Power Quest 4 the 2busy

[kopride]

You're absolutely right. I have re-estimated my FTP at 270, and working between 85-95% of that (230 - 256) for 30 minutes at a time, and up to an hour or more in a session is very manageable and reasonable to recover from. I just did 4 straight days of SST/FTP work:

2 x 28 @ ~250
1 x 20 on an exercise bike using PE
3 x 20 @ ~240 within a 2:40 endurance ride with an overall AW 210
1 x 28, 1 x 38 both @238, 1 x 18 @228 while watching the Super Bowl with my sons

Nothing special about the 8s, I was just riding specific Computrainer courses.

Since I've revised my FTP estimate upwards to equal yours, I'm even more curious to hear how your training is going.

Thanks for reading. Sounds like we are on paralell tracks and can push each other through this winter.

 

[ctgt]

Thanks for reading. Sounds like we are on paralell tracks and can push each other through this winter.

OK, Kopride, where are you? Time to report back in to your thread and let the other 40-42 year old dads know how its going.

I've been really increasing my training time, although I don't think more than 10% of it has been between 9:00 A.M. and 9:00 P.M. Last Saturday, I did 110 km and was off the trainer at 8:45 A.M.!

 

[kopride]

OK, Kopride, where are you? Time to report back in to your thread and let the other 40-42 year old dads know how its going.

Thanks for asking. I've been really increasing my training time, although I don't think more than 10% of it has been between 9:00 A.M. and 9:00 P.M. Last Saturday, I did 110 km and was off the trainer at 8:45 A.M.!

Lack of time and a series of illnesses has taken its toll. The week before President's Weekend, a stomach bug levelled me, then I came back from a President's Wknd ski trip with a nasty chest cold. Anyway, Wed was a 2 x 20 @ 230 w, and last night was a lift session. I am trying to fit in another reccovery week of 2 x 20s and then L4 -L5 work is going to assume a greater role. As the weather breaks, i am expecting more outdoor riding as well.

 

[ctgt]

Lack of time and a series of illnesses has taken its toll. The week before President's Weekend, a stomach bug levelled me, then I came back from a President's Wknd ski trip with a nasty chest cold. Anyway, Wed was a 2 x 20 @ 230 w, and last night was a lift session. I am trying to fit in another reccovery week of 2 x 20s and then L4 -L5 work is going to assume a greater role. As the weather breaks, i am expecting more outdoor riding as well.

It's just not fair when healthy people get sick! I'm planning to get sick in mid-March (see CTL building strategies thread )

 

[kopride]

Healthy finally for a few weeks. Mixing it up a bit from the 2 x 20 standbys. Sunday was a 1 x 40 at 200 watts; Saturday I did a Carmichael video that was basically a lot of work between 240 -325. Friday was two escalating hill intervals of 8 minutes each, low cadence, big gear at 300; Wednesday was 2 sets of descending ladder intervals 2 minutes, 90, 75, 60 and 45 with descending rest periods, about 110-115% of FTP. And Monday was some over under FTP intervals of 12 minutes each. Tonite will be a 2 x 20 session for old times sake.

Also, the past month doing a lot of bodyweight training with some kettlebells. Finally mastered a good pistol, one armed push ups, and lots of pull ups. I know weight training is heresy on this forum but I figure that the bodyweight stuff should keep my weight down.

I am also planning a FTP 1 hour test this weekend. we wil see if I am coming out of the winter any stronger.

 

[Simone@Italy]

Healthy finally for a few weeks. Mixing it up a bit from the 2 x 20 standbys. Sunday was a 1 x 40 at 200 watts; Saturday I did a Carmichael video that was basically a lot of work between 240 -325. Friday was two escalating hill intervals of 8 minutes each, low cadence, big gear at 300; Wednesday was 2 sets of descending ladder intervals 2 minutes, 90, 75, 60 and 45 with descending rest periods, about 110-115% of FTP. And Monday was some over under FTP intervals of 12 minutes each. Tonite will be a 2 x 20 session for old times sake.

