General fitness, health and nutrition · Public discussion

Dr. Sandra Cabot

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
4 March 2004
Last activity
14 March 2004
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Rb
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  1. This lady does seem to me to have the highest credentials despite the "anti-alt posting" paid
    lackeys here on this newsgroup.

    whas.com.aupanscandal.php

    The PAN Scandal, It's time for a Vitamin Debate on National Television From Dr Sandra Cabot

    Since the Pan Labs scandal has grabbed the headlines I have watched as the Complementary Health Care
    industry has been used as the scapegoat for corporate greed and dishonesty.

    I would like to have my say as a medical doctor who has been researching and using nutritional
    medicine for thirty years. I have had my share of criticism as the author of the best selling book
    "The Liver Cleansing Diet" but I always believed that healthy debate and disagreement was good for
    stimulating lateral thought and forging public opinion. However I must say that the way in which the
    whole ideology of the complementary health care industry has been targeted in the wake of the Pan
    debacle is simply not cricket!

    Experts in the field of nutritional medicine have not been given a say, or really even "a look in"
    to the defamatory game. The headlines and editorial have been monopolized by business people, stuffy
    Professors of conventional medicine, politicians and consumer watchdogs.

    I watched Dr Ian Brighthope who is president of the Complementary Health Care Council and Professor
    Alistair MacLennan giving their opinions on National morning television and thought to myself "wow
    this is unfair!" Dr Ian Brighthope was interviewed first and was very nice, as he tried to defend
    the value of nutritional medicine and supplements. Unfortunately he was interviewed first and did
    not realise that his opponent had saved all his venom for the last say. Professor MacLennan contends
    that alternative medicine has the potential to cause serious harm. MacLennan said that the Pan
    affair "has given an opportunity for people to say - we're not really having to debate how much
    snake is in the snake oil, or whether there is goanna contaminating the snake oil. We are really
    having to debate - should you be on snake oil at all? ; and is this snake oil doing you any good,
    or, more of a worry, is this snake oil doing you harm?"

    I think MacLennan's comments are ridiculously irrelevant, as what does snake oil have to do with the
    sub-standard manufacture of an anti-histamine drug. Well it seems that fanatics will take any
    opportunity to get on their hobby horse. MacLennan is a Professor of Obstetrics and Gynaecology and
    has probably not been challenged with trying to help chronically ill people who have been
    disappointed with drug orientated medicine. Perhaps he should keep his know all opinion to the parts
    of the anatomy in which he is an expert.

    John Dwyer's attempts to discredit my Liver Cleansing Diet Book unwittingly helped make my book
    very famous.

    Of course there would be no show without Professor John Dwyer who has consistently rubbished
    complementary medicine for many years, and has called the practice of nutritional medicine anti-
    science, dangerous and misleading. John Dwyer's attempts to discredit my Liver Cleansing Diet Book
    unwittingly helped make my book very famous. He would usually wait till I was overseas to start the
    anti-Dr Cabot campaign and when I called for a debate, he was no where to be seen.

    Now I was surprised when Bob Carr had his say. Carr thinks the Pan affair has given opportunity to
    assess "some of the exploitation of gullible people" that took place under the guise of alternative
    therapy and complementary medicine, suggesting some therapies were not much better than those sold
    by the medicine-man hucksters of the 19th century". He inferred that we have more snake oil sales
    men now, than we did in the medieval ages! Well Bob have you been challenged with thousands of
    unwell people who have found that conventional drugs made them sicker? Where is your experience and
    scientific background that enable you to be an expert on the ethical and scientific standards of
    Complementary Medicine?

    The Australian Consumer Association was represented in the scandal by Mr. Martyn Goddard. Mr.
    Goddard must have a lot of experience in clinical medicine as he seems to believe that he must
    protect the people from the charlatans and sales men who are trying to sell them unproven remedies
    that are akin to snake oil.

    Wow we have so much snake oil around these days perhaps we should do a clinical trial on it - it
    just may have the healthy essential fatty acids to boost your brain power. Goddard states that
    complementary medicines should not be released onto the market unless they have undergone the same
    rigorous scientific scrutiny that is applied to new drugs to prove that they are safe and
    effective. Well it would have been good if clinical trials and tests had detected the toxicity of
    the cholesterol lowering drug called Lipobay before its release into a market of unsuspecting
    guinea pigs. Lipobay was subject to a world-wide withdrawal (except for Japan), because it caused a
    spate of serious muscle diseases that resulted in death in a significant number of people who were
    taking it.

    And then there is the drug called Rezeulin that was released onto the market several years ago, as a
    new treatment for diabetics. Pity that it caused acute liver breakdown and death in so many people,
    that adverts were posted in all American newspapers to tell consumers to stop taking it immediately.
    Yes it would be nice if drug companies had tests and trials that were infallible that could be used
    for drugs and nutritional supplements.

