broken clavicle...surgery or not?

[tdonne2]

Alienator, You are contributing nothing to this forum. The guy just wants to hear some stories and outcomes from those in a similar situation. The amount of time you have taken to mock this poor guy is pathetic. Please spare us all from any further schoolyard antics. Thanks, -everyone reading this forum

 

[alienator]

Originally Posted by tdonne2 .

Alienator,
You are contributing nothing to this forum. The guy just wants to hear some stories and outcomes from those in a similar situation. The amount of time you have taken to mock this poor guy is pathetic. Please spare us all from any further schoolyard antics.
Thanks,
-everyone reading this forum

By "everyone", do you mean all of your personalities or the people you pretend to lead? I'll assume your misappropriated universal voice comes from the same place that your poor reading skills do. After all, this is what the person asked/said:

...which the doctor said should mend on its own any how i have to go back in 6 weeks to have it checked if its not joining he will plate it for me ime not in to much pain but moving that side as much as possible am i doing more harm than good by doing that?

He is in fact looking for medical advice since he's asking what only a doctor could answer, i.e. if he's doing more harm than good.

Your valuable input and sage words have been noted and given their due worth. I long for the day when we can meet and share an understanding hug.

 

[tdonne2]

I would make belittling and condescending comments in this o so important internet argument rebuttal, but I feel as though your therapist already has enough on his plate with your obvious daddy dominance issues. I would hate to be responsible for yet another internet facilitated tantrum. Moving on....

treble99,

It is my personal opinion that significantly moving your arm before the bone healing process has at least reached the soft callus stage would be counterproductive to healing. Here is some information to educate yourself: http://www.engin.umich.edu/class/bme456/bonefracture/bonefracture.htm

My favorite orthopedic surgeon for clavicles is Dr. Sanders from sanders clinic(http://www.sandersclinic.net/commondisorders.html). I do not know the reputation of your current Dr., but if you decide to let Dr. Sanders operate on you, it is a one and done type of deal. He will not sew you back up until he is sure that bony union will result from his work. He even sponsors the health forum on thumpertalk.com :http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=48 . Feel free to start a thread on there to get free advice from a real Dr. The responses are more educated and less self-satisfying there as well. Make sure to post your xrays.

I originally posted a few pages back on my experiences with my operation. The gap left between my bone ends, as well as my premature movement of my arm resulted in a non-union. I had my second operation in may of this year, and have been feeling better ever since. Like many others, I had an autograft from my illiac crest taken to stimulate healing.

Cliffnotes: there are many factors in the healing process. You moving your arm too much is very likely a negative one. If you go see Dr. Sanders, you will have no reason to revisit this thread.

 

[treble99]

thank you to all the sensable replies to my post..../img/vbsmilies/smilies/rolleyes.gifhaving been back to hospital today and having an xray on it the doctor is telling me there is very little chance of it healing on its own and has told me to go back in another four weeks if its the same my only option is surgery the only problem i have is i have 90% movement in it at the moment and not a massive amount of pain either coudnt believe it when i looked at the xray today and theirs a big gap between the bones but still have the good movement?just want to get out on my bike!! ps i thought the idea of forums was to offer advice and share experances etc may be ime wrong? cheers steve ile keep you posted and theres loads of good reading on this forum/img/vbsmilies/smilies/icon14.gif

 

[qdc15]

You can have lots of movement with a broken clavicle and you can ride your bike!

I rode to the Dr. appt. and rode home after a diagnosis of fracture four days after injury. The first thing the doctor asked me to do was raise my arm as high as I could. I raised it straight up to the ceiling which was painful, but I always had 100% range of motion. I was not offered a sling. I was advised to take a couple of weeks off my job as bike messenger, but I was not told to avoid bicycling or any other activities.

I wish I had sought free internet advice like that provided in tdonne2's post in addition to the advice I got from the licensed medical doctor.

