Did You Ride Today?

[Fourlegsgood2wheelsbad]

Really on a roll . Pun intended. Got in a warm evening ride into the Sun's glare , a little extended ends on route but blocked by gates on the waterfront. Added to my vertical !

I was real happy with the time milage and way I felt on the bike tonight. 88F and dry as a bone. Next to zero traffic - some guys in a honda accord tried to outrun me on the downhill . I coughed up 43 MPH chasing them. They smelled of weed . Both of them threw up dual "horns" ( think ronnie james dio. )for my efforts . I gave huge smile and thumbs up .

Id noticed my same route at times different elevation vertical gains. I'd read online abut the coastal paradox or something to the effect Nor cal is so extreme in terrain so expect inaccuracy from readings as only a true survey would be accurate . So the data is all projections ? Hmmm.

Only a few deer on the road tonight & no living snakes .

Some these roads just chip seal if you want to call it that. Lots of loose sections all year.

 

[cobbwheels]

Wow, you're on a roll! I don't usually ride on weekdays. Indoor training only. We're having hurricanes lately and monsoon weather.

Already caught in strong rain twice. Almost ruined my mood after the ride knowing I'll have to remove the chain and re-lube but after I dried it out, I checked the chain still well-lubed, flowing smoothly on my fingers and clean, good for another ride.

I usually avoid wet rides but if the riding bug caught me I'll forge ahead anyway. Wish they sold belt drive bikes here with IGH. Can't find any even in the used market. Maybe it's for the best as riding in the rain makes things a lot more dangerous. The source of danger remains the same - motor vehicles!

 

[Fourlegsgood2wheelsbad]

Wow, you're on a roll! I don't usually ride on weekdays. Indoor training only. We're having hurricanes lately and monsoon weather.

Already caught in strong rain twice. Almost ruined my mood after the ride knowing I'll have to remove the chain and re-lube but after I dried it out, I checked the chain still well-lubed, flowing smoothly on my fingers and clean, good for another ride.

I usually avoid wet rides but if the riding bug caught me I'll forge ahead anyway. Wish they sold belt drive bikes here with IGH. Can't find any even in the used market. Maybe it's for the best as riding in the rain makes things a lot more dangerous. The source of danger remains the same - motor vehicles!

Cobbwheels I am curious had you ever used a wax on your chain for the road bike ? I might had asked you before . I'm old so I forget a lot.
I was skeptical but I am 450 rough dusty miles of asphalt into a newly waxed shimano chain . The wax is a liquid variety and was only applied initially on the new build. It does not need any more wax or need any cleaning . Had to try it to believe it , the wax is great IMO.

I am too lazy ATM to remove my chains on my 2 other bikes , degrease and apply this liquid wax product. But I have the bottle for when I am motivated. I do admit I clean chain derailleur pulleys and reapply lube to chain every ride on those bikes , using muck off dry lube for road or MTB trail.

Yeah people in vehicles scare me too. So much as I am using the least traveled time of day a priority on my routes.

 

[Fourlegsgood2wheelsbad]

tonight back on bike again , hadn't rode since tuesday felt poor. Well I hydrated and fueled up before the ride with gels and did my best time on that route so far , nice 88F and dry .

Climbing the same grade with better rpm and more gear inches , often able to stay in big ring and stomp over rolls in the terrain without shifting to small ring in front.

Got about 8 weeks to train for my "hill climb race". Need all the vertical I can get but tonight just 1750 ft or so in the hour 13 minute ride of just under 17 miles. I can add on a few private roads for another 500 to 750 feet more of vertical but wasn't up for it tonight. Got some time in zone 4 , the fueling is paying off.

I feel if I had more flats in my ride my avg speed would rise quite a bit.
Was well with it , might or might not ride tomorrow. 2 days in a row usually a no no for me.

Even with the light traffic I'm having good impressions with the new brake light. Is much brighter in daytime.

