General fitness, health and nutrition · Public discussion

to Jan

Started by Kim · · Last activity · 96 posts · 3,121 views

Thread navigation

Jump through the discussion

Go to the original post, the replies on this page, or the latest preserved contribution.

Thread details

What we know about this thread

Original section
General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
11 March 2004
Last activity
13 March 2004
Original author
Kim
Posts
96
Discussion status
Public discussion
Total views
3,121
Views / 30 days
0

The navigation and discussion metadata provide context. Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Showing posts 61–80 of 96
Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Text size
  1. Well you just convince me you are a troll here.

    I tried and you trolled.

    <PLONK>

    "Kim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:r8-dncpjhoSPs8zdRVn-
    [email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20040311211248.19517.00001296@mb-
    m16.aol.com...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: to Jan From: "Kim" [email hidden]

    Jan, the constant bickering and accusations of who is
    an isn't lying is


    what

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    will drive most people away from this NG


    =====================================

    Quoted message said:

    Wrong, the lying has gone on for years.

    WHAT LIES? Concerning what and who? Just you and the few
    other's here? I'm sure 99.99% of new people here don't
    care what transpired between you and them in the past.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    When people stop in or come here for information I
    think their questions should be answered

    Quoted message said:

    You aren't fooling anyone, Rich has tried ever since I
    quit replying to


    him to

    Quoted message said:

    get it all going again. He is obsessed, it is clear.

    Get WHAT all going again? Why would newbies here care?
    Can't you understand what I'm saying? IGNORE others you
    don't agree with and move on..... there is so much to
    discuss in the field of health. Or if you


    find

    Quoted message said:

    you cannot ignore them then answer their questions as
    honestly as you can (providing proof if you have it) and
    move on. As for your fillings and your parasite problems
    - post copies of the lab reports for us all to see. Why
    is that so impossible when everyone has a scanner today?
    You can buy


    a

    Quoted message said:

    decent scanner for under $50 when on sale.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Stop what? What is it exactly YOU want stopped?

    L Y I N G

    WHAT LYING?

    Quoted message said:

    Stoppwith the excuses, you lied, period.

    What lie? You mean asking questions is lying? I never said
    I would NOT ask questions here or give my opinion on what
    I read here. Don't misread what suits your agenda into my
    posts. It makes you look foolish and dishonest. It appears
    you have some serious issues Jan.

    Quoted message said:

    Jan

    Kim

  2. OK...you are just garbage

    <PLONK>

    "Kimmer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message -"]news:[email hidden]-
    berlin.de...

    Quoted message said:
    Debbee said:

    << From: "Kim" [email hidden] >>

    is this phony?

    << [email hidden]> >>

    Nope...this isn't right yet...

    << NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.82.112.1 >>

    Hughes Network Systems in Maryland...

    << No matter what anyone says here YOU call them a liar.
    You turn


    them off

    Quoted message said:

    before they even know what this NG is all about or get
    to know many of


    the

    Quoted message said:

    posters. >>

    Well, I am wondering what your motives really are her,
    myself, after discovering this information about you...

    And you've never used an invalid addy to prevent spammers?
    I use several when I post. The one that shows up when you
    hit 'reply' will bounce right back at you. So will another
    one I like to use, [email hidden] (or if it goes
    through it's not to me; I made it up and never had the
    addy myself).

    Go ahead and accuse me of being something I'm not, too.

    Kimmer

  3. "UTTER THREAT" is a criminal charge punishable by
    imprisonment in Canada for up to five years.

    And NO you are never, ever anonymous on the internet, no
    mattr what the ISPs or news providers tell you. When the
    cops lay down the warrant, they open the books or shut down
    and go to jail for obstructing justice.

    Been there, done that.

    "Kim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:kbadnTAyUqZXZMzdRVn-
    [email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    X-No-Archive: yes

    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Kim said:

    But no one can stop you from posting here.

    Are you sure about that? They can at least make the
    price so high in real life terms that it is beyond the
    means of many. For example, contacting someone's
    employer? (So someone said recently) That would be a
    deterrent to many.

    Yes it would - but it's my understanding your employer has
    nothing to say about what you do on or with your own
    computer in the privacy of your own home. What you do on
    THEIR computer during working hours is another


    matter.

    Quoted message said:

    Since I'm retired she can't do much about what I do
    on my PC.

    Quoted message said:

    Threats to contact someone's family? (If it became
    obvious that someone would act in that way, this would
    necessarily deter many.) Revealing personal information
    about the poster, their family, their occupation or
    other, or even threatening to do so while making it
    clear they would follow through, would deter some, in
    particular if others


    could

    Quoted message said:

    thereby be endangered.

    This is BLACKMAIL!

    Quoted message said:

    Having people's email accounts closed may not stop
    everyone, but in some cases it can cause serious
    difficulties.

    Any ISP who would close an account because of what you
    post here doesn't deserve your business. I know that's a
    radical point of view but it's


    very

    Quoted message said:

    true. We don't need censorship and few ISPs want to get
    into censoring their customers. Spamming is abuse and
    another matter altogether. If anyone is threatened by
    another poster they should keep all copies with headers.
    First send them to the offender's ISP and then go from
    there if they do not co-operate.

    Quoted message said:

    Repeated references made to posters' race or ethnicity,
    religion, marital status, gender and orientation,
    occupation and other such personal details, particularly
    when accompanied by derogation, would effectively drive
    away some people.

    Do you really believe that "No one can stop you posting
    here"?

    I suppose some people will be intimidated. Not everyone is
    easily intimidated though. Not everyone has things they
    don't want made public. Not everyone posts from their
    place of employment. Most people can have their old posts
    removed from Google and other places that store them.


    They

    Quoted message said:

    can "mung" their address as I do. People shouldn't mention
    where they


    work,

    Quoted message said:

    worked or where they lived or now live. And it's totally
    crazy to post


    your

    Quoted message said:

    real name or e-mail address here on the Internet. There
    are too many crack-pots out there looking for people to
    victimize. I know, I already


    ran

    Quoted message said:

    into two of them.

