George Bush is a war criminal

[roadhog]

Maybe fans of the Man-Ape like roadhog & jaguar75 ought to read Michael C. Ruppert's book "Crossing the Rubicon". You'll see the real facts behing the neo-con's complicity and guilt. It is very well researched and documented.

No wait - you're not supposed to look behind the curtain.

Ok, so you have accused me of being a fan of the Man-Ape. Forgive me if I do not know what that is supposed to mean. I am familiar with your book, although I have not read it. Which comments have I made here with which you disagree in order to make your accusation (whatever it means)?

Do you think the US is trying to take over the world?
Do you think N Korea's leader is not a wack job?
Do you think there are not Iraqi warplanes buried in the sand?
Do you think the US military has been destructive in all the places I mentioned?
Do you think the US Army and Marines do not have manpower issues right now given their committments?
Do you think SE Asia doesn't have many more complex issues than the axis of evil reference?

These questions are an exhaustive reference of my statements on this thread. Which of these questions do you answer "yes" to as a basis for your accusation? Please tell me and I'll be happy to debate that topic with you. Or you could describe what your accusation even means. Then we can debate whether or not that's true. I did enjoy Planet of the Apes as a kid so maybe you're right...

 

[Colorado Ryder]

Another important factor is the old NATO alliance that seems like becoming a historical dinosaur as European countries move towards a more stable alliance under European lines.

Now thats a novel idea. Europe will actually start to pay for their own defense.

 

[Colorado Ryder]

These days it's not customary to study ancient history in class, but there is an interesting comparison between the U.S. under Bush and Imperial Athens around 400 B.C. Athens led a powerful coalition of democracies.
But the Athenians became arrogant, war-hungry, greedy and imperialistic (trying to force democracy on other countries they invaded). Former allies eventually got fed up with them and began to ditch the alliance and the biggest mistake that cost them their alliances was to invade Sicily (for tin instead of oil).

The US is normally compared to the Roman Empire. Becoming corrupt and lazy on the inside.

Did Athens become power hungry? Or did Sparta become alarmed at the strength of Athens?

 

[Carrera]

Sure, Athens was a very strong democracy and, as we know, democracy was invented mainly by the Athenians.
But now you made the point I see Britain as resembling the Roman Empire more so than the U.S. since Britain was the same kind of Empire and, hey, we we're occupied by the Romans for hundreds of years (you can still see Hadrian's wall even today). America has never had similar colonies, mainly economic expansion and bases overseas. So, I guess old Imperial Athens and America are more similar since both headed security alliances, favoured imposed democracy but were too militaristic to hold back the generals and military adventurists.
I see the U.S. today as far weaker than it was under Clinton and that's a point Kerry failed to get across in the last election, although he stated it quite often. As I recall, under Clinton the dollar was doing very nicely as well.

The US is normally compared to the Roman Empire. Becoming corrupt and lazy on the inside.

Did Athens become power hungry? Or did Sparta become alarmed at the strength of Athens?

 

[Carrera]

You hit the nail on the head. Europe has been lazy for years due to being in the middle of the cold war. Europeans enjoyed a comfortable life, not investing billions in defence, since the Americans were doing it on their behalf. They now pay the price for this, of course, by having a strong economy but being behind in defence.
Europe will have to make that investment and suffer a possible loss in living standards in order to follow the European dream. There are, at least, signs this is happening and, sure, it's time we stood on our own two feet and readapted.

Now thats a novel idea. Europe will actually start to pay for their own defense.

 

[Carrera]

Nothing riles Fred C. As has been said he has the skin of a rhino.

Your gonna get Fred all riled up.

 

[Carrera]

I thought Ryan's theme was really good and I guess he gets picked on because his classmates maybe resent him having his own views. If so, he's in good company. Look at the abuse Muhammad Ali suffered when he stood against Vietnam yet, after a few years, everyone wanted to be snapped by his side.
You might have heard of a case in Tennesse lately where a lone girl made a stand against bullying by her classmates and pressured governors in Tennesse to recognise her right to education. The fact was she was a fairly articulate student who kept getting picked on by her classmates, making it almost impossible to follow her classes at school.
Now she's encouraging other victims to make a stand.
Yes, sometimes very positive things happen in the U.S. where the yanks make clear stands on issues we ought to stamp out in this country, but we never seem to stir (bullying over here is a real problem).
Obviously what happened to Ryan is his mates (probably football fans) see him as odd for being a cyclist. Over here it's the same. Everyone loves a footballer and cyclists are seen as minorities.

