Cycing Training and Sex Drive

[Flyer]

You mean burn out and die young!

Try 'opening' your eyes instead of 'rolling' them.

Perhaps then you will grasp why drugs such as:

stimulants, viagra and testosterone are so wildly popular with athletes----who might otherwise be too fatigued for a social life.

The Pot Belge was the Festina & Cofidis drug of choice (heorin, morphine, cocaine and corticosteroids)

Doping for performance---that's the whole point.

So now the pro peloton have to dope so that they'll be stallions in the sack, too? Man, with that kind of performance pressure it's no wonder they burn out so young.

 

[Flyer]

Peter Winnen and his employers do wait patiently for victory for an organic testosterone boost.

They boost it FIRST (synthetically), winning comes second, if at all.

It was Peter Winnen who touched on the subject w/o a full disclosure of his solutions.

Your remarks are off point when referring to elite athletes. (Natural) has nothing to do with it.


I get the impression that it is Carrerra's own experiences, which you can certainly not assume include doping, which motivated him to post his question.
My remarks may seem silly to you but they are true. Victory elevates (natural) testosterone levels and failure depresses it.
I think that you had better take a day off, you seem a little up tight.[/QUOTE]

 

[Flyer]

My post re: deception, fraud and false beliefs. Doping falls into that category---as does lying and commercial deceptions---including phony cover stories re: 'stomach viruses' and other mysterious illnesses that pro athletes get on a monthly basis: Cunego with Mono now.

This post is about doper Peter Winnen and testosterone levels.

Get that through your head.

You turned it into an organic discussion.

The pros use drugs/hormone therapy to 1) train 2) recover 3) to live a social life.

Peter Winnen is not helpful to a discussion of testosterone levels.

My posts help add context to a doper's story--where much is left unwritten.

Obviously, if doping is not practiced, training loads will be reduced--and more rest and a proper healthy diet emphasized.

Carrera,
google "Andropause". There is a lot of info out about it.

Interestingly, male test levals and sperm counts have dropped dramaticaly in the "western world" in the last couple of decades. The predominant theory is from all the chemicals we absorb. Turns out many plastics when heated release a estrogen mimicing compound.

Getting your test levels checked is a good idea, and while your at it, do a PSA (prostate specific antigen) and cholesterol.

I don't know about how heavy aerobic activity affects test levels. Perhaps have the blood work done a day after a hard training, then again after a couple days of easy going?

Flyer, we all realize the only thing you can write about is doping in the peloton but I fail to see how your posts are at all relevant to the original query. Perhaps you have some evidence you can share about how the peloton members perform in the sack? Afterall, this thread is about libido, not PED's.

 

[Don Shipp]

Peter Winnen and his employers do wait patiently for victory for an organic testosterone boost.

They boost it FIRST (synthetically), winning comes second, if at all.

It was Peter Winnen who touched on the subject w/o a full disclosure of his solutions.

Your remarks are off point when referring to elite athletes. (Natural) has nothing to do with it.
QUOTE]

You are correct. My remarks do not refer to atheletes who artificially raise their testosterone levels, but how many of them are logging on to this site?

 

[Flyer]

There are a few dopers who log in here.

As well as a few doping apologists too.

But my chief concern is that the marketing and promotion of commercial cycling---with helpful training tips offered up in all cycling newspapers, magazines etc.... books and videos and the constant endorsement of so-called nutritional foods and energy drinks, that many 'natural/organic' weekend warriors adopt everything written or spoken by an active pro-rider as the gospel truth.

Often times, it is unhelpful, deceptive and possibly harmful to a person not under trauma care.

In the quest to make a buck (and a living) pro athletes will sell their mother's soul to the devil into order to harvest something from a very short 'shelf-life' that is athletics.

Peter Winnen, a confessed doper of EPO and other steroids is not qualified to advise undoped athletes.

He crossed over to professional racing---and can never be trusted to help recreational cyclists.

That's is why a testosterone discussion is so tricky. This hormone is the grandfather of all the other hormones.

Peter Winnen and his employers do wait patiently for victory for an organic testosterone boost.

They boost it FIRST (synthetically), winning comes second, if at all.

It was Peter Winnen who touched on the subject w/o a full disclosure of his solutions.

Your remarks are off point when referring to elite athletes. (Natural) has nothing to do with it.
QUOTE]

You are correct. My remarks do not refer to atheletes who artificially raise their testosterone levels, but how many of them are logging on to this site?