Do you care to elaborate a little how do you execute over/under FTP intervals?

 

[kopride]

Do you care to elaborate a little how do you execute over/under FTP intervals?

This is a carmichael (CTS) workout that I have modified a bit. They are 2 separate sets of 12 minute intervals with a ten minute recovery between each set. Each set is 1 minute "over" at 115-120% FTP (RPE of 10) and 2 minutes "under" at 90% of FTP (RPE 7-8) x 4 for the 12 minute set. There is no recovery between the over and under. You are basically doing 24 total minutes of intervals within an hour, 8 x 1 min @ L5 (L6?) and 8 x 2 min @ L4.

I find that there is a great deal of variability within the 1 minute "over." My first few "overs," I am pushing into the 350-375 range. Eventually, I am settling into "overs" of 315-325, and my last one can be as low as 295 for the second set. My FTP is about 270. I will download my latest and give you the exact numbers but I am much more conscious of the wattage on the unders and basically go as hard as I can on the overs. The goal is to basically go as close to all out as you can on the overs, and then settle back into just below time trial pace. It is a killer workout and simulates the kind of riding you need to do in a short race, brief pulls and sprints to hang on, followed by fast pack riding. It is also very time efficient. A ten minute warmup and ten minute cool down plus the two sets (and the ten minute recovery) gives a total workout of 54 minutes. 6 minutes to fill your water bottle, put a good show on the TV and get your shoes on and you are done your workout in an hour. If you stretch for 5 minutes, afterwards it is still pretty close to an hour.

 

[Simone@Italy]

This is a carmichael (CTS) workout that I have modified a bit. They are 2 separate sets of 12 minute intervals with a ten minute recovery between each set. Each set is 1 minute "over" at 115-120% FTP (RPE of 10) and 2 minutes "under" at 90% of FTP (RPE 7-8) x 4 for the 12 minute set. There is no recovery between the over and under. You are basically doing 24 total minutes of intervals within an hour, 8 x 1 min @ L5 (L6?) and 8 x 2 min @ L4.

I find that there is a great deal of variability within the 1 minute "over." My first few "overs," I am pushing into the 350-375 range. Eventually, I am settling into "overs" of 315-325, and my last one can be as low as 295 for the second set. My FTP is about 270. I will download my latest and give you the exact numbers but I am much more conscious of the wattage on the unders and basically go as hard as I can on the overs. The goal is to basically go as close to all out as you can on the overs, and then settle back into just below time trial pace. It is a killer workout and simulates the kind of riding you need to do in a short race, brief pulls and sprints to hang on, followed by fast pack riding. It is also very time efficient. A ten minute warmup and ten minute cool down plus the two sets (and the ten minute recovery) gives a total workout of 54 minutes. 6 minutes to fill your water bottle, put a good show on the TV and get your shoes on and you are done your workout in an hour. If you stretch for 5 minutes, afterwards it is still pretty close to an hour.

Thank you, I'll give it a try. As far as I can understand, you are doing it on indoor trainer, right? Could this workout be useful to raise FTP too, or is it just limited to crits/short races tuning?

 

[kopride]

Thank you, I'll give it a try. As far as I can understand, you are doing it on indoor trainer, right? Could this workout be useful to raise FTP too, or is it just limited to crits/short races tuning?

Most of my "training" is indoors. When I ride outdoors on the weekend, it is usually longer tempo rides with buddies for fun. I am a big fish in a small pond with this group so I can usually dictate the pace. In this over/under workout, you are still riding two relatively long intervals (12 minutes). During the winter when I was really focused on FTP base building, I was doing more SST 2 x 20s. If you look at what SOT was doing during the tail end of his It's Killing Me thread, he was "pulling" his FTP by spending some time above FTP. it worked for him.

