Firecrackers!

On 20 Jun 2004 07:58:22 -0700, [email hidden] (John) from

urlhttp://groups.google.com/url said:

The dogs have bitten me. I confronted the owner after that happened
and was told that since they lived in the country they weren't going
to chain their dogs...which I guess I can understand. But there are
dozens of unchained dogs around here that don't chase me and have
never bitten me.

After talking to the owner some more, I decided to try Halt spray. I
managed to hit 1 dog with it. That dog immediately stopped chasing,
went to the side of the road, and started rubbing its head on the
ground. But the dogs have continued to chase despite that instance
and further use of the Halt.

I regard the owner's negligence in training and controlling his
animals, which is leading towards the dogs being put down, as a far
greater example of animal cruelty than ammonia, firecrackers, or a
gunshot to the head.

No, ammonia is still cruel. There is no doubt the owner is in the wrong hear,
however, you are too. Instead of escalating to chemical warfare, you should
call the animal control authorities. Perhaps they can help the dogs find a
better owner.

--
Kevan Smith
[email hidden]

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 08:04:27 -0400, Badger_South <[email hidden]> from

Quoted message said:

But are you saying that ammonia would harm the dog? Is it not equivalent to
skunk spray (only less oily)? I'd doubt that 1/2 clear ammonia and water
would harm the dog, but I don't know - perhaps you have some experience?

Test it on your own eyes first.

Ammonia is a caustic substance that can blind you.

--
Kevan Smith
[email hidden]

On 20 Jun 2004 12:11:54 GMT, [email hidden] (GABIKE) from AOL

urlhttp://www.aol.com/url said:

Quoted message said:

Cruelty to animals is against the law. If I ever see anyone spraying ammonia
on a dog, I will report you to the police and follow the case through the
courts to make sure you are punished. There is no need to spray ammonia on a
chasing dog. A surprise shot of plain water shocks the animal enough to make
it give up the chase. I have seen this work time after time.

--
Kevan Smith
[email hidden]

What about cruelty to humans? Get your head out of your rear end.

A dog chasing someone is not cruelty. It is usually instinct or play.

--
Kevan Smith
[email hidden]

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 20:59:43 +0800, Michael J. Klein <[email hidden]>

from DCI HiNet said:

You're making assumptions. What works best is firing the ammonia
directly down which puts a spot of foul smelling stuff between
whatever is chasing you, and you.

That's BS. You're just trying to appear less an ass than you already do. You
would spray the ammonia on the dog.

Quoted message said:

Another assumption is that a chasing dog is someone's pet. Depending
upon where one lives, that may or may not be the case. Where I live,
the wild dog popluation frequently overtakes, kills and eats humans.

A dingo ate your heart, apparently.

Anyway, if you live in an area like that, you'd obviously be better off not
riding your bike there. And, if the dogs are such a danger, I am sure there
are organized efforts you can join to cull the population humanely.

Frankly, though, I think you are lying.

--
Kevan Smith
[email hidden]

In article <[email hidden]>,

Kevan Smith said:

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 20:59:43 +0800, Michael J. Klein <[email hidden]>

from DCI HiNet said:

You're making assumptions. What works best is firing the ammonia
directly down which puts a spot of foul smelling stuff between
whatever is chasing you, and you.

That's BS. You're just trying to appear less an ass than you already do. You
would spray the ammonia on the dog.

Quoted message said:

Another assumption is that a chasing dog is someone's pet. Depending
upon where one lives, that may or may not be the case. Where I live,
the wild dog popluation frequently overtakes, kills and eats humans.

A dingo ate your heart, apparently.

Anyway, if you live in an area like that, you'd obviously be better off not
riding your bike there. And, if the dogs are such a danger, I am sure there
are organized efforts you can join to cull the population humanely.

Frankly, though, I think you are lying.

--
Kevan Smith
[email hidden]

Mr. Klein lives in Taiwan, Ibelieve.

There, dog is a fine meal eaten by humans.

Only fair that a dog gets a chance at eating a humane....)

What a beautiful day here on the east coast. Why am I stuck mowing the lawn,
triming the hedge cutting down a dead tree, etc etc etc..

I could be RIDING!

HAND

--
"Freedom Is a Light for Which Many Have Died in Darkness"

- Tomb of the unknown - American Revolution

In article <[email hidden]>,

Kevan Smith said:

Most chasing dogs just do it for play,
not to commit harm. And, as I said, a simple spray of water stops them. I have
seen it work many times.

Most of the city dogs that have chased after me, stopped when
I did. I guess I spoilt their fun, but I didn't want them getting
hit by cars. Didn't even need to squirt anything at them.
Some dogs might need a light, educational swat or poke with a
pump or something, just enough to teach them that bikes aren't
as fun or appropriate as a tennis ball or frisbee to chase after.
Don't have to bash their heads in, though; far from it.