    Kim

  4. Rich.@. said:

    I really appreciate Toby confronting her because it is rare
    for someone allied with alternative medicine to confront
    another pro-alt person.

    I confront her on the amalgam story. I am contra amalgam...

    And do not forget : More about the naturopath mafia
    advertizing agency Jan Drew one can read here :

    geocities.comQuackery.html

    Update is being readied...

    Regards,

    Aribert Deckers
    --
    Reklame mit wahrheitswidrigen Behauptungen

    ariplex.comama wies.htm

  5. (Jan) said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: to Jan From: Peter Bowditch
    [email hidden] Date: 3/12/2004 4:12 AM Pacific
    Standard Time Message-id:
    <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jan"
    <[email hidden]> Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
    Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 1:12 PM Subject: Re: to Jan

    > >Subject: to Jan From: "Kim" [email hidden] Date:
    > >3/11/2004 3:27 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id:
    > ><[email hidden]>

    [snip]
    > > *Please note, I don't wish to get involved in any
    > > personal conflicts
    > >> between the posters here. I'm simply looking for
    > >> answers.*
    >
    > >Stop what? What is it exactly YOU want stopped?
    >
    > L Y I N G

    Then stop.

    For example,

    "I have never snipped to change the meaning. I don't play
    nonsense games, rather I am straight forward."

    Oh, Toby, you are in deep [censored] now. I hope you're not
    an atheist

    Pay particular attention to the quote above. Notice how it
    can easily be interpreted to mean that I have some personal
    problem with any or

    Quoted message said:

    How wrong you are, it matters not what he is. However the
    Jews, atheists Australian Jew (that's news to me) do tell a
    lot of lies here as well as deceiving.

    Notice how Jan pretended to be dumb again. I can only assume
    from her reply that she has heard of Jews who are either
    atheists, Catholics or

    stream.

    Quoted message said:

    As for Catholics, I have never mentioned them, so you are
    lying again.

    I believe that Jan has expressed the opinion in the past
    that people who pray to saints for intercession with God are
    sinning and heading straight for Hell. Who are these people
    who pray to saints for intercession? Jan will now accuse me
    of lying because I cannot find anywhere where she has ever
    used the word "intercession".

    And I have posted God's word about what to do with
    disobedient children. Jan's daycare centre must have been a
    place of terror, although most kids would have learnt not to
    answer back after the first time they saw a child being
    stoned to death for it.

    Quoted message said:

    I have NOT lied, I have NEVER snipped any post to change
    it's meaning.

    I asked above that you remember what Jan quoted out of what
    I wrote, but just to save a PageUp or two, what she quoted
    me as saying was: "I

    did say this, but the full sentence read: "I hope
    you're not an

    of going over to the good side of the Force".

    Removing context changes meaning. Jan pretends not to
    understand this.

    Quoted message said:

    We see others snip to the point they are making (without
    mentioning it, BTW) and nobody thinks a thing of it. This
    lie was started by YOU because you are desperate.

    Sad that Toby believes it.

    I warned Toby. Now let the games begin.

    --
    Peter Bowditch
    The Millenium Project ratbags.comrsoles
    The Green Light ratbags.comgreenlight
    and The New Improved Quintessence of the Loon with added Vitamins and C-Q10 ratbags.comloon
    To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

  6. (Jan) said:

    Sorry you have fallen for this lie from the *gang*.

    TING

    --
    Peter Bowditch
    The Millenium Project ratbags.comrsoles
    The Green Light ratbags.comgreenlight
    and The New Improved Quintessence of the Loon with added Vitamins and C-Q10 ratbags.comloon
    To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

  7. X-No-Archive: yes

    "Peter Bowditch" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message > >

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    Do you really believe that "No one can stop you
    posting here"?

    Have a look at ratbags.comonews and
    ratbags.comgal.htm

    Nobody can stop you posting here.


    =======================================
    Let me say this. I looked at the sites briefly. This type of
    thing goes on all over Usenet. When you get a screwball
    sending you e-mail you can just killfile them - it's like
    hanging up on a freak re' the phone. And know this - if
    those who write viruses and worms can be "traced" even with
    anonymous re-mailers ANYONE can be traced to their ISP or
    point of origin. The ISP must then turn over the the guilty
    persons information.

    Why are people using their REAL names here on Usenet?
    Even a business website can have a "munged" name for
    safety and privacy. This is just inviting the weirdoes to
    harass others.

    I will also say this. Since I'm retired I have no co-workers
    or superior to be concerned about. I post from the privacy
    of my own home and from my own personal computer. My ISP
    does not believe in censorship and if things change in that
    area I would simply get a new ISP. Inconvenient? Yes, but I
    would do it since I believe in freedom of speech. There are
    so many ISPs out there now, all competing for our business -
    few will censor you.

    Kim

  8. <Rich.@.> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    RB said:

    You were right Jan. There's Rich already.

    And I will continue to debunk her [censored] claims. Deal
    with it.

    It is noted that all you do is attack me and defend Jan
    Drew. I posted my opinion that Jan did not have mercury
    poisoning by amalgams. I used Jan's own words and her
    history and presented by her to support my opinion. To
    this point not a single person has been able to refute my
    opinion. ONly attacks. Sad that.

    Thanx for including my entire post below explaining my
    reasoning.

    Does anybody read that drivel more than once?

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    <Rich.@.> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On 12 Mar 2004 04:41:42 GMT, [email hidden] (Jan)
    wrote:

    >*IF* you have an unanswered health
    >problem,,,,,,,,CHECK THE TEETH!
    >
    >NOT by a mainstream dentist, but an Alt. dentist who
    >KNOWS the dangers


    of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    metal

    Quoted message said:

    >in the mouth and root canals, and follows correct
    >protocol.
    >
    >I did, it saved my life.

