Power Quest 4 the 2busy

[kopride]

Interesting holiday period. On 12/23 I did a 1 x 30 of 267 av, and then 2 x 10s at about the same, which I was able to do with surprising ease. Since that strong session, I have been struggling to do 2 x 20s at 260 plus and my intervals have been more inconsistent. Usually, I am considerably stronger on the first one (255 +) with numbers in the 240s for the second one. Last night, it was 1 x 20 at 262 and then the second closer to 248. Today, my legs feel pretty whipped.

It appears as I am seeing some trainer fatigue, and that I should start staying consistently in the mid 250s for 2 x 20s before I start to move to keeping it above 260. It just seems to take to much out of me from session to session. I am going to try a 1 x 45 tommorow at around 250 and see how that feels.

 

[daveryanwyoming]

...It appears as I am seeing some trainer fatigue, and that I should start staying consistently in the mid 250s for 2 x 20s before I start to move to keeping it above 260. It just seems to take to much out of me from session to session. I am going to try a 1 x 45 tommorow at around 250 and see how that feels.

You might try that 1x45 even a bit lower like 240 or 230 watts. You don't need to go to 90% of FTP or beyond on every workout or even most workouts. You get really good training benefit at 80-85% of FTP and it tends to be a lot easier mentally and easier to do later in the training week when you start feeling cumulative fatigue.

Assuming your FTP is somewhere around 270 watts(just a swag from your post above) you could get really good training benefit with some long intervals down to 220 watts or so (~ 81%).One workout I like to do later in the week is to start around 80% of FTP and then bring it up a few watts every 5 minutes or so for a half hour or more. If I'm really feeling it, I'll drop it back down in 5 minute blocks, pyramid style to finish around the same power I started or if I'm feeling better than expected I'll keep bumping it up till the half hour or 45 minutes is up.

Anyway there are a lot of games you can play with this stuff like the cool block workout Piotr suggests above and a bit of variety can keep it interesting.Just don't hesitate to work the mid to lower end of SST, driving all your efforts up against your personal best records is a recipe for burnout and inconsistent long term training.

-Dave

 

[kopride]

You don't need to go to 90% of FTP or beyond on every workout or even most workouts. You get really good training benefit at 80-85% of FTP and it tends to be a lot easier mentally and easier to do later in the training week when you start feeling cumulative fatigue.

Assuming your FTP is somewhere around 270 watts(just a swag from your post above) you could get really good training benefit with some long intervals down to 220 watts or so (~ 81%).
Just don't hesitate to work the mid to lower end of SST, driving all your efforts up against your personal best records is a recipe for burnout and inconsistent long term training.

-Dave

Great advice as always. Almost gave up on this forum due to the incredible spamming that has been going on. Given my time constraints, I try and push the intensity level up to compensate for the frequency. As you can see, diminishing returns set in with that strategy as well. No question, at my levels, there is a huge difference between longer intervals at 220-240 and 240-265, both in recovery and in pure mental fatigue in just pushing through. I need to realize that I need to just make the time and that there are limits to trying to overcompensate by making every session a wall crasher. I like your pyramid idea, of teasing up and down through the full range of the sweet spot, over a longer interval. Makes a lot more sense than ripping strong for the first 20, and then dying during the last ten minutes of the second. It would also help if the weather would break enough to squeeze in some longer Tempo rides outdoors on the weekends, or some mtb rides. I can deal with the cold, and I can deal with the rain, but I have no interest in riding in cold rain, and that's what we have been seeing. I can't imagine anyone from Wyoming is going to be all too sympathetic on this issue, but it is nice to get outside to break up the monotony.

 

[daveryanwyoming]

....I can't imagine anyone from Wyoming is going to be all too sympathetic on this issue, but it is nice to get outside to break up the monotony.

No worries, that's what skiing is for

 

[Frigo's Luggage]

Goals: increase power, stay ahead of the recreational group I ride with, ease back into racing this spring after lengthy lay off, fight off the malaise of middle age, keep weight down, improve hill climbing.

If you are looking to ease back into racing you might want to do the nightime points races in Fairmont Park starting in February. Have you ever done them? What category will you be racing?

 

[kopride]

If you are looking to ease back into racing you might want to do the nightime points races in Fairmont Park starting in February. Have you ever done them? What category will you be racing?

No, send me a link, that would be a great start. Is it a cyclocross race or part of the MASS series? I don't see it on the USCF website. I assume that I will have to jump in as a Cat 5, which is pretty scary.

