Firecrackers!

Rick Onanian <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 17:54:43 -0700, [email hidden] (Tom Keats)

Quoted message said:

BTW -- to get dachshunds to shuddup for awhile,

....

Quoted message said:

Somebody (I think on another newsfroup) suggested taking them
badger-hunting; but I don't know anybody who would eat a badger.

----------

I think the idea is that a badger would probably eat the DOGS.

d

(dan baker) said:

Rick Onanian <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 17:54:43 -0700, [email hidden] (Tom Keats)

Quoted message said:

BTW -- to get dachshunds to shuddup for awhile,

...

Quoted message said:

Somebody (I think on another newsfroup) suggested taking them
badger-hunting; but I don't know anybody who would eat a badger.

----------

I think the idea is that a badger would probably eat the DOGS.

d

mm-mm, cookies. ;-p

-B

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 11:58:51 -0400, Badger_South <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Somebody (I think on another newsfroup) suggested taking them
badger-hunting; but I don't know anybody who would eat a badger.

----------

I think the idea is that a badger would probably eat the DOGS.

Well, this is my last vet story. I worked at a veterinary clinic
outside of Ft. Hood, Texas in my last year of high school. Some
soldier back from Germany brought in a Schwartz Wald dachshund to
board. This sucker was the size of a basset hound and solid muscle.

I had to remove the bed platform made of 1x4s to clean the runs
everyday. As I was leaving this dogs run, bedboard in hand, I heard a
growl from behind. I turned just in time to see this dachshund launch
himself straight at my chest. I hit him in mid-air with the bedboard,
breaking it over his head and knocking him to the end of the run.
Looked dead to me.

Figuring I had killed him, I went and got the vet. By the time we got
back to the runs, he was circling, [censored] as hell, with blood coming
from the top of his head. The vets decided that never mind the blood,
the dog was healthy. I decided unilaterally to wash down everything
with a hose from outside the run, dog and all.

The owner wasn't bothered by the scar at all. The dog was orgiinally
used as a hunter, going down holes after moderately sized vermin. The
scar just joined the others already over his head and shoulders. So
some dachshunds CAN take on the odd badger or two, German variety...

Last dog I ever turned my back on, too.

Curtis L. Russell
And then there was the little dog that was an escape artist. Climbed
over the fence into the mastiff's run and we never found hide nor hair
of him again...

Curtis L. Russell said:

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 11:58:51 -0400, Badger_South <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Somebody (I think on another newsfroup) suggested taking them
> badger-hunting; but I don't know anybody who would eat a badger.
----------

I think the idea is that a badger would probably eat the DOGS.

Sure, cut out my jokes and attribute this part to me...

Quoted message said:

Well, this is my last vet story.

Aww-w. More, more - author, author. ;-p

Quoted message said:

I worked at a veterinary clinic
outside of Ft. Hood, Texas in my last year of high school.

<Cool story snipped>

Quoted message said:

Last dog I ever turned my back on, too.

Well just to balance out the discussion, I like dogs, my life was prob.
saved (as a baby) by the dog that dragged me out of the street in front of
my house, dogs like me. and I own a dog. (Jack Russell mix).

[There's just something primitive that comes up when I'm on a peaceful bike
ride and get chased by snarling snapping things. (Fortunately the odd
"Chelydra" I can out-run.)]

-B

Quoted message said:

Curtis L. Russell
And then there was the little dog that was an escape artist. Climbed
over the fence into the mastiff's run and we never found hide nor hair
of him again...

Youse looked for hairs and fibres? ;->

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 22:12:29 -0400, Rick Onanian <[email hidden]> from The

Esoteric c0wz Society said:

Somebody (I think on another newsfroup) suggested taking them
badger-hunting; but I don't know anybody who would eat a badger. Too
bad, because I could actually enjoy these dogs that way, and (get
ready for Kevan to really boil over) I'd love to go hunting and
shoot something!

I grew up hunting and fishing. I gave it up as a personal decision. I don't
object to it for other people until they cross the line of treating game
animals inhumanely. I have no respect for people who bait fields, release game
in closed areas for a so-called "big game hunt," or any number of dubious
acts. It pollutes the sport.

--
Kevan Smith
[email hidden]

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 20:12:41 -0700, The Real Bev <[email hidden]> from

Quoted message said:

Kevan Smith said:

The Real Bev said:

Kevan Smith wrote:
> "di" <[email hidden]> from Cox Communications wrote:
> >>Kevan wrote:
> >> You're going from chasing to biting. If a dog is biting you, sure, defend
> >> yourself. Spraying a chemical that could blind or poison on a dog that is
> >> merely chasing is cruelty to animals. Most chasing dogs just do it for play,
> >> not to commit harm. And, as I said, a simple spray of water stops them. I
> >> have seen it work many times.
> >
> >Wait until he gets his teeth into your flesh to determine if it's merely a
> >chase or bite?
>
> No, spray it with water to make it stop chasing. Learn to freakin' read.