    The power of the mind to cause dis-ease is legendary.
    The power of the mind to reverse dis-ease and create a
    sense of well being is equally legendary.

    With the above words as introduction I present what I
    believe is overwhelming evidence that Jan Drew's
    deterioration in health with respect to her peripheral
    neuropathy was directly related to her reading Hulda
    Clark's books and had absolutely NOTHING to do with
    mercury poisoning. Note clearly that I am not claiming
    that amalgams cannot cause mercury poisoning. I AM
    asserting that this clearly was NOT the case with Jan
    Drew as she repeatedly claims.

    But I will allow Jan Drew to tell you in her own
    words:

    On March 4, 1999 Jan Drew made the following post to
    usenet (my comments will follow the complete QUOTED
    VERBATIM post):

    >I have layered problems. Peripheral neuropathy,
    >parasites, my immune


    system is

    Quoted message said:

    >very weak, a antioxidant disfunction, system is low in
    >glutamine,


    insitol,

    Quoted message said:

    >glucose-insulin interaction, fructose intolerance and
    >the list goes


    on.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    At age

    Quoted message said:

    >43 I started having headaches and had one everyday all
    >day for 12


    years.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I was

    Quoted message said:

    >a patient at Diamond Headache Clinic for 15 years, if
    >took them 10


    years

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    to

    Quoted message said:

    >find what drug helped me. The list of drugs I tried
    >was 2 pages long.


    I

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    believe

    Quoted message said:

    >all those meds made my system toxic, then the
    >parasites(they love


    toxins)

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    next

    Quoted message said:

    >to go was my digestion, bowel problems. I hate to take
    >all this space


    telling

    Quoted message said:

    >you all I have tried. I had not seen or heard of Hulda
    >for years,


    didn't

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    know

    Quoted message said:

    >she had written any books. When I became aware of
    >that, I read them. I


    can

    Quoted message said:

    >understand why people are doubtful, and I am not sure
    >I agree with all


    she

    Quoted message said:

    >says, but I do know that the zapper , the kidney
    >cleanse (which took


    away

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    all

    Quoted message said:

    >the burning & stinging-terrible pain in my feet) & the
    >liver cleanse


    works. I

    Quoted message said:

    >used Now products for the parasites before I learned
    >that Hulda had


    her

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    own

    Quoted message said:

    >products. They helped me, but I didn't pass any large
    >ones until I


    started on

    Quoted message said:

    >Hulda's products. I had doctored with her in the past
    >with good


    results,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    thus

    Quoted message said:

    >my confidence was already established. I truly believe
    >the parasites


    are

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the

    Quoted message said:

    >reason for all the problems. My brother is a foot
    >doctor, he also


    believes

    Quoted message said:

    >they are. My experience with MD's was not good. I
    >finally had more


    test

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    done at

    Quoted message said:

    >the Florida Institute of Health (alternative) they did
    >more in one day


    than the

    Quoted message said:

    >MD's had learned in 2 years.
    >
    >I hope you can now understand why AF, HD, and Yarrow
    >have really upset


    me. I am

    Quoted message said:

    >happy for them if they have found relief, but are so
    >close minded


    about

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    any

    Quoted message said:

    >opinion other than their own, and the name calling and
    >hate words


    displayed are

    Quoted message said:

    >completely absurd.
    >
    >Jan

    Comments:

    There are a number of noteworthy observations to make:

    1) Notice that Jan expresses the belief that ALL of her
    problems are due to parasites (I wonder where she
    got THAT idea).

    2) Notice that Jan believed that the cleanses got rid
    of the parasites that she believed were causing ALL
    the problems.

    3) Notice especially how Jan reports that following the
    cleanse that the burning, stinging pain went away
    COMPLETELY.

    4) Notice the absence of ANY discussion about mercury
    poisoning, amalgams, etc. (This is because she had
    not yet read about it in Hulda's books..... she only
    got to the parasite section at this point)

    5) Notice the absence of Jan believing that her health
    was rapidly deteriorating and that she was close to
    death. In fact just the opposite was true on March
    4, 1999; Jan believed that she was regaining her
    health because the cleanse had gotten rid of the
    parasites. And it was Hulda's special cleanse that
    REALLY did the trick in her mind.

    Now this was Jan's state of mind on March 4, 1999

    On June 16, 1999 about three and a half months later
    Jan reported that her health had been rapidly
    deteriorating for MONTHS, that she could not go line
    dancing due to the excruciating pain, and that she was
    convinced that she had mercury poisoning secondary to
    amalgams and was close to death.

    What a dramatic deterioration in her health!!!!!!!!!!!!

    On March 4. 1999 she felt pretty good. On June 16,
    1999 she thought she was dying. That is not even four
    months later!!!!

    Now what caused this rapid decline in her health???

    Days or weeks after making the March 4th post Jan read
    about the amalgam, mercury, PN connection in one of
    Hulda Clark's books. The more she read, the more
    convinced she became that her amalgams were leeching
    mercury which caused her PN. And the more she believed
    it, the more concerned she became. Anxiety, depression,
    obsessive worrying then likely caused an exacerbation
    of her symptoms of PN to the point where she thought
    she was going to die. You see Jan was already
    completely convinced that Hulda was right about the
    parasites. It did not take much to convince her that
    Hulda was right about the amalgams too.

    And then June 17, 1999 she had some amalgams removed.

    On June 17, 1999 Jan posted to usenet:

    >>I have peripheral neuropathy, and have been searching
    >>for a cause for


    over a

    Quoted message said:

    >>year. I have read Hulda Clark's books where she
    >>mentions the mercury


    problem. I

    Quoted message said:

    >>am only 35 miles from the dentist who sh is speaking
    >>with in her


    book.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Dr.

