to Jan

Kim said:

<Rich.@.> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I really appreciate Toby confronting her because it is
rare for someone allied with alternative medicine to
confront another pro-alt person. This demonstrates great
integrity of Toby and willingness to tolerate the
possible consequences (see above) of criticizing Jan.
Kudos to Toby.

====================]
Has anyone ever tried to call or contact Jan's ISP and
complain about these tactics she's using? Why isn't
something done about her?

I have not complained about her behavior because it is
pointless to do so. AOL won't do anything about her
contacting my ISP. My ISP realizes that she is acting like a
raving loon so what's the point?? Fortunately she does not
know my true identity, address, phone number so I don't have
to worry about personal harassment. But that does not stop
Jan Drew from continuing to post what she thinks is my real
name. It just shows how despicable she is. She tries to
expose the true identity of many people in this newsgroup.
And she calls me a stalker. Sad that.

Aloha,

Rich

Quoted message said:

Kim

-------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------

The best defense to logic is ignorance

"Kim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

<Rich.@.> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I really appreciate Toby confronting her because it is
rare for someone allied with alternative medicine to
confront another pro-alt person. This demonstrates great
integrity of Toby and willingness to tolerate the
possible consequences (see above) of criticizing Jan.
Kudos to Toby.

====================]
Has anyone ever tried to call or contact Jan's ISP and
complain about

these

Quoted message said:

tactics she's using? Why isn't something done about her?

Kim

You mean Rich hasn't tried?

Kim said:

<Rich.@.> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I really appreciate Toby confronting her because it is
rare for someone allied with alternative medicine to
confront another pro-alt person. This demonstrates great
integrity of Toby and willingness to tolerate the
possible consequences (see above) of criticizing Jan.
Kudos to Toby.

====================]
Has anyone ever tried to call or contact Jan's ISP and
complain about these tactics she's using? Why isn't
something done about her?

One thing which seems to separate Us from Them is the
attitude towards free speech. The Us attitude is that the
only responsible way to react to unpleasantness is more
speech. The Them attitude is to try censorship and
suppression.

People can say whatever they like about me and the only time
I will ever contact an ISP is when the person pretends to be
me. I have complained, and will continue to complain, about
people who use email addresses which contain my name, and I
will complain about people who try to subscribe me to
mailing lists. As a corollary, I will not attempt to have
stuff about me removed from anywhere on the Internet.

--
Peter Bowditch
The Millenium Project ratbags.comrsolesOpen ↗
The Green Light ratbags.comgreenlightOpen ↗
and The New Improved Quintessence of the Loon with added Vitamins and C-Q10 ratbags.comloonOpen ↗
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

*Sure glad Kim doesn't wish to get involved in any
personal conflicts>

between> > the posters here. She's simply looking for
between> > answers.*

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Jan

======================
YOU dragged me into the controversy going on here.

She did not drag you into anything. You dove in head first.

Then you judged me and> bore false witness against me.

She judged you and so do I . You are a filthy liar. How's
that for judgement? Jesus did say that with what judgement
ye judge judge righteously and we have.

How kind of you. How Christian of you.

Well you are a liar. Jesus said to reprove the works of
darkness. You and your lying shameless tongue are
certainly works of darkness. Consider yourself reproved
you lying troll.

Quoted message said:

Kim

"Peter Bowditch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

<snip

Peter Bowditch said:

Kim said:

<Rich.@.> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I really appreciate Toby confronting her because it is
rare for someone allied with alternative medicine to
confront another pro-alt person. This demonstrates
great integrity of Toby and willingness to tolerate the
possible consequences (see above) of criticizing Jan.
Kudos to Toby.

====================]
Has anyone ever tried to call or contact Jan's ISP and
complain about these tactics she's using? Why isn't
something done about her?

One thing which seems to separate Us from Them is the
attitude towards free speech. The Us attitude is that the
only responsible way to react to unpleasantness is more
speech. The Them attitude is to try censorship and
suppression.

