Fruit vs the root....

Quoted message said:

"Ilsa9" <[email hidden]> llsa the big cuddly tiger wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

llsa thinks it's ok to use alternative therapies, but not ok to make any
claims about them,

You are correct on the first part and woefully misguided on the second.

The

Quoted message said:

plural of anecdote is NOT data. People should take anecdotes for what

they

Quoted message said:

are, unverifiable STORIES. They may be useful in bringing methods to

one's

Quoted message said:

attention, but are not compelling enough by themselves to make a sound
decision.

Data is data whether it's right or wrong or nothing can be concluded from
it.

Yes, but data from which no conclusions can be drawn is pretty damn useless,
don'cha know?

Quoted message said:

If 100 people say noni juice cured their hepatitis of the big toe then
that's a place to begin looking.

I thank you for making that exact comment. IF 100 people said that they had
hepatitis (Liver Inflamation) in their big toe, then we know the anecdote is
horseshit. Even if they sincerely believe it, it is still false. Our vast
knowledge of anatomy, chemistry, and Basic physiology allow us to conclude,
quite rightly, that there is folderol.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in fact decent people don't use them at all (in her own
words).

Decent people do not become MLM spammers. Decent people do not promote
disproven notions such as auto-toxicity, anti-amalgamism, or Vitamin C

uber

Quoted message said:

alles.

Vitamin C is da bomb and you know it! Try telling Dr Rath otherwise.

Ok, that's a pretty colorful piece of reparte'. I appreciate such things, but
Rath & Pauling are pretty short on proof. Vitamin C is a good thing, but lets
not beatify it.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

There's a glaring problem with her logic there, how would she know about
these alternatives if she didn't read any claims or buy any

'testimonials'

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

about them?

How about the NIH statement on Acupuncture? Eh? How 'bout dem apples,

Anth?

Quoted message said:

The NIH endorses Acupuncture, but not YOUR delusions of scurvy being a

genetic

Quoted message said:

disorder.

If you dig deep enough a terrible lot of mainstream is unproven but
accepted..

I notice you didn't address the NIH's (less than glowing) endorsement of
Acupuncture.

If you mean things like using a tongue depressor or applying direct pressure to
wounds, sure. If you mean that everything isn't tested in randomized,
double-binded trials, you are correct. Not everything CAN be tested like that,
but most everything that reasonably can (such as meds) is.

Alt-meds are often especially appropriate for such trials...and they seldom if
ever are done...even less seldom are they positve....even less seldom are those
positive studies replicated.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

SPLOOOOOOORF!!

Yup, that's the sound of the MHA faithful laughing AT you and your ilk,

not

Quoted message said:

laughing with you.

And no doubt most of clan med - quick ring the batphones!

Actually, there are only 3 of us. Peter Bowditch is the only who is an actual
person. The rest of the MHA faithful, random skeptics, and Iron Justice, are
all done by me and some guy named Rick...or Reg. What with corporate
downsizings and the popularity of alt medicine, the entire pharmacuetical
industry can only afford 3 people.

Sad, that.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Anth

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

SPLOOOOOOORF!!

Is the sound of llsa choking on her bagel :o)
Anth

Actually, I cut and pasted that from D.C. Sessions' headers under
"Organization". And, for those keeping score, I greatly prefer a double
sausage egg mcmuffin with bacon to a bagel. Oh, and a large coffee with lots
of artificial sweetner.

"Ilsa9" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Ilsa9" <[email hidden]> llsa the big cuddly tiger wrote in

message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

>llsa thinks it's ok to use alternative therapies, but not ok to make

any

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>claims about them,

You are correct on the first part and woefully misguided on the second.

The

Quoted message said:

plural of anecdote is NOT data. People should take anecdotes for what

they

Quoted message said:

are, unverifiable STORIES. They may be useful in bringing methods to

one's

Quoted message said:

attention, but are not compelling enough by themselves to make a sound
decision.

Data is data whether it's right or wrong or nothing can be concluded from
it.

