General fitness, health and nutrition · Public discussion

coumadin ?

Started by Mick Williams · · Last activity · 83 posts · 4,970 views

This thread is locked and is currently read-only.

Thread navigation

Jump through the discussion

Go to the original post, the replies on this page, or the latest preserved contribution.

Thread details

What we know about this thread

Original section
General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
1 November 2003
Last activity
1 November 2003
Original author
Mick Williams
Posts
83
Discussion status
Public discussion
Total views
4,970
Views / 30 days
0
Topics

The navigation and discussion metadata provide context. Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Showing posts 1–20 of 83
Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Text size
  1. Hi

    My father has just been informed by his Dr. that he will need to start taking this drug for atrial
    fibrillation. He is 64 and deathly afraid of taking coumadin. Several people he knew (including his
    brother, whom I believe died of complications while on coumadin) have not had much luck on this
    medication.

    I have been looking online for alternatives, and the information I have found seems to be both dated
    and conflicting.

    My question: What, if anything, can my father do to avoid taking this? He is not in the best of
    health, and his diet leaves something to be desired. Is a lifestyle change enough to stagger the
    necessity of taking blood-thinning medication?

    I am quite sure there exists no magic answer to my questions; however, even precautions against
    certain alternatives would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks in advance,

    Mick Williams, Jr.

  2. "Mick Williams, Jr." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Hi

    My father has just been informed by his Dr. that he will need to start taking this drug for atrial
    fibrillation. He is 64 and deathly afraid of taking coumadin. Several people he knew (including
    his brother, whom I believe died of complications while on coumadin) have not had much luck on
    this medication.

    I have been looking online for alternatives, and the information I have found seems to be both
    dated and conflicting.

    My question: What, if anything, can my father do to avoid taking this? He is not in the best of
    health, and his diet leaves something to be desired. Is a lifestyle change enough to stagger the
    necessity of taking blood-thinning medication?

    I am quite sure there exists no magic answer to my questions; however, even precautions against
    certain alternatives would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks in advance,

    Mick Williams, Jr.


    Mick, you might find more help in one of the Herbal Medicine groups. That said, I think you might
    want to talk with a Doctor of Chinese Medicine.

  3. "Mick Williams, Jr." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Hi

    My father has just been informed by his Dr. that he will need to start taking this drug for atrial
    fibrillation. He is 64 and deathly afraid of taking coumadin. Several people he knew (including
    his brother, whom I believe died of complications while on coumadin) have not had much luck on
    this medication.

    I have been looking online for alternatives, and the information I have found seems to be both
    dated and conflicting.

    My question: What, if anything, can my father do to avoid taking this? He is not in the best of
    health, and his diet leaves something to be desired. Is a lifestyle change enough to stagger the
    necessity of taking blood-thinning medication?

    I am quite sure there exists no magic answer to my questions; however, even precautions against
    certain alternatives would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks in advance,

    Mick Williams, Jr.

    Mick,

    As a fellow sufferer (afib - probably for the rest of my life - I'm 57) let me reassure you. Whilst
    there may be some people that suffer ill-effects the vast majority don't. Provided the INR
    monitoring regime is adhered to there should be no reason why your father should worry about this.
    However, if he doesn't take it then there is a serious risk of blood clots which could very
    seriously endanger his health. I don't believe there is any effective alternative (i've asked)
    although I understand something better will be available within a year in UK. Nor do I believe that
    a lifestyle change will make any difference - beyond that necessary, of course, to live with
    Coumadin. Living with Coumadin is better than dying without it!

    Good luck

    Chas

  4. The risk of not taking the anticoagulant coumadin is a lot greater than taking it. There are tons of
    people out there taking coumadin and it is relatively safe. He just needs to have periodic
    Prothrombin Times drawn to make sure he is getting the right dose.

    Jr.) said:

    Hi

    My father has just been informed by his Dr. that he will need to start taking this drug for atrial
    fibrillation. He is 64 and deathly afraid of taking coumadin. Several people he knew (including his
    brother, whom I believe died of complications while on coumadin) have not had much luck on this
    medication.

    I have been looking online for alternatives, and the information I have found seems to be both
    dated and conflicting.

    My question: What, if anything, can my father do to avoid taking this? He is not in the best of
    health, and his diet leaves something to be desired. Is a lifestyle change enough to stagger the
    necessity of taking blood-thinning medication?

    I am quite sure there exists no magic answer to my questions; however, even precautions against
    certain alternatives would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks in advance,

    Mick Williams, Jr.

  5. In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Mick

    Williams said:

    Hi

    My father has just been informed by his Dr. that he will need to start taking this drug for atrial
    fibrillation. He is 64 and deathly afraid of taking coumadin. Several people he knew (including
    his brother, whom I believe died of complications while on coumadin) have not had much luck on
    this medication.