So I've lived with non-union for seven years now and it's starting to bother me more.

tdonne2 wrote "It is my personal opinion that significantly moving your arm before the bone healing process has at least reached the soft callus stage would be counterproductive to healing."

I agree but I'm not a doctor. I have suffered four clavicle fractures. (I thought three but doctor saw evidence of prior fracture in the left one so that's four I guess).

 

[alienator]

Originally Posted by qdc15 .

You can have lots of movement with a broken clavicle and you can ride your bike!

I rode to the Dr. appt. and rode home after a diagnosis of fracture four days after injury. The first thing the doctor asked me to do was raise my arm as high as I could. I raised it straight up to the ceiling which was painful, but I always had 100% range of motion. I was not offered a sling. I was advised to take a couple of weeks off my job as bike messenger, but I was not told to avoid bicycling or any other activities.

I wish I had sought free internet advice like that provided in tdonne2's post in addition to the advice I got from the licensed medical doctor.

So I've lived with non-union for seven years now and it's starting to bother me more.

tdonne2 wrote "It is my personal opinion that significantly moving your arm before the bone healing process has at least reached the soft callus stage would be counterproductive to healing."

I agree but I'm not a doctor. I have suffered four clavicle fractures. (I thought three but doctor saw evidence of prior fracture in the left one so that's four I guess).

And why didn't you ask the doc if cycling was ok? That would seem to have been an important question. You've had four clavicle fractures, but given your experience and choices with the non-union fracture, it would seem any medical advice from you would be suspect. In fact, no matter how many clavicle fractures a person has, unless that person has the appropriate medical training and has access to the relevant patient's records (including x-rays), their opinion is worth nada. That doesn't bode well for medical advice advice doled out in internet forums.

It's hard to understand why it's so unbelievably difficult for people to ask the relevant questions of their doctors or to get second, third......nth opinions from other doctors

It can be a hoot exchanging fracture or injury stories, but the medical value of such stories is non-existent.

Reality: it's a real ***** cause it can force you to actually think.

 

[qdc15]

Your assumption that the doctor did not OK my activity is not insightful.

My post was not for your benefit.

 

[alienator]

Originally Posted by qdc15 .

Your assumption that the doctor did not OK my activity is not insightful.

My post was not for your benefit.

You said you weren't told to avoid cycling. Does this mean that you were told that cycling was ok?

It doesn't matter who your post was for or who was supposed to benefit from it. This is a public forum, so anyone is free to respond. It's simple. Really. Deep thinking isn't required to understand that point.

 

[qdc15]

Originally Posted by alienator .

You said you weren't told to avoid cycling. Does this mean that you were told that cycling was ok?

Now you're thinking!

 

[qdc15]

Originally Posted by alienator . It doesn't matter who your post was for or who was supposed to benefit from it. This is a public forum, so anyone is free to respond. It's simple. Really. Deep thinking isn't required to understand that point.

How insightful.

 

[alienator]

Originally Posted by qdc15 .




Now you're thinking!

At least someone is, but you can be forgiven for your handicap.

 

[qdc15]

Ouch! Cutting wit! Aren't you the clever one!

 

[ghike]

Treble,

I broke my collar bone (see above) and had an x-ray right after and then due to a high deductible insurance I never went back for a follow up. The pain stopped very quickly and I was back to 98% motion and doing all my normal stuff in no time at all. I used a figure 8 for 4 or 5 weeks. I thought I was fine.

As time went on I found I just didn't have the same strength in my right arm that I used to have. Couldn't throw as far or as accurately, could not hit the golf ball as far, shoulder pain after long rides. So I started aggressive exercise to strengthen it. It just wasn't going that well and I started to notice my right shoulder was developing very different muscles than my left. I ended up with a muscle across the break that was trying to stablize the break. The final straw was I started to get nerve pain in the shoulder and arm and lots of tightness in my neck causing nerve pain in the good shoulder. Sleeping became a problem. So at the 3 year mark I finally had the follow up x-ray I should have had 3 years earlier and confirmed a non-union.