Most of my real competitive "racing" was duathalons. Pre-kids, I also did a lot of the Saturday morning TTs on the drive, and a lot of fast group rides (Vino Velo, Bulldog, etc.) leaving from CC where I lived at the time There used to be a nice group of duatholons you could do locally, including a series at the Navy Yard, Cooper River Park, Wilmington and a bunch of us out of a local health club did them with an eye more to beating each other than any one else. But running takes too much toll on me lately; hence my return to almost exclusively cycling, and it looks like I either enter the MASS series on the mtb, which is only a secondary activity for me, or get serious and get a license. There are some local clubs with a winter training for racers rides which look interesting to get a handle about where the best place to ease back in. For the last ten years or so, it has been fast recreational riding done with a bunch of other hackers with some regular charity rides being fairly standard. If you are looking to introduce an older newbie to racing,and are local, I would apreciate any asistance offered.

 

[Frigo's Luggage]

During February the nightime bulldog ride turns into a points race on a one kilometer loop in Fairmount Park near the Strawberry Mansion resevoir. Sounds insane. I mean who would race on open roads at night during February in that neighborhood? However, it is usually pretty safe as far as these things go and it is a blast. It is easily my favorite event of the season.

The group meets at 6:30 at the bulldog and rides up to the course together. It is a points race with a sprint every five laps and regrouping after every sprint. There is a small ring restriction during February and the big ring comes out in March. So, it is a really good way to ease back into racing, even if you are out of shape like me.

It is not a USCF sanctioned event. Here is the link: http://www.quakercitywheelmen.org/trainingrides.asp. Of course the lawyers would have me say something like "This isn't a QCW event and it is just coincidence that people show up every year."

PM me if you are looking to hook up with a club. We've got a few riders in the KOP area and have regular training rides from the bulldog every Sunday at 8:45 during the offseason.

 

[kopride]

During February the nightime bulldog ride turns into a points race on a one kilometer loop in Fairmount Park near the Strawberry Mansion resevoir. Sounds insane. I mean who would race on open roads at night during February in that neighborhood? However, it is usually pretty safe as far as these things go and it is a blast. It is easily my favorite event of the season.

The group meets at 6:30 at the bulldog and rides up to the course together. It is a points race with a sprint every five laps and regrouping after every sprint. There is a small ring restriction during February and the big ring comes out in March. So, it is a really good way to ease back into racing, even if you are out of shape like me.

It is not a USCF sanctioned event. Here is the link: http://www.quakercitywheelmen.org/trainingrides.asp. Of course the lawyers would have me say something like "This isn't a QCW event and it is just coincidence that people show up every year."

PM me if you are looking to hook up with a club. We've got a few riders in the KOP area and have regular training rides from the bulldog every Sunday at 8:45 during the offseason.

I did drop you a PM. You are calling me on my now third annual "I am going to start racing this season" Resolution so I guess it is past time to actually follow through and jump in. I am not sure that February racing on black ice in the dark is the best place to "jump in" to the sport of road racing but I have no real excuse why I should skip the Great Valley Crits in the summer. And yes, if the KOP area guys are training out here, I dropped my email on the PM, whcih you can share with any club memeber looking for a training partner. My new office is a great staging area for luch time or morning rides leaving from or near VF Park and the bike paths for other folks in our situation. Suffice it to say that my first wife never really enjoyed me leaving at 6 am for work and then coming home at 8 twice or (three times) after riding, plus 10 hours per weekend. And with duatholons, you have to leave time to run as well. I actually like my second wife so I am trying to train (and race) without creating too much hardship or sticking her with four kids alone for too long a time. She tolerated several years of youth wrestling coaching, which I dropped this year. But the key components of my training is going to have to be off hour trainer rides, commuting, or lunch time rides, and keeping door to door weekend riding down to 3 hours or less. The GV crits look like they could be a great way to check out the local racing scene without having to buy another woman a house and give her more than half my stuff.

 

[Sillyoldtwit]

Hello!

 

[kopride]

The past week, I continued with my plan to stay in the sweet spot as opposed to trying to pin it to the 98% of my FTP every 2 x 20. Saturday was an interval session where I did 2 x 20 but started the first interval at 230, then increased 5 watts every five minutes so that I finished the first one at 250. On the second, I started at 240 and worked my way up to 260 on 5 minute bumps.