 

[frenchyge]

Hey Ric, whatever happened to the Doping Forum that used to be on this website? Is there any way to bring that back so the wayward sheep can return to the flock?

 

[Carrera]

What Peter Winnen stated was essentially that he believed doping wasn't cheating if the said doping was being used as medicine. But it would be cheating with regard to strength athletes.
By this he was stating that the kind of situation where you're hanging over the bars and pushing yourself beyond fatigue lowers testosterone levels. So, what Winnen saw happening in his day was doctors simply normalising testosterone levels in a way you would normalise a high temperature by taking aspirin.
Winnen claimed his own testosterone level would drop below the norm and a doctor would treat him to accordingly. I mean, steroids are even used by hayfever sufferers (I myself am an extreme sufferer).
But Winnen dropped out after the advent of EPO. He wanted nothing to do with EPO and saw himself getting dropped by riders who had adopted it. Winnen only believed drugs were valid for treating medical imbalances.
Now the other day I trained very very hard and was so tired afterwards, I can't quite describe it. I felt so tired it was like I was too tired to lie down. Due to my limited time schedule, I have to train really hard but for shorter periods, a bit like Roger Bannister used to do when he studied medicine.
I honestly have no idea at all whether hard cardio training can affect sex drive either for the better or worse.

You mean burn out and die young!

Try 'opening' your eyes instead of 'rolling' them.

Perhaps then you will grasp why drugs such as:

stimulants, viagra and testosterone are so wildly popular with athletes----who might otherwise be too fatigued for a social life.

The Pot Belge was the Festina & Cofidis drug of choice (heorin, morphine, cocaine and corticosteroids)

Doping for performance---that's the whole point.

 

[Flyer]

And what of the naive folk who want to discuss racing, tactics and testosterone w/o a clue as to synthetic hormone supplements?

Ought we have a 'fairy tale forum' for those innocent children?

Great idea Frenchy!

Hey Ric, whatever happened to the Doping Forum that used to be on this website? Is there any way to bring that back so the wayward sheep can return to the flock?

 

[Flyer]

Thanks for the clarification of Peter Winnen's remarks Carrera.

I have often heard of the 'medical rejuvination' justification for recovery to a previous hormone level.
Luc LeBlanc, retired Castorama, once said that it is 'unhealthy to ride a Tour de France' w/o drugs.

My problem is this: What is normal?

hCT is 43% (41-46%) yet 50% is allowed by WADA

T/E (testosterone/epitestosetone) is 2.5 to 1, yet UCI has allowed a 6:1 ratio, in 2005 it is to be 4:1

Who decides, who controls, where is the spirit of compliance?

If performance and money matter most, doping to levels beyond 'natural' will always be the end result.

The rules allow for cheating.

The tests have huge hole for cheating

The team managers want exposure and results.

The athlete will be juiced and his health harmed over time.

For unmedicated, natural athletes, the training loads, short sessions of intensity or long sessions of endurance will need more rest in between vrs a Peter Winnen or a LA.

What Peter Winnen stated was essentially that he believed doping wasn't cheating if the said doping was being used as medicine. But it would be cheating with regard to strength athletes.
By this he was stating that the kind of situation where you're hanging over the bars and pushing yourself beyond fatigue lowers testosterone levels. So, what Winnen saw happening in his day was doctors simply normalising testosterone levels in a way you would normalise a high temperature by taking aspirin.
Winnen claimed his own testosterone level would drop below the norm and a doctor would treat him to accordingly. I mean, steroids are even used by hayfever sufferers (I myself am an extreme sufferer).
But Winnen dropped out after the advent of EPO. He wanted nothing to do with EPO and saw himself getting dropped by riders who had adopted it. Winnen only believed drugs were valid for treating medical imbalances.
Now the other day I trained very very hard and was so tired afterwards, I can't quite describe it. I felt so tired it was like I was too tired to lie down. Due to my limited time schedule, I have to train really hard but for shorter periods, a bit like Roger Bannister used to do when he studied medicine.
I honestly have no idea at all whether hard cardio training can affect sex drive either for the better or worse.

 

[Flyer]

Carrera:

Insofar as limited time for trianing in concerned---this may be at the very core of the fatigue matter.

You must have easy training sessions built into your routine----in addition to rest days.

You cannot ride hard all-of-the-time and expect to grow stronger. You can expect to burn out---and drop your hormone levels naturally.

