1585275@pd7tw3no...

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Because you are new here, be aware that my views and opinions do not
represent the way all people in this group do low carb. There are many
different people here, and they eat low carb for various reasons. Some
are
type II diabetic and use low carb to control blood sugar levels. Some
have
tried many different types of diets and have found that low carb is the

best

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way to lose weight.

With *the best* what do you mean? simple? I'm convince that simply eating
less and healty food is a good way to loose weight.

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The basic premise of why low carb works, that most agree on, is that
blood sugar levels are more stable. When eating high carb, blood sugar

tends

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to go up higher and then come down lower.

When you say *high carb* do you mean only pasta bread
poatotoes...cereals...or this means elimiate some snak food with high
level
of sugar?

The resulting insulin spikes cause

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metabolic problems and tends to deposit the extra energy as fat ( if the
sugar stores in the muscles and liver are full ).

ok... but here the problem is the amount! of course ... if we eat too much
(in general) we get fat, or we have other healthy problem...but this is
for
all of kind of food! Seem to me that you people want to find a way to keep
to eat the same amount without get fat!
I mean Chinese are eating rice from how many centuries? And they don't
have
all these problem of obesity! so If chinese eat rice from centuries...
Italian people eat pasta, in North Europa eat potatoes... why all these
population doesn't have all these problems? :-/
For example people here have particulary problems with colesterol when
they
often go to eat to McDonald!

[cut]...

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High carb foods are a more recent invention of our agricultural

practices

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(less than 10,000 years).

:-//// recent invention? we never ate only meat! Eating meat were a rare
event! Going to haunt ... capture an animal wanted a lot time and a lot of
energy!!!! have you tryed to hunt something without a rifle?

Before we started farming, fruits and vegetables

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were not as big and sweet or as abundant than what was found in nature.
We
still ate these foods before we farmed, but also had to work a lot harder

to

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find and harvest these plants due to competition with other animals, and
also due to scarcity and smaller sizes.

Today we work in others ways... maybe we make a sedentary job... and we
spend less energy...this means that we can eat less! instead we eat more
only because it's simpler find the food! but this not means that we have
to
eat all of it without thinking which is the right amount or what is good
for
us!
In my country (like every country in Italy) we have tipical recipes
...even
very fatty...because people needed a lot of energy during the Winter in
the
past (I live in a mountain country with cold Winter!) but now of course we
eat this dishes rarely!!!

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Many of the native peoples in North America and other places, have a
higher rate of diabetes. I think it is because these cultures were not as
agricultural based as Europeans or other societies that have raised crops
for thousands of years.

Like I said...when the habits don't change with the kind of feeding...
there
are problem! but is not the kind of food that you eat but simply balance
it
with your life style! In Italy the recipes change with the time! always
less
grease! In old recipes there were the lard...clearly today we don't use
it!
too fat! some time we don't use neither butter or oil! About native
peoples
I know that they have problem with alchool and this is a big cause of
diabets!

Natural genetic selection would have accommodated

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those that could tolerate a higher carbohydrate based diet. The cultures
that were more nomadic and tended to follow animal herds would have a

lower

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tolerance for large amounts of carbohydrates.

The natural selection doesn't work so quickly!

Plant foods would have only

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been available in season, and likely eaten more if meat wasn't available.
Grains by themselves are hard to digest for us. It was probably more of

an

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accident that we found we could eat them by grinding and cooking them. I
think it is unnatural for us to eat as much high starch plant matter as
we
do today.

I don't think so!!! really! in fact.... we are omnivorus! that means we
need vegetables fruit and meat!! do you say that grains are hard to
digest?
we don't digest the cellulose, the fibres!!! but we need fibre for our
digestion!! (even if you don't digets a thing this doesn't mean that is
not
useful!) but the meat is more hardest to digest that vegetables! carnivore
have infact a longer intestine! longer then ours! In the end...but not
less
important the meat is only for RICH people! that means that few people can
eat meat every day.... even because it have a highter energetic cost then
vegetables in nature. Think the numbers in a population of carnivors these
are never so high like the number of men!

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When I walk around the forests close to where I live, sometimes I

imagine

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what it would have been like to live long ago. Even with a book of edible
forest plants, I find difficulty locating high carbohydrate foods.

All the seeds! carbs are the resorse of energy for seeds...it's a little
riserver, only the necessary for allow the seed to became a little plant.
for example you could open a pinecone and you'd have your ration of carb!
;-)
the seeds are definitly more frequent then animals! don't you think?

