Lance - To Do Ironman 2006?



Hi Radioactive Man, welcome back. Followups to rec.sport.triathlon
only.

> Seeing people jog, stagger, or otherwise struggle across the
> finish line on foot, and often alone, is anticlimatic, when
> they could instead be breaking free from a pack and sprinting
> across the line.

I don't think the finish of a triathlon is anticlimatic. The finishing
line of an Ironman is one of the most incredible human spectacles in
the world. One important reason for this is because the finishers have
completed the course by individual effort. The sport of triathlon would
not be more exciting to me if there was a sprint finish out of the
peleton to the finish.

That you think that triathlon is a boring spectator sport and a sprint
finish on the bike would create interest makes me wonder why you even
care about triathlon. Go create your own sport, with a bike sprint at
the end. You can call it the Radioactive User Man Triathlon.

Maybe lots of people will flock to it. I won't be one of them.

--
Ray
 
Roger, don't they do this already? Try googling on speed golf.
 
User <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

> What I'm proposing would solve many
> of those problems and maybe help the sport of triathlon mature into
> something as respectable as professional cycling.
>

Tough to argue with that kind of logic.
 
User <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>You know the thing that makes spectator sports, such as professional
>cycling, interesting to watch

Interesting to watch? Are you kidding? Even the TdF isn't really
interesting to watch 90% of the time.

Oh, look. There's the breakaway. Again. And again. And again.

Oh, look. There's the peleton. Again. And again. And again.

Oh, look. There's Lance. Again. And again. And again.

Oh, look. They're going through pretty French scenery. Again. And
again. And again.

Oh, look. They're going through a pretty French town with a castle.
Again. And again. And again.

Oh, look. The peleton is catching the breakaway. Again. And again. And
again.

Oh, look. It's the same sprinters winning the sprint. Again. And
again. And again.

If it wasn't for Liggett, Rolle, et al, who could stand it?

Interesting to watch? LOL.

Mike Tennent
"IronPenguin"
 
I've never crossed a finish line at a tri and thought "well that was
anticlimactic, those poor people watching must be so disappointed".

Triathlon is not, never has been and never will be, to any appreciable
degree, a spectator sport. It's a participatory sport. Trying to make
it what it isn't and was never intended to be is just trying to teach a
pig to sing.

I've never heard a cogent argument for the benefits to the AG'er of
making triathlon a viable spectator sport and if there are no benefits
the AG'er, there are no benefits to triathlon.
 
On 2005-08-10, Mike Tennent <[email protected]> wrote:
> If it wasn't for Liggett, Rolle, et al, who could stand it?
>
> Interesting to watch? LOL.
>
> Mike Tennent
> "IronPenguin"
>

I look at the tour much like I do radio broadcasts of sporting events.
The fun definitely resides in the description of what's happening during
the race. I love watching the Tour. But I love HEARING the Tour even
more. Of course, I'm a fan of radio, so it's naturally pretty to me to
listen to it.

Preston
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Mike Tennent <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Sam" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >I will call ******** on this.
> >
> >There have been tri-geeks shooting their wads over this fantasy that LA will
> >return to triathlon to bring some notoriety to the sport.
> >
>
> Bring notoriety? <chuckle> Sorry, but the IM stands on its own with
> or without Lance. (Notice which race is on network and which is on
> OLN.)
>

TDF is covered in NBC each weekend. OLN gives daily coverage. This is
about equivalent to the digest format for the IM Hawaii coverage.

> The conversations I've seen are simply an honest fascination with the
> idea. Would he be a strong enough runner to hold what lead he might
> have in T2?
>

I've heard he's a pretty good runner; he won the "Dirty Duathlon" not
long ago, and he trailed after the bike leg.

--Harold Buck


"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Tom Henderson <[email protected]> wrote:

> User <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>
> > The TDF is actually
> > many races in one, but that cannot be said for the ironman, or any
> > triathlon in its current format.
> >
>
> Actually, it's said about triathlon all of the time. Remember, AGers are
> on the same course with the pros, many are there just to see if they can
> do it, and others have specific thresholds, AG award aspirations, and IMH
> qualifications they are shooting for. I'd argue the case that very few,
> if any sporting events have as many races going on at the same time as a
> triathlon.
>


Are there more age groups in tri than a big running race? I don't think
so.

And who gives a rat's ass who wins the male 40-44 age group or female
25-29 or the Athena or Clydesdale? People--well, not many Americans--but
people really care who wins the green jersey or the polka-dot jersey or
Stage 7.