    Quoted message said:

    >>Frank Jerome, who has written "Tooth Truth", a very
    >>enlightening


    book. I

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    had my

    Quoted message said:

    >>first appointment today and 1/4 of my mouth is now
    >>mercury free. I go


    back

    Quoted message said:

    >>tomorrow to get another 1/4 done. Later, I will get
    >>my only root


    canal

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    pulled.

    Quoted message said:

    >>I truly beleive this is the cause of my problems. If
    >>you have a


    condition that

    Quoted message said:

    >>the doctors can't find, it is wise to suspect the
    >>teeth.
    >>
    >>Thanks Again,
    >>
    >>Jan

    On June 18, 1999 she had some more removed and on that
    same day reports that she felt better than she had in
    two years!!

    Here are her exact words posted on June 18th, 1999 to
    usenet
    >
    >>I have been reading this thread. I have peripheral
    >>neuropathy. I have


    found a

    Quoted message said:

    >>dentist (alternative) who knows that mercury amalgams
    >>are very


    dangerous. They

    Quoted message said:

    >>can cause all manner of things. He will remove them
    >>and put in


    composities. I

    Quoted message said:

    >>have just had 3/4 of mine remover. The others will
    >>come out in a few


    weeks,

    Quoted message said:

    >>along with the one root canal, which will be
    >>extracted. If an individual has read on this subject
    >>and is knowledgable, he


    will

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    take

    Quoted message said:

    >>care of you. He has written "Tooth Truth and tells it
    >>like it is. He tells how the


    ADA has

    Quoted message said:

    >>covered up this problem. So, it is just a matter of
    >>finding the right dentist. He has people


    flying in

    Quoted message said:

    >>from all over to get the work done. I believe the
    >>mercury is the cause of my problems. I hav felt
    >>better


    today that

    Quoted message said:

    >>I have in the last 2 years, and am looking forward to
    >>getting the


    rest

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    of the

    Quoted message said:

    >>mercury out and the root canal pulled. Jan

    When Jan was asked how she could feel better than she
    had in two years she said that it was because she
    felt relief that ALL the amalgams had been removed
    and that her bill was paid off. This was clearly a
    LIE since Jan still had some amalgams left and
    according to her would not have them out for another
    few weeks.

    Here are her exact words:

    >Rich for the LAST time, I said I felt better than I
    >had in two years.


    That was

    Quoted message said:

    >very true. I had been very very ill and my health was
    >deteriorating


    fast.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    After

    Quoted message said:

    >much reading and research I was convinced it was my
    >teeth. I wasn't


    absolutely

    Quoted message said:

    >positivity 100% sure, but it all fit together and I
    >knew I had to do


    something.

    Quoted message said:

    >It wasn't easy, what if it didn't work? That was very
    >stressful. Finally all the work was done, the metal
    >was out, the bill was paid, I


    didn't

    Quoted message said:

    >have to sit in the dentist chairs for hours with a
    >rubber dam in my mouth!!!!!!!!!! Of course I was very
    >relieved. A big big burden was


    lifted.

    Quoted message said:

    >That makes one FEEL BETTER.
    >
    >What's so hard to understand?

    Notice closely how Jan originally claims that she felt
    better than she did in two years BEFORE all the work
    was done. According to her the work would not be
    completed for another few weeks!!!

    And when I confronted her about this contradiction Jan
    said:

    >I wasn't talking to you. Jan

    Obviously Jan sees no problem telling one person one
    thing and then contradicting herself by telling someone
    else something quite different!! This alone suggests
    serious credibility issues with Jan Drew.

    Remember that on March 4, 1999 she felt pretty good.
    But after having three quarters of her amalgams removed
    she felt even better than that. And a week later she
    was able to go line dancing for the first time in
    months.

    Discussion (opinion):

    The most likely explanation IMO for Jan Drew's
    improvement are psychologic factors.

    I believe that the deterioration in her health was
    largely due to her worrying and obsessing about her
    being poisoned by mercury due to buying into the idea
    that the amalgams were causing her health problems.
    This also occurred when she thought she was infested
    with parasites.

    I also believe that the improvement in her health was
    largely due to her relief that she finally was getting
    rid of what she believed was causing her problem. She
    had a similar response after having a cleanse that she
    believed got rid of parasites.

    IOW I believe that Jan Drew is an excellent example of
    the power of placebo and that her history is
    consistent with psychologic factors affecting physical
    illness although I recommend competent health
    professional to evaluate her for a more definitive
    opinion.

    I have no doubt that her mercury level is declining.
    After all she had all her amalgams removed. The
    question is whether at the highest level was the
    mercury level causing any significant health problems
    for Jan Drew. Jan certainly believes that it was. Her
    history, IMO, strongly suggests otherwise.

    I predict that Jan will respond to this post in one of
    the following:

    1)She will ignore it and/or put me in her kill file
    2) She will snip most of what I say and accuse me of
    lying without specifically saying what I lied about
    3) She will divert from the topic by accusing me of
    various things including but not limited to a)hiking
    in the nude b) using her parents to belittle her,
    c)being obsessed with her, d) calling me a Jew-boy,
    pervert or some other creative insult from Jan "it
    is NEVER right to belittle" Drew. Perhaps she will
    wish some disability on me.

    What she will NOT do is

    1) Discuss the subject in a reasonable fashion
    2) Point out any lies that she continues to accuse me
    of

    What she will likely end up doing is violating two of
    the Ten Commandments:

    1) Thou shalt not lie (she does this when she accuses
    me of lying with respect to her history as I
    provided it WITH direct citations from Jan)

    2) Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy
    neighbor (again doing this by accusing me of various
    things such as lying and/or stalking).

    And finally if you have unanswered health problems my
    suggestion is to NOT take the advice of Jan Drew. And
    if you are foolish enough to listen to her please don't
    say that I did not warn you.

    Aloha,

    Rich

    -------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------------

    The best defense to logic is ignorance


    -------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------------

    The best defense to logic is ignorance

  9. <Rich.@.> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Jan has called someone a Jew Boy and posted his complete
    name address> and


    phone number telling people not to do business with him. He
    then> stopped posting here.