I suggest, 2 easy days (with a few jumps) for every hard training day. (replan your training)

Gotta go easy, so your body can adjust and permit more work later (harder than you do now).

You need to adapt a large range of power (low, medium, high, and maximum high end)

The slowest riders, with the longest warm-up, seem to uncork the fastest top end power and speed at the track. (we do not race a Ferrari out of the driveway, we carefully warm it up for 30 minutes--then stomp on it) A human being is even more fragile.

You want to train to be a 'fast finisher' and thus, a slow starter. Fast starters go out-the-back when these other people kick it up late in a session. (the last 60 minutes do many extra hard efforts, with 20-30 minute cool down afterwards)

If your schedule won't permit this---you will need to quit training altogether.

Hope this helps.

Now the other day I trained very very hard and was so tired afterwards, I can't quite describe it. I felt so tired it was like I was too tired to lie down. Due to my limited time schedule, I have to train really hard but for shorter periods, a bit like Roger Bannister used to do when he studied medicine.

I honestly have no idea at all whether hard cardio training can affect sex drive either for the better or worse.

 

[VeloFlash]

There are a few dopers who log in here.

As well as a few doping apologists too.....<snip>.

Flyer, you have been ranting and raving about doping for about 99% of your contributions. These are the facts:

1. You state the obvious to any experienced and well travelled competitive cyclist that the vast majority of the pro peloton must dope to succeed.

2. However, when you make extreme statements of "fact" you fail to deliver the source of the evidence of those facts and continue to avoid.

3. Any poster who does not agree with your dubious and unsubstantiated "facts" is an apologist.

4. Any poster who knows, trains with or competes with a rider sanctioned for doping offences is a doper.

Flyer, to refute most of the above you can supply us with the names of contributors who are dopers/apologists.

 

[Flyer]

Boy, talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

You have a full time job writing propaganda for your AIS alumni. I have not embarrassed myself with those insane defensive and unreasonable rants. You have! Non-professionals dope too!

An alumni steeped with winning AND illegal doping, many of whom---ARE NOT yet PROs.

Is Carrey Hall (yet another disgraced Aussie Doper)your brother?

Your position is as goofy as your hypocritical understanding that; 'doping knows no borders--yet somehow occurs only with corporate funds, NEVER with Australian Taxpayer funds'. As if drugs cannot be purchased with government monies.

You ought to seeking help before throwing stones at people more balanced on these corruption matters.

You have lots of dirty and illegal antics going on in dorm rooms on AIS property---including wrecking AIS vehicles.

Go stop your madness before another coach is strangled, or murdered, next time an top AIOS alum goes into 'roid rage'.

Go clean up your spent syringes, your horse hormones (EquiGen) and your TestiComp before you lecture to a doping discussion.

You have lost your 'doping cover-up' previleges.

Flyer, you have been ranting and raving about doping for about 99% of your contributions. These are the facts:

1. You state the obvious to any experienced and well travelled competitive cyclist that the vast majority of the pro peloton must dope to succeed.

2. However, when you make extreme statements of "fact" you fail to deliver the source of the evidence of those facts and continue to avoid.

3. Any poster who does not agree with your dubious and unsubstantiated "facts" is an apologist.

4. Any poster who knows, trains with or competes with a rider sanctioned for doping offences is a doper.

Flyer, to refute most of the above you can supply us with the names of contributors who are dopers/apologists.

 

[VeloFlash]

Flyer, again you failed to answer the question and continued to proceed to issue a roll out of unsubstantiated personal views, unshared with any other person on this planet, supposedly drawn from facts.

The defence rests

 

[Flyer]

Because you rest, the doping can continue in earnest.

That's the point. Apologist, cover-up artist, denial plaqued, whatever shoe fits. You have avoided every question, every embarrassing public detail of your precious AIS 2004 Olympic bullet dodging scandal.

If you actually were opposed to doping you would be restless---especially in light of the past 18 months of disturbing activities on AIS properties. You would be furious that doping was in fact occurring on AIS property. But you are not---your inaction is why the problem exists and will continue to.

Attempted murder, spent sryinges, horse hormones, chemists operating 1,000 meters from velodromes, wrecked vans, World Champion admitting to doping---other World Champs going positive for illegal drugs. All public facts! Dirty and true!

You pour your energy into discediting whistleblowers or anyone who refers ugly public news reports. You are a shill for institutional corruption.