Sunday was a 90 minute outside ride (55 degrees in SE PA) with a buddy where I tried not to look to closely at the PM and just enjoyed the great weather and the rare opportunity to ride without booties and a face warmer in january.

Tuesday was another 2 x 20, with the first interval at 235 and the second at 245. Again, I am trying to recharge a bit after spending the first 6 weeks of this quest trying to best my average from the prior session. I am also trying to get the last of the colds and stuffiness out of me that I have been fighting the past few weeks.

Monday and Wednesday were vanity upper body lifting sessions.

Today, I am planning another set of those sweet spot intervals similar to what I did Saturday.

Again, the goal is 275 at a February 1 hour tt, and 300 by mid summer. I can't let an old man like Tyson reach 300 before I do, but it looks like he might be more committed.

Finally, I hope everyone is enjoying the new Pumas Prada Addidas that they have been ordering from our spammer. After I jump off the trainer, the first think I want to do is slip into my new Nike Air Shox that I bought as a Hot Sell.

 

[Sillyoldtwit]

Hello again!

 

[ctgt]

The past week, I continued with my plan to stay in the sweet spot as opposed to trying to pin it to the 98% of my FTP every 2 x 20. Saturday was an interval session where I did 2 x 20 but started the first interval at 230, then increased 5 watts every five minutes so that I finished the first one at 250. On the second, I started at 240 and worked my way up to 260 on 5 minute bumps.

Sunday was a 90 minute outside ride (55 degrees in SE PA) with a buddy where I tried not to look to closely at the PM and just enjoyed the great weather and the rare opportunity to ride without booties and a face warmer in january.

Tuesday was another 2 x 20, with the first interval at 235 and the second at 245. Again, I am trying to recharge a bit after spending the first 6 weeks of this quest trying to best my average from the prior session. I am also trying to get the last of the colds and stuffiness out of me that I have been fighting the past few weeks.

Monday and Wednesday were vanity upper body lifting sessions.

Today, I am planning another set of those sweet spot intervals similar to what I did Saturday.

Again, the goal is 275 at a February 1 hour tt, and 300 by mid summer. I can't let an old man like Tyson reach 300 before I do, but it looks like he might be more committed.

Finally, I hope everyone is enjoying the new Pumas Prada Addidas that they have been ordering from our spammer. After I jump off the trainer, the first think I want to do is slip into my new Nike Air Shox that I bought as a Hot Sell.

Hello from a lurker. I have very similar numbers to you (41, 3, 250, 155) and think this thread is better than those about the Pumas or Air Shox. How is the training going?

 

[kopride]

I had a good weekend : was good for 2 x 20 (90%FTP)Fri; 1 x 40(90%)Sat; and 1 x 50(85%)Sun (Assuming a 270 FTP). I was hoping to get outdoors but couldn't squeeze the time.

 

[kopride]

Hello from a lurker. I have very similar numbers to you (41, 3, 250, 155) and think this thread is better than those about the Pumas or Air Shox. How is the training going?

Thanks. I am trying to load up on sessions since I am going on a Disney Cruise with my kids next week. I can't imagine that Mickey's boat is going to be the best place to train. Hopefully, there will be a good gym bike or some spin classes.

 

[ctgt]

I had a good weekend : was good for 2 x 20 (90%FTP)Fri; 1 x 40(90%)Sat; and 1 x 50(85%)Sun (Assuming a 270 FTP). I was hoping to get outdoors but couldn't squeeze the time.

Based on your next reply, can I assume this is part of a block before the Disney recovery, or do you have no trouble recovering from these workouts?

I'm quite motivated and believe that I have a large base to work from/on, so I'm trying to get a handle on how much/how often.

 

[kopride]

Based on your next reply, can I assume this is part of a block before the Disney recovery, or do you have no trouble recovering from these workouts?

I'm quite motivated and believe that I have a large base to work from/on, so I'm trying to get a handle on how much/how often.

I was pushing every session to the max for a few weeks there (2 x 20 @ 258-262) and did see some recovery problems. Once I started really focusing on staying within that 85-90 percent range, (at Dave Wyoming's suggestion if you scan earlier threads), I seem to have an easier time recovering from session to session. On my schedule, I am lucky to get more than 4-5 hours per week, so I don't worry as much as the guys who are riding 6 or 7 days per week about "recovering". My "recovery" days are usually outright rest days, or just some vanity upper body workout. If I am riding consecutive days like I did this weekend, I don't do any work at 100% of FTP and try and do a longer interval (40-50 minutes) at 80-85% At 85% of 270 is 230, which seems pretty managable for 50 minutes. I was watching the first half of "Prestige" which just came out on Comcast on-demand so the time was tolerable. My preference would have been to get outdoors on the road for 2 hours at 190-200 for at least one day, but you you do what you can do.

