Discovery in disarray.... ?
- Thread starter whiteboytrash
- Start date
We should not forget that the TdG (why de ? is this in France ?) is not a ProTour event and only has a UCI status of 1.1...... its a small race which most European riders don't give two hoots about.... in effect its a self masturbatory race for DC and other American riders.... I think its great for the US public but the race bares little significance to the ProTour calendar or for any other "real" races.... when it counts DC go missing.... one only needs to look at the GC for FW.
bobke said:
Different times on stage 2 of TdGeorgia?Dead Star said:Did anyone else note the stupidity of the race jury in handing out different times to riders in the peloton, when usually they'd just all be same time here? Oh the things they do over there(!)
Are you serious?
Riders were strung out all over the place.
The UCI rules are clear, if there's a gap between riders, they get different times.
Disco had the entire peloton strung out and the finishing circuit was a cobbled climb with a gradient max of 19%.
There were huge gaps.
Starting with Popo who0 had 100 meters on 2nd place
whiteboytrash said:
I think it is a very good race for the U.S. and much more important the Tour of California. I hope that it one day becomes much more important and attracts stronger talent. I really hope to get out to Georgia to see one day. It definitely has strong fan support and the course is good and should attract good teams.
As it stands, however, it's nothing compared to Fleche and L-B-L.
Yeah the calender is FULL, that's gonna be a big problem in the future, although... they could skip a few races in Europe: the pro tour TTT and the Eneco tour for instance.... I think it would be good for cycling if there where more continents with at least one pro tour race, why not Georgia.... Tour Down Under, Tour de Langkawi???tcklyde said:
I think having races in places other then the standard European ones is good for the fans of the sport. Being an American we have very little chance to see the European [or professional racers ] pros go at each other. And other cycling nations can claim the same.
The TDG is a place where we will see if Discovery is in disarray. This is a race where the riders should shine before the sponsors. In all the threads about all the subjects we discuss, argue, dissect, and revise we very rarely discuss the importance of the sponsor.
This thread is about disarray of Discovery and the reasons they are and the reasons they are not....... But the success of any team is also based on how the sponsors feel after the season. Will they pony up money next year for cycling is the question ?? I imagine that many team managers get caught between sponsors and riders.
Discovery Channel/USPS had to be really happy with their team and the TDF victories of the past 7 years. But now that they do not have a contender for the TDF how are they going about pleasing the MAN [sponsor] ????
A TDG victory will carry more weight then a Paris-Roubaix victory for most of the corporate members. And we all know in the cycling world that true in reversal.
The TDG is a place where we will see if Discovery is in disarray. This is a race where the riders should shine before the sponsors. In all the threads about all the subjects we discuss, argue, dissect, and revise we very rarely discuss the importance of the sponsor.
This thread is about disarray of Discovery and the reasons they are and the reasons they are not....... But the success of any team is also based on how the sponsors feel after the season. Will they pony up money next year for cycling is the question ?? I imagine that many team managers get caught between sponsors and riders.
Discovery Channel/USPS had to be really happy with their team and the TDF victories of the past 7 years. But now that they do not have a contender for the TDF how are they going about pleasing the MAN [sponsor] ????
A TDG victory will carry more weight then a Paris-Roubaix victory for most of the corporate members. And we all know in the cycling world that true in reversal.
A good analysis, Wolf.
And the asme circumstances apply to all teams.
From the French regional team who get a rider on a lone break featuring his sponsors name on his jersey - to the TMO and DC's of this world - they're all expected to achieve objectives of their respective sponsors.
Obviously expectations and objectives differ from team to team.
And the asme circumstances apply to all teams.
From the French regional team who get a rider on a lone break featuring his sponsors name on his jersey - to the TMO and DC's of this world - they're all expected to achieve objectives of their respective sponsors.
Obviously expectations and objectives differ from team to team.
Bad behavior whiteboy. This race is not self-masturbatory. It is a popular, well run, and exciting race that is drawing a talented a competitive field. Half the teams are protour and the other half are the best US teams that do race in Europe a good bit too. It has helped a few of the USs best riders get spots on protour teams because of the visibility is creates. (Horner, Lowe, Grajales, McCartney) It has caused protour teams with strong americans on them to come over and support those riders on home turf (Landis-Phonak, CSC Julich last year and Dave Z this, Gerolsteiner - Levi, Saunier made a good showing last year even though Horner was hurt and couldn't ride. It has done a lot in a short time for cycling in the US which we all know needs all the help it can get. What is good for US cycling is good for cycling. I flew across the country last year to watch it and it was fantastic. The only point I will grant you is that Lance showing up and winning in the race's 2nd year made it what it is today. That is one of the few things Lance has done that I feel is unimpeachably positive. Take your shots at how they perform here all you want but you are out of line trying to dog the race in this way.whiteboytrash said:
Actually, you might have a tough time taking big shots at how DC is doing with Popo's sprint yesterday and Danielson doing a surprisingly good TT today. I still hope Floyd wins but he lost a minute to Danielson on Brasstown last year and only has 4 seconds in it this time.
I agree the race is a good showcase for Americans riders in front of the American public but for the moment the race has no more status that a provincial criterium in an eastern European backwater. The race may get better in time when more and more riders come to the US to ride it. However for European riders they really have no interest in being away from Europe 2 weeks before the Giro and 8 weeks before the Tour. This being the case we should not use the race to judge someone's form for upcoming races.
For example: TommyD is peaking for the Giro so you would expect him to beat Landis in the TT but this didn't happen. Landis's peak will come 6 weeks after TommyD's and for Landis to beat him is outstanding. But again lets not use this race as measurement for future form. Its just a showcase for the cycling illiterate community and also for DC to show-off there wares to the unknowledgeable public who have never heard of Parix-Roubaix or care about Discovery’s failing at that event.
