Fruit vs the root....

Quoted message said:

Anth, you seem to think the issue is one that is debateable. It isn't.

It's

Quoted message said:

not the matter of someone having had their OPINION established as the
"conventional line". Nope.

Quoted message said:

That fact that you think you have overturned a basic premise of medicine

is

Quoted message said:

quite amusing in some respects, but narcissism ill becomes you.

Ground control to miss llsa, Oh please, come of your high horse and candle
those ears!

Neither was scurvy debatable for hundreds of years, and now it's scurvy in
the form of 'atherosclerosis.'
I see a pattern, shame, I'm not going to live long enough to see it put
right. Ah well......
Anth

"Ilsa9" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

There's no point arguing with you Orac because it's clear that you as

closed

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

minded as they get.
Anth

Anth, you seem to think the issue is one that is debateable. It isn't.

It's

Quoted message said:

not the matter of someone having had their OPINION established as the
"conventional line". Nope.

That fact that you think you have overturned a basic premise of medicine

is

Quoted message said:

quite amusing in some respects, but narcissism ill becomes you.

Quoted message said:

"Orac" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
"Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote:

> No I am not 'getting it'

That is painfully obvious.
--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."

"Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Orac" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

snip

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

There is broad agreement on many general principles in science, and you
routinely post assertions that run counter to these well-accepted and
well-documented principles.

Well-accepted? By whom? Besides you of course.
Everything I post is well-accepted by 90% of the world's population.

Do you speak for the wor;d's population, or are you just typing without
thinking? If you do, can you post your authorization to do so?

Quoted message said:

Just because YOU think you know it all, has no power and precious
little influence on the world.

You are fast becoming one of the more prolific self-referential posters on
all of usenet.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Meanwhile the real world is passing you by and you
remain oblivious to it. If everyone ate ginseng your "discussion"
would become irrelevant because scurvy would no longer exist.

Really? What is your evidence for this statement. While you're at it,
perhaps you can tell us the vitamin C content of ginseng.

That is important only in the tiny world you inhabit.

It is called a fact. You seem to avoid them. Is that a side effect of
ginseng?

He was the same with proteolytic enzymes, adamant that they are not
absorbed.
I even cited references that showed that a papaya enzyme present in the
blood after ingestion.
He couldn't find the article - or so he claimed.
You can't argue with him, it's pointless.
Anth

"Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

There's no point arguing with you Orac because it's clear that you as

closed

Quoted message said:

minded as they get.
Anth

You finally noticed, eh

Quoted message said:

"Orac" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
"Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote:

> No I am not 'getting it'

That is painfully obvious.

Correction : pineapple enzyme.
Anth

In article <[email hidden]>,

Anth said:

http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/196x/stone-i-acta_genet_med_et_gemell-1
966-v15-p345.htm

[Snip]

Repetition of your [censored] does not make it any less [censored].

[Snip]

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"

In article <[email hidden]>,

Anth said:

There's no point arguing with you Orac because it's clear that you as closed
minded as they get.

LOL! Then why do you keep trying so hard?

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"

Quoted message said:

Neither was scurvy debatable for hundreds of years, and now it's scurvy in
the form of 'atherosclerosis.'

You have totally lost touch with reality.

Quoted message said:

I see a pattern,

Yes, its in the DSM-IV, and you need to be treated for it.

shame, I'm not going to live long enough to see it put

Quoted message said:

right.

Don't give up on yourself, with appropriate psychotherapy, you might not end up
like Jan, Spamming Dave, John Scudmore, and worst of all, the solipsist you
most favor, JBain.

Quoted message said:

Ah well......
Anth

In article <[email hidden]>,

Anth said:

He was the same with proteolytic enzymes, adamant that they are not
absorbed.

Oh, they're absorbed, just not as intact proteins, with very few
exceptions.

Quoted message said:

I even cited references that showed that a papaya enzyme present in the
blood after ingestion.

If I recall correctly, one of your references was actually interesting,
but didn't prove therapeutic effect.

Quoted message said:

He couldn't find the article - or so he claimed.

No, you cited several articles, most of which were quite old, a couple
of which I couldn't find.

See:

http://www.google.com/groups?q=Anth+enzyme+absorption+author:orac&hl=en&l
r=&ie=UTF-8&selm=orac-D27CEE.11033610082003%40host9.newsfeeds.com&rnum=1

For instance, I couldn't find the Kleine et al article, despite several
searches. I tried again today. I still couldn't find it. For instance, a
search on the name produced no such article. I even tried exact searches
on the title using EndNote. Did you misspell something, perhaps? Perhaps
if you listed some of the other authors...