    Lie.

    Now Jan is trying to reveal that another poster> is
    really him.

    You mean Kim? Your personal shill to carry out your
    purposes?

    Jan tries to find out and reveal the true identity of>
    people who want to post anonymously.

    Another lie.

    Some might decide that they don't> want their true identity
    known and stop posting.> >> >Having people's email accounts
    closed may not stop everyone, but in some> >cases it can
    cause serious difficulties.

    Jan did say the tactics of the *gang* have driven many an
    alt poster off the board. Jan is not guilty of this.

    Quoted message said:


    Jan and her enablers have repeatedly contacted my ISP
    making false>


    accusations that I am stalking and trying to get my
    account closed.

    Another lie.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    Repeated references made to posters' race or ethnicity,

    Another lie.

    religion,> >marital status, gender and orientation,
    occupation and other
    such> >personal details, particularly when accompanied by
    such> >derogation, would>

    Quoted message said:

    effectively drive away some people.

    She doesn't do that.

    Quoted message said:

    This is true although ultimately if someone really wants
    to post here they can find a way. But some people can make
    it very difficult for you.

    Wasn't it you that posted her home phone number for all to
    see and harass her in her hometown? How did you come to find
    out that if you weren't stalking her?

    Quoted message said:


    This is a group to discuss alternative medicine pro
    and con.

    That doesn't mean to dismiss it out of hand as rubbish
    such as was the latest example concerning the Zapper.

    Whenever> anyone expresses con (skepticism) Jan Drew
    Whenever> immediately attacks
    them> and tries by whatever means (see above) to squelch
    them> their opinion. She>
    must be confronted about this.

    Jan will confront the lies of the anti-alts with the truth
    and poor deranged Rich sees this as Jan attacking them
    while conveniently ignoring the derogatory belittling
    attacks of his fellow travelers on this group on the alts
    on this board. Rich doesn't quibble about this. Rich must
    be confronted about this. Jan confronts him. Rich gets
    sooky and says Jan must be confronted for this. Jan
    confronts him again and Rich gets sooky and says Jan must
    be confronted for this.

    Rich....deal with the fact that Jan will confront you. You
    can't bully her or frighten her away. "The righteous are
    bold as Lions". She's not afraid of you or any of your anti-
    alt kin on this NG. Deal with it.

    Quoted message said:

    The best defense to logic is ignorance

    The best offense against ignorance is the truth. Jan tells
    the truth and
    Rich doesn't like it. Rich gets sooky and stalks Jan all
    over the board.

    GET HELP RICH. LEARN TO DEAL WITH THE FACT THAT YOU'RE NOT
    GOING TO DRIVE JAN OFF THIS NEWSGROUP! IT'S A FACT. DON'T BE
    SUCH A SOOKY BABY

  10. "W_B" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On 12 Mar 2004 16:10:07 GMT, [email hidden]

    (Ilsa9.11) said:
    Quoted message said:


    "DEBBEE1023" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...
    > << If she's posting things that can harm others or
    > possibly cost them their long term health or lives
    > then perhaps it should be questioned.

    Quoted message said:

    >
    > And you should be questioned for talking about things
    > for which you


    have

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    no
    > personal knowledge in the first place.....
    >
    > << I don't agree with her beliefs that a magic zapper
    > exists that kills non-existent parasites that cause
    > all disease. Are we not supposed to question such
    > things here? >>
    >
    > Good for you.
    >
    >
    > << Then just KILLFILE me if I'm making this an
    > INDECENT group. What's
    your
    > problem? >>
    >
    > The problem I have with you...is that your internet
    > addresses don't


    match

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > up.....

    Debbee did you ever consider that it may be Rich
    posting as Kim?

    No, because Rich is Debbee. (A little retrospective
    paranoia for the MHA regulars...)

    Then who is "The Eggman" ?


    ============
    The Eggman is really the Milkman. The Milkman is posing as
    Kim who is a plant for Carrotman. The plot thickens like a
    simmering pot of peasoup.

    Kim

  11. <Rich.@.> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I really appreciate Toby confronting her because it is
    rare for someone allied with alternative medicine to
    confront another pro-alt person. This demonstrates great
    integrity of Toby and willingness to tolerate the
    possible consequences (see above) of criticizing Jan.
    Kudos to Toby.


    ====================]
    Has anyone ever tried to call or contact Jan's ISP and
    complain about these tactics she's using? Why isn't
    something done about her?

    Kim

  12. X-No-Archive: yes

    "Gymmy Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:z5Sdnbv-aM9qps_dRVn-
    [email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "UTTER THREAT" is a criminal charge punishable by
    imprisonment in Canada


    for

    Quoted message said:

    up to five year

    And NO you are never, ever anonymous on the internet, no
    mattr what the ISPs or news providers tell you. When the
    cops lay down the warrant, they open the books or shut
    down and go to jail for obstructing justice.

    Been there, done that.


    ========================
    Exactly. You cannot harass, threaten and STALK people and
    get away with it forever. An experienced detective can get
    on a case and know who the stalker is in less than a week -
    even if they're using remailers.

    Kim

  13. "DEBBEE1023" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    << From: "Kim" [email hidden] >>

    is this phony?


    =======
    Path: internal1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!border2.nntp.ash.giga-
    news.com!border1.nntp.ah.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey-
    m2.news.aol.com !not-for-mail Lines: 28 X-Admin:
    [email hidden] From: [email hidden] (DEBBEE1023)
    Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative Date: 12 Mar 2004
    03:54:40 GMT References: <0K-dndFzbOh-
    [email hidden]> Organization: AOL
    aol.comaol.com Subject: Re: to Jan Message-ID: <20040311225440.15108.00001300@mb-
    m18.aol.com> Xref: intern1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com
    misc.health.alternative:382089

    Is yours (above) phony?