Sometimes dogs don't even chase for play, they just desperately
need someone to talk to.

Cats generally know exactly the right amount of warning feint plus
actual force to use to get typical house pet dogs to back off.
We can learn from cats.

cheers,
Tom

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

Quoted message said:

Cruelty to animals is against the law. If I ever see anyone spraying

ammonia

Quoted message said:

on a dog, I will report you to the police and follow the case through the
courts to make sure you are punished. There is no need to spray ammonia on

a

Quoted message said:

chasing dog. A surprise shot of plain water shocks the animal enough to

make

Quoted message said:

it give up the chase. I have seen this work time after time.

Quoted message said:

Kevan Smith

Two things: One, people ARE allowed to defend themselves against attackers,
whether they be humans or animals. and, Two, people are not bound by what
one Kevan Smith thinks is or is not acceptable self defense.

Pat in TX

In article <[email hidden]>,

H. M. Leary said:

Only fair that a dog gets a chance at eating a humane....)

LOL

Quoted message said:

What a beautiful day here on the east coast. Why am I stuck mowing the lawn,
triming the hedge cutting down a dead tree, etc etc etc..

I could be RIDING!

It's too hot anyways ;-)
I've got some lawn & garden care to do, too.

Quoted message said:

HAND

You too.

cheers,
Tom

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 12:11:55 -0500, Kevan Smith <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 08:04:27 -0400, Badger_South <[email hidden]> from

Quoted message said:

But are you saying that ammonia would harm the dog? Is it not equivalent to
skunk spray (only less oily)? I'd doubt that 1/2 clear ammonia and water
would harm the dog, but I don't know - perhaps you have some experience?

Test it on your own eyes first.

Ammonia is a caustic substance that can blind you.

Pretty hostile response on your part to a simple question. Why so hostile
to fellow bikers than to growling snarling animals with apparent bad
intentions? I wouldn't blame anyone that had been previously bitten for
spraying a dog (or -that- dog) - would you?

-Badger

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 14:47:41 -0400, Badger_South <[email hidden]> from

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 12:11:55 -0500, Kevan Smith <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 08:04:27 -0400, Badger_South <[email hidden]> from

Quoted message said:

But are you saying that ammonia would harm the dog? Is it not equivalent to
skunk spray (only less oily)? I'd doubt that 1/2 clear ammonia and water
would harm the dog, but I don't know - perhaps you have some experience?

Test it on your own eyes first.

Ammonia is a caustic substance that can blind you.

Pretty hostile response on your part to a simple question. Why so hostile
to fellow bikers than to growling snarling animals with apparent bad
intentions? I wouldn't blame anyone that had been previously bitten for
spraying a dog (or -that- dog) - would you?

It's not hostile. If you want to find out the effects of ammonia on eyes, then
use your own. Why torture a dog?

Deliberately using a chemical known to blind is cruelty to animals. Yes, I can
blame people who break the law, previously bitten or not.

--
Kevan Smith
[email hidden]

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 11:15:38 -0700, [email hidden] (Tom Keats) from

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Kevan Smith said:

Most chasing dogs just do it for play,
not to commit harm. And, as I said, a simple spray of water stops them. I have
seen it work many times.

Most of the city dogs that have chased after me, stopped when
I did. I guess I spoilt their fun, but I didn't want them getting
hit by cars. Didn't even need to squirt anything at them.

That's been my experience, too. Also, I've made some good dog friends in the
countryside. I look forward to a little race with them, and I think they like
it, too. However, there are some days that are so hot and muggy they just stay
in the shade and give a lazy little woof and a wag as I ride by.

--
Kevan Smith
[email hidden]

Pat' from said:

Quoted message said:

Cruelty to animals is against the law. If I ever see anyone spraying

ammonia

Quoted message said:

on a dog, I will report you to the police and follow the case through the
courts to make sure you are punished. There is no need to spray ammonia on

a

Quoted message said:

chasing dog. A surprise shot of plain water shocks the animal enough to

make

Quoted message said:

it give up the chase. I have seen this work time after time.

Quoted message said:

Kevan Smith

Two things: One, people ARE allowed to defend themselves against attackers,
whether they be humans or animals. and, Two, people are not bound by what
one Kevan Smith thinks is or is not acceptable self defense.

Well, no [censored]. I'm glad you stepped up on your teensy sopabox to advocate
torturing dogs.

BTW, spraying a chasing dog with ammonia is NOT self defense.

