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Fruit vs the root....

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
27 September 2003
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2 October 2003
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Dave
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  1. "Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Orac is wrong and by his argument, a genetic disease which affects 100% of
    the population is no longer a disease, it's the norm a 'trait.'
    Anth

    Correct. Genetic makeup found in 100% of the population is not a
    "disease", but rather a trait shared by all the members of that
    species. It's part of our DNA that we cannot synthesize vitamin C de
    novo; it's not a disease, because we never had that ability in the
    first place.

    The fact that human beings can't fly does not mean that we are
    "wing-deficient": it is a trait of our species as, among other
    things, we are land mammals.

    Mark, MD

    P.S. Didn't we have this discussion not too long ago?

  2. Quoted message said:

    Animals don't synthesise food, some animals synthesise vitamin c, we don't.
    Anth

    Animals don't synthesize oxygen, some animals can breath underwater, we don't.
    So, is not having gills a genetic disorder?

    Quoted message said:


    "David Wright" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Anth said:

    http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/s1/scurvy.asp

    ...does not say scurvy is a genetic disorder.

    Your contention makes no more sense than saying "starvation is a
    genetic disorder because we can't synthesize our own food from
    light."

  3. Quoted message said:

    No I am not wrong I am correct
    It is seldom that I am wrong, but I am right again
    Anth

    What you are is dazed & confused; credulous & obtuse.

    Quoted message said:

    "David Wright" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Anth said:

    We don't synthesise vitamin c because we have a defective gene, and


    there's

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    evidence that the gene was there.

    No, we have a mutated gene, as do virtually all primates. "Defective"
    is simply a value judgement on your part, and a silly one at that.
    Our ancestors lost the ability to make vitamin C, but it didn't matter
    because they had diets containing large amounts of C.

    The fact that you don't like this does not make it a "defect" any more
    than our inability to synthesize other vitamins. After all, they're
    vitamins by definition, because we can't synthesize them.

    Go ahead and whine about this all you want. You're still wrong.

    -- David Wright

  4. Quoted message said:

    scurvy _is_ a genetic disorder.
    And maybe your comment on 'getting laid' parallels your own inadequacy in
    life?
    Anth

    Dude, I get hit on more often than you post about vitamin C.
    You'd be lucky to get a gal like me to let you buy me a drink.

    Quoted message said:

    "Ilsa9" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Obviously you aren't and that lack of a satisfactory sex life has left you


    a

    Quoted message said:

    deranged ranter. Get laid, get over it and get it straight, Anth, Scurvy


    is

    Quoted message said:

    NOT a genetic disorder anymore than not being a hermaphrodite.


  5. Don't flatter yourself.
    Anth

    "Ilsa9" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    scurvy _is_ a genetic disorder.
    And maybe your comment on 'getting laid' parallels your own inadequacy in
    life?
    Anth

    Dude, I get hit on more often than you post about vitamin C.
    You'd be lucky to get a gal like me to let you buy me a drink.

    Quoted message said:

    "Ilsa9" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Obviously you aren't and that lack of a satisfactory sex life has left


    you

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    a

    Quoted message said:

    deranged ranter. Get laid, get over it and get it straight, Anth,


    Scurvy

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    is

    Quoted message said:

    NOT a genetic disorder anymore than not being a hermaphrodite.


  6. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Anth said:

    ..and furthermore since I posted links to an encyclopaedia reference that
    quotes scurvy as being a genetic disorder shows your ignorance.

    The article said nothing of the sort. You're losing it, Anth. It
    says that scurvy is a deficiency disorder.

    (If you believe the article *did* say that scurvy is a genetic
    disorder, suppose you quote me the text.)

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
    These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
    "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
    were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

  7. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Mark said:

    "Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Orac is wrong and by his argument, a genetic disease which affects 100% of
    the population is no longer a disease, it's the norm a 'trait.'
    Anth

    Correct. Genetic makeup found in 100% of the population is not a
    "disease", but rather a trait shared by all the members of that
    species. It's part of our DNA that we cannot synthesize vitamin C de
    novo; it's not a disease, because we never had that ability in the
    first place.

    The fact that human beings can't fly does not mean that we are
    "wing-deficient": it is a trait of our species as, among other
    things, we are land mammals.