As for the other articles, I already commented on them. I've done far
more to look up articles that might contradict my opinions than YOU ever
have and without a doubt I've done far more to consider alternative
points of view than Dave the Glowlife spammer ever has in this newsgroup.

Quoted message said:

You can't argue with him, it's pointless.

You must be a master of the pointless, then, because you rarely let a
single post by me that contradicts one of your assertions go without a
response.

I go far more out of my way to try to look at the evidence cited by
people like you than you ever go to look at evidence that might
contradict your preconceived notions.

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Ilsa9) said:

Quoted message said:

There's no point arguing with you Orac because it's clear that you as closed
minded as they get.
Anth

Anth, you seem to think the issue is one that is debateable. It isn't. It's
not the matter of someone having had their OPINION established as the
"conventional line". Nope.

That fact that you think you have overturned a basic premise of medicine is
quite amusing in some respects, but narcissism ill becomes you.

The problem with people like "Anth" is that they lack discrimination and
critical thinking skills. They seem to think that their OPINIONS should
be considered to be equal to scientific principles based on decades of
experimentation and evidence.

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"

In article <[email hidden]>,

Anth said:

The thing is with you, is that you believe what mainstream tells you.

You mean the way you believe everything a bunch of alties tell you?

Quoted message said:

Vitamin saturation is x mg are whatever.
If you accepted Stone's/Pauling's/Rath's work you would see that it's
realistically impossible to get enough Vitamin C from our diets
in the quantities that animals manufacture, and thus strive off the many
diseases caused by it's deficiency in our bodies.

That is only if you accept their contention that megadoses of vitamin C
do anything. Unfortunately, clinical research has shown that megadoses
of vitamin C do not do what Pauling claimed. For a summary (I know the
source will enrage you, but who cares?):

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/pauling.html

Quoted message said:

That's the real issue here - you can't accept Pauling's/Rath/Stone's work
because that would make you an outcast with your 'medicine clan'

No, I don't accept it because the existing scientific evidence
contradicts it. You, I note, haven't shown me any evidence that might
change my mind--or any evidence at all, actually.

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"

That is wrong, I believe _some_ of what I read.
Anth

"Orac" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Anth said:

The thing is with you, is that you believe what mainstream tells you.

You mean the way you believe everything a bunch of alties tell you?

Quoted message said:

Vitamin saturation is x mg are whatever.
If you accepted Stone's/Pauling's/Rath's work you would see that it's
realistically impossible to get enough Vitamin C from our diets
in the quantities that animals manufacture, and thus strive off the many
diseases caused by it's deficiency in our bodies.

That is only if you accept their contention that megadoses of vitamin C
do anything. Unfortunately, clinical research has shown that megadoses
of vitamin C do not do what Pauling claimed. For a summary (I know the
source will enrage you, but who cares?):

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/pauling.html

Quoted message said:

That's the real issue here - you can't accept Pauling's/Rath/Stone's

work

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

because that would make you an outcast with your 'medicine clan'

No, I don't accept it because the existing scientific evidence
contradicts it. You, I note, haven't shown me any evidence that might
change my mind--or any evidence at all, actually.

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"

In article <[email hidden]>,

Anth said:

That is wrong, I believe _some_ of what I read.

OK, then. Tell us an alternative medicine therapy that you DON'T believe
to have any value.

Quoted message said:

"Orac" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Anth said:

The thing is with you, is that you believe what mainstream tells you.

You mean the way you believe everything a bunch of alties tell you?

Quoted message said:

Vitamin saturation is x mg are whatever.
If you accepted Stone's/Pauling's/Rath's work you would see that it's
realistically impossible to get enough Vitamin C from our diets
in the quantities that animals manufacture, and thus strive off the many
diseases caused by it's deficiency in our bodies.

That is only if you accept their contention that megadoses of vitamin C
do anything. Unfortunately, clinical research has shown that megadoses
of vitamin C do not do what Pauling claimed. For a summary (I know the
source will enrage you, but who cares?):

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/pauling.html

Quoted message said:

That's the real issue here - you can't accept Pauling's/Rath/Stone's

work

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

because that would make you an outcast with your 'medicine clan'

No, I don't accept it because the existing scientific evidence
contradicts it. You, I note, haven't shown me any evidence that might
change my mind--or any evidence at all, actually.

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"

"Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ ....

You take medical advice from that clown!!! Oh, wait, he is really a dancer:
http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/kukli/kukli.htm

If you do a http://groups.google.com search on the owner of that webpage,
you will note his medical opinions are not to be trusted.