Yes, but data from which no conclusions can be drawn is pretty damn

useless,

Quoted message said:

don'cha know?

Of course, but some people can't wait for the double blind trials.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If 100 people say noni juice cured their hepatitis of the big toe then
that's a place to begin looking.

I thank you for making that exact comment. IF 100 people said that they

had

Quoted message said:

hepatitis (Liver Inflamation) in their big toe, then we know the anecdote

is

Quoted message said:

horseshit. Even if they sincerely believe it, it is still false. Our

vast

Quoted message said:

knowledge of anatomy, chemistry, and Basic physiology allow us to

conclude,

Quoted message said:

quite rightly, that there is folderol.

Stating the obvious?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> in fact decent people don't use them at all (in her own
>words).

Decent people do not become MLM spammers. Decent people do not promote
disproven notions such as auto-toxicity, anti-amalgamism, or Vitamin C

uber

Quoted message said:

alles.

Vitamin C is da bomb and you know it! Try telling Dr Rath otherwise.

Quoted message said:

Ok, that's a pretty colorful piece of reparte'. I appreciate such things,

but

Quoted message said:

Rath & Pauling are pretty short on proof. Vitamin C is a good thing, but

lets

Quoted message said:

not beatify it.

They are low on funding also, and high on peoples hate list.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>There's a glaring problem with her logic there, how would she know

about

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>these alternatives if she didn't read any claims or buy any

'testimonials'

Quoted message said:

>about them?

How about the NIH statement on Acupuncture? Eh? How 'bout dem apples,

Anth?

Quoted message said:

The NIH endorses Acupuncture, but not YOUR delusions of scurvy being a

genetic

Quoted message said:

disorder.

If you dig deep enough a terrible lot of mainstream is unproven but
accepted..

I notice you didn't address the NIH's (less than glowing) endorsement of
Acupuncture.

Not sure about acupuncture, never used it never will.

Quoted message said:

If you mean things like using a tongue depressor or applying direct

pressure to

Quoted message said:

wounds, sure. If you mean that everything isn't tested in randomized,
double-binded trials, you are correct. Not everything CAN be tested like

that,

Quoted message said:

but most everything that reasonably can (such as meds) is.

Certain treatments can't.

Quoted message said:

Alt-meds are often especially appropriate for such trials...and they

seldom if

Quoted message said:

ever are done...even less seldom are they positve....even less seldom are

those

Quoted message said:

positive studies replicated.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>SPLOOOOOOORF!!

Yup, that's the sound of the MHA faithful laughing AT you and your ilk,

not

Quoted message said:

laughing with you.

And no doubt most of clan med - quick ring the batphones!

Actually, there are only 3 of us. Peter Bowditch is the only who is an

actual

Quoted message said:

person. The rest of the MHA faithful, random skeptics, and Iron Justice,

are

Quoted message said:

all done by me and some guy named Rick...or Reg. What with corporate
downsizings and the popularity of alt medicine, the entire pharmacuetical
industry can only afford 3 people.

Shame, why don't each of you take a pay cut, hire another person and give
him your scripts?

Quoted message said:

Sad, that.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>Anth

Indeed

Quoted message said:

"Ilsa9" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Ilsa9" <[email hidden]> llsa the big cuddly tiger wrote in

message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

news:[email hidden]...
> >llsa thinks it's ok to use alternative therapies, but not ok to make

any

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> >claims about them,
>
> You are correct on the first part and woefully misguided on the second.
The
> plural of anecdote is NOT data. People should take anecdotes for what
they
> are, unverifiable STORIES. They may be useful in bringing methods to
one's
> attention, but are not compelling enough by themselves to make a sound
> decision.

Data is data whether it's right or wrong or nothing can be concluded from
it.

Yes, but data from which no conclusions can be drawn is pretty damn

useless,

Quoted message said:

don'cha know?

Of course, but some people can't wait for the double blind trials.

And nobody can rely on unreliable data nor from inconclusive data.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If 100 people say noni juice cured their hepatitis of the big toe then
that's a place to begin looking.