--
Kevan Smith
[email hidden]

"The amount of ammonia produced by humans every year is almost equal
to that produced by nature every year. Ammonia is produced naturally in soil
by bacteria, decaying plants and animals, and animal wastes. Ammonia is
essential for many biological processes.

How can ammonia affect my health?
Exposure to high concentrations of ammonia in the air may cause severe
burns in your skin, eyes, throat, and lungs. In extreme cases, blindness,
lung damage, or death could occur. Breathing lower concentrations will cause
coughing and nose and throat irritation.

If you swallow ammonia, you could suffer burns in your mouth, throat,
and stomach. Concentrated ammonia spilled on the skin will cause burns.
Animal studies show effects similar to those observed in people. We do not
know if ammonia affects reproduction in humans.

atsdr.cdc.govtfacts126.html"Open ↗

"Kevan Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 08:04:27 -0400, Badger_South <[email hidden]> from
wrote:

Ammonia is a caustic substance that can blind you.
--
Kevan Smith
[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

You're going from chasing to biting. If a dog is biting you, sure, defend
yourself. Spraying a chemical that could blind or poison on a dog that is
merely chasing is cruelty to animals. Most chasing dogs just do it for

play,

Quoted message said:

not to commit harm. And, as I said, a simple spray of water stops them. I

have

Quoted message said:

seen it work many times.

--
Kevan Smith

Wait until he gets his teeth into your flesh to determine if it's merely a
chase or bite? Don't think so, the dog's actions are your option to
determine if he means you harm or not.

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 14:19:13 -0500, Kevan Smith <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 14:47:41 -0400, Badger_South <[email hidden]> from

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 12:11:55 -0500, Kevan Smith <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 08:04:27 -0400, Badger_South <[email hidden]> from
wrote:

>But are you saying that ammonia would harm the dog? Is it not equivalent to
>skunk spray (only less oily)? I'd doubt that 1/2 clear ammonia and water
>would harm the dog, but I don't know - perhaps you have some experience?

Test it on your own eyes first.

Ammonia is a caustic substance that can blind you.

Pretty hostile response on your part to a simple question. Why so hostile
to fellow bikers than to growling snarling animals with apparent bad
intentions? I wouldn't blame anyone that had been previously bitten for
spraying a dog (or -that- dog) - would you?

It's not hostile. If you want to find out the effects of ammonia on eyes, then
use your own. Why torture a dog?

Deliberately using a chemical known to blind is cruelty to animals. Yes, I can
blame people who break the law, previously bitten or not.

OK, having read the OP's 'dangers of ammonia', I agree, it's not cool to
use concentrated ammonia on animals for any reason. I think the reason one
poster mentioned it was that it's a common household chemical, and they may
have recalled the reaction to an ammonia capsule, which when used to arouse
from fainting, causes aversion; they may have been imagining squirting the
dog's nose, actually.

So I don't think anyone would advocate, nor deliberately use to blind, such
a substance.

I've never sprayed a dog with anything, but I have been harassed by many
dogs, had them jump on me (which the owners think is 'cute'😉, had their
claws rip the skin on my legs (still have a scar).

Again, your reaction seems hostile, or at least exaggerated, considering no
one said anything about blinding, to a simple inquiry.

But it's true, eveyone seems to side with the dogs; dogs are completely
faultless, "if you get bit it's your fault for being in the wrong place at
the wrong time", "he's harmless", "he's never done that before", "my dog
would never bite you" (while watching the dog chow down on your leg).
Perhaps we -should- spray the owners. ;-)

-Badger

Kevan Smith said:

On 20 Jun 2004 07:58:22 -0700, [email hidden] (John) from

urlhttp://groups.google.com/url said:

The dogs have bitten me. I confronted the owner after that happened
and was told that since they lived in the country they weren't going
to chain their dogs...which I guess I can understand. But there are
dozens of unchained dogs around here that don't chase me and have
never bitten me.

After talking to the owner some more, I decided to try Halt spray. I
managed to hit 1 dog with it. That dog immediately stopped chasing,
went to the side of the road, and started rubbing its head on the
ground. But the dogs have continued to chase despite that instance
and further use of the Halt.

I regard the owner's negligence in training and controlling his
animals, which is leading towards the dogs being put down, as a far
greater example of animal cruelty than ammonia, firecrackers, or a
gunshot to the head.

No, ammonia is still cruel. There is no doubt the owner is in the wrong hear,
however, you are too. Instead of escalating to chemical warfare, you should
call the animal control authorities. Perhaps they can help the dogs find a
better owner.

In other words, let the government take care of it, once again. Man,
I hate the socialist agenda. How about the Citizen remove the threat
by taking personal responsibility?