Somebody said he'd tried water, to no effect. What about mixing a
LITTLE ammonia with the water? Or do you have a better suggestion?

Ammonia eats away flesh. It's a caustic solution. That's why it blinds. Even a
little bit is harmful.

What do you think is in Windex? Do you wear gloves when you clean your
windows? Do you know anybody who does? I once (yeah, stupid, I know)
sprayed myself in the eye with dryer fabric-softening spray. It took
several days for the blur to disappear. Would Windex have been more
damaging?

Likely so.

--
Kevan Smith
[email hidden]

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 15:05:59 GMT, Mark Mitchell

from BellSouth Internet Service said:

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Kevan Smith said:

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 09:16:17 GMT, Mark Mitchell

from BellSouth Internet Group said:

I'm sorry, but you've just lost me here.

A dog chasing is instinct, I agree. I disagree that negative reinforcement
(correction) is inappropriate. Meditate on the primary defence of skunks
and porcupines and then tell me that no amount of correction is going to
stop an instinctive behavior.

instinct remains. In terms of the chasing instinct, your one spray with the
ammonia bottle would be enough to blind and maim the dog, but it's not nearly
enough training time to change the instinctual behavior.

Kevan, please keep track of who you're talking to. I defy you to find any
post of mine in the last several days where I even implied that I approve
of spraying any living creature with ammonia.

Joinign this argument the way you did, that is the exact practice you are
defending. That is the "negative reinforcement" method that started the
discussion.

--
Kevan Smith
[email hidden]

Mon, 21 Jun 2004 22:12:29 -0400,
<[email hidden]>, Rick Onanian

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 17:54:43 -0700, [email hidden] (Tom Keats)

Quoted message said:

BTW -- to get dachshunds to shuddup for awhile, maybe just
bury a rabbit carcass, and put them to work digging it up.

I love it! Great idea. Won't work due to the well-manicured yard
(and I'm not the owner of said yard), but maybe I can come up with
something.

Teach them to hunt moles and gophers.
Hire 'em out as varmint control.
Let them earn their kibbles and beer.
--
zk

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Kevan Smith said:

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 15:05:59 GMT, Mark Mitchell

from BellSouth Internet Service said:

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Kevan Smith said:

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 09:16:17 GMT, Mark Mitchell
<[email hidden]> from BellSouth Internet Group wrote:

>I'm sorry, but you've just lost me here.
>
>A dog chasing is instinct, I agree. I disagree that negative reinforcement
>(correction) is inappropriate. Meditate on the primary defence of skunks
>and porcupines and then tell me that no amount of correction is going to
>stop an instinctive behavior.

instinct remains. In terms of the chasing instinct, your one spray with the
ammonia bottle would be enough to blind and maim the dog, but it's not nearly
enough training time to change the instinctual behavior.

Kevan, please keep track of who you're talking to. I defy you to find any
post of mine in the last several days where I even implied that I approve
of spraying any living creature with ammonia.

Joinign this argument the way you did, that is the exact practice you are
defending. That is the "negative reinforcement" method that started the
discussion.

Beg to differ, sir. I do feel that, in some cases, spraying a chasing dog
with an unpleasant liquid is appropriate (I believe I suggested a dilute
solution of vinegar and water), I have never advocated or defended the use
of ammonia.

Perhaps next time before you put words in my mouth, you might want to look
to see what I've actually said.

Mark

- --
Remove both wrongs to make the email address right.

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The Real Bev said:

What do you think is in Windex? Do you wear gloves when you clean your
windows? Do you know anybody who does? I once (yeah, stupid, I know)
sprayed myself in the eye with dryer fabric-softening spray. It took
several days for the blur to disappear. Would Windex have been more
damaging?

Having gotten windex in my eyes, as well as orange cleaner, neither one
required hospitilization. My vision is as good as it ever was(being a
welder I have poor vision anyway), and was unaffected by these products
except for the slight watering in my eyes that they caused. I had a
mild stinging for about 10 minutes.

No worse than getting smoke in your eyes.

Zoot Katz said:

The Real Bev <[email hidden]> wrote, of ammonia:

Quoted message said:

What do you think is in Windex? Do you wear gloves when you clean your
windows?

Did you ever spray that stuff on emerging carpenter ants?
Kills 'em quicker than than Black Flag and much easier to clean up.

Doesn't work worth [censored] on ordinary black/grease/sugar ants. The
cohabitant of a friend was very anti-insecticide, resulting in ants even
in the damn refrigerator. She figured that Windex wouldn't violate his
animalitarian instincts so we spent a lot of time spraying the damn
things with it before the guests arrived. Damn ants just swam around in
it until we squashed 'em with a sponge. Nothing like ants in the
refrigerator to gross somebody out.