I will tell you, these shorter harder intervals do drop down the 2 x 20 averages once these types of workouts are thrown in. I seem to need a longer recovery time than a traditional 2 x20 SST workout, and have a harder time keeping it in the higher range of the SST if I throw a 2 x 20 in the mix too soon after a hard over under. For example, I really struggled yesterday trying to complete two SST 20 minute intervals. I am also doing a lot of bodyweight pistols as part of some other fitness goal I am working on, and I think I am a bit overtrained.

As I said, a big part of my goal is to get the maximum benefit in basically three one hour weekday cycling sessions and some bonus time outdoors on the weekend. My obstacles are work time, family, and my macho desire to try and still do regular strength building workouts. I have basically switched over to a bodyweight routine (as opposed to weights) but it still takes its toll (as does the cycling affect recovery and progress in the strength building).

 

[Simone@Italy]

Most of my "training" is indoors. When I ride outdoors on the weekend, it is usually longer tempo rides with buddies for fun. I am a big fish in a small pond with this group so I can usually dictate the pace. In this over/under workout, you are still riding two relatively long intervals (12 minutes). During the winter when I was really focused on FTP base building, I was doing more SST 2 x 20s. If you look at what SOT was doing during the tail end of his It's Killing Me thread, he was "pulling" his FTP by spending some time above FTP. it worked for him.

I will tell you, these shorter harder intervals do drop down the 2 x 20 averages once these types of workouts are thrown in. I seem to need a longer recovery time than a traditional 2 x20 SST workout, and have a harder time keeping it in the higher range of the SST if I throw a 2 x 20 in the mix too soon after a hard over under. For example, I really struggled yesterday trying to complete two SST 20 minute intervals. I am also doing a lot of bodyweight pistols as part of some other fitness goal I am working on, and I think I am a bit overtrained.

As I said, a big part of my goal is to get the maximum benefit in basically three one hour weekday cycling sessions and some bonus time outdoors on the weekend. My obstacles are work time, family, and my macho desire to try and still do regular strength building workouts. I have basically switched over to a bodyweight routine (as opposed to weights) but it still takes its toll (as does the cycling affect recovery and progress in the strength building).

I see.. too bad, because I hate those longer intervals

BTW, am I the only one who noticed that with bodyweight training, althought not directly useful for cycling, the recovery time has improved?

 

[bigbadwoulfe]

Any updates on this thread? Kopride how's your training going?

 

[kopride]

Any updates on this thread? Kopride how's your training going?

I am doing great. FTP estimate is about 280, but I need to do a full one hour TT. I am actually getting in more riding in as the weather cleared the past month. A typical week lately has been M: 1 x 30 @ 252; 1 x 10@ 255; T: 2 x 20@ 238; W: weight workout; Th: 2 x 20 or 5 x 5 L5; F: weights; weekends, long tempo rides with my buddies, and usually another short weight session.

I need to get out and do a one hour TT, but the weather has been pretty good so we have been doing some longer hilly rides on the weekend. I just don't have the mental state to hammer a one hour TT indoors.

I have not been racing or doing group rides as was my goal this year. My kid's sports and end of year school activities are wrapping up this week so maybe later this summer, but I think that I will see close to 300 FTP by September.

 

[Jeff Vader]

I am doing great. FTP estimate is about 280, but I need to do a full one hour TT. I am actually getting in more riding in as the weather cleared the past month. A typical week lately has been M: 1 x 30 @ 252; 1 x 10@ 255; T: 2 x 20@ 238; W: weight workout; Th: 2 x 20 or 5 x 5 L5; F: weights; weekends, long tempo rides with my buddies, and usually another short weight session.

I need to get out and do a one hour TT, but the weather has been pretty good so we have been doing some longer hilly rides on the weekend. I just don't have the mental state to hammer a one hour TT indoors.

I have not been racing or doing group rides as was my goal this year. My kid's sports and end of year school activities are wrapping up this week so maybe later this summer, but I think that I will see close to 300 FTP by September.

Try Mullica in mid-July. http://www.bikereg.com/events/register.asp?eventid=6700

Its the perfect race for first-timers.

 

[kopride]

Try Mullica in mid-July. http://www.bikereg.com/events/register.asp?eventid=6700

Its the perfect race for first-timers.