Michael J. Klein [email hidden]
Dasi Jen, Taoyuan Hsien, Taiwan, ROC
Please replace mousepotato with asiancastings
---------------------------------------------

Kevan Smith said:

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 14:47:41 -0400, Badger_South <[email hidden]> from

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 12:11:55 -0500, Kevan Smith <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 08:04:27 -0400, Badger_South <[email hidden]> from
wrote:

>But are you saying that ammonia would harm the dog? Is it not equivalent to
>skunk spray (only less oily)? I'd doubt that 1/2 clear ammonia and water
>would harm the dog, but I don't know - perhaps you have some experience?

Test it on your own eyes first.

Ammonia is a caustic substance that can blind you.

Pretty hostile response on your part to a simple question. Why so hostile
to fellow bikers than to growling snarling animals with apparent bad
intentions? I wouldn't blame anyone that had been previously bitten for
spraying a dog (or -that- dog) - would you?

It's not hostile. If you want to find out the effects of ammonia on eyes, then
use your own. Why torture a dog?

Deliberately using a chemical known to blind is cruelty to animals. Yes, I can
blame people who break the law, previously bitten or not.

Law? You keep talking about laws and authorities like they are the
answer to the problem.
Michael J. Klein [email hidden]
Dasi Jen, Taoyuan Hsien, Taiwan, ROC
Please replace mousepotato with asiancastings
---------------------------------------------

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 17:31:15 -0400, Badger_South <[email hidden]>
wrote:

<snippled to save everyone's sanity>

Quoted message said:

But it's true, eveyone seems to side with the dogs; dogs are completely
faultless, "if you get bit it's your fault for being in the wrong place at
the wrong time", "he's harmless", "he's never done that before", "my dog
would never bite you" (while watching the dog chow down on your leg).
Perhaps we -should- spray the owners. ;-)

That is exactly what the owner said to the policeman as he was taking
their dog away for having attacked me. That was in the US of course,
and in the '60s I might add. "He's never done that before" became
"yeah, and he'll never do it again."
Michael J. Klein [email hidden]
Dasi Jen, Taoyuan Hsien, Taiwan, ROC
Please replace mousepotato with asiancastings
---------------------------------------------

Kevan Smith said:

On 20 Jun 2004 12:11:54 GMT, [email hidden] (GABIKE) from AOL

urlhttp://www.aol.com/url said:

Quoted message said:

Cruelty to animals is against the law. If I ever see anyone spraying ammonia
on a dog, I will report you to the police and follow the case through the
courts to make sure you are punished. There is no need to spray ammonia on a
chasing dog. A surprise shot of plain water shocks the animal enough to make
it give up the chase. I have seen this work time after time.

--
Kevan Smith
[email hidden]

What about cruelty to humans? Get your head out of your rear end.

A dog chasing someone is not cruelty. It is usually instinct or play.

Man, you just won't give up will you? "Usually" OK, fine. When its
_not_ instinct or play, and an animal clearly wants to do you harm,
tell us all Kevan, what do you do? Do you threaten to sue? Toss your
attorney's business card as a warning? Site articles of the local
civil code? I have a list and I'm going to compare it with your
response. I'll bet I'm right.

Michael J. Klein [email hidden]
Dasi Jen, Taoyuan Hsien, Taiwan, ROC
Please replace mousepotato with asiancastings
---------------------------------------------

Kevan Smith said:

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 20:59:43 +0800, Michael J. Klein <[email hidden]>

from DCI HiNet said:

You're making assumptions. What works best is firing the ammonia
directly down which puts a spot of foul smelling stuff between
whatever is chasing you, and you.

That's BS. You're just trying to appear less an ass than you already do. You
would spray the ammonia on the dog.

How do you know? If I appear to be an ass, apparently you're the only
one who thinks so. Like I care. lol

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Another assumption is that a chasing dog is someone's pet. Depending
upon where one lives, that may or may not be the case. Where I live,
the wild dog popluation frequently overtakes, kills and eats humans.

A dingo ate your heart, apparently.

I'm the ass, huh?

Quoted message said:

Anyway, if you live in an area like that, you'd obviously be better off not
riding your bike there. And, if the dogs are such a danger, I am sure there
are organized efforts you can join to cull the population humanely.

Another thing you're so "sure" of, eh? I guess you could call
literally throwing hundreds of dogs in a pit and dousing them with
chemicals "humane" but that isn't my style. This is Asia, not Peoria.

Quoted message said:

Frankly, though, I think you are lying.

Frankly I don't give a [censored] what you think. If you're too stupid to
actually be paying attention, that's your problem, not mine.

Michael J. Klein [email hidden]
Dasi Jen, Taoyuan Hsien, Taiwan, ROC
Please replace mousepotato with asiancastings
---------------------------------------------