 

[Mr. Beanz]

A solo 46. Worried about the heat but the wind was a bigger factor. 15.2 average speed. Met a great couple at the park. Riding a tandem so we had a lot to chat about.

Dinner with Gina after the ride.

 

[cobbwheels]

Cobbwheels I am curious had you ever used a wax on your chain for the road bike ? I might had asked you before . I'm old so I forget a lot.
I was skeptical but I am 450 rough dusty miles of asphalt into a newly waxed shimano chain . The wax is a liquid variety and was only applied initially on the new build. It does not need any more wax or need any cleaning . Had to try it to believe it , the wax is great IMO.

I am too lazy ATM to remove my chains on my 2 other bikes , degrease and apply this liquid wax product. But I have the bottle for when I am motivated. I do admit I clean chain derailleur pulleys and reapply lube to chain every ride on those bikes , using muck off dry lube for road or MTB trail.

Yeah people in vehicles scare me too. So much as I am using the least traveled time of day a priority on my routes.

I don't use wax because most websites and videos tell not to use wax if you have to ride in wet conditions often. The problem is you need to degrease the chain meticulously to remove road spray contaminants and re-wax each time you get caught in rain. Dry weather rides all the time, then absolutely, I'll switch to wax. Specifically with DIY melted wax formula to keep things cheap and sustainable. I'll then just re-use and re-melt wax and immerse chain every x miles. Incredibly simple and cheap. Just won't work for me riding in the rain often.

You may find it ridiculous that I use fully synthetic car engine oil as chain lube. Since most of the road contaminants are from motor vehicle engines (at least where I live and ride) and car engine oil is also designed to deal with engine contaminants....The oil itself acts both as degreaser (via detergent additives) and lubricant at the same time. Just remove the chain, put it on a rag, apply engine oil liberally on each chain roller and leave for a time. The chain will be degreased and cleaned by the engine oil. Just wipe off any excess oil before replacing chain on bike.

You can't do it with bike-specific wet lubes because these are expensive! So you need separate degreaser and finally the lube itself to complete the process which is obviously more expensive and more complicated to do. Wet lubes only have a bad rep of looking dirty. But they don't have to be dirty if you wipe out all the excess oil. The chain only needs a thin chemical film to be protected. I use "cold start" or (stop-start) engine oils in particular for hybrid cars. They have additives to leave a protective layer over metal surfaces even when cold.

 

[cobbwheels]

Did 40 miles yesterday in a nearby crit circuit within the city in between rains. I made it rain-free but the sun showed up and due to damp roads, it felt ridiculously hot and humid!

 

[Fourlegsgood2wheelsbad]

I don't use wax because most websites and videos tell not to use wax if you have to ride in wet conditions often. The problem is you need to degrease the chain meticulously to remove road spray contaminants and re-wax each time you get caught in rain. Dry weather rides all the time, then absolutely, I'll switch to wax. Specifically with DIY melted wax formula to keep things cheap and sustainable. I'll then just re-use and re-melt wax and immerse chain every x miles. Incredibly simple and cheap. Just won't work for me riding in the rain often.

You may find it ridiculous that I use fully synthetic car engine oil as chain lube. Since most of the road contaminants are from motor vehicle engines (at least where I live and ride) and car engine oil is also designed to deal with engine contaminants....The oil itself acts both as degreaser (via detergent additives) and lubricant at the same time. Just remove the chain, put it on a rag, apply engine oil liberally on each chain roller and leave for a time. The chain will be degreased and cleaned by the engine oil. Just wipe off any excess oil before replacing chain on bike.

You can't do it with bike-specific wet lubes because these are expensive! So you need separate degreaser and finally the lube itself to complete the process which is obviously more expensive and more complicated to do. Wet lubes only have a bad rep of looking dirty. But they don't have to be dirty if you wipe out all the excess oil. The chain only needs a thin chemical film to be protected. I use "cold start" or (stop-start) engine oils in particular for hybrid cars. They have additives to leave a protective layer over metal surfaces even when cold.

