Andrew Muzi wrote:
>>> On Tue, 7 Aug 2007 07:07:05 -0500, "Keats" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes I know. *Most* imprisoned terrorists are turned in by their
>>>> brother-in-laws who never liked them to begin with or were forced on
>>>> into the field of battle by *others* just like *most* inmates in any
>>>> prison are *innocent* of all charges. What we are doing to them is
>>>> just plain *mean*. They've been humiliated enough.
>>>>
>>>> We should free them all, don't you think?
>
>> still me <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> If they are guilty, then they need to be tried and convicted. I don't
>>> have any problem with that. But, holding people indefinitely without
>>> charging them is against everything this country was founded on. If
>>> you don't know that, you should go back and review the Constitution.
>
> Tim McNamara wrote:
>> And that is exactly the point. The Bush Administration has overturned
>> the principle of rule of law and is in violation of its oath to uphold
>> and defend the Constitution.
>
> No expert, but I keep a copy on my desk. Where's that section on
> out-of-uniform enemy combatants overseas and their 'rights' under the
> American Constitution again??
>
> I did see the 'oath' part, "I will support and defend the Constitution
> of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic". Sounds
> good to me, glad he was sincere in it.
>
> hint: Why does Geneva require uniforms, chain of command etc for
> definition of POWs?
To quote from the "Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12
August 1949, and relating to the Protection of Victims of International
Armed Conflicts (Protocol I), 8 June 1977":
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Art 44. Combatants and prisoners of war
1. Any combatant, as defined in Article 43, who falls into the power of
an adverse Party shall be a prisoner of war.
2. While all combatants are obliged to comply with the rules of
international law applicable in armed conflict, violations of these
rules shall not deprive a combatant of his right to be a combatant or,
if he falls into the power of an adverse Party, of his right to be a
prisoner of war, except as provided in paragraphs 3 and 4.
3. In order to promote the protection of the civilian population from
the effects of hostilities, combatants are obliged to distinguish
themselves from the civilian population while they are engaged in an
attack or in a military operation preparatory to an attack. Recognizing,
however, that there are situations in armed conflicts where, owing to
the nature of the hostilities an armed combatant cannot so distinguish
himself, he shall retain his status as a combatant, provided that, in
such situations, he
carries his arms openly:
(a) during each military engagement, and
(b) during such time as he is visible to the adversary while he is
engaged in a military deployment preceding the launching of an attack in
which he is to participate.
Acts which comply with the requirements of this paragraph shall not be
considered as perfidious within the meaning of Article 37, paragraph 1 (c).
4. A combatant who falls into the power of an adverse Party while
failing to meet the requirements set forth in the second sentence of
paragraph 3 shall forfeit his right to be a prisoner of war, but he
shall, nevertheless, be given protections equivalent in all respects to
those accorded to prisoners of war by the Third Convention and by this
Protocol. This protection includes protections equivalent to those
accorded to prisoners of war by the Third Convention in the case where
such a person is tried and punished for any offences he has committed.
5. Any combatant who falls into the power of an adverse Party while not
engaged in an attack or in a military operation preparatory to an attack
shall not forfeit his rights to be a combatant and a prisoner of war by
virtue of his prior activities .
6. This Article is without prejudice to the right of any person to be a
prisoner of war pursuant to Article 4 of the Third Convention.
7. This Article is not intended to change the generally accepted
practice of States with respect to the wearing of the uniform by
combatants assigned to the regular, uniformed armed units of a Party to
the conflict.
8. In addition to the categories of persons mentioned in Article 13 of
the First and Second Conventions, all members of the armed forces of a
Party to the conflict, as defined in Article 43 of this Protocol, shall
be entitled to protection under those Conventions if they are wounded or
sick or, in the case of the Second Convention, shipwrecked at sea or in
other waters.
Art 45. Protection of persons who have taken part in hostilities
1. A person who takes part in hostilities and falls into the power of an
adverse Party shall be presumed to be a prisoner of war, and therefore
shall be protected by the Third Convention, if he claims the status of
prisoner of war, or if he appears to be entitled to such status, or if
the Party on which he depends claims such status on his behalf by
notification to the detaining Power or to the Protecting Power. Should
any doubt arise as to whether any such person is entitled to the status
of prisoner of war, he shall continue to have such status and,
therefore, to be protected by the Third Convention and this Protocol
until such time as his status has been determined by a competent tribunal.
2. If a person who has fallen into the power of an adverse Party is not
held as a prisoner of war and is to be tried by that Party for an
offence arising out of the hostilities, he shall have the right to
assert his entitlement to prisoner-of-war status before a judicial
tribunal and to have that question adjudicated. Whenever possible under
the applicable procedure, this adjudication shall occur before the trial
for the offence. The representatives of the Protecting Power shall be
entitled to attend the proceedings in which that question is
adjudicated, unless, exceptionally, the proceedings are held in camera
in the interest of State security. In such a case the detaining Power
shall advise the Protecting Power accordingly.
3. Any person who has taken part in hostilities, who is not entitled to
prisoner-of-war status and who does not benefit from more favourable
treatment in accordance with the Fourth Convention shall have the right
at all times to the protection of Article 75 of this Protocol. In
occupied territory, any such person, unless he is held as a spy, shall
also be entitled, notwithstanding Article 5 of the Fourth Convention, to
his rights of communication under that Convention.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note what No. 4 says - it doesn't make any difference if the prisoner
qualifies as a POW or not for how the are to be treated!
> Maybe call pilots of airplanes-into-buildings 'freedom fighters'??
"Freedom fighters" is what Ronald Reagan called Usama bin Laden and company.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
--
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