    Quoted message said:

    << [email hidden]> >> Nope...this isn't
    right yet...

    Am I supposed to care?

    Quoted message said:

    << NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.82.112.1 >>

    Quoted message said:

    Hughes Network Systems in Maryland...

    You mentioned this one before. So? It's my understanding
    they don't provide FREE Usenet service. Let me know if they
    do and I'll sigh up. ;-)

    Quoted message said:

    << No matter what anyone says here YOU call them a liar.
    You turn them


    off

    Quoted message said:

    before they even know what this NG is all about or get to
    know many of the posters. >>

    Quoted message said:

    Well, I am wondering what your motives really are her,
    myself, after discovering this information about you...

    What information? That I'm posting from MD? Why should I
    care? Are YOU threatening me?

    Kim

  14. <Rich.@.> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On 12 Mar 2004 05:49:55 GMT, [email hidden]

    (Jan) said:

    Rich will be right along to tell ya the answers to all
    these quuestion,


    you

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    asked *ME*.

    If Jan has me kill filed how can she know that I am doing
    this?? Oops. The jig is up. Another lie. Sad that. Yes
    Jan, I know you will be reading this. You fool no one when
    you claim to kill file people. You are a terrible liar.

    Cue Jan to start another post attacking me. Just watch.

    By attacking you mean telling the truth?

    Quoted message said:


    Jan says it is never right to belittle. Then she
    belittles.

    No she doesn't.

    Quoted message said:


    Jan says that she never snips to change meaning of posts.
    Then she snips and changes meaning of posts.

    No she doesn't.

    Quoted message said:


    Jan says she never lied on mha. Then Jan lies.

    No she doesn't.

    Quoted message said:


    Jan says that she always proves other's lies. Then Jan
    does not prove other's lies.

    She always does.

    Quoted message said:


    Jan says that she is a Christian. Then she lies and bears
    false witness.

    She does not lie nor bear false witness.

    She says that Jesus was there when God wrote the Ten

    Quoted message said:

    Commandments.

    We believe that Jesus is God and as such inhabits
    eternity(and is omniscient) although I personally believe
    his point of origin as God was when he was conceived in the
    Virgin Mary's womb. He that inhabits eternity lives in all
    the past, present and future of eternity so of course Jesus
    was there when God wrote the ten commandments. Jesus was
    also there when God created man as evidenced by "and God
    said, let us create man in our image"! He said US and OUR!

    Quoted message said:


    Jan says that she is not an anti-semite. But she calls a
    Jewish man a Jew Boy and says that lying comes second
    nature to Jews and that all> the


    jews in this newsgroup save one, lie.

    How many times did she call someone a Jew Boy?

    Quoted message said:

    What are we supposed to call them? Gays? I've never heard
    her call anyone a queer or an [censored].

    Quoted message said:


    Jan says that she does not hate anyone but then she
    expresses hatred.

    Only in sook Rich's mind does Jan do this.

    Quoted message said:


    Jan says Judge Not Lest YOu Be Judged and yet she is the
    biggest judger of all.

    With what judgement she judges she judges righteously.
    That's more than can be said for you.

    Quoted message said:


    Jan says that it is good not to hold grudges and instead
    to forgive.

    That's true. Amazing the grudges you hold. You do hold
    grudges don't you?

    Quoted message said:

    She posts an interview with God which tells her to
    forgive. Jan Drew>


    continues to hold grudges and obsessively posts grudges from
    years> ago.

    No she doesn't. She posts clarification's to your lies from
    long ago which you keep obsessively posting here.

    Quoted message said:


    Jan personally attacks people and calls them liars simply
    for having a>


    different opinion from hers.

    No she doesn't.

    Quoted message said:


    Jan Drew calls others hypocrites when she is the biggest
    hypocrite (see above) of all.

    No she doesn't and she's not.

    Quoted message said:


    Jan Drew criticizes conventional medicine for giving
    medicines that only cover up the problem. Jan Drew takes
    two medications that only >


    cover up the problem.

    Quoted message said:


    Jan says that she had mercury poisoning and almost died
    and her life was saved by having amalgams removed. Jan
    knows that it was relief> that


    made her feel better than she had in TWO YEARS!!!!

    Quoted message said:

    Jan says that the reason she felt better than she had in
    two years was>


    because all the dental work was done. It was not done.

    Quoted message said:


    Jan says that the reason she knows it was the mercury
    because she did> not


    begin to regain her health until AFTER her mercury
    level dropped.

    Why would you doubt this?

    Quoted message said:

    Jan knows this is a lie as she began to regain her health
    when her mercury level was likely the highest in her life.

    You don't even believe in mercury poisoning from dental
    amalgams so how can you say her mercury level was the
    highest in her life? You don't believe in it remember?

    Quoted message said:


    Jan says that the reason that she was able to go out line
    dancing a week after some amalgams were removed was
    because she was not getting> a


    daily dose of mercury. Jan knows this is a lie because she
    still had> some amalgams left and they would not be removed
    for another few> weeks.

    She had what, about 20 amalgams taken out. So she had 2 or 3
    left in her mouth and the daily dose of mercury was just a
    fraction of what it was before. She obviously had enough
    strength from the much lesser dose of daily mercury to
    easily go line dancing. What do you find hard to understand
    about that?

    Quoted message said:


    Jan accused me of lying when I said she felt better than
    she had in years instead of two years. Jan knows that she
    lied about this.

    ????????

    Quoted message said:


    Jan accused me of lying when I said she felt better than
    she had in two years because of what I was implying. But
    Jan knows I was implying>


    that it was a placebo response and Jan ADMITTED that she
    felt better> due to relief.

    She's explained the relief many times. Some obsessed people
    can't seem to understand it. Or rather don't want to.

    Quoted message said:


    Jan accused me of lying when I mistakenly posted January
    instead of> June


    when she likely knew that I just made a mistake.

    Quoted message said:


    And this is only the tip of the iceberg.