Because you rest---your doping embarassments will continue.

Your theme will not play outside of your little world.

Flyer, again you failed to answer the question and continued to proceed to issue a roll out of unsubstantiated personal views, unshared with any other person on this planet, supposedly drawn from facts.

The defence rests

 

[Don Shipp]

Flyer, again you failed to answer the question and continued to proceed to issue a roll out of unsubstantiated personal views, unshared with any other person on this planet, supposedly drawn from facts.

The defence rests

I think that Flyer provided a good answer to the posted question. It was easily missed but check the thread again. No. 30 on this thread.
If you aren't doping, you can't follow the training program of someone who is. That means lots of recovery time and a flat performance curve. Be real.

 

[frenchyge]

I think that Flyer provided a good answer to the posted question. It was easily missed but check the thread again. No. 30 on this thread.
If you aren't doping, you can't follow the training program of someone who is. That means lots of recovery time and a flat performance curve. Be real.

The OP asked "Has anyone on this forum ever experienced decreased libido while training very hard. Coincidence or lnked? " and Flyer's good answer (after half a dozen doping rants) is "don't work so hard?" Boy, that's a lot of buildup for that little gem.

Care to defend why he didn't just post his good answer first, and use the rest of his knowledge to start a new thread?

 

[Felt_Rider]

Carrera, hope this will help.

Keep in mind that stress (rise is cortisol levels), stress related sleep disturbance, inconsistent nutrition levels interfering with recovery and most of all the aging process can all be factors, but this article goes a little deeper for endurance athletes.


http://www.sportsci.org/encyc/testosterone/testosterone.html

 

[VeloFlash]

I think that Flyer provided a good answer to the posted question. It was easily missed but check the thread again. No. 30 on this thread.
If you aren't doping, you can't follow the training program of someone who is. That means lots of recovery time and a flat performance curve. Be real.

Don Shipp, I was not being specific about this thread. I was referring generally about Flyers near 1,000 posts to Cycling Forums.

Flyer has been repeatedly criticised for avoiding questions on his "facts". Anyone who disagrees with his "fact" drawn opinions are one of or all of being an apologist, a doper by association and/or part of the omerta vowed conspiracy.

The relevance to this thread is that in his opening reference in the part of the post I quoted (edit: #25 (not #30) doper/apologist), the statement is drawn from unsubstantiated allegations he has been echoing on other threads.

Flyer must be omniscient as he has this innate ability to read between lines and/or see what is not there. I think there is a couch in his future!

 

[Don Shipp]

Don Shipp, I was not being specific about this thread. I was referring generally about Flyers near 1,000 posts to Cycling Forums.

Flyer has been repeatedly criticised for avoiding questions on his "facts". Anyone who disagrees with his "fact" drawn opinions are one of or all of being an apologist, a doper by association and/or part of the omerta vowed conspiracy.

The relevance to this thread is that in his opening reference in the part of the post I quoted (#30 doper/apologist), the statement is drawn from unsubstantiated allegations he has been echoing on other threads.

Flyer must be omniscient as he has this innate ability to read between lines and/or see what is not there. I think there is a couch in his future!

I am not going to waste five minutes of my life arguing with someone who will not get off their hobbyhorse. But he gave good advice on this occasion and it probably wasn't an accident. I am being specific.

 

[VeloFlash]

I am not going to waste five minutes of my life arguing with someone who will not get off their hobbyhorse. But he gave good advice on this occasion and it probably wasn't an accident. I am being specific.

You have previously reprimanded Flyer for being off topic when he introduced drugs into the thread.

My response to Flyer was for post #25 not #30 where you claim he was specific. Specific he was indeed with #30 for a welcome, if not temporary, change.

Flyer will attempt to hijack a topic to run his (not mine) hobbyhorse. You will note that posts #4, #7, #13, (your) #16, #26 and #36 were indirectly or openly critical of his off topic change of direction.

His obsession with doping and his thread hijacking caused Cycling Forums to open a "Doping" category forum. I have no doubt that the category was recently closed down through Flyer's over zealous and unsubstantiated posts and his avoidance to debate. It had become Flyer's personal soapbox.

Back to the topic.

I had read some time ago that endurance riding of 7 plus hours a week without compensatory anaerobic hard exercise will affect testosterone levels (reduction).

Pre event sex will reduce male testosterone levels but, on the contrary, increase female testosterone levels (German study). That is levelling the playing field.