Sounds like you've got a good method going. Won't question any of that. The wet lube IMO needs to wipe all excess dry over and over it seems .Worked great though . Im the guy who cant remember not to let my calve touch the dirty chain . But only used that on MTB not road .

I will admit I do not ride in wet conditions ever .I ride short distances , rarely over 18-24 miles.
So whether lube is wax or dry or wet lube my 2 road bikes chains staying pretty clean.
Kinda retired the used first road bike , once I'd got on my new better bike.

 

[Fourlegsgood2wheelsbad]

A solo 46. Worried about the heat but the wind was a bigger factor. 15.2 average speed. Met a great couple at the park. Riding a tandem so we had a lot to chat about.

Dinner with Gina after the ride.View attachment 6655
View attachment 6657

Great happy smiles there. I envy that you an tandem with spouse . My wife would not dare ride in rear. 2 reasons , control "issues" and not wanting my rear -end near her face. So tandem dreams are not happening ever for us. As for now she can not ride with me as someone must stay with the needy 4legs at all times.
I'd been "served" by a older couple on a tandem on a century ride late in late 80's I tried sucking their wheel and couldn't even hold onto their draft . They dumped me like a bad habit, and they ( husband-wife) were both twice my age art that time.

15.2 on your solo thats pretty fast !

 

[cobbwheels]

Sounds like you've got a good method going. Won't question any of that. The wet lube IMO needs to wipe all excess dry over and over it seems .Worked great though . Im the guy who cant remember not to let my calve touch the dirty chain . But only used that on MTB not road .

I will admit I do not ride in wet conditions ever .I ride short distances , rarely over 18-24 miles.
So whether lube is wax or dry or wet lube my 2 road bikes chains staying pretty clean.
Kinda retired the used first road bike , once I'd got on my new better bike.

I actually spend several minutes just wiping out the excess oil. Once before putting the chain back on the bike and then back pedal for a minute then wipe down, repeat several times, and also wipe down the chain ring and jockey wheels of the RD.

It drove my curiosity towards using wax because you don't have to wipe down with wax, especially with molten wax immersion method. And it seemed like wax is less maintenance work IF you never ride in rain.

Ironically in better circumstances, I'd rather have a belt driven bike. The lowest maintenance option possible!

 

[Fourlegsgood2wheelsbad]

cobbwheels. do you carry a chain breaker on rides.? Belt drive is appealing to me too. But looks costly might have limitations of inch range or number of gears . Have not researched these bikes much.

 

[cobbwheels]

cobbwheels. do you carry a chain breaker on rides.? Belt drive is appealing to me too. But looks costly might have limitations of inch range or number of gears . Have not researched these bikes much.

Yup, I always carry chain breaker and 1 cm length of spare chain on my tool bag.

I've seen brand new < $1,000 aluminum belt drive gravel bikes with Shimano Nexus IGH 8 speed. The ~$2000 models would have >11 speed IGH.

Because IGH is almost always limited to a fixed size chainring (1x), it won't have the same gear inch range as 2x or 3x drivetrains. My gravel bike has 1x9 regular chain and derailleur drivetrain. I actually converted it from 2x to 1x resulting to bigger shifting gaps and reduced gear inch range but didn't notice it to be a problem.

I do strength training off the bike with free weights and some of the strength workouts I do with weights are for track sprinters even though I never sprint on rides (I do sprint on indoor stationary bike though). It broadened my comfortable cadence range by a large degree. Both increasing my maximum and reducing my minimum comfortable cadence range. I started out with small dumbells for women to avoid injury especially at my age and increasing weight by a tiny amount every two weeks to avoid injury. Not young anymore! It made me faster but also made me less sensitive to large shifting gaps.