    And then you must remember the HRT scandal that achieved media notoriety in July 2002 and created a
    bomb shell in conventional medicine. This was because the American Women's Health Initiative (WHI)
    Study found that the advice doctors and drug companies had been giving women for 20 years about HRT
    was no longer strictly correct. In contrast to what women had been promised, conventional HRT did
    not protect them from cardiovascular disease, and indeed increased the risk of heart attacks,
    strokes and blood clots. Yes it was a surprise to see how quickly over 20 years of clinical research
    by drug companies could be turned on its head. The legal fraternity is now cautioning doctors to get
    their patients to sign consent forms, which detail the dangers of HRT before they can receive a
    prescription. It seems that nothing is perfectly safe to take any more!

    So now we have a "squeaky clean" pharmaceutical and medical industry calling the supporters of
    nutritional medicine snake oil salesmen - well it's hardly cricket! I think its time for a decent
    match of rugby league football where the brave opponents can have a good fight. It's time for a real
    rough game - cricket is just too nice!

    Now who should be on the opposing teams?
    1. Professors and medical doctors who do not approve of the use of supplements
    2. Medical doctors and professors who have been using nutritional medicine for years Yes it could be
    the fossils versus the snakes - it would be heated, passionate, and venomous and it would be fun
    - we know Australians are a sporting nation, so let the public decide.

    Facts to discuss The Pan debacle arose because of the substandard manufacturing of a "Travacalm"
    drug (anti-histamine) and not a nutritional supplement.

    Why was the substandard manufacturing of an anti-histamine drug used as weapon against the whole
    ideology of nutritional & herbal medicine?

    People die regularly because of side effects from drugs and rarely (if ever) from nutritional &
    herbal supplements.

    Contrary to what the opponents say about the validity of nutritional and herbal medicine, there is
    a huge volume & data base of clinical research into the efficacy of these substances.

    Corporate greed and dishonesty should not be able to use complementary medicine as a scapegoat
    for its sins.

    Many small businesses may become bankrupt because the whole CHC industry has been tarred with the
    same brush as Pan labs - there are many good Australian manufacturers of nutritional supplements
    that cannot be compared to Pan. Why should the small players (retailers & distributors) be made to
    pay for the corruption and greed of a minority? Where is corporate justice here? -

    Company and individuals that commit offences such as insider trading, insolvency trading,
    embezzlement etc, are now being scrutinized - well so should pill manufacturers that put peoples
    lives at risk.

    Medicine that is based wholly upon the use of "proven" pharmaceutical drugs does not treat the
    causes of disease- it is focused on treating the symptoms The Australian public wants nutritional
    medicine - they have proven this by spending 3 to 4 times as much money on supplements, than they
    do on drugs - obviously this is because they are not fully satisfied with conventional and/or drug
    orientated medicine.

    Why are more and more doctors doing courses in complementary and nutritional medicine? The courses
    offered by the Australian College of Nutritional & Environmental medicine are extremely popular
    with doctors who are interested in learning how to prescribe nutritional supplements.

    Important Announcement Dr Sandra Cabot's Health Formulations including the LivatoneT range, are NOT
    manufactured by PAN Pharmaceuticals Ltd.

    Our products are made by a TGA approved laboratory in Australia and our manufacturing facility
    operates to and maintains the highest standards.

    We are happy to reassure you that our products are of the highest quality.

    Dr Sandra Cabot April 28, 2003

  2. "rb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    This lady does seem to me to have the highest credentials despite the "anti-alt posting" paid
    lackeys here on this newsgroup.

    Hello, again, rubber brain.

    Can you post some proof that some people get paid? If so, please let me know where to sign up.

    I imagine getting paid for doing what is so otherwise enjoyable.

  3. They are all jealous and have to discredit her because she is a top medical person turned to the
    real medical truth method. This blows away their credibility of arguments.

    "rb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    This lady does seem to me to have the highest credentials despite the "anti-alt posting" paid
    lackeys here on this newsgroup.

    whas.com.aupanscandal.php

    The PAN Scandal, It's time for a Vitamin Debate on National Television From Dr Sandra Cabot

    Since the Pan Labs scandal has grabbed the headlines I have watched as the Complementary Health
    Care industry has been used as the scapegoat for corporate greed and dishonesty.

    I would like to have my say as a medical doctor who has been researching


    and

    Quoted message said:

    using nutritional medicine for thirty years. I have had my share of criticism as the author of the
    best selling book "The Liver Cleansing


    Diet"

    Quoted message said:

    but I always believed that healthy debate and disagreement was good for stimulating lateral
    thought and forging public opinion. However I must say that the way in which the whole ideology of
    the complementary health care industry has been targeted in the wake of the Pan debacle is simply
    not cricket!

    Experts in the field of nutritional medicine have not been given a say, or really even "a look in"
    to the defamatory game. The headlines and


    editorial

    Quoted message said:

    have been monopolized by business people, stuffy Professors of


    conventional

    Quoted message said:

    medicine, politicians and consumer watchdogs.