If I were

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stranded there, I would definitely be sharpening a stick and looking for
something to hunt. If I found a few berries along the way, that would be
a
bonus.

So do you think that is more healty the meat then carb for us? in a
hamburger do you find more healthy the cheese and meat than bread? O__O

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I was never much of a junk food eater in the past. I had believed what
I
was told that a 50 to 60% carbohydrate based diet was the most healthy
way
to eat. If I tried to lose weight, I would cut back on meat and fats and
increase the carbs. I had heard of low carb diets, but did not believe in
there validity. My thinking has changed over the last 2 years because of
what I have been reading, and from personal experience.
Below is a before and after pic of me. I started low carb on Jan1/2004.

I've never said that this kind of diet doesn't work... I only think is not
healty. not equilibrate!

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The before pic was taken in August of 2003 because I didn't take a
picture
of myself just before dieting. The after pic was taken in October of
2004.

I

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had reached my goal weight of 180 in april after 3 months of eating low
carb. My exercise during weight loss was mainly walking and light weight
training. After reaching goal weight, I embarked on a more strenuous
exercise program to build some muscle. I will update my picture in
October
of this year for a comparison over a 1 year period of faithful weight
training and some running. My pants waist size was 34 in Oct/04. I am
wearing 33's now. Hopefully by Oct of this year, I will be in 32's and

more

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muscular, less fat, and still remaining at 180.

http://ca.geocities.com/kazzy_ca/photopagetomgallant.html
Tom
210/180/180

well I was 178 and in a couple of month I'm became 156 (I'm 67,86
inches)...when I decided to eat in a healthy way! that for me doesn't mean
eliminate carb from my diet... rather the contrary, I have eliminate the
execess of cheese or meat.
I have to be honest it's been hard write this post! :-P
Bye
Blueberry

"Doug Freyburger" <[email hidden]> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Blueberry said:

But good rule is if you eat pasta you don't eat bread or potatoes...or
rice! so it works for other kind of food... if you
eat cheese you don't eat meat or eggs or something that contains

proteins!

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we eat 80g of pasta (for lunch for example) and nothing else, then for
dinner we eat the main course (but never pasta and main course !)

Those are small portions. Eat little; do not get fat.

So if you don't want get fat... or if you want lose weight you can simply
eat *small portions* ...right?

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Often people have intolerance without knowing it. I was 40
before I learned I am wheat intolerant. I had never gone
a week wheat-free in my life up until that point.

Because with this kind of diet are you losing weight? for this do you think
you are wheat intolerant?

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but I think is dangerous follow a so extreme diet only because you are
a little bit over weight. If it's a healthy problem... I don't speak any
more!

If you think low carbing is extreme, then you have never
read one of the books on the topic. So you write out of
ignorance. Ignorance is cureable - Go read one of the
books.

At the contrary I've read...and more I'm reading...more I'm surprise that so
many people are following this kind of diet! I'm reading about Atkins
diet...and the goal of this kind of diet is eliminate sugar free in the
blood to force the body to consume the fat! Practically you WANT induce
ketosis!
you are trying to cheat the body...eating without sugar but with hight tenor
of protein and fat. so the body is forced to consume the fat! But producing
a big amount of ketons force the body to eliminate them...and this is not a
naturale condition. ketons are toxic! you lose calcium, (osteoporosi...heart
problems...) you risk avitaminosis, and other problems...and in the end when
you stop the diet you get back the weight you have lost.

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I think (but it's only my opinion) that the better thing is eating a

little

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of all of kind of food, to cover all of necessity.

If that approach worked for everyone, there would be no
fat people in the world.

In fact...I'm sorry but there's not fat people in the world (if with *world*
you don't mean America or West) but only in *our* world!
And here in Europe we don't seem have a such big problem (yet!) like in
America.

do you honestly think that

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there is even one fat person anywhere in the world who
has not tried that approach?

Fat people that try to follow a diet and fail ...they are not
costant enough ... or they are not strong enough to give up food.
Often our stressful life lead us to find comfort in the food.

No one approach works for

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everyone. The most obvious approaches work for some but
fail for many.

Why do they fail?

And so you think and you have opinions,

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but there are hard facts that state othterwise. Low
carb is an approach that works for many who have failed
using other approaches.

is the goal worth the risk?
Blueberry