There are people that live with a non-union and have no problems.

The doc said I had 3 options, leave it, have the distal piece removed and just finish life without it, or have it plated. I had it plated and it was wonderful. Sling for just one day while the "block" in the arm wore off. Then just no heavy exercise or lifting. Surgery on Thursday back at work on Monday (desk job). I couldn't sleep on the right side until about week 12 and not for the whole night, but it got better every week. Strength started to come back quickly and the neck and shoulder pain were gone.The shoulder scar is barely visible thin line. They took bone from the hip and that was a good 4 weeks before the pain was gone. The hip scar is wider and still dark red, so more visible.

After being cleared for full activity, my plate broke at week 18. Doc says because I am over 50 and the original damage when I broke it the blood supply to the distal piece was not good so it failed to join at that end. Now he wants to re-plate it and this time add BMP to the mix. I am collecting second opinions and planning on having the fix next April. My pain tolerance is pretty high and I want to ski and play ice hockey this winter, take the spring off and then on the bike in July, so it is another winter with a non-union.

When you have a non-union for as long as I did the surgery is a little more complicated as they have to clean out the fibrous tissue that has formed and then scrape both ends of the bone to expose young bone, get rid of the calcification and expose the marrow. No effect on me as I was knocked out, but probably took a little longer to repair and I believe the incision is longer.

My experience is you should be able to try life in the current state with a non-union and see how it goes and if not good you can get it plated later. Having said that, I wish I had mine plated right away and I would suggest you talk to a couple of ortho doc's and seriously consider that option.

You might want to go back through the old posts and read what others have written. I read a page or two every day as this is an awesome forum with lots of great personal experience (and links to gross movies as well). I should get through it all before the month is out!

The frustration with breaking the plate is that it was feeling so good when fixed and the knowledge that I have to do it all again. But from what I am hearing from the docs and what I read on this forum the BMP should do the trick. Apparently if you spill it on the driveway it will grow new bone.

Originally Posted by treble99 .

thank you to all the sensable replies to my post..../img/vbsmilies/smilies/rolleyes.gifhaving been back to hospital today and having an xray on it the doctor is telling me there is very little chance of it healing on its own and has told me to go back in another four weeks if its the same my only option is surgery the only problem i have is i have 90% movement in it at the moment and not a massive amount of pain either coudnt believe it when i looked at the xray today and theirs a big gap between the bones but still have the good movement?just want to get out on my bike!! ps i thought the idea of forums was to offer advice and share experances etc may be ime wrong? cheers steve ile keep you posted and theres loads of good reading on this forum/img/vbsmilies/smilies/icon14.gif

 

[KittyQ]

Quick update to my story on Page 42 - I had my plate and screws removed yesterday. So far, so good.

There obviously is now 4 holes in my bone where the screws were, meaning I have to have at least a week off work and quite a few weeks of taking it easy - no heavy lifting, cycling or playing sports - there's a risk of the bone re-fracturing.

Healing time is 6 weeks, after that (if all goes well), I'm ok to go back to contact sports (I play roller derby) and to get back on the bike.

They went through my old scar, it's a neat job, and the ugly lump has completely disappeared. I was under for two hours during this op, as the bone had started to grow around the plate and so had to be chiselled away.

So now, just a bit bruised and sore, but it's not massively painful. The nerve endings had to be cut again, so where I had recovered feeling around my shoulder, chest and upper arm, I'm now completely numb again. That's not a major issue though, doesn't cause me any problems and does generally return.

Again, I personally would highly recommend taking surgery if offered when a clavicle is originally broken. I've spoken to people who were left to heal naturally and their recovery and resulting appearnce of the collarbone is definitely worse than mine - I'd take a scar and second op to have plates removed any day of the week.