    I watched Dr Ian Brighthope who is president of the Complementary Health Care Council and
    Professor Alistair MacLennan giving their opinions on National morning television and thought to
    myself "wow this is unfair!" Dr Ian Brighthope was interviewed first and was very nice, as he
    tried to defend the value of nutritional medicine and supplements. Unfortunately he was
    interviewed first and did not realise that his opponent had saved all his venom for the last say.
    Professor MacLennan contends that alternative medicine has the potential to cause serious harm.
    MacLennan said that the Pan affair "has given an opportunity for people to say - we're not really
    having to debate how much snake is in the snake oil, or whether there is goanna contaminating the
    snake oil. We are really having to debate -


    should

    Quoted message said:

    you be on snake oil at all? ; and is this snake oil doing you any good,


    or,

    Quoted message said:

    more of a worry, is this snake oil doing you harm?"

    I think MacLennan's comments are ridiculously irrelevant, as what does


    snake

    Quoted message said:

    oil have to do with the sub-standard manufacture of an anti-histamine


    drug.

    Quoted message said:

    Well it seems that fanatics will take any opportunity to get on their


    hobby

    Quoted message said:

    horse. MacLennan is a Professor of Obstetrics and Gynaecology and has probably not been challenged
    with trying to help chronically ill people


    who

    Quoted message said:

    have been disappointed with drug orientated medicine. Perhaps he should


    keep

    Quoted message said:

    his know all opinion to the parts of the anatomy in which he is an expert.

    John Dwyer's attempts to discredit my Liver Cleansing Diet Book


    unwittingly

    Quoted message said:

    helped make my book very famous.

    Of course there would be no show without Professor John Dwyer who has consistently rubbished
    complementary medicine for many years, and has


    called

    Quoted message said:

    the practice of nutritional medicine anti-science, dangerous and


    misleading.

    Quoted message said:

    John Dwyer's attempts to discredit my Liver Cleansing Diet Book


    unwittingly

    Quoted message said:

    helped make my book very famous. He would usually wait till I was overseas to start the anti-Dr
    Cabot campaign and when I called for a debate, he was no where to be seen.

    Now I was surprised when Bob Carr had his say. Carr thinks the Pan affair has given opportunity to
    assess "some of the exploitation of gullible people" that took place under the guise of
    alternative therapy and complementary medicine, suggesting some therapies were not much better


    than

    Quoted message said:

    those sold by the medicine-man hucksters of the 19th century". He inferred that we have more snake
    oil sales men now, than we did in the medieval


    ages!

    Quoted message said:

    Well Bob have you been challenged with thousands of unwell people who have found that conventional
    drugs made them sicker? Where is your experience


    and

    Quoted message said:

    scientific background that enable you to be an expert on the ethical and scientific standards of
    Complementary Medicine?

    The Australian Consumer Association was represented in the scandal by Mr. Martyn Goddard. Mr.
    Goddard must have a lot of experience in clinical medicine as he seems to believe that he must
    protect the people from the charlatans and sales men who are trying to sell them unproven remedies


    that

    Quoted message said:

    are akin to snake oil.

    Wow we have so much snake oil around these days perhaps we should do a clinical trial on it - it
    just may have the healthy essential fatty acids


    to

    Quoted message said:

    boost your brain power. Goddard states that complementary medicines should not be released onto
    the market unless they have undergone the same


    rigorous

    Quoted message said:

    scientific scrutiny that is applied to new drugs to prove that they are


    safe

    Quoted message said:

    and effective. Well it would have been good if clinical trials and tests


    had

    Quoted message said:

    detected the toxicity of the cholesterol lowering drug called Lipobay


    before

    Quoted message said:

    its release into a market of unsuspecting guinea pigs. Lipobay was subject to a world-wide
    withdrawal (except for Japan), because it caused a spate


    of

    Quoted message said:

    serious muscle diseases that resulted in death in a significant number of people who were
    taking it.

    And then there is the drug called Rezeulin that was released onto the


    market

    Quoted message said:

    several years ago, as a new treatment for diabetics. Pity that it caused acute liver breakdown and
    death in so many people, that adverts were


    posted

    Quoted message said:

    in all American newspapers to tell consumers to stop taking it


    immediately.

    Quoted message said:

    Yes it would be nice if drug companies had tests and trials that were infallible that could be
    used for drugs and nutritional supplements.

    And then you must remember the HRT scandal that achieved media notoriety


    in

    Quoted message said:

    July 2002 and created a bomb shell in conventional medicine. This was because the American Women's
    Health Initiative (WHI) Study found that the advice doctors and drug companies had been giving
    women for 20 years about HRT was no longer strictly correct. In contrast to what women had been
    promised, conventional HRT did not protect them from cardiovascular


    disease,

    Quoted message said:

    and indeed increased the risk of heart attacks, strokes and blood clots.


    Yes

    Quoted message said:

    it was a surprise to see how quickly over 20 years of clinical research by drug companies could be
    turned on its head. The legal fraternity is now cautioning doctors to get their patients to sign
    consent forms, which


    detail

    Quoted message said:

    the dangers of HRT before they can receive a prescription. It seems that nothing is perfectly safe
    to take any more!

    So now we have a "squeaky clean" pharmaceutical and medical industry


    calling

    Quoted message said:

    the supporters of nutritional medicine snake oil salesmen - well it's


    hardly

    Quoted message said:

    cricket! I think its time for a decent match of rugby league football


    where

    Quoted message said:

    the brave opponents can have a good fight. It's time for a real rough


    game -

    Quoted message said:

    cricket is just too nice!