--Harold Buck


"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson
 
In article <[email protected]>,
User <[email protected]> wrote:

> Given that the bike ride is almost always the longest event, it makes
> sense that it should have rules as similar as possible to the
> traditional road race.


Thereby inflating the proportion of its importance even more?

--Harold Buck


"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson
 
In article <[email protected]>,
User <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> USAT would do well to learn these lessons and forget all that purist
> **** about "individual effort". If all you really want to get is an
> objective measure of individual ability and effort, the only way is
> put everyone in lap pools and then on stationary bikes and treadmills.
> I wonder how many sponsors and viewers that sort of event would get.
>


Biathlon is trademarked and can only be used for skiing/shooting or
running/shooting (legally, anyway). I'd imagine Tri is the same, but
can't wear to it.

--Harold Buck


"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson
 
In article <[email protected]>,
User <[email protected]> wrote:

> In essence, you have an unenforceable rule. If you want a
> draft-prohibited bike race that is truly functional, you must do as
> the elite professionals do: time trial with individual starts and a
> car with a referee behind every cyclist. Anything else, and you have
> a rule that is not enforceable and a sport that is not respectable.


Slap a GPS unit in with everyone's timing chip, write some software, and
have the drafting penalties applied automatically. Done.

--Harold Buck


"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson
 
Yea, and all it takes to put the space shuttle into orbit is some fuel a
tank and a spark. Done ;-)

I think there's a bit of simplification you're doing there. Maybe more
than a bit.

-Andrew
Boulder, CO

Harold Buck wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> User <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>In essence, you have an unenforceable rule. If you want a
>>draft-prohibited bike race that is truly functional, you must do as
>>the elite professionals do: time trial with individual starts and a
>>car with a referee behind every cyclist. Anything else, and you have
>>a rule that is not enforceable and a sport that is not respectable.
>
>
>
> Slap a GPS unit in with everyone's timing chip, write some software, and
> have the drafting penalties applied automatically. Done.
>
> --Harold Buck
>
>
> "I used to rock and roll all night,
> and party every day.
> Then it was every other day. . . ."
> -Homer J. Simpson
 
"marmadaddy" <[email protected]> wrote in news:1123681303.505388.141040
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:

> I've never crossed a finish line at a tri and thought "well that was
> anticlimactic, those poor people watching must be so disappointed".
>
> Triathlon is not, never has been and never will be, to any appreciable
> degree, a spectator sport. It's a participatory sport. Trying to make
> it what it isn't and was never intended to be is just trying to teach a
> pig to sing.
>
> I've never heard a cogent argument for the benefits to the AG'er of
> making triathlon a viable spectator sport and if there are no benefits
> the AG'er, there are no benefits to triathlon.
>
>

That was brilliant. Simple. Clearly stated. To the point. And absolutely
correct.

No way that "user" is going to get it. ;-)
 
On 8/9/05 11:30 PM, in article, "User" <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Tue, 9 Aug 2005 22:27:40 -0400, Roger Cortesi
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>>
>>> degenerates to a 10k race, etc. What I'm proposing would solve many
>>> of those problems and maybe help the sport of triathlon mature into
>>> something as respectable as professional cycling.
>>>
>>
>> WOW, that will through some gas on the thread! But I'll bite...
>>
>> Refresh my memory again... why does it need to be more "respectable"
>
> There are two types of triathletes I know: (1) those who draft at
> every opportunity, but maybe take an occasional time penalty, maybe
> even less occasional DQ, but for the most part, get by with it. (2)
> Those who vehemently **** and moan about group 1 at every opportunity,
> complain about how unfair it is, etc.
>
> In essence, you have an unenforceable rule. If you want a
> draft-prohibited bike race that is truly functional, you must do as
> the elite professionals do: time trial with individual starts and a
> car with a referee behind every cyclist. Anything else, and you have
> a rule that is not enforceable and a sport that is not respectable.

Oh, I see your point. Any sport which has a rule that is difficult to
enforce is not respectable and should be changed to eliminate the rule.

Your argument is that drafting is difficult to enforce in triathlon because
there is a disproportionate number of participants to referees. OK then,
let's try it your way and allow drafting in triathlon. While we're at it,
we'll allow outside assistance in marathons; holding in football; moving
your ball from a bad lie in golf. God knows we can't watch every golfer out
there.

Where do we stop? Let's allow throwing elbows in bike races - 'cuz we can't
watch everybody. Hell, let's even allow drugs in the TDF because it sure
takes a lot of resources to enforce that rule.

Nice argument. Wanna try again?