I agree.

However, it is ironical that the person who wrote that ALSO
wrote to the NSW Medical Board claiming someone, an Aussie
Medical Doctor, is selling "suspect medicines".

I think we have slightly different definitions of
"suppression".

Kim wrote:

Nice name, BTW <g>

Quoted message said:

"Kimmer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message -"]news:[email hidden]-
berlin.de...

Quoted message said:

Debbee said:

<< From: "Kim" [email hidden] >>

is this phony?

<< [email hidden]> >>

Nope...this isn't right yet...

<< NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.82.112.1 >>

Hughes Network Systems in Maryland...

<< No matter what anyone says here YOU call them a
liar. You turn

them off

Quoted message said:

before they even know what this NG is all about or get
to know

many of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the

Quoted message said:

posters. >>

Well, I am wondering what your motives really are her,
myself,

after

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

discovering this information about you...

And you've never used an invalid addy to prevent
spammers?

She/he/it is clearly threatening me and trying to
intimidate me. It's happened before.

Yeah, I kind of figured that out a long time ago. Some
people just need to get a life.

Quoted message said:

I use

Quoted message said:

several when I post. The one that shows up when you hit
'reply'

will

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

bounce right back at you.

Almost everyone who uses Usenet uses a fake e-mail
address. Or they

use an

Quoted message said:

account just for Usenet, and for the spam-bots to fill up.

Yep. I have several that I use, and none of them are legit.
Two were at one point, but both accounts are closed. I do
put a valid addy at the bottom of my posts, though.

Quoted message said:

So will another one I like to use,

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (or if it goes through it's not
to me; I

made it

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

up and never had the addy myself).

I change mine daily to fill up the boxes of the spammers.

Quoted message said:

Go ahead and accuse me of being something I'm not, too.

Quoted message said:

Kimmer

That seems to be how the alt fanatics on this NG handle
people who

question

Quoted message said:

their beliefs. You would think we ran into their church
and started

to

Quoted message said:

question or curse their God. Unbelievable.....

I'm one who does use herbs and some homeopathic remedies -
some work for me just fine, others don't - and I avoid
doctors unless I have no choice; I worked in medical offices
for 7 years, and I currently do medical transcription for a
living, so I get enough of doctors in an average day,
thankyouverymuch <g> I have immunized all of my children, as
they never had any adverse reactions to any of the vaccines
so there was no reason to not follow through. I also believe
in checking out anything recommended by anyone and not just
going along with something because someone says it works.
Some things are just snake oil, and it's a good thing to
know what's snake oil and what isn't.

Kimmer kimagreenfieldatyahoodotcom

"RB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

She judged you and so do I . You are a filthy liar. How's
that for judgement? Jesus did say that with what judgement
ye judge judge

righteously

Quoted message said:

and we have.

========================
Thank you. People like YOU are the reason we have so
many atheists and agnostics these days. Try and figure
THAT on out. :-)

Kim

X-No-Archive: yes

"Peter Bowditch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My point was that even a torrent of abuse like the
rantings and threats of Mr O'Neill cannot silence someone
who does not want to be silenced. I decided to publish
everything that this moron sent to me or said about me as
an example to other people of how easy it was going to be
to get rid of me. This is also the thinking behind my
"vacuous legal threats" page at

==============================
I'm so sorry to hear about your problems Mr. Bowditch. I
suppose this is a chance people take when they use the
Internet. Fortunately as a retired person they can't do
much to me. The Det who helped with the last mentally ill
"stalker," and I use that term for lack of a better one,
was a great help. It's a shame such evil spiteful people
get away with such shameful behavior, but that's how the
world is.....

Kim

<Rich.@.> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have not complained about her behavior because it is
pointless to do so. AOL won't do anything about her
contacting my ISP.

I was talking about her abusive posts re' Jewish people,
advertising for Ms. Clark etc.

My ISP realizes

Quoted message said:

that she is acting like a raving loon so what's the
point??