Yes, thank you for molding our youth... So when we are old and grey sittin on our front porch and we are attacked, thanks to you, our youth will be too busy trying to lynch the president to come to our defense.

Perhaps young ryan wouldn't get picked on if he stopped listening to ridiculous statements such as calling our President a "war criminal" If this is so, throw Clinton in the brigg as well...

 

[FredC]

Over here it's the same. Everyone loves a footballer and cyclists are seen as minorities.

What do you know about football? Where you live can't even get a decent team together. So you're very much like them. 2nd Division material.

 

[Colorado Ryder]

Europe will have to make that investment and suffer a possible loss in living standards in order to follow the European dream.

Just what is the European dream?

 

[FredC]

Ryan

If you did not know about it already, www.democraticunderground.com is a political forum that will make you feel right at home. It is kind of silly talking politics on a cycling forum.

Nobody invited you to gatecrash our long term party. So get your coat on and clear off before we set Peabody on you.
Don't come back now, ya hear.

 

[darkboong]

Have we been destructive in the Balkans for the past 10 years?

Yes. Read & Learn. The US actively provoked the Kosovo war, and the US dug it's heels in on reacting quickly to the first bout of civil war in Yugoslavia. The "Old Europe" countries wanted to get straight in there, and had the units to do so.

Have we been destructive on the Korean peninsula in the past 40 years?

Yes. Read & Learn. Millions dead. Families seperated. Land poisoned.

Have we been destructive in Haiti?

Yes. Read & Learn.

In Europe during the cold war?

In the main, nope (if you don't count the jets falling out of the sky).

In Japan?

I'd say the only military use of Nukes on civillians was pretty destructive, let alone the fire bombing.

In Honduras?

Yes. Read & Learn. The death squads, the dead nuns, etc...

In Sri Lanka following the tsunami?

Nope, but then again you weren't fighting.

In the Phillipines?

Yes. Read & Learn. Haven't you read *any* history books ?

In Kuwait?

Yes. Look at the mass graves left behind and the film of living Iraqi soldiers being bulldozed into them.

In countless other places I can't remember right now that have welcomed our help in countless natural disasters and destabilizing and bloody cultural conflicts?

A rather simplistic, one-sided and naive view IMO. The same kind of views wer e expressed by apologists for the British Empire too.

There is quite a bit more behind that destructive capability.

Military force is 80% logistics according to some people. The US still has the largest and most destructive military force on the planet, regardless of how much of it is logistics. The stats bear that out, whatever we think about the rights and wrongs of it.

 

[jhuskey]

Just what is the European dream?

For the USA to become a nightmare. That's the European dream.
Yes ,yes I know some think it already is, whatever!

 

[Carrera]

Gordon Banks originated from around here but, to be honest, I can't abide football.
I just wish someone would challenge David Beckham to cycle, run and swim and let's see how fit he really is.

What do you know about football? Where you live can't even get a decent team together. So you're very much like them. 2nd Division material.

 

[darkboong]

No one. We may be increasing our production but, Bush will need robots to use them as the youth have been shown to be too smart to enlist (#'s consistently down all the way around, weren't you aware of this fact ).

Simple answer to that : Conscription.

We are working on developing a robot army but it is a decade or so off. Then we will conquer the world, I tell you Moo hoo ha ha ha ha...

TBH I'm hoping that your Robot Army is built on ICs made in China and designed in India. The chances of that happening are very good at the moment given that the local skillbase is being ground into the dust and locked up thanks to the new bankruptcy laws...

 

[Carrera]

High welfare and high employment standards. Above all, a secular society not religious based. Also very important, an emphasis on human rights in all spheres. It's the failure to adhere to human rights that always led me to attack Bush so vehemenently (as opposed to Clinton who has done a good deal to support Third World causes and liberal values).

Just what is the European dream?

 

[zapper]

Obviously what happened to Ryan is his mates (probably football fans) see him as odd for being a cyclist. Over here it's the same. Everyone loves a footballer and cyclists are seen as minorities.

Remember, we have only heard his side of the story. You remain objective here and consider that perhaps…just perhaps it has nothing to do with cycling vs. football but rather someone who goes out of his way to be different(ok no problem)…but then throws little temper tantrums when his peers disagree with his “religion is evil, GWB is a nazi war criminal, republicans must all die and burn in hell mantra…Naw…I’m sure it has nothing to do with that Not in the small town of hootersville, pixley, mayberry …

 

[jhuskey]

Nothing riles Fred C. As has been said he has the skin of a rhino.