    I have been looking online for alternatives, and the information I have found seems to be both
    dated and conflicting.

    My question: What, if anything, can my father do to avoid taking this? He is not in the best of
    health, and his diet leaves something to be desired. Is a lifestyle change enough to stagger the
    necessity of taking blood-thinning medication?

    There are a number of natural blood-thinning supplements. You might want to look up garlic,
    valerian, red clover‹etc., etc. If you are lucky enough to find a doctor who is also familiar with
    alternative medicine (look for the letters "DO" along with "MD"😉 and/or read up on everything you
    can find in Google (including side effects for each thing you find!) your father may not have to
    take the coumadin.

    For what it's worth, CoQ10 has been credited with modifying the arrhythmia or in some cases, I
    think, overcoming it. Also, there are procedures (some less drastic than others) that I understand
    can restore natural heart rhythm. I've also read that, according to one opinion, the rhythm is less
    important than the heart rate.

    I ran into the same problem and was afraid of the coumadin and other prescriptions. Currently I'm
    using supplements and so far, apparently, so good. However, I'm not a doctor, so of course all this
    is simply by way of suggestion.

    Good luck!

    Beth

    Quoted message said:


    I am quite sure there exists no magic answer to my questions; however, even precautions against
    certain alternatives would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks in advance,

    Mick Williams, Jr.

  6. "Mick Williams, Jr." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Hi

    My father has just been informed by his Dr. that he will need to start taking this drug for atrial
    fibrillation. He is 64 and deathly afraid of taking coumadin. Several people he knew (including
    his brother, whom I believe died of complications while on coumadin) have not had much luck on
    this medication.

    I have been looking online for alternatives, and the information I have found seems to be both
    dated and conflicting.

    My question: What, if anything, can my father do to avoid taking this? He is not in the best of
    health, and his diet leaves something to be desired. Is a lifestyle change enough to stagger the
    necessity of taking blood-thinning medication?

    I am quite sure there exists no magic answer to my questions; however, even precautions against
    certain alternatives would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks in advance,

    Mick Williams, Jr.

    Mick,

    In my opinion Coumadin is safe and effective when taken and monitored properly. Blood tests are done
    regularly to ensure the blood is thinned to the proper degree.

    Natural products can definitely thin the blood. However, regulations don't ensure that there
    is standardization of the active ingredients. This means you can never be sure of the dose you
    are taking.

    NEVER NEVER NEVER take natural products with Coumadin without a doctor's OK.

    Lifestyle modifications aren't likely to help, except perhaps stress reduction. But that is not a
    sure thing and atrial fibrillation can kill you. Coumadin is a better bet. Hey, do both.

  7. "Mick Williams, Jr." <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    Quoted message said:

    My question: What, if anything, can my father do to avoid taking this?

    He can choose to not take it altogether. There are medications like aspirin that will be of some
    benefit, but much less than warfarin.

    Quoted message said:

    to be desired. Is a lifestyle change enough to stagger the necessity of taking blood-thinning
    medication?

    No.

  8. Sir,

    You're trying to outguess the doctor (s). They don't put patients on warfarin lightly, it will
    extend their lives. They are aware of the serious side effects. You must be too, and avoid them.

    The most important thing to do when taking warfarin is to follow through on the lab test ordered . .
    . "Pro times" (prothrombin time). That lets the Doctor regulate the dosage. Without the drug, your
    father could expire, it's that simple. Take the dose ordered, when ordered, in the amount ordered,
    based on the laboratory tests ordered by the doctor.

    Do what the doctor says, and for his sake, forget the suggestion to take herbs.

    Will, crna

  9. Mick:

    Quoted message said:

    My question: What, if anything, can my father do to avoid taking this? He is not in the best of
    health, and his diet leaves something to be desired. Is a lifestyle change enough to stagger the
    necessity of taking blood-thinning medication?

    Under no circumstances listen to anyone advising you to seek alternative therapy for your father's
    illness. There is no substitute for coumadin therapy in this situation. Anyone advising you
    otherwise is dispensing bad advice and should your father follow such advice, he will shorten his
    life. Wishing that alternative medicine worked as well as Western medicine will never make it so.

    --
    Stev Lenon MT(ASCP) Confused? Listen to the music play! Save a cow, eat a PETA member
    [email hidden] web.tampabay.rr.comslhomepage92kword.htm

  10. (Mick Williams said:

    My father has just been informed by his Dr. that he will need to start taking this drug for atrial
    fibrillation. He is 64 and deathly afraid of taking coumadin. Several people he knew (including his
    brother, whom I believe died of complications while on coumadin) have not had much luck on this
    medication.

    Quoted message said:

    I have been looking online for alternatives, and the information I have found seems to be both
    dated and conflicting.

    There is little that can replace it when you really need it.

    Quoted message said:

    My question: What, if anything, can my father do to avoid taking this? He is not in the best of
    health, and his diet leaves something to be desired. Is a lifestyle change enough to stagger the
    necessity of taking blood-thinning medication?