    Now who should be on the opposing teams?
    1. Professors and medical doctors who do not approve of the use of supplements
    2. Medical doctors and professors who have been using nutritional medicine for years Yes it could
    be the fossils versus the snakes - it would be heated, passionate, and venomous and it would be
    fun - we know Australians are a sporting nation, so let the public decide.

    Facts to discuss The Pan debacle arose because of the substandard manufacturing of a "Travacalm"
    drug (anti-histamine) and not a nutritional supplement.

    Why was the substandard manufacturing of an anti-histamine drug used as weapon against the whole
    ideology of nutritional & herbal medicine?

    People die regularly because of side effects from drugs and rarely (if ever) from nutritional &
    herbal supplements.

    Contrary to what the opponents say about the validity of nutritional and herbal medicine, there
    is a huge volume & data base of clinical research into the efficacy of these substances.

    Corporate greed and dishonesty should not be able to use complementary medicine as a scapegoat
    for its sins.

    Many small businesses may become bankrupt because the whole CHC industry has been tarred with the
    same brush as Pan labs - there are many good Australian manufacturers of nutritional supplements
    that cannot be


    compared

    Quoted message said:

    to Pan. Why should the small players (retailers & distributors) be made to pay for the corruption
    and greed of a minority? Where is corporate justice here? -

    Company and individuals that commit offences such as insider trading, insolvency trading,
    embezzlement etc, are now being scrutinized - well so should pill manufacturers that put peoples
    lives at risk.

    Medicine that is based wholly upon the use of "proven" pharmaceutical


    drugs

    Quoted message said:

    does not treat the causes of disease- it is focused on treating the


    symptoms

    Quoted message said:

    The Australian public wants nutritional medicine - they have proven this


    by

    Quoted message said:

    spending 3 to 4 times as much money on supplements, than they do on


    drugs -

    Quoted message said:

    obviously this is because they are not fully satisfied with conventional and/or drug orientated
    medicine.

    Why are more and more doctors doing courses in complementary and nutritional medicine? The
    courses offered by the Australian College of Nutritional & Environmental medicine are extremely
    popular with doctors


    who

    Quoted message said:

    are interested in learning how to prescribe nutritional supplements.

    Important Announcement Dr Sandra Cabot's Health Formulations including the LivatoneT range, are


    NOT

    Quoted message said:

    manufactured by PAN Pharmaceuticals Ltd.

    Our products are made by a TGA approved laboratory in Australia and our manufacturing facility
    operates to and maintains the highest standards.

    We are happy to reassure you that our products are of the highest quality.

    Dr Sandra Cabot April 28, 2003

  4. Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Dr. Sandra Cabot
    From: "Gymmy Bob" [email hidden]
    Date: 3/4/2004 5:57 PM Pacific Standard Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    They are all jealous and have to discredit her because she is a top medical person turned to the
    real medical truth method. This blows away their credibility of arguments.

    "she" is actually a non specialist calling herself a "liver doc" who is not licensed to practice....

    this would make "real" professionals jealous why again??

    her webpicture is so unprofessional as to be an insult to those who ARE professional...

    Quoted message said:

    This blows away their credibility of arguments.

    say again?? hawki.....

  5. "Mark Probert-March 4, 2004" <Mark [email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    "rb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    This lady does seem to me to have the highest credentials despite the "anti-alt posting" paid
    lackeys here on this newsgroup.

    Hello, again, rubber brain.

    Can you post some proof that some people get paid? If so, please let me know where to sign up.

    I imagine getting paid for doing what is so otherwise enjoyable.

    I get paid for practicing real medicine. I don't get paid for posting to MHA, but I feel that I get
    intangible benefits out of that particular pursuit:

    1) I have the opportunity to educate and debate,
    2) I get to poke my thumb in the eye of people who just annoy the [censored] out of me.

    RB might like to tackle this question: Just where did "Dr." Cabot get her medical degree, since the
    University of South Australia (her supposed alma mater) doesn't even offer one?

    Mark, MD (a real doctor, with a real medical degree and real board certification)

  6. "Gymmy Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    They are all jealous and have to discredit her because she is a top


    medical

    Quoted message said:

    person turned to the real medical truth method. This blows away their credibility of arguments.


    ============================
    Excuse me, but if the stated University doesn't give such a degree, she is lying. If she is lying
    about her degree what else may she be lying about?

    Kim

  7. On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 23:11:31 -0600, "Kim" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:


    "Gymmy Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    They are all jealous and have to discredit her because she is a top


    medical

    Quoted message said:

    person turned to the real medical truth method. This blows away their credibility of arguments.


    ============================
    Excuse me, but if the stated University doesn't give such a degree, she is lying. If she is lying
    about her degree what else may she be lying about?

    You don't understand Kim. Alternative practitioners are allowed to
    lie. CAbot could say she is an MD. Hulda Clark can say she has the cure for all cancers.

    But you are quite correct that her credibility is very suspect. That is why I try to demonstrate the
    lies of some people who post here. You cannot believe those who repeatedly lie. And the liars don't
    care about other liars as long as the lies advance their agenda.