I would prefer not to "recover" on the Disney cruise. If I can grab time on spare spin bike, I should be able to do some PE intervals.

 

[ctgt]

I was pushing every session to the max for a few weeks there (2 x 20 @ 258-262) and did see some recovery problems. Once I started really focusing on staying within that 85-90 percent range, (at Dave Wyoming's suggestion if you scan earlier threads), I seem to have an easier time recovering from session to session. On my schedule, I am lucky to get more than 4-5 hours per week, so I don't worry as much as the guys who are riding 6 or 7 days per week about "recovering". My "recovery" days are usually outright rest days, or just some vanity upper body workout. If I am riding consecutive days like I did this weekend, I don't do any work at 100% of FTP and try and do a longer interval (40-50 minutes) at 80-85% At 85% of 270 is 230, which seems pretty managable for 50 minutes. I was watching the first half of "Prestige" which just came out on Comcast on-demand so the time was tolerable. My preference would have been to get outdoors on the road for 2 hours at 190-200 for at least one day, but you you do what you can do.

I would prefer not to "recover" on the Disney cruise. If I can grab time on spare spin bike, I should be able to do some PE intervals.

Really just a bump, but how's the training going and when does the cruise start?

 

[kopride]

Back from the Disney Cruise. I can't say it is conducive to improving FTP. But I did get in a 2 x 20 at 85-90 PE, a spin class, and a one hour session on a Life cycle. The spin bikes were LeMonds and were actually pretty smooth and well maintained. I also squeezed in some runs on deck followed by weight workouts. Despite these workouts, I can't say my watts/kg didn't take a real hit.

As I said before, this is a real world program. Workouts -- interupted by work commitments, kids, and family trips. It looks like the spam may have cleared.

 

[ctgt]

I was pushing every session to the max for a few weeks there (2 x 20 @ 258-262) and did see some recovery problems. Once I started really focusing on staying within that 85-90 percent range, (at Dave Wyoming's suggestion if you scan earlier threads), I seem to have an easier time recovering from session to session. On my schedule, I am lucky to get more than 4-5 hours per week, so I don't worry as much as the guys who are riding 6 or 7 days per week about "recovering". If I am riding consecutive days like I did this weekend, I don't do any work at 100% of FTP and try and do a longer interval (40-50 minutes) at 80-85% At 85% of 270 is 230, which seems pretty managable for 50 minutes. My preference would have been to get outdoors on the road for 2 hours at 190-200 for at least one day, but you you do what you can do.

You're absolutely right. I have re-estimated my FTP at 270, and working between 85-95% of that (230 - 256) for 30 minutes at a time, and up to an hour or more in a session is very manageable and reasonable to recover from. I just did 4 straight days of SST/FTP work:

2 x 28 @ ~250
1 x 20 on an exercise bike using PE
3 x 20 @ ~240 within a 2:40 endurance ride with an overall AW 210
1 x 28, 1 x 38 both @238, 1 x 18 @228 while watching the Super Bowl with my sons

Nothing special about the 8s, I was just riding specific Computrainer courses.

Since I've revised my FTP estimate upwards to equal yours, I'm even more curious to hear how your training is going.

 

[kopride]

I am lousy about regularly downloading the data of my PT, but the last week has been as follows:

Sun 2 x 20@ 220
Mon: Lifting: bench press, cable flyes, lat raises, bo rows
Wed 2 x 20@ 230
Thur:HS Curriculum Night for 13 y/o-rest
Fri: 2 x 20 @ 245
Sat: Lift: gymnist chin up routine, ov press, shrugs, sl deadlifts
Sun: 2 and 1/2 hours outdoors, very hilly, 17 mph average, but I need to download the PT for watts.

When I download tonite, I can give more accurate figures. And I can say that deadlifting before a long outdoor ride was brutal on my back. I did not realize how much it took out of the hamstrings and how much lower back comes into play.

I am trying to stay in the SST range until March when I start hitting l4-l5 intervals. If I can squeeze the time, I am thinking about increasing duration versus intensity, i.e. a few 3 x 20 @ 230 sessiions during February, as opposed to trying to just up the intensity to the 260s