--
Cheers,
Bev
66666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666
Vampireware; n, a project capable of sucking the lifeblood
out of anyone unfortunate enough to be assigned to it,
which never actually sees the light of day, but nonetheless
refuses to die. -- Trygve Lode

dan baker said:

Rick Onanian <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 17:54:43 -0700, [email hidden] (Tom Keats)

Quoted message said:

BTW -- to get dachshunds to shuddup for awhile,

...

Quoted message said:

Somebody (I think on another newsfroup) suggested taking them
badger-hunting; but I don't know anybody who would eat a badger.

----------

I think the idea is that a badger would probably eat the DOGS.

d

Ya gotta remember: if daschunds were bred to be badger hounds, they were
bred for the European badger. Our N.American badger is a pit bull
compared to those. If you were to send them after a badger, he may
really silence those noisy dogs!
Bernie
<watched a lot of Knowledge Network>

In article <[email hidden]>,
The Real Bev <[email hidden]> writes:

Y'know those sticky fly strips that pull out of a
container like a pastic film cannister?

Just lay one of those down on the floor, between under
the kitchen sink and the fridge (that's where those
tiny little apartment ants like to track.) Don't step
on it, though.

And if you're ever plagued with mice, stuff steel wool
around every pipe or drain that comes through a wall.

cheers,
Tom

--
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Above address is just a spam midden.
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The Real Bev said:

Zoot Katz said:

The Real Bev <[email hidden]> wrote, of ammonia:

Quoted message said:

What do you think is in Windex? Do you wear gloves when you clean your
windows?

Did you ever spray that stuff on emerging carpenter ants?
Kills 'em quicker than than Black Flag and much easier to clean up.

Doesn't work worth [censored] on ordinary black/grease/sugar ants. The
cohabitant of a friend was very anti-insecticide, resulting in ants even
in the damn refrigerator. She figured that Windex wouldn't violate his
animalitarian instincts so we spent a lot of time spraying the damn
things with it before the guests arrived. Damn ants just swam around in
it until we squashed 'em with a sponge. Nothing like ants in the
refrigerator to gross somebody out.

Hell, I've lived in downtown Toronto. Little ants in ye fridge would be
ignored next to the lovely big brown cockroaches everywhere. They
useta freak me a bit...
Bernie

In article <[email hidden]>,

Curtis L. Russell said:

And I worked at a vet for three years and have owned a lot of dogs
myself. I know dogs better than most - I'm one of those people that
they call a dog person, where even unfriendly dogs come up to me
wagging their tails - but the only people worse than those that know
nothing about dogs are those that assume they can read every dog that
comes up the pike.

Human beans are just as readable (or unreadable.) I agree
it's a mistake to make ridiculous presumptions. But most
of the dogs I've encountered have really appreciated being
regarded with due respect, and have responded in kind. That
includes not bothering them with a bunch of unwelcome attention.

Quoted message said:

I've had my share of stitches from dogs that both I
and the vets misread (actually both thumbs have scars up their side
from 30 plus years ago). And some large breeds are known for making no
overt sign until they strike.

But how deeply were you incursing into their personal spaces?
Y'know, same as how people don't like other people standing
or sidling-up too close to them, like on a crowded bus or subway.
Or poking fingers, or making other such intrusive gestures at them.
Or even approaching too closely when they're gnawing on a delicious
soup bone that's all their own.

mmmm ... soup bone.

Anyhow, a vet clinic isn't a place where dogs feel comfortable.
It's not the same as out in the wide-open.

cheers,
Tom

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On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 00:11:44 -0700, [email hidden] (Tom Keats)

Quoted message said:

But how deeply were you incursing into their personal spaces?
Y'know, same as how people don't like other people standing
or sidling-up too close to them, like on a crowded bus or subway.

Naive. Some breeds, especially herd and flock defenders as opposed to
herders, were bred to be silent killers, and expected to handle
anything up to and including European wolves on their own. For some
reason, the native Japanese large rural breeds seem to have a lot of
them, as well as EastEuropean native herd dogs. These suckers will
chase silently and close with one purpose - waiting for signs and
signals is not the way to handle these animals (OTOH, I'll admit that
if you are being chased by one of these 70-120 pound breeds, I don't
have a lot of solutions. Tossing your ride companions to them and keep
booking is the most effective, if a touch mean spirited.)

The basic problem is people buying these animals and putting them in
the wrong place. A boxer in an apartment with furniture that is not
bottom heavy is a bad idea. An Akita, even a socialized one, in a
place where there are a lot of strange people and animals is also not
a good idea. Any free ranging animal in the open is not only a bad
idea, it is illegal in most states in the U.S.

Anyway, I was paid to hold the animals. If the animal went a bit wild,
I was paid to stand there until all the 'civilians' were out of the
way. My worst scars were because the owner of a rather nice (normally)
German Shepherd refused to leave the room.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...