    Aloha,

    rich

    Quoted message said:


    Kim

    -------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------------

    The best defense to logic is ignorance

  8. Gymmy, that lady is top flight in every way and they know it. but what can we expect of them? They
    are paid to do this(debunk non conventional medicine). Paid shills.....that's what they are.

    "Gymmy Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    They are all jealous and have to discredit her because she is a top


    medical

    Quoted message said:

    person turned to the real medical truth method. This blows away their credibility of arguments.

    "rb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    This lady does seem to me to have the highest credentials despite the "anti-alt posting" paid
    lackeys here on this newsgroup.

    whas.com.aupanscandal.php

    The PAN Scandal, It's time for a Vitamin Debate on National Television From Dr Sandra Cabot

    Since the Pan Labs scandal has grabbed the headlines I have watched as


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Complementary Health Care industry has been used as the scapegoat for corporate greed and
    dishonesty.

    I would like to have my say as a medical doctor who has been researching


    and

    Quoted message said:

    using nutritional medicine for thirty years. I have had my share of criticism as the author of
    the best selling book "The Liver Cleansing


    Diet"

    Quoted message said:

    but I always believed that healthy debate and disagreement was good for stimulating lateral
    thought and forging public opinion. However I must


    say

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    that the way in which the whole ideology of the complementary health


    care

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    industry has been targeted in the wake of the Pan debacle is simply not cricket!

    Experts in the field of nutritional medicine have not been given a say,


    or

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    really even "a look in" to the defamatory game. The headlines and


    editorial

    Quoted message said:

    have been monopolized by business people, stuffy Professors of


    conventional

    Quoted message said:

    medicine, politicians and consumer watchdogs.

    I watched Dr Ian Brighthope who is president of the Complementary Health Care Council and
    Professor Alistair MacLennan giving their opinions on National morning television and thought to
    myself "wow this is unfair!"


    Dr

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Ian Brighthope was interviewed first and was very nice, as he tried to defend the value of
    nutritional medicine and supplements. Unfortunately


    he

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    was interviewed first and did not realise that his opponent had saved


    all

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    his venom for the last say. Professor MacLennan contends that


    alternative

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    medicine has the potential to cause serious harm. MacLennan said that


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Pan affair "has given an opportunity for people to say - we're not


    really

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    having to debate how much snake is in the snake oil, or whether there is goanna contaminating
    the snake oil. We are really having to debate -


    should

    Quoted message said:

    you be on snake oil at all? ; and is this snake oil doing you any good,


    or,

    Quoted message said:

    more of a worry, is this snake oil doing you harm?"

    I think MacLennan's comments are ridiculously irrelevant, as what does


    snake

    Quoted message said:

    oil have to do with the sub-standard manufacture of an anti-histamine


    drug.

    Quoted message said:

    Well it seems that fanatics will take any opportunity to get on their


    hobby

    Quoted message said:

    horse. MacLennan is a Professor of Obstetrics and Gynaecology and has probably not been
    challenged with trying to help chronically ill people


    who

    Quoted message said:

    have been disappointed with drug orientated medicine. Perhaps he should


    keep

    Quoted message said:

    his know all opinion to the parts of the anatomy in which he is an


    expert.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    John Dwyer's attempts to discredit my Liver Cleansing Diet Book


    unwittingly

    Quoted message said:

    helped make my book very famous.

    Of course there would be no show without Professor John Dwyer who has consistently rubbished
    complementary medicine for many years, and has


    called

    Quoted message said:

    the practice of nutritional medicine anti-science, dangerous and


    misleading.

    Quoted message said:

    John Dwyer's attempts to discredit my Liver Cleansing Diet Book


    unwittingly

    Quoted message said:

    helped make my book very famous. He would usually wait till I was


    overseas

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    to start the anti-Dr Cabot campaign and when I called for a debate, he


    was

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    no where to be seen.

    Now I was surprised when Bob Carr had his say. Carr thinks the Pan


    affair

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    has given opportunity to assess "some of the exploitation of gullible
    people" that took place under the guise of alternative therapy and
    complementary medicine, suggesting some therapies were not much better


    than

    Quoted message said:

    those sold by the medicine-man hucksters of the 19th century". He


    inferred

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    that we have more snake oil sales men now, than we did in the medieval


    ages!

    Quoted message said:

    Well Bob have you been challenged with thousands of unwell people who


    have

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    found that conventional drugs made them sicker? Where is your experience


    and

    Quoted message said:

    scientific background that enable you to be an expert on the ethical and scientific standards of
    Complementary Medicine?

    The Australian Consumer Association was represented in the scandal by


    Mr.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Martyn Goddard. Mr. Goddard must have a lot of experience in clinical medicine as he seems to
    believe that he must protect the people from the charlatans and sales men who are trying to sell
    them unproven remedies


    that

    Quoted message said:

    are akin to snake oil.