Play on !
For example: TommyD is peaking for the Giro so you would expect him to beat Landis in the TT but this didn't happen. Landis's peak will come 6 weeks after TommyD's and for Landis to beat him is outstanding. But again lets not use this race as measurement for future form. Its just a showcase for the cycling illiterate community and also for DC to show-off there wares to the unknowledgeable public who have never heard of Parix-Roubaix or care about Discovery’s failing at that event.
Play on !
barnstorm said:
Discovery fails at one little race and the people attack. Of course the American public wants Discovery to show off.. They hear that Discovery was the best team in the 100 year history of Europes biggest race the TDF. They hear that the Europeans have a hard time winning their own race..... They never heard of a guy named Armstrong until they hear he beats the best that europe has to offer, not once , but 7 straight times in the premier event in Europe. . Not even Eddy came close...... Wait.... the Euro's have won the TDF 10 times in the last 20 years ..... Americans have won it only 10 times in the last 20 years ...... It's rather boring isn't it?whiteboytrash said:I agree the race is a good showcase for Americans riders in front of the American public but for the moment the race has no more status that a provincial criterium in an eastern European backwater. The race may get better in time when more and more riders come to the US to ride it. However for European riders they really have no interest in being away from Europe 2 weeks before the Giro and 8 weeks before the Tour. This being the case we should not use the race to judge someone's form for upcoming races.
For example: TommyD is peaking for the Giro so you would expect him to beat Landis in the TT but this didn't happen. Landis's peak will come 6 weeks after TommyD's and for Landis to beat him is outstanding. But again lets not use this race as measurement for future form. Its just a showcase for the cycling illiterate public and also for DC to show-off there wares to the unknowledgeable public who have never heard of Parix-Roubaix or care about Discovery’s failing at that event.
Play on !
Of course it is expected someone should beat Landis, after all Landis is just a top Pro TT'er...
We don't have the biggest nor the best races here in the US, we just produce riders that dominate the TDF......Did I mention dominate? Did I mention 7 straight times? Did I mention that no European ever came close? I know you are going to bring up the doping thing ..... But remember , Eddy was convicted 3 times and Lance has never been convicted once....
Don't expect WBT to be reasonable, he has a serious Issue on this particular subject.
http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/issues.htm .
http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/issues.htm
.
Calm down I wasn't having a go at the US rider’s v European riders I was just saying the race is not a big race and that’s fine... we shouldn't use the race as a measurement for future form... If little TommyD going nuts in the mountains at TdG it doesn't mean that Il Falco will give up his day job and become a ten pin bowler.... a little perspective is important on what the TdG is.... that’s all I was saying... and I didn't mention that bloke who had cancer once and has track marks on his feet...
wolfix said:
I actually enjoy his stuff.... You can tell he enjoys writing it....Eldrack said:Don't expect WBT to be reasonable, he has a serious Issue on this particular subject.
http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/issues.htm
Calm down everyone !
let's keep things in perspective.
The TDG isn't the biggest race in the world - nor is it the smallest either.
I welcome the USA having more races like the TOC and TDG and I welcome US riders coming to Europe and doing well.
LeMond, Hampsten etc are widely respected over here.
European fans - cycling fans - should welcome more broad representation and race locations.
In respect of Europe doing well in the biggest race of all : no one could quibble with the record of LeMond - the guy was clean.
Ditto Hampsten. Fine riders. Honest men.
I have no difficulty with any American doing well over here : LeMond moved the sport on in a positive way and he was a breath of freshair to our sport.
let's keep things in perspective.
The TDG isn't the biggest race in the world - nor is it the smallest either.
I welcome the USA having more races like the TOC and TDG and I welcome US riders coming to Europe and doing well.
LeMond, Hampsten etc are widely respected over here.
European fans - cycling fans - should welcome more broad representation and race locations.
In respect of Europe doing well in the biggest race of all : no one could quibble with the record of LeMond - the guy was clean.
Ditto Hampsten. Fine riders. Honest men.
I have no difficulty with any American doing well over here : LeMond moved the sport on in a positive way and he was a breath of freshair to our sport.
whiteboytrash said:
You were having a crack at American fans and their lack of knowledge regarding pro cycling and its history. In the broadest sense you're right - but it was still a crack, and it doesn't apply to most of us posting here.
OK White child, you are back on track with reasonable points. I agree that it's not a race where results matter, but it is a real race and it matters because of what it is doing for American cycling, and therefore cycling in general. You are way off, though, about Discovery. It is far from their race. The past two years, a gazillion people flocked to see Lance... that is true. But America's cycling fans like me were able to get close to lots of great riders American and otherwise and that was very cool. It is a hard race, it is raced hard, and it does give some indication of form for a few people. The fact that Floyd is still in good form despite backing off to peak later after a great early spring says a lot. The fact that Danielson TTd that well is interesting despite the fact that you like to take well deserved shots at him for his silly running mouth. Does this race mean anything in the big picture of euro cycling... no, I agree with that. It means the same as the TD California for the same reasons this whole forum supported a couple of months ago... good for american cycling and good for cycling.limerickman said:
I want to reiterate, the race is far from a DC show. It was a Lance show because of the fans that showed up to mob him but most of the people on the course were very knowledgeable about the whole peloton.
barnstorm said:
I never said that the TDG was a DC race or a DC benefit gig, as it happens.
I said that TDG was neither the biggest race nor the smallest race on the calendar.
I did say that I welcome the notion of TOC and TDG : it gives American fans and the American public exposure to our sport and that is a good thing, i think.
I have no difficulty with the USA staging races of any kind - if it promotes the sport and if it promotes a potential LeMond and Hampsten to come here to Europe and race, all the better I say.
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