 

[Fourlegsgood2wheelsbad]

thanks for enlightening me cobbwheels ! Am just learning about even what I am riding ATM
I was ignorant to much of the info you had posted regarding belt drive and IGH ! Perhaps one day a belt drive for me.
Because I'd been completely out of cycling from roughly early mid 90's to about June 2022 , I hadn't even learned about any the changes in road trail commuter bikes ect.

Funny I too hit strength training along with cycling . Really a benefit long as I don't overtrain to the point where I'm grounded for days . Im felt so so skinny starting cycling that I needed to build my base strength and add some muscle mass.

 

[cobbwheels]

No problem fourlegs!

You probably don't need belt drive since you never deal with wet riding conditions but maybe advantageous to MTB even in dry conditions. There are drawbacks to belt drive. Ironically, weight isn't one of them. Although the IGH mech is heavier but not by much, the carbon belt is light compared to chain so all in all, it weighs about the same.

The con (and probably the only one) of belt drive is higher resistance compared to chain drive. The belt needs to be tight, otherwise, it will skip when you're pushing hard on the pedals. But we lightweight riders may be able to have a little less tension since we don't push the pedals as hard as heavy riders.

I've seen videos of riders sprinting on a belt drive gravel bike. But yet to see a pro racer sprint a belt drive bike. Would be interesting to see how the belt holds up under high power athletes. It's gaining popularity first and foremost among gravel bikes because of the dusty riding conditions even in dry weather.

I'm still very skinny with strength training! I do freeweights so my arms are involved but my legs and core muscles get the most of the strength exercises. It's a mystery that my legs are considerably stronger than before yet, it didn't get any visibly bigger. I didn't gain much weight either, 1 or 2 lbs tops or probably just gas or fat as I've not been doing my 70 miler route lately due to monsoon rains. Moss-covered roads in the mountains due to constant raining is going to be very slippery and dangerous even to motor vehicles.

 

[Fourlegsgood2wheelsbad]

I'd think the big issue for trying belt for riding road is needing the inch range I'm used to.
My current road set up of 50/34 11/32T gives 28" to 121". Use every gear on every ride ,and I like to be able pedal at 40plus when needed.
I've a 1x12 drivetrain on my MTB and get annoyed every ride where it falls short in range.( top end)
Wish I'd a 2nd ring in front on that bike .

 

[cobbwheels]

I'd think the big issue for trying belt for riding road is needing the inch range I'm used to.
My current road set up of 50/34 11/32T gives 28" to 121". Use every gear on every ride ,and I like to be able pedal at 40plus when needed.
I've a 1x12 drivetrain on my MTB and get annoyed every ride where it falls short in range.( top end)
Wish I'd a 2nd ring in front on that bike .

I've been playing with a bike power calculator https://www.omnicalculator.com/sports/cycling-wattage and this is the result I got when you pedal on descents.

To descend at 42 mph on a road bike with hands on the drops, slick tires, aero position, and for a rider weighing around 65 kg with bike around 11 kg, you need a gradient of -9.2% more or less.

To descend 5 mph faster or at 47 mph by pedaling at the same -9.2% gradient, you need to output 363 watts for a person who weighs around 65 kg or around 5.6w/kg.

Also at around 45 mph, the cadence at 50/11 gear ratio would be at 125 rpm. 363 watts or 5.6w/kg at 125+ rpm would be Zone 4 effort to most recreational cyclists!

If you're only doing around 200 watts, then your descending speed will only increase to 45 mph or +3 mph. I'd bet you'll go faster by doing some sort of an aero tuck but I doubt you'll be to pedal comfortably at 200+ watts in the aero tuck.

This is crazy! The math I mean. But if you're doing it as added workout value in a short ride, then yes, do it as long as it's safe....But in a long ride like a century ride, I will strongly advise you NOT to do it. Coast on every descent, use that opportunity to rest your legs and your back. Trust me, you'll finish your century ride sooner if you coast on descents! It's my experience even on shorter 70 mile rides. If my legs are fresher for the climbs, I'll make it home sooner.