John
 
On 7/26/05 5:16 AM, in article, "me" <[email protected]> wrote:

> There is a rumour going round that Lance Armstrong is planning to do the
> Hawaiian Ironman in 2006. Can anyone confirm this?
>
> Roadie.

I just got back from a long vacation and have been laughing at this thread.
I find it fascinating that a bunch of newsgroup readers (myself included)
who have likely never met the man and certainly don't know him would presume
to know what is going on in Lance Armstrong's mind. I have absolutely no
idea what Lance Armstrong will do with his "free time". All I can say is
what I would like to see him do.

I'd like to be able to take him at his word. I'd like to see him go home to
Austin, spent time with his kids, and keep active and in shape. If he has
an inclination to do an IMH (for whatever reason), you know what would
really earn my respect? I'd respect him if he did his training at home in
Austin. I'd respect him if he squeezed his training in while his kids are
in school. I'd respect him if he went and signed up for an IMH qualifier as
an age grouper. I'd respect him if he qualified for his spot at IMH and
then went out there and did his best.

I couldn't care less about where he places. I couldn't care less if he wins
or not. I'd respect him enormously if he did exactly what he's been telling
everyone he intends to do.

John
 
On 2005-08-10 11:00:45 -0400, Jaybee <[email protected]> said:

> Jaybee wrote:
>> trimark wrote:
>>
>>> Roger, don't they do this already? Try googling on speed golf.
>>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_golf
>
> I am sure many of the posters here know Bob Babbit from his long
> relationship in the publishing world with triathlon. Here is an
> interesting sidelight on speed golf, San Diego area.
> http://www.extremegolf.com/


DUDE!!!
I was robbed!!!!


--
To email me, remove the greeting from my email address.

(for athletes) The Digital Athletic Log http://rogercortesi.com/athleticlog/

(for nerds) The Online Equation Editor http://rogercortesi.com/eqn/
 
"marmadaddy" <[email protected]> wrote:

>I've never crossed a finish line at a tri and thought "well that was
>anticlimactic, those poor people watching must be so disappointed".
>
>Triathlon is not, never has been and never will be, to any appreciable
>degree, a spectator sport. It's a participatory sport. Trying to make
>it what it isn't and was never intended to be is just trying to teach a
>pig to sing.
>
>I've never heard a cogent argument for the benefits to the AG'er of
>making triathlon a viable spectator sport and if there are no benefits
>the AG'er, there are no benefits to triathlon.


Amen.

Mike Tennent
"IronPenguin"
 
On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 01:15:41 GMT, John Hardt <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 8/9/05 11:30 PM, in article, "User" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 9 Aug 2005 22:27:40 -0400, Roger Cortesi
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> degenerates to a 10k race, etc. What I'm proposing would solve many
>>>> of those problems and maybe help the sport of triathlon mature into
>>>> something as respectable as professional cycling.
>>>>
>>>
>>> WOW, that will through some gas on the thread! But I'll bite...
>>>
>>> Refresh my memory again... why does it need to be more "respectable"
>>
>> There are two types of triathletes I know: (1) those who draft at
>> every opportunity, but maybe take an occasional time penalty, maybe
>> even less occasional DQ, but for the most part, get by with it. (2)
>> Those who vehemently **** and moan about group 1 at every opportunity,
>> complain about how unfair it is, etc.
>>
>> In essence, you have an unenforceable rule. If you want a
>> draft-prohibited bike race that is truly functional, you must do as
>> the elite professionals do: time trial with individual starts and a
>> car with a referee behind every cyclist. Anything else, and you have
>> a rule that is not enforceable and a sport that is not respectable.
>
>Oh, I see your point. Any sport which has a rule that is difficult to
>enforce is not respectable and should be changed to eliminate the rule.
>
>Your argument is that drafting is difficult to enforce in triathlon because
>there is a disproportionate number of participants to referees. OK then,
>let's try it your way and allow drafting in triathlon. While we're at it,
>we'll allow outside assistance in marathons; holding in football; moving
>your ball from a bad lie in golf. God knows we can't watch every golfer out
>there.

It is an arbitrary rule. When choosing between arbitrary rules, logic
and fairness dictate choosing the one that is most easily enforced.

>
>Where do we stop? Let's allow throwing elbows in bike races - 'cuz we can't
>watch everybody. Hell, let's even allow drugs in the TDF because it sure
>takes a lot of resources to enforce that rule.
>
Most sports have random testing for drugs. How do you propose to have
random testing for drafting?

>Nice argument. Wanna try again?
>
>John
 
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