    Jan is a despicable, liar, bigot, hypocrite, hate monger,
    anti-semite, homophobe, belittler, and judger. And I
    proved it with her OWN WORDS.

    None of what you say is true. She is not a liar, or a bigot,
    or an hypocrite, or an hate monger, or an anti-Semite, or an
    homophobe, or a belittler and if she judges she judges far
    more righteously than ever Rich her stalker does and he
    hasn't proved it at all.

    Quoted message said:

    May God have mercy on her soul.

    He will. What about yours?

  15. "Gymmy Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I haven't seen one of Jan's posts for almost a year now.

    You know her a lot better than I do. I'm sure you have a
    good reason to killfile her. Perhaps you should killfile
    me as well.

    Quoted message said:

    What is the problem with these control freaks that they
    have to attack everything they do not understand...fear...

    You can't know what's in the minds of other people or what
    they do and do not understand.

    just fear of wht they do not

    Quoted message said:

    understand. If it was even done politely, but the ridicule
    and ridiculous [censored] they pull just to keep her talking
    and why? So they can destroy their enemies like a sick
    bunch of jackasses.

    Quoted message said:

    Grow up and put her on ignore. Is that so hard or do you
    have to control


    the

    Quoted message said:

    world too?

    Grow up? This is seldom a term used by mature or educated
    people. You may want to refrain.

    Kim

  16. "Gymmy Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Well you just convince me you are a troll here. I tried
    and you trolled.

    <PLONK>


    ==================
    Am I supposed to care?

    Kim

  17. Kim said:


    X-No-Archive: yes

    "Peter Bowditch" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message > >

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >
    Do you really believe that "No one can stop you posting
    here"?

    Have a look at ratbags.comonews and
    ratbags.comgal.htm

    Nobody can stop you posting here.


    =======================================
    Let me say this. I looked at the sites briefly. This type
    of thing goes on all over Usenet. When you get a screwball
    sending you e-mail you can just killfile them - it's like
    hanging up on a freak re' the phone. And know this - if
    those who write viruses and worms can be "traced" even with
    anonymous re-mailers ANYONE can be traced to their ISP or
    point of origin. The ISP must then turn over the the guilty
    persons information.

    My point was that even a torrent of abuse like the rantings
    and threats of Mr O'Neill cannot silence someone who does
    not want to be silenced. I decided to publish everything
    that this moron sent to me or said about me as an example to
    other people of how easy it was going to be to get rid of
    me. This is also the thinking behind my "vacuous legal
    threats" page at
    ratbags.comlawyersahoy.htm

    Also, Mr O'Neill took his battle into real life by
    contacting people who I might have business relationships
    with, my family and the police. He also posted much of his
    [censored] publicly and I will not let slurs against my family go
    unremarked. In any case I could not killfile him once he
    discovered anonymous remailers and newsreaders

    Quoted message said:

    Why are people using their REAL names here on Usenet?
    Even a business website can have a "munged" name for
    safety and privacy. This is just inviting the weirdoes to
    harass others.

    I can't do what I do anonymously and maintain credibility. I
    write magazine articles and I appear on television and
    radio. My web presence has to support this, so I have to use
    the same name everywhere.

    I could hardly write anonymously for the stuff I did for and
    about the Australian Computer Society (and which was used by
    Jan to attack me), and I would look ridiculous if I used an
    alias on my commercial web site as I am a consultant and
    therefore the major product sold by the business. I am
    listed as a certified consultant on some of my software
    suppliers' web sites, with links back to my business site,
    which is another reason why I have to use a real name. I
    should point out that I never mention either the name of my
    business or its web address on
    m.h.a because that would be violating the non-commercial
    rule of the charter, and in any case the business has
    nothing to do with medicine, either real or not.

    Jan will probably take this opportunity to accuse me of
    commercialism and spamming because I have the RatbagsDotCom
    sites in my signature. Leaving aside the fact that she never
    seems to have a problem with the links she posts to sites
    which are blatant sales outlets, I would like make it public
    that my total commissions from Amazon.com for the quarter
    ended December 31, 2003, came to $US15.72. That was the
    combined total for all sales from four web sites
    (RatbagsDotCom, ACAHF, my personal site at Telstra Bigpond,
    and the commercial site which doesn't get identified here).
    I would like to thank the person who bought the DVD of the
    fourth season of The Sopranos. If sales keep up I will be
    able to afford the lease payments on a new BMW 666i.

    Quoted message said:

    I will also say this. Since I'm retired I have no co-
    workers or superior to be concerned about. I post from the
    privacy of my own home and from my own personal computer.
    My ISP does not believe in censorship and if things change
    in that area I would simply get a new ISP. Inconvenient?
    Yes, but I would do it since I believe in freedom of
    speech. There are so many ISPs out there now, all competing
    for our business - few will censor you.

    Someone complained to my employer once. You would have
    thought that an email address with "peterb" before the @
    sign would have been a clue about who would probably receive
    the mail. My boss suspended me from work over the incident,
    not because of the complaint but because I was laughing so
    much that I couldn't do any useful work for an hour.

    The RatbagsDotCom site has been hosted at three places. The
    first one went broke and the second one sold the business to
    the third one. All have assured me that they will respond to
    a court order but not to threats. All of them have used a
    similar form of words to those spoken by the NSW policeman
    who visited me following a complaint that Mr O'Neill had
    made to the Mounties: "We'll go back to the office and

    --
    Peter Bowditch
    The Millenium Project ratbags.comrsoles
    The Green Light ratbags.comgreenlight
    and The New Improved Quintessence of the Loon with added Vitamins and C-Q10 ratbags.comloon
    To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

  18. "Kimmer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Debbee said:

    << From: "Kim" [email hidden] >>

    is this phony?

    << [email hidden]> >>

    Nope...this isn't right yet...

    << NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.82.112.1 >>

    Hughes Network Systems in Maryland...