 

[Fourlegsgood2wheelsbad]

A solo out and back plus loop

I've been playing with a bike power calculator https://www.omnicalculator.com/sports/cycling-wattage and this is the result I got when you pedal on descents.

To descend at 42 mph on a road bike with hands on the drops, slick tires, aero position, and for a rider weighing around 65 kg with bike around 11 kg, you need a gradient of -9.2% more or less.

To descend 5 mph faster or at 47 mph by pedaling at the same -9.2% gradient, you need to output 363 watts for a person who weighs around 65 kg or around 5.6w/kg.

Also at around 45 mph, the cadence at 50/11 gear ratio would be at 125 rpm. 363 watts or 5.6w/kg at 125+ rpm would be Zone 4 effort to most recreational cyclists!

If you're only doing around 200 watts, then your descending speed will only increase to 45 mph or +3 mph. I'd bet you'll go faster by doing some sort of an aero tuck but I doubt you'll be to pedal comfortably at 200+ watts in the aero tuck.

This is crazy! The math I mean. But if you're doing it as added workout value in a short ride, then yes, do it as long as it's safe....But in a long ride like a century ride, I will strongly advise you NOT to do it. Coast on every descent, use that opportunity to rest your legs and your back. Trust me, you'll finish your century ride sooner if you coast on descents! It's my experience even on shorter 70 mile rides. If my legs are fresher for the climbs, I'll make it home sooner.

thats a great reply. Sounds reasonable. I’m recording max crank rpm @146Rpm. Last nights ride. Of course not a lot just like to over spin before / during some climbs and decente. Esp on big chainring In between - on the rolling parts. I’m not much into coasting, most all my rides I time - I compete with myself over fixed route I pedal up to a certain rpm then lower chin to stem for a bit . Then I will coast. ( mostly for sweeping blind turns that I won’t pedal thru. )

Bike Is an endurance bike but is really about lowering my chin imo . The speed picks up well in that “ balancing pizza on my back “ position. Had pedaled to up to 45 mph on that bike .aero position almost Seems like one shift up when I hunker down in the flats
I’m not doing any centuries and few rides beyond 2 hours. My back and torso tolerate my short rides with some “help from my friends “ lol.

 

[Fourlegsgood2wheelsbad]

"To descend at 42 mph on a road bike with hands on the drops, slick tires, aero position, and for a rider weighing around 65 kg with bike around 11 kg, you need a gradient of -9.2% more or less."

Interesting because the decent on my route is -9% get about that speed and my bike with bottles 11kg. Thanks for plugging in my numbers! Im 63.5 kg today...

Noted on some the peddling on decending my HR was almost as high as the uphill parts of the very same grade ( other direction ) and definitely higher HR than in the flats. Adrenaline or just a downhill "grinder"?

 

[cobbwheels]

I think you mentioned your weight before! The bike weight is common and the rest I found through trial and error with the calculator.

True. A little bit of adrenaline in descents and my observation that our legs are more efficient if we apply "strong torque" in shorter duration per pedal stroke such as during descents. When we pedal, the torque we apply to the pedal fluctuates and there's a sizeable difference between the max and min torque values even if we're trying to apply torque evenly and smoothly throughout the pedal revolution. The max torque I would call the "strong torque" (I only made that up!).

I found the amount of time we apply strong torque in each pedaling stroke has significant impact to our pedaling efficiency which affects our HR and perceived effort. How long we apply strong torque per pedal stroke is most strongly affected by how quickly the bike loses speed and to a lesser extent, our pedaling technique, muscle recruitment, and muscle strength. When the bike loses speed more quickly as you stop pedaling such as during a climb or in the presence of headwind, we apply strong torque in longer duration per pedal revolution and this is biomechanically less efficient for our legs.

This is why the vast majority, of riders will make less power on climbs than on flats or descents at the same perceived effort or even same HR.

 

[Fourlegsgood2wheelsbad]

woah , that sounds logical. lots to learn still !