Obviously, not everyone would need the plate removing, I had mine taken out as it was starting to raise slightly, it's uncomfortable for us girlies who wear bras, it also hurts like hell if it gets knocked, and in winter when the metal gets cold. However, you do get a nice piece of hardware to show off to people

If anyone is interested, I'll update once I'm back to sports and cycling.

Hope everyone heals well!

 

[treble99]

thanks for the two posts above/img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gifit seems as though ime going to have a none union as the gap is two big but i go back in four weeks for another xray after which they will opperate if needed it doesnt cost us in the uk as we pay national insurance which caosts any how/img/vbsmilies/smilies/rolleyes.gifi will keep you posted on my progress all my mates are biking in the isle of man in two weeks looks like i will be watching insted/img/vbsmilies/smilies/hissyfit.gif

 

[qdc15]

Get that bad boy plated up! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif It be as good as new in no time!

I would have mine done but its $20G here in the land of the free.

I found a doctor who plated up my radius for a very reasonable fee after I busted it snowboarding last New Year's Eve. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/icon14.gif

 

[qdc15]

Originally Posted by alienator .


You've had four clavicle fractures, but given your experience and choices with the non-union fracture, it would seem any medical advice from you would be suspect...

That was the first one and I don't think the doctor overlooked anything except maybe my age when he allowed me to rock on. My choices were limited. Clavicles heal 90% of the time without any medical intervention. Xrays showed evidence of a fully healed fractured clavilcle I never knew I broke.

 

[todao]

I broke my clavical with a multiple distal fracture on Aug. 13 and had a titanium plate and seven screws on Aug. 24. I'm hoping to get the sling off this week, total 7 weeks. I started PT this week. I had to learn all about the injury from scratch so here's my observations:

- generally if it's a simple break that's aligned, surgery is often not suggested by Drs.
- more complicated breaks often were not suggested for surgery either but that is changing. Surgery is often the clear choice for full recovery and range of motion with complicated breaks .
- following my outpatient surgery, here are my lessons learned;
- recovery from the anastechia was worse than the surgery; aftetr six weeks I'm not back to normal energy levels. Course my body is healing, too.
- I'm 57 and they didn't make sure I could urinate before leaving the hospital, the pressure built and 9 hours later i was back in the ER for a catheter. This trip should have been unnecessary.
- the sling they gave me was uncomfortable so I bought a more expensive, but less effective, one. My doc told me the sling needs to support the weight of my arm at the elbow to take stress off the clavical. I was back to original sling.
- Wear the sling and follow Doc orders on what to do and NOT do. I think alot of people go back too soon for later negative outcomes. a few weeks of reduced activity won't make a big difference in the long run.
- Expect to sleep sitting up for 2-5 weeks. Get pillows all around you for support.
- After 6 weeks in the sling, it's amazing how much my shoulder has atrophied. But that will come back.
- Be careful of people patting you on your bad shoulder. Don't assume people have common sense.

During my recovery, my goal is to never test the strength of my plate by stressing it. It's real function is to hold the bones together to heal over time.

 

[KittyQ]

That is so true about people patting you on the shoulder! I totally forgot about that, ha!
EVERYONE wanted to give me a hug straight after my break, I'd back away from them and they would just grab me and squeeze.... Morons!

 

[yornxt]

Hi guys, this is my first post here after finding this place looking for info on this topic.

I was riding to work the other day and wiped out big landed hard on my left shoulder and fter an ambulance ride xrays etc i found out i broke my collar bone, it looks pretty gross from ther outside being able to see how badly alligned it is. Now today I went to the doctor to find out whats gonna happen and i went in he came in looked at the x ray now apparently i broke it in at least 4 maybe 5 places, now the doctor was not in the room 5 minutes total and he just told me to come back in 3-4 weeks to take some more x rays and such, after looking and reading it kind of concerns me with what i've seen online and such and i'm just wondering if anyone has any has been through a break wiith multiple spots like this and whether surgery was a better option or even if i should consider a second opinion?(they have me in a figre 8 and an arm sling) thiis is the xray here:

thanks all