    Wow we have so much snake oil around these days perhaps we should do a clinical trial on it - it
    just may have the healthy essential fatty


    acids

    Quoted message said:

    to

    Quoted message said:

    boost your brain power. Goddard states that complementary medicines


    should

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    not be released onto the market unless they have undergone the same


    rigorous

    Quoted message said:

    scientific scrutiny that is applied to new drugs to prove that they are


    safe

    Quoted message said:

    and effective. Well it would have been good if clinical trials and tests


    had

    Quoted message said:

    detected the toxicity of the cholesterol lowering drug called Lipobay


    before

    Quoted message said:

    its release into a market of unsuspecting guinea pigs. Lipobay was


    subject

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    to a world-wide withdrawal (except for Japan), because it caused a spate


    of

    Quoted message said:

    serious muscle diseases that resulted in death in a significant number


    of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    people who were taking it.

    And then there is the drug called Rezeulin that was released onto the


    market

    Quoted message said:

    several years ago, as a new treatment for diabetics. Pity that it caused acute liver breakdown
    and death in so many people, that adverts were


    posted

    Quoted message said:

    in all American newspapers to tell consumers to stop taking it


    immediately.

    Quoted message said:

    Yes it would be nice if drug companies had tests and trials that were infallible that could be
    used for drugs and nutritional supplements.

    And then you must remember the HRT scandal that achieved media notoriety


    in

    Quoted message said:

    July 2002 and created a bomb shell in conventional medicine. This was because the American
    Women's Health Initiative (WHI) Study found that


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    advice doctors and drug companies had been giving women for 20 years


    about

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    HRT was no longer strictly correct. In contrast to what women had been promised, conventional
    HRT did not protect them from cardiovascular


    disease,

    Quoted message said:

    and indeed increased the risk of heart attacks, strokes and blood clots.


    Yes

    Quoted message said:

    it was a surprise to see how quickly over 20 years of clinical research


    by

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    drug companies could be turned on its head. The legal fraternity is now cautioning doctors to
    get their patients to sign consent forms, which


    detail

    Quoted message said:

    the dangers of HRT before they can receive a prescription. It seems that nothing is perfectly
    safe to take any more!

    So now we have a "squeaky clean" pharmaceutical and medical industry


    calling

    Quoted message said:

    the supporters of nutritional medicine snake oil salesmen - well it's


    hardly

    Quoted message said:

    cricket! I think its time for a decent match of rugby league football


    where

    Quoted message said:

    the brave opponents can have a good fight. It's time for a real rough


    game -

    Quoted message said:

    cricket is just too nice!

    Now who should be on the opposing teams?
    1. Professors and medical doctors who do not approve of the use of supplements
    2. Medical doctors and professors who have been using nutritional


    medicine

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    for years Yes it could be the fossils versus the snakes - it would be heated, passionate, and
    venomous and it would be fun - we know Australians are a sporting nation, so let the public
    decide.

    Facts to discuss The Pan debacle arose because of the substandard manufacturing of a "Travacalm"
    drug (anti-histamine) and not a nutritional supplement.

    Why was the substandard manufacturing of an anti-histamine drug used as weapon against the
    whole ideology of nutritional & herbal medicine?

    People die regularly because of side effects from drugs and rarely (if ever) from nutritional &
    herbal supplements.

    Contrary to what the opponents say about the validity of nutritional


    and

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    herbal medicine, there is a huge volume & data base of clinical research into the efficacy of
    these substances.

    Corporate greed and dishonesty should not be able to use complementary medicine as a scapegoat
    for its sins.

    Many small businesses may become bankrupt because the whole CHC


    industry

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    has been tarred with the same brush as Pan labs - there are many good Australian manufacturers
    of nutritional supplements that cannot be


    compared

    Quoted message said:

    to Pan. Why should the small players (retailers & distributors) be made


    to

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    pay for the corruption and greed of a minority? Where is corporate


    justice

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    here? -

    Company and individuals that commit offences such as insider trading,
    insolvency trading, embezzlement etc, are now being scrutinized - well


    so

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    should pill manufacturers that put peoples lives at risk.

    Medicine that is based wholly upon the use of "proven" pharmaceutical


    drugs

    Quoted message said:

    does not treat the causes of disease- it is focused on treating the


    symptoms

    Quoted message said:

    The Australian public wants nutritional medicine - they have proven this


    by

    Quoted message said:

    spending 3 to 4 times as much money on supplements, than they do on


    drugs -

    Quoted message said:

    obviously this is because they are not fully satisfied with conventional and/or drug orientated
    medicine.

    Why are more and more doctors doing courses in complementary and nutritional medicine? The
    courses offered by the Australian College of Nutritional & Environmental medicine are extremely
    popular with doctors


    who

    Quoted message said:

    are interested in learning how to prescribe nutritional supplements.

    Important Announcement Dr Sandra Cabot's Health Formulations including the LivatoneT range, are


    NOT

    Quoted message said:

    manufactured by PAN Pharmaceuticals Ltd.

    Our products are made by a TGA approved laboratory in Australia and our manufacturing facility
    operates to and maintains the highest standards.