Well as long as you know you wont lose your service then who
would care? I'm pretty sure my ISP would simply tell her to
use her killfile as most ISPs do these days. That's pretty
much what the stalkers were told. They didn't get far. They
don't want to get the reputation that they CENSOR their
subscribers.

Quoted message said:

Fortunately she does not know my true identity, address,
phone number so I don't have to worry about personal
harassment. But that does not stop Jan Drew from
continuing to post what she thinks is my real name.

You can't stop fanatics.

Quoted message said:

It just shows how despicable she is. She tries to expose
the true identity of many people in this newsgroup. And
she calls me a stalker. Sad that.

I agree.

Kim

"RB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

We believe that Jesus is God and as such inhabits
eternity(and is omniscient) although I personally believe
his point of origin as God was when he was conceived in
the Virgin Mary's womb. He that inhabits eternity lives
in all the past, present and future of eternity so of
course Jesus

was

Quoted message said:

there when God wrote the ten commandments. Jesus was also
there when God created man as evidenced by "and God said,
let us create man in our

image"!

Quoted message said:

He said US and OUR!

=====================
This is completely off-topic and belongs on the
religious NGs.
--
Kim Please note, I don't wish to get involved in any
personal conflicts between the posters here. I'm simply
looking for answers.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Kimmer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Kim wrote:

Nice name, BTW <g>

Thank you. :o)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

She/he/it is clearly threatening me and trying to
intimidate me. It's happened before.

Quoted message said:

Yeah, I kind of figured that out a long time ago. Some
people just need to get a life.

She FEARS people like myself who both believe in alt meds,
and in exposing those who are mere scammers taking advantage
the gullible, the desperate and the foolish. You can be sure
she's got her hands in the alt money pie somewhere.

Quoted message said:

Yep. I have several that I use, and none of them are
legit. Two were at one point, but both accounts are
closed. I do put a valid addy at the bottom of my
posts, though.

I will not do that because that's how stalker #1 got mine,
then started to send me endless insane e-mails. She
contacted my ISP trying to get my service pulled (she
failed). It was truly frightening as the young woman was
obviously mentally ill and totally obsessed. The University
she was posting from took away her Internet privileges - I
never heard from her again. That was back in 1996. The
other was an older man and much more recent. I feel he's
still a problem and so protect my privacy as much as
possible. He's recently shown up on a Health Board we both
used to post on......

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

That seems to be how the alt fanatics on this NG handle
people who

question

Quoted message said:

their beliefs. You would think we ran into their church
and started

to

Quoted message said:

question or curse their God. Unbelievable.....

Quoted message said:

I'm one who does use herbs and some homeopathic remedies -
some work for me just fine, others don't - and I avoid
doctors unless I have no choice;

Me too! I have to see a medical Dr. once a year for blood
work (thyroid/ERT). My Ins covers all the expenses so I'll
live with it. There are no alt meds for these conditions.
Black kohosh was useless for the hot flashes. Those are the
only meds I'm on and have no choice.

I worked in medical offices for 7 years, and I currently do

Quoted message said:

medical transcription for a living, so I get enough of
doctors in an average day, thankyouverymuch <g> I have
immunized all of my children, as they never had any
adverse reactions to any of the vaccines so there was no
reason to not follow through.

Great! No problems in our family with vaccinations either.

I also believe in checking out

Quoted message said:

anything recommended by anyone and not just going along
with something because someone says it works. Some things
are just snake oil, and it's a good thing to know what's
snake oil and what isn't.

AMEN!!!! There is too much snake-oil and too many quacks out
there pushing useless treatments on trusting people. It even
goes on here in the rural areas. The people are less
educated and less sophisticated and so prime targets for the
scammers and their remedies.