I thank you for making that exact comment. IF 100 people said that they

had

Quoted message said:

hepatitis (Liver Inflamation) in their big toe, then we know the anecdote

is

Quoted message said:

horseshit. Even if they sincerely believe it, it is still false. Our

vast

Quoted message said:

knowledge of anatomy, chemistry, and Basic physiology allow us to

conclude,

Quoted message said:

quite rightly, that there is folderol.

Stating the obvious?

Look, Anth, when somebody makes an claim like the one above, it doesn't require
a massive clinical trial to test it. To advocate testing such things puts you
into the territory of Solipsist, Sodophile, and Sodomite, John "Sodomy" Bain.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > in fact decent people don't use them at all (in her own
> >words).
>
> Decent people do not become MLM spammers. Decent people do not promote
> disproven notions such as auto-toxicity, anti-amalgamism, or Vitamin C
uber
> alles.

Vitamin C is da bomb and you know it! Try telling Dr Rath otherwise.

Quoted message said:

Ok, that's a pretty colorful piece of reparte'. I appreciate such things,

but

Quoted message said:

Rath & Pauling are pretty short on proof. Vitamin C is a good thing, but

lets

Quoted message said:

not beatify it.

They are low on funding also, and high on peoples hate list.

Pauling is dead, so I would assume it would be ill-advised to fund him. As for
Rath, well, the US gov't has plenty of easy money for anyone clever enough to
write up a proposal.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> >There's a glaring problem with her logic there, how would she know

about

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> >these alternatives if she didn't read any claims or buy any
'testimonials'
> >about them?
>
> How about the NIH statement on Acupuncture? Eh? How 'bout dem apples,
Anth?
> The NIH endorses Acupuncture, but not YOUR delusions of scurvy being a
genetic
> disorder.

If you dig deep enough a terrible lot of mainstream is unproven but
accepted..

I notice you didn't address the NIH's (less than glowing) endorsement of
Acupuncture.

Not sure about acupuncture, never used it never will.

Interesting. But, hey, what the hell does that have to do with your original
point about me and alternative med? I use an alt-med. Frankly, I use a few,
massage, herbs, chiropractic, & acupizzle.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If you mean things like using a tongue depressor or applying direct

pressure to

Quoted message said:

wounds, sure. If you mean that everything isn't tested in randomized,
double-binded trials, you are correct. Not everything CAN be tested like

that,

Quoted message said:

but most everything that reasonably can (such as meds) is.

Certain treatments can't.

Yeah, but homeopathy can and so can supplements, et al.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Alt-meds are often especially appropriate for such trials...and they

seldom if

Quoted message said:

ever are done...even less seldom are they positve....even less seldom are

those

Quoted message said:

positive studies replicated.

Quoted message said:

> >SPLOOOOOOORF!!
>
> Yup, that's the sound of the MHA faithful laughing AT you and your ilk,
not
> laughing with you.

And no doubt most of clan med - quick ring the batphones!

Actually, there are only 3 of us. Peter Bowditch is the only who is an

actual

Quoted message said:

person. The rest of the MHA faithful, random skeptics, and Iron Justice,

are

Quoted message said:

all done by me and some guy named Rick...or Reg. What with corporate
downsizings and the popularity of alt medicine, the entire pharmacuetical
industry can only afford 3 people.

Shame, why don't each of you take a pay cut, hire another person and give
him your scripts?

Its not that simple, Anth. You see, the pharmacuetical industrial complex was
only able to hoard but so much Vitamin C, N*ni Juice and (Contaminated) Ginseng
for our personal use. To allow another person into the loop would further
deplete our stockpile of unbelievably essential suppliments. Without an
adequate supply, what would happen to our Purity of Essence????!?!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Sad, that.

Quoted message said:

> >Anth

Indeed

Yes, indeed. Our company picnic was a total fiasco. Have you ever seen a
three-legged sack race with just 3 people?

"Ilsa9" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

And nobody can rely on unreliable data nor from inconclusive data.

They can't rely on it, but some have and are now well.