Yes and breath to match.
Just kidding Fred.

 

[jhuskey]

Remember, we have only heard his side of the story. You remain objective here and consider that perhaps…just perhaps it has nothing to do with cycling vs. football but rather someone who goes out of his way to be different(ok no problem)…but then throws little temper tantrums when his peers disagree with his “religion is evil, GWB is a nazi war criminal, republicans must all die and burn in hell mantra…Naw…I’m sure it has nothing to do with that Not in the small town of hootersville, pixley, mayberry …

Wait a moment Zap. I have alway thought that Mayberry was a cool place to live. I mean Andy and Barney and Floyd.

 

[jaguar75]

Huh ? The Commander in Chief of the USA has repeatedly stated that a goal in Iraq was to bring Democracy to Iraq (and he has since broadened it to include the whole Middle East). Let's face it : He's the guy who gave the order to invade, so I figure he's the one who knows what the goals are. If "bringing Democracy" wasn't one of the goals then you have a bunch of unappetizing possibilities to choose from.

* Bush is unfit to be Commander in Chief because he is a congenital liar.
* Bush is unfit to be Commander in Chief because he is too retarded.
* Bush is unfit to be Commander in Chief because he is too irresponsible.
* Bush is unfit to be Commander in Chief because he is deluded.
* Bush is unfit to be Commander in Chief because he is an ego-maniac.
... etc ...

America has the most destructive military force the world has ever seen. Bush is *rapidly* expanding the size and scope of that force in the face of practically *zero* *military* opposition. China doesn't even count, lots of folks, yes, but it's military power is miniscule by comparison with America and the gap is widening *rapidly* at the moment (in America's favour). America already has the largest Nuclear weapon capability, and it's *growing* despite the fact the Cold War ended years ago.

All that begs the question : WTF are you gonna do with all that overkill ? Sit at home and polish your rockets ? Doubt that somehow.

He used the term "democracy" but he was not implying that Iraq setup a government like the US. The term "democracy" applies to any form of govenment where officials are elected by the people and no one man or woman has absolute power. These are the basic underlying themes. When I said that the goal was for Iraq to rule itself I was correct this "democracy" would be one in which the Iraqi people had the power not a ruthless dictator.


You think I am shoveling ****...what sewer did you get all of that garbage above from...You think that the US's nuclear stockpile is getting bigger...you don't really know much about the military do you? Los Alamos...has not turned out a new weapon in over 10 years. In fact the big danger after the cold war ended for both the US and Russia was the weapons designers from their equivilent facility were starting to disappear...they were turing up later in middle eastern labs. The US and Russia had to put a stop to this immediately. Most of the scientists from Los Alamos and the Russian Equivilent facility have been spending the better half of a decade learning how to deal with the decaying warheads that were all put into bunkers following the nuclear reduction intiatives of the post cold war.

Granted the US has developed some really nasty non-nuclear weapons but has done so not just for herself...a lot of these weapons are developed here but they are done so with additional funding from allied nations that will also be using them. The US is a formidible military force...no doubt but it is now

 

[jaguar75]

Yes. Read & Learn. The US actively provoked the Kosovo war, and the US dug it's heels in on reacting quickly to the first bout of civil war in Yugoslavia. The "Old Europe" countries wanted to get straight in there, and had the units to do so.



Yes. Read & Learn. Millions dead. Families seperated. Land poisoned.



Yes. Read & Learn.



In the main, nope (if you don't count the jets falling out of the sky).



I'd say the only military use of Nukes on civillians was pretty destructive, let alone the fire bombing.



Yes. Read & Learn. The death squads, the dead nuns, etc...



Nope, but then again you weren't fighting.



Yes. Read & Learn. Haven't you read *any* history books ?



Yes. Look at the mass graves left behind and the film of living Iraqi soldiers being bulldozed into them.



A rather simplistic, one-sided and naive view IMO. The same kind of views wer e expressed by apologists for the British Empire too.



Military force is 80% logistics according to some people. The US still has the largest and most destructive military force on the planet, regardless of how much of it is logistics. The stats bear that out, whatever we think about the rights and wrongs of it.

My god man you actually believe this **** your spewing...next thing you are going to tell me is the US is single handedly responsible for global warming or better yet we are responsible for the disrupted migratory patterns of the Antartic Penguins...

Dude you are dangerous...I would check myself into a clinic ASAP if I were you because if you are not careful you are going to become a terrorist...full of hate on a lot of false pretenses.