Quoted message said:

Kimmer kimagreenfieldatyahoodotcom

--
Kim Please note, I don't wish to get involved in any
personal conflicts between the posters here. I'm simply
looking for answers.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Quoted message said:

Peter Bowditch said:

Kim said:

<Rich.@.> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
> I really appreciate Toby confronting her because it is
> rare for someone allied with alternative medicine to
> confront another pro-alt person. This demonstrates
> great integrity of Toby and willingness to tolerate
> the possible consequences (see above) of criticizing
> Jan. Kudos to Toby.
====================]
Has anyone ever tried to call or contact Jan's ISP and
complain about these tactics she's using? Why isn't
something done about her?

One thing which seems to separate Us from Them is the
attitude towards free speech. The Us attitude is that the
only responsible way to react to unpleasantness is more
speech. The Them attitude is to try censorship and
suppression.

I agree.

However, it is ironical that the person who wrote that ALSO
wrote to the NSW Medical Board claiming someone, an Aussie
Medical Doctor, is selling "suspect medicines".

I think we have slightly different definitions of
"suppression".

And I mentioned this doctor's name? It's funny, but that
particular doctor (who lies about her qualifications) is
free to say whatever she likes as far as I am concerned.
She can call me any names she wants to and use any form or
language. She can even tell lies about her qualifications.
All I want is the right of free speech in return so that I
can point out her lies. She may decide to sue me for
defamation to shut me up, but it would be even better if
she just retracted her lies and apologised to the people
she has lied to.

--
Peter Bowditch
The Millenium Project ratbags.comrsolesOpen ↗
The Green Light ratbags.comgreenlightOpen ↗
and The New Improved Quintessence of the Loon with added Vitamins and C-Q10 ratbags.comloonOpen ↗
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

"Peter Bowditch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Peter Bowditch said:

"Kim" <[email hidden]> wrote:

>
><Rich.@.> wrote in message
>"]news:[email hidden]...
>> I really appreciate Toby confronting her because it
>> is rare for someone allied with alternative medicine
>> to confront another pro-alt person. This
>> demonstrates great integrity of Toby and willingness
>> to tolerate the possible consequences (see above) of
>> criticizing Jan. Kudos to Toby.
>====================]
>Has anyone ever tried to call or contact Jan's ISP and
>complain about these tactics she's using? Why isn't
>something done about her?

One thing which seems to separate Us from Them is the
attitude towards free speech. The Us attitude is that
the only responsible way to react to unpleasantness is
more speech. The Them attitude is to try censorship and
suppression.

I agree.

However, it is ironical that the person who wrote that
ALSO wrote to the NSW Medical Board claiming someone, an
Aussie Medical Doctor, is selling "suspect medicines".

I think we have slightly different definitions of
"suppression".

And I mentioned this doctor's name? It's funny, but that
particular doctor (who lies about her qualifications) is
free to say whatever she likes as far as I am concerned.
She can call me any names she wants to and use any form or
language. She can even tell lies about her qualifications.
All I want is the right of free speech in return so that I
can point out her lies. She may decide to sue me for
defamation to shut me up, but it would be even better if
she just retracted her lies and apologised to the people
she has lied to.

Is this sort of like Mark Thorson MD, with his retraction ?

Cheers, Rod.

Quoted message said:

--
Peter Bowditch (snip the spam)

She rarely backs up her claims (unless you believe that her
flight-of-ideas diatribes count).

She routinely accuses those with differing views of being
"liars" without any evidence that a third party would accept
as valid, much less sensible.

She has a REAL problem with Jews...regardless of their
opinions.

She cannot (or will not) actually read dissenting opinions
from authoritative sources.

...I have real concerns as to whether she CAN be trusted.
I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt, but so
far, she's *way* in the hole.

Mark, MD

She rarely backs up her claims (unless you believe that her
flight-of-ideas diatribes count).

She routinely accuses those with differing views of being
"liars" without any evidence that a third party would accept
as valid, much less sensible.

She has a REAL problem with Jews...regardless of their
opinions.

She cannot (or will not) actually read dissenting opinions
from authoritative sources.

...I have real concerns as to whether she CAN be trusted.
I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt, but so
far, she's *way* in the hole.

Mark, MD