    Mark, MD

    P.S. Didn't we have this discussion not too long ago?

    We did. Anth is fairly stupid, but he's also persistent.

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
    These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
    "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
    were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

  8. Anth said:

    Let me clarify this - more 'word games' for the cry babies...

    Lets make these assumptions :-

    (1) scurvy is a disease
    (2) vitamin c either cures this disease or it doesn't.

    If vitamin c cured the disease, we could stop the treatment and the disease
    would not come back. This doesn't happen.

    That is idiocy.

    Aribert Deckers
    --
    POLICE - POLIZEI - POLITIE - POLICIA

    http://www.ariplex.com/ama/amapolis.htm

  9. Anth said:

    scurvy _is_ a genetic disorder.

    That is idiocy.

    Aribert Deckers
    --
    POLICE - POLIZEI - POLITIE - POLICIA

    http://www.ariplex.com/ama/amapolis.htm

  10. Orac said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Anth said:

    It's a defect when it's responsible for disease, you should know that from
    your own cancer research.

    That has to be the lamest thing you've said on this issue yet. (You're
    getting desperate, aren't you?)

    Here, I'll repeat it for you: If 100% of the human population lacks the
    gene for the enzyme necessary to make ascorbic acid, it is NOT a genetic
    defect or disorder.

    It is much worse, dear Mr. Orac. 100 percent of the population are not
    able to lie in the sun and to do photosynthesis.

    Regards,

    Aribert Deckers
    --
    POLICE - POLIZEI - POLITIE - POLICIA

    http://www.ariplex.com/ama/amapolis.htm

  11. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Anth said:

    A disorder is a disorder be it 100% 50% 10% be it metabolic nutritional or
    whatever.

    No it isn't, and your constant repeating it does not make it so.

    Quoted message said:


    You'll be telling me that the current cancer trends are leading to a trait
    for diseased humans next....

    No, because not 100% of humans get cancer.

    Quoted message said:

    (Of course you pass that off as irrelevant because it's not the case yet.)

    No, I pass it off as irrelevant because it IS irrelevant--just as
    irrelevant as your trying to define the lack of the necessary enzyme as
    a "disorder" or "deficiency" because other mammalian species happen to
    have that particular enzyme and hence never get scurvy and because there
    is evidence that ancestors to [censored] sapiens may have had that enzyme
    sometime in the distant past but lost it during evolution.

    Quoted message said:

    The fact is that you quote scurvy as not being a disorder, but a trait which
    it is a metabolic disorder.

    No, scurvy is a specific disease caused by the lack of a specific
    nutritional component that the human body needs to maintain its normal
    physiological functioning, namely ascorbic acid (a.k.a. vitamin C).
    Becasue 100% of humans lack the enzyme to make ascorbic acid, 100% of
    humans need a certain minimal amount of vitamin C in their diet. Because
    100% of humans lack the enzyme, in humans

    Quoted message said:


    Here's more proof :-
    By definition, a disorder is a lack of order, thus scurvy (the end result of
    a metabolic disorder) is caused by an imbalance.

    That is not "proof." That is sophistry based on playing with semantics.
    --
    Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
    |
    |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
    | inconvenience me with questions?"

  12. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Happy Oyster said:
    Anth said:

    scurvy _is_ a genetic disorder.

    That is idiocy.

    Heh heh. You said it far more succinctly than I did. ;-)
    --
    Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
    |
    |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
    | inconvenience me with questions?"

  13. In article <[email hidden]>,

    (David Wright) said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Mark said:

    "Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Orac is wrong and by his argument, a genetic disease which affects 100% of
    the population is no longer a disease, it's the norm a 'trait.'
    Anth

    Correct. Genetic makeup found in 100% of the population is not a
    "disease", but rather a trait shared by all the members of that
    species. It's part of our DNA that we cannot synthesize vitamin C de
    novo; it's not a disease, because we never had that ability in the
    first place.

    The fact that human beings can't fly does not mean that we are
    "wing-deficient": it is a trait of our species as, among other
    things, we are land mammals.

    Mark, MD

    P.S. Didn't we have this discussion not too long ago?

    We did. Anth is fairly stupid, but he's also persistent.