    We are happy to reassure you that our products are of the highest


    quality.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    Dr Sandra Cabot April 28, 2003


  9. "Hawki63" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Dr. Sandra Cabot From: "Gymmy Bob" [email hidden] Date: 3/4/2004 5:57 PM Pacific
    Standard Time Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    They are all jealous and have to discredit her because she is a top


    medical

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    person turned to the real medical truth method. This blows away their credibility of arguments.

    <snipped rubbish from hawki>

    nothing left.

  10. Quoted message said:

    The best defense to logic is ignorance

    and you're the living proof of that.

  11. "Kim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Gymmy Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    They are all jealous and have to discredit her because she is a top


    medical

    Quoted message said:

    person turned to the real medical truth method. This blows away their credibility of arguments.


    ============================
    Excuse me, but if the stated University doesn't give such a degree, she is lying. If she is lying
    about her degree what else may she be lying about?

    Kim

    Kim's lying.

  12. Quoted message said:

    The best defense to logic is ignorance

    and you're the living proof of that.

  13. Kim said:


    "Gymmy Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    They are all jealous and have to discredit her because she is a top


    medical

    Quoted message said:

    person turned to the real medical truth method. This blows away their credibility of arguments.


    ============================
    Excuse me, but if the stated University doesn't give such a degree, she is lying. If she is lying
    about her degree what else may she be lying about?

    Kim

    Everything?

    One web site she says that she has MB,BS from the University of Adelaide (which has a medical
    school and grants those degrees). On another web site she says she has MB,BS from the University of
    South Australia, which has no medical school and therefore cannot grant those degrees. On the
    covers of her books (featured on one of the web sites) she calls herself "MD", a degree which she
    does not have. At the top of one of the web sites she refers to herself as "MD, a degree which she
    does not have.

    It is interesting to note that Jan has cited both web sites in the last few days.

    --
    Peter Bowditch
    The Millenium Project ratbags.comrsoles
    The Green Light ratbags.comgreenlight
    and The New Improved Quintessence of the Loon with added Vitamins and C-Q10 ratbags.comloon
    To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

  14. "Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Dr. Sandra Cabot From: [email hidden] (Mark) Date: 3/4/2004 7:56 PM Pacific
    Standard Time Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    "Mark Probert-March 4, 2004" <Mark [email hidden]>


    wrote in

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    "rb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
    > This lady does seem to me to have the highest credentials despite the "anti-alt posting" paid
    > lackeys here on this newsgroup.

    Hello, again, rubber brain.

    Can you post some proof that some people get paid? If so, please let me


    know

    Quoted message said:

    where to sign up.

    I imagine getting paid for doing what is so otherwise enjoyable.

    I get paid for practicing real medicine. I don't get paid for posting to MHA, but I feel that I
    get intangible benefits out of that particular pursuit:

    1) I have the opportunity to educate and debate,
    2) I get to poke my thumb in the eye of people who just annoy the [censored] out of me.

    That's very professional.

    And you are what?????

    Quoted message said:

    my other hobby (time-waster in a big way is more like it) is lurking


    around the

    Quoted message said:

    Internet, annoying people who engage in the dissemination of bozo-science medical advice. My
    favorites are the "NutraSweet causes brain cancer"


    folks and

    Quoted message said:

    those who would have us believe that milk causes diabetes. I could claim


    it's

    Quoted message said:

    my duty as a high-falutin' medical professional, but really it's just my natural pugnacious
    tendency."

    Quoted message said:

    RB might like to tackle this question: Just where did "Dr." Cabot get her medical degree, since
    the University of South Australia (her supposed alma mater) doesn't even offer one?

    Mark, MD (a real doctor, with a real medical degree and real board certification)

    And a real attitude.

    I prefer doctors with an attitude. I do not want a wimp...

    Quoted message said:


    Uses the word [censored]

    Which you conveneintly removed from context and thus changed its usage. How about your "Jew Boy"
    comment, which in context was the hallmark of a bigot?

    Quoted message said:

    Can't control temper.

    Neither can you! You run off whining to ISPs, email providers like Yahoo, and complain to people's
    employers.

    Quoted message said:

    Also pushs Aspartame, and denies it's adverse effects.

    OF course he dies its adverse effects, since it does not have any. I would not want a doctor who
    believed in imaginary medicine.

    snip

  15. She had no MD - that's a fact. Anth

    "Peter Bowditch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Kim said:


    "Gymmy Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    They are all jealous and have to discredit her because she is a top


    medical

    Quoted message said:

    person turned to the real medical truth method. This blows away their credibility of arguments.


    ============================
    Excuse me, but if the stated University doesn't give such a degree, she


    is

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    lying. If she is lying about her degree what else may she be lying


    about?

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    Kim

    Everything?

    One web site she says that she has MB,BS from the University of Adelaide (which has a medical
    school and grants those degrees). On another web site she says she has MB,BS from the University
    of South Australia, which has no medical school and therefore cannot grant those degrees. On the
    covers of her books (featured on one of the web sites) she calls herself "MD", a degree which she
    does not have. At the top of one of the web sites she refers to herself as "MD, a degree which she
    does not have.

    It is interesting to note that Jan has cited both web sites in the last few days.