That does look like fun and I might be in Avalon that weekend anyway. I have 4 kids so it will depend upon whether my wife wants to hang with 4 kids solo. I used to ride with the Beacon group and I recall South Jersey is very flat and fast. Rolling seems to be a slight exxageration so I would imagine that it will be tight paceline all the way since there are few hills to break the packs up?

 

[kopride]

Back from vacation with the kids. When is a vacation not a vacation? When you have 4 kids in tow and emails from the office to read every night. As I mentioned in other posts, since my optimistic 6/20 post and a one hour TT that weekend, I have been plagued by a little bit of mental and physical burnout. Last week, I pretty much just rode for fun on vacation. I am going to jump on the trainer tonite and spend some quality time doing 2 x 20s @ 250. That will give me some inclination as to whether the layoff was helpful or just took me off my program. I should be able to complete them with a bit to spare in the tank. If I am running out of gas, then I will need to evaluate my program.

 

[ctgt]

This thread is only 4 pages, but I thought it was a good bump for the newer members of this forum.

 

[kopride]

Ironic that this thread was bumped. I was laid up for about 6 weeks following a pretty good summer. (FTP @285). I finally got a vasectomy and had a prolonged recovery due to an infection and then the flu. Now I'm going to jump on and start my rebuild.

I will post my progress. Tonite I'm planning on some 2 x 20s at around 220. I figured the six week lay off has bumped my back a bit.

 

[jsirabella]

Hey good to have you back and glad to hear you are doing better.

It seems like the other thread is not going anywhere so hope you can get this off season started.

-js

Ironic that this thread was bumped. I was laid up for about 6 weeks following a pretty good summer. (FTP @285). I finally got a vasectomy and had a prolonged recovery due to an infection and then the flu. Now I'm going to jump on and start my rebuild.

I will post my progress. Tonite I'm planning on some 2 x 20s at around 220. I figured the six week lay off has bumped my back a bit.

 

[kopride]

Hey good to have you back and glad to hear you are doing better.

It seems like the other thread is not going anywhere so hope you can get this off season started.

-js

Since you are from Brooklyn rather than the Bronx or Manhattan, I will be nice to you after the loss last night.

And yes, injury just adds a whole other dimension to this middle age deal.

BTW, I am making a lot of progress on my strength/fitness routine. I'm pretty much doing body weight stuff exclusively. I have rings and parallettes, so I am really adding a whole lot of the gymnastics stuff into my routine. Lots of chin and dip variations, and HSPU and planches on the parallettes. Very low risk of injury but dramatic effects. I'm even doing a very beginner ring series which is incredibly efficient.

The swollen testicles however have kept me off the bike and have been no fun.

 

[jsirabella]

Since you are from Brooklyn rather than the Bronx or Manhattan, I will be nice to you after the loss last night.

And yes, injury just adds a whole other dimension to this middle age deal.

BTW, I am making a lot of progress on my strength/fitness routine. I'm pretty much doing body weight stuff exclusively. I have rings and parallettes, so I am really adding a whole lot of the gymnastics stuff into my routine. Lots of chin and dip variations, and HSPU and planches on the parallettes. Very low risk of injury but dramatic effects. I'm even doing a very beginner ring series which is incredibly efficient.

The swollen testicles however have kept me off the bike and have been no fun.

Yeah lets stick to this one...since we usually go off on about things other than cycling.

Swollen testes .... ouch!!

Unfortunately for me I will not have much to post right now other than opinions. That silly fall in March was never diagnosed right and eventually by August turned into a mild herniation of the L5. I was using a cane about 1-2 mos ago. Finally after 2 epidurals and alot of patience and plenty of yoga type prone positions I have gotten back to something. Today I walked for about 40 minutes in the gym for 1.5 miles. I did some dips and lots of lower core exercises...lots including roman chair stuff.

I hope one day to get back in the saddle but for now will just have to listen to the stories. The sciatica is just not down enough to be able to sit in the saddle that long.

-js