    Anth's perseveration in the face of being shown to be wrong again and
    again makes me wonder about his mental state.
    --
    Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
    |
    |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
    | inconvenience me with questions?"

  14. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Happy Oyster said:
    Orac said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Anth said:

    It's a defect when it's responsible for disease, you should know that from
    your own cancer research.

    That has to be the lamest thing you've said on this issue yet. (You're
    getting desperate, aren't you?)

    Here, I'll repeat it for you: If 100% of the human population lacks the
    gene for the enzyme necessary to make ascorbic acid, it is NOT a genetic
    defect or disorder.

    It is much worse, dear Mr. Orac. 100 percent of the population are not
    able to lie in the sun and to do photosynthesis.

    I'm not so sure that Anth can't. His level of reasoning on this matter
    is rather plant-like.
    --
    Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
    |
    |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
    | inconvenience me with questions?"

  15. There's no point arguing with you Orac because it's clear that you as closed
    minded as they get.
    Anth

    "Orac" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Anth said:

    No I am not 'getting it'

    That is painfully obvious.
    --
    Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
    |
    |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
    | inconvenience me with questions?"

  16. The thing is with you, is that you believe what mainstream tells you.
    Vitamin saturation is x mg are whatever.
    If you accepted Stone's/Pauling's/Rath's work you would see that it's
    realistically impossible to get enough Vitamin C from our diets
    in the quantities that animals manufacture, and thus strive off the many
    diseases caused by it's deficiency in our bodies.
    That's the real issue here - you can't accept Pauling's/Rath/Stone's work
    because that would make you an outcast with your 'medicine clan'

    Quoted message said:

    Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."

    Anth

  17. "Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    There's no point arguing with you Orac because it's clear that you as


    closed

    Quoted message said:

    minded as they get.
    Anth

    You finally noticed, eh

    Quoted message said:

    "Orac" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Anth said:

    No I am not 'getting it'

    That is painfully obvious.

  18. http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/196x/stone-i-acta_genet_med_et_gemell-1966-v15-p345.htm
    Scurvy, now regarded as a nutritional disorder due to the lack of the trace
    food constituent, vitamin C, is shown to be the end result of a typical
    genetic disease. This genetic disease syndrome has been named
    Hypoascorbemia. Its primary cause is the hereditary lack of - or defect in -
    the gene controlling the synthesis of the enzyme, L-gulonolactone oxidase.
    This is a mammalian liver enzyme, the last one in the series for converting
    glucose into ascorbic acid. Man is one of the few mammals that lacks this
    enzyme and hence is unable to synthesize his own ascorbic acid. The gene
    defect occurred during the course of evolution by a conditional lethal
    mutation. The replacement of the present vitamin C theory regarding the
    etiology of scurvy by this genetic concept gives important new viewpoints to
    the quantitative aspects of ascorbic acid in human physiology and also
    provides new rationales for the use of high levels of ascorbic acid in
    normal physiology and in the therapy of clinical entities other than scurvy.

    "Orac" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Anth said:

    No I am not 'getting it'

    That is painfully obvious.
    --
    Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
    |
    |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
    | inconvenience me with questions?"

  19. "Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    The thing is with you, is that you believe what mainstream tells you.
    Vitamin saturation is x mg are whatever.
    If you accepted Stone's/Pauling's/Rath's work you would see that it's
    realistically impossible to get enough Vitamin C from our diets
    in the quantities that animals manufacture, and thus strive off the many
    diseases caused by it's deficiency in our bodies.
    That's the real issue here - you can't accept Pauling's/Rath/Stone's work
    because that would make you an outcast with your 'medicine clan'

    You finally noticed, eh?

  20. Quoted message said:

    There's no point arguing with you Orac because it's clear that you as closed
    minded as they get.
    Anth

    Anth, you seem to think the issue is one that is debateable. It isn't. It's
    not the matter of someone having had their OPINION established as the
    "conventional line". Nope.

    That fact that you think you have overturned a basic premise of medicine is
    quite amusing in some respects, but narcissism ill becomes you.

    Quoted message said:


    "Orac" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Anth said:

    No I am not 'getting it'

    That is painfully obvious.
    --
    Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."

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