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Anth said:

He was the same with proteolytic enzymes, adamant that they are not
absorbed.

Oh, they're absorbed, just not as intact proteins, with very few
exceptions.

Quoted message said:

I even cited references that showed that a papaya enzyme present in the
blood after ingestion.

If I recall correctly, one of your references was actually interesting,
but didn't prove therapeutic effect.

Quoted message said:

He couldn't find the article - or so he claimed.

No, you cited several articles, most of which were quite old, a couple
of which I couldn't find.

Try using this search site, it is supposed to keep a record of everything that
is published to the web.

http://www.archive.org/

<snip>

[email hidden] (Ilsa9) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Then by that definition vitamin c would be a drug also.
Anth

Only if you consider scurvy a disease! *****SPLORFFFFFF*******!

Hey IIsa9, tour posting on herbal knowledge is like 'child-play'.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Orac" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dave is probably too blinded by his beliefs to realize that if ginseng
can have a postive effect in diabetics, it probably has pharmaceutical
activities and is therefore a drug, not strictly a food.

llsa thinks it's ok to use alternative therapies, but not ok to make any
claims about them, in fact decent people don't use them at all (in her own
words).
There's a glaring problem with her logic there, how would she know about
these alternatives if she didn't read any claims or buy any 'testimonials'
about them?
SPLOOOOOOORF!!
Anth

"yansimon52" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (Ilsa9) wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Then by that definition vitamin c would be a drug also.
Anth

Only if you consider scurvy a disease! *****SPLORFFFFFF*******!

Hey IIsa9, tour posting on herbal knowledge is like 'child-play'.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Orac" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> Dave is probably too blinded by his beliefs to realize that if

ginseng

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> can have a postive effect in diabetics, it probably has

pharmaceutical

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> activities and is therefore a drug, not strictly a food.
>

Quoted message said:

llsa thinks it's ok to use alternative therapies, but not ok to make any
claims about them,

You are correct on the first part and woefully misguided on the second. The
plural of anecdote is NOT data. People should take anecdotes for what they
are, unverifiable STORIES. They may be useful in bringing methods to one's
attention, but are not compelling enough by themselves to make a sound
decision.

Quoted message said:

in fact decent people don't use them at all (in her own
words).

Decent people do not become MLM spammers. Decent people do not promote
disproven notions such as auto-toxicity, anti-amalgamism, or Vitamin C uber
alles.

Quoted message said:

There's a glaring problem with her logic there, how would she know about
these alternatives if she didn't read any claims or buy any 'testimonials'
about them?

How about the NIH statement on Acupuncture? Eh? How 'bout dem apples, Anth?
The NIH endorses Acupuncture, but not YOUR delusions of scurvy being a genetic
disorder.

Quoted message said:

SPLOOOOOOORF!!

Yup, that's the sound of the MHA faithful laughing AT you and your ilk, not
laughing with you.

Quoted message said:

Anth

"Ilsa9" <[email hidden]> llsa the big cuddly tiger wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

llsa thinks it's ok to use alternative therapies, but not ok to make any
claims about them,

You are correct on the first part and woefully misguided on the second.

The

Quoted message said:

plural of anecdote is NOT data. People should take anecdotes for what

they

Quoted message said:

are, unverifiable STORIES. They may be useful in bringing methods to

one's

Quoted message said:

attention, but are not compelling enough by themselves to make a sound
decision.

Data is data whether it's right or wrong or nothing can be concluded from
it.
If 100 people say noni juice cured their hepatitis of the big toe then
that's a place to begin looking.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in fact decent people don't use them at all (in her own
words).

Decent people do not become MLM spammers. Decent people do not promote
disproven notions such as auto-toxicity, anti-amalgamism, or Vitamin C

uber

Quoted message said:

alles.

Vitamin C is da bomb and you know it! Try telling Dr Rath otherwise.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

There's a glaring problem with her logic there, how would she know about
these alternatives if she didn't read any claims or buy any

'testimonials'

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

about them?

How about the NIH statement on Acupuncture? Eh? How 'bout dem apples,

Anth?

Quoted message said:

The NIH endorses Acupuncture, but not YOUR delusions of scurvy being a

genetic

Quoted message said:

disorder.

If you dig deep enough a terrible lot of mainstream is unproven but
accepted..

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

SPLOOOOOOORF!!

Yup, that's the sound of the MHA faithful laughing AT you and your ilk,

not

Quoted message said:

laughing with you.

And no doubt most of clan med - quick ring the batphones!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Anth

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

SPLOOOOOOORF!!

Is the sound of llsa choking on her bagel :o)
Anth