    << No matter what anyone says here YOU call them a liar.
    You turn


    them off

    Quoted message said:

    before they even know what this NG is all about or get
    to know many of


    the

    Quoted message said:

    posters. >>

    Well, I am wondering what your motives really are her,
    myself, after discovering this information about you...

    And you've never used an invalid addy to prevent spammers?

    She/he/it is clearly threatening me and trying to intimidate
    me. It's happened before.

    I use

    Quoted message said:

    several when I post. The one that shows up when you hit
    'reply' will bounce right back at you.

    Almost everyone who uses Usenet uses a fake e-mail address.
    Or they use an account just for Usenet, and for the spam-
    bots to fill up.

    So will another one I like to use,

    Quoted message said:

    [email hidden] (or if it goes through it's not to
    me; I made it up and never had the addy myself).

    I change mine daily to fill up the boxes of the spammers.

    Quoted message said:

    Go ahead and accuse me of being something I'm not, too.

    Quoted message said:

    Kimmer

    That seems to be how the alt fanatics on this NG handle
    people who question their beliefs. You would think we ran
    into their church and started to question or curse their
    God. Unbelievable.....

    Kim

  19. <Rich.@.> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On 12 Mar 2004 21:38:37 GMT, [email hidden]

    (Jan) said:
    Quoted message said:

    "I have never snipped to change the meaning. I don't
    play nonsense games, rather I am straight forward."

    No lie there as I have NEVER snipped to change the
    meaning of any post.

    If you will notice everyone snips to the point they are
    making.

    Yes they do. However Jan snips to change the meaning.
    For example the following just YESTERDAY!! How quickly
    they forget:

    How did Jan snip here to change the meaning? She just
    posted to the fact that Kim DID lie about her ultimate
    intentions in this newsgroup. She did not change one
    bloody word that Kim spoke. Or anybody else. Rich get
    help. You need it.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    From: [email hidden] (Jan) Newsgroups:
    misc.health.alternative

    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Biblical lesson for Jan From: WB
    [email hidden] Date: 2/25/2004 10:37 AM Pacific
    Standard Time Message-id:
    <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    I have never snipped to change the meaning. I don't
    play nonsense


    games, rather I am straight forward.

    Quoted message said:

    And then Jan posts the following:

    On 12 Mar 2004 01:41:40 GMT, [email hidden]

    (Jan) said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Crucifying Alternative Medicine From: "Kim"
    [email hidden] Date: 3/11/2004 12:10 PM Pacific Standard
    Time Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    Rich.@.> wrote in message

    Quoted message said:

    believe she uses

    Quoted message said:

    she can logically

    Quoted message said:

    Jan cannot

    Quoted message said:

    she call people

    Quoted message said:

    but she does

    Quoted message said:

    I noticed this in the past few days

    LOLOLOL!!!!!

    Quoted message said:

    First of all she does not

    Quoted message said:

    she just says

    Quoted message said:

    she does

    Quoted message said:

    if she did

    Quoted message said:

    she certainly

    Quoted message said:

    Jan uses

    Quoted message said:

    bash the person

    Quoted message said:

    Yes, ....

    *Please note, I don't wish to get involved in any
    personal conflicts

    Quoted message said:

    > between
    > > >the posters here. I'm simply looking for answers.*

    Now let me restore the complete post for all to see how
    Jan never snips to change meaning:

    Quoted message said:

    <Rich.@.> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Actually I don't really think that she is necessarily
    paranoid. I used to think she was. Now I believe she
    uses the term liar to discredit a person with whom she
    can logically dispute what they say. You see when Jan
    cannot counter a point logically she screams "liar".
    Not only does she call people liars but she claims that
    she proves all lies with the poster's own word, but she
    does not.

    I noticed this in the past few days, Her posts are also
    boring and repetitious. Who would care what one poster
    thinks of others on the NG? This is Usenet after
    all.......

    Quoted message said:

    >Allow me to make a suggestion. Do yourself and
    >everyone else a favor. Killfile everyone on the NG who
    >you believe to be liars before you


    have a

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >stroke or heart attack.

    Quoted message said:

    That does not work. First of all she does not put
    people in kill files. She just says that she does.
    Secondly even if she did put people in kill files, she
    certainly does not ignore these people. Whenever anyone
    responds to some in her alleged kill file, Jan uses
    that opportunity to bash the person.

    Yes, .... and [censored] to me that she SAW someone else's
    post because I reposted it in a reply. That's MY BUSINESS
    not hers or anyone else's


    here.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I almost always include at least part of the other
    person's post I'm replying to. I assume she was
    suggesting I don't reply to certain people here least she
    happen to see their post - how crazy!

    Kim

    No Jan does not selectively snip to change the meaning.
    She is STRAIGHT FORWARD. Lord have mercy.

    Aloha,

    Rich

    Quoted message said:


    Sorry you have fallen for this lie from the *gang*.

    There is no lie from the gang. There is however a lie from
    the Jan. No surprise there from the woman who screams liar
    the most and lies the most. Sad that.

    Quoted message said:


    Jan

    The *gang* will be sure to follow, just watch *;*

    Glad I did not disappoint Jan.

    Aloha,

    Rich

    -------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------------

    The best defense to logic is ignorance

  20. <Rich.@.> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I wonder what Jan thinks about that. Cue Jan to accuse me
    of diversion. Jan is selective about which biblical
    passages she endorses.


    =============
    And that was called incest, drunkenness and whoredom. All
    sins. For these

    was, after God killed his poor wife for doing nothing more
    than looking back at the spectacle of a burning city.

    BTW, my friend is getting a lift to the nearest library to
    get to books on Diabetes, exercise and diet. The foot is
    touch and go. I sure hope he doesn't lose it because he
    lives alone.

    Kim

Active in the last 60 minutes

Active in this thread

0 users · 0 guests ·0 bots ·0 total

No signed-in users are active right now.

No known search crawlers active right now.