    --
    Peter Bowditch The Millenium Project ratbags.comrsoles The Green Light
    ratbags.comgreenlight and The New Improved Quintessence of the Loon with added
    Vitamins and


    C-Q10 ratbags.comloon

    Quoted message said:

    To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

  16. <Rich.@.> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    (Jan) said:
    Quoted message said:

    Mark, MD (a real doctor, with a real medical degree and real board certification)

    And a real attitude.

    Uses the word [censored]

    Next thing you know this despicable bigot and antisemite will be contacting Mark's employer to let
    them know he used the word "[censored]".

    What makes you believe that jan has not already complained like you describe? We all know that it i
    snot beneath her to whine to employers. She has done it herslef, and condones this type of
    netstalking and harrassment when other alties and her facilitators do it.

    Quoted message said:

    Of course when Jan repeated the word she also used it. But the rules don't apply to Jan.

    Correct. Jan is above the rules of common decency.

    She can use the word with impunity. Jan is upset

    Quoted message said:

    because she is repeatedly confronted about her calling someone a Jew Boy showing her antisemitism.
    Mark did not call anyone a "[censored]" and Jan knows it. But she is so desperate to trash those who
    disagree with her POV that she will stoop to any level.

    And there are those who question whether Jan is evil. God is reading what Jan posts here. Jan
    will reap what she sows.

    I bet not a single altie will confront Jan about her attempt to discredit someone by taking a word
    he said completely out of context. And the reason no altie will confront her is because they must
    stick together.

    Agreed.

    Quoted message said:

    Cue Jan to pretend she is not reading my post and then attack me from behind her imaginary kill
    file. It is so predictable.

    If anyone responds to ANY of my posts Jan uses it as an opportunity for her cowardly attack. I
    proved that Jan lied about having mercury poisoning and there is nothing she can do to change
    that. Jan is a despicable liar who deliberately lied about having mercury poisoning because she
    does not care about anyone and who only in interested in trashing conventional medicine while
    promoting alternative medicine.

    Aloha,

    rich
    -------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------------

    The best defense to logic is ignorance

  17. <Rich.@.> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    (Jan) said:
    Quoted message said:

    Mark, MD (a real doctor, with a real medical degree and real board certification)

    And a real attitude.

    Uses the word [censored]

    Next thing you know this despicable bigot and antisemite will be contacting Mark's employer to let
    them know he used the word "[censored]".

    What makes you believe that jan has not already complained like you describe? We all know that it i
    snot beneath her to whine to employers. She has done it herslef, and condones this type of
    netstalking and harrassment when other alties and her facilitators do it.

    Quoted message said:

    Of course when Jan repeated the word she also used it. But the rules don't apply to Jan.

    Correct. Jan is above the rules of common decency.

    She can use the word with impunity. Jan is upset

    Quoted message said:

    because she is repeatedly confronted about her calling someone a Jew Boy showing her antisemitism.
    Mark did not call anyone a "[censored]" and Jan knows it. But she is so desperate to trash those who
    disagree with her POV that she will stoop to any level.

    And there are those who question whether Jan is evil. God is reading what Jan posts here. Jan
    will reap what she sows.

    I bet not a single altie will confront Jan about her attempt to discredit someone by taking a word
    he said completely out of context. And the reason no altie will confront her is because they must
    stick together.

    Agreed.

    Quoted message said:

    Cue Jan to pretend she is not reading my post and then attack me from behind her imaginary kill
    file. It is so predictable.

    If anyone responds to ANY of my posts Jan uses it as an opportunity for her cowardly attack. I
    proved that Jan lied about having mercury poisoning and there is nothing she can do to change
    that. Jan is a despicable liar who deliberately lied about having mercury poisoning because she
    does not care about anyone and who only in interested in trashing conventional medicine while
    promoting alternative medicine.

    Aloha,

    rich
    -------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------------

    The best defense to logic is ignorance

  18. "Kim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Gymmy Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    They are all jealous and have to discredit her because she is a top


    medical

    Quoted message said:

    person turned to the real medical truth method. This blows away their credibility of arguments.


    ============================
    Excuse me, but if the stated University doesn't give such a degree, she is lying. If she is lying
    about her degree what else may she be lying about?

    Exactly. If she cannot get her facts in line...then one has to question everything she says.

  19. "Kim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Gymmy Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    They are all jealous and have to discredit her because she is a top


    medical

    Quoted message said:

    person turned to the real medical truth method. This blows away their credibility of arguments.


    ============================
    Excuse me, but if the stated University doesn't give such a degree, she is lying. If she is lying
    about her degree what else may she be lying about?

    Exactly. If she cannot get her facts in line...then one has to question everything she says.

  20. "rb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Kim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Gymmy Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    They are all jealous and have to discredit her because she is a top


    medical

    Quoted message said:

    person turned to the real medical truth method. This blows away their credibility of
    arguments.


    ============================
    Excuse me, but if the stated University doesn't give such a degree, she


    is

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    lying. If she is lying about her degree what else may she be lying


    about?

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    Kim

    Kim's lying.

    Dear rubber brain:

    When I read about the desperate attempt to remove the partially developed second head of a child, I
    was so hoping that you would get the leftovers.

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