    No. Coumadin helps prevent blood clots from forming in the veins, breaking loose and travelling to
    the lungs, where is is what is know as a "pulmonary embolism" and a rapidly fatal condition. That's
    what killed David Bloom, the new anchor, in Iraq. He had a pulmonary embolism.

    Better diet and moderate exercise will help his overall health, but if he's forming "deep vein
    thromboses", he needs it.

    He should take it STRICTLY according to schedule and put up with all the testing required to get the
    dosage right.

    Quoted message said:

    I am quite sure there exists no magic answer to my questions; however, even precautions against
    certain alternatives would be greatly appreciated.

    Coumadin is an anti-coagulant ... so he has to avoid accidentally taking anticoagulants. That will
    make him too suceptible to the bleeding incidents.

    He should avoid ALL herbal remedies and nutritional supplements until he investigates them. Many
    plants have anti-coagulant acvtivity and he could overmedicate. Ginseng and Ginko are two of the
    worst, but all herbal supplements should be treated with caution. Look up the herb name and the word
    anticoagulant and then platelet at a place like HerbMed or ask on alt.folklore.herbs If a remedy
    claims to inprove cirsulation, it probably decreases coagulation.

    HE MUST AVOID ASPIRIN! It's a fairly strong anti-coagulant.

    He should also avoid excessive Vitamin E and K

    Heck, avoid excessive anything ...

    Tsu

    --
    To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense
    with the necessity of reflection.
    - Jules Henri Poincaré

  11. [email hidden] (Mick Williams, Jr.) wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Hi

    My father has just been informed by his Dr. that he will need to start taking this drug for atrial
    fibrillation. He is 64 and deathly afraid of taking coumadin. Several people he knew (including
    his brother, whom I believe died of complications while on coumadin) have not had much luck on
    this medication.

    I have been looking online for alternatives, and the information I have found seems to be both
    dated and conflicting.

    My question: What, if anything, can my father do to avoid taking this? He is not in the best of
    health, and his diet leaves something to be desired. Is a lifestyle change enough to stagger the
    necessity of taking blood-thinning medication?

    I am quite sure there exists no magic answer to my questions; however, even precautions against
    certain alternatives would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks in advance,

    Mick Williams, Jr.

    Beware of some of the advice you are getting here. Coumadin (warfarin), when monitored on a regular
    basis is literally a life saving drug. Some people may be told to take a daily aspirin rather than
    use warfarin but these are patients who are generally at great risk if they use warfarin such as
    having a risk of falling (if you bang your head on the cement while on warfarin the resulting
    intracranial bleed can be fatal).

    Patients do not have to avoid foods containing vitamin K (green, leafy vegetables and others). What
    they have to do is to maintain a constant amount of these foods in their diet over the week. Dosing
    can easily be done around the types of food one eats if it remains somewhat constant. Nor do they
    have to avoid aspirin necessarily, many patients on warfarin take a daily aspirin as well.

    The best thing to make sure of is that your father gets some education in regards to this drug.
    There are lots of drug interactions and dietary considerations to be aware of, all of which can be
    worked around as long the prescriber of warfarin is aware of these things. If he has access to an
    anti-coagulation clinic, all the better. They should give him education regarding diet, drug
    interactions, side effects and things to look out for. You should not accept his doc just writing a
    prescription and sending him to the pharmacy to have it filled and return in 6 months. Until they
    find a stable dose for him he might need weekly monitoring/lab work.

    This drug is a life saver when used correctly. If not, it can be fatal, but so is a stroke. I don't
    mean to scare you about his using warfarin but a healthy respect for this drug is essential to
    successful use.

  12. Jr.) said:

    Hi

    My father has just been informed by his Dr. that he will need to start taking this drug for atrial
    fibrillation. He is 64 and deathly afraid of taking coumadin.

    I don't know why he is so afraid of this drug. I had AF but had ablation for it at the same time as
    a replacement mitral valve. Most of the time now I am in sinus rhythm but will still take coumadin
    for the rest of my life because of the new valve. Its not a problem; just inconvenient having
    regular tests. I have not met anyone who cannot tolerate it. Diana

  13. (Mick Williams said:

    Hi

    My father has just been informed by his Dr. that he will need to start taking this drug for atrial
    fibrillation. He is 64 and deathly afraid of taking coumadin. Several people he knew (including his
    brother, whom I believe died of complications while on coumadin) have not had much luck on this
    medication.

    I have been looking online for alternatives, and the information I have found seems to be both
    dated and conflicting.

    My question: What, if anything, can my father do to avoid taking this? He is not in the best of
    health, and his diet leaves something to be desired. Is a lifestyle change enough to stagger the
    necessity of taking blood-thinning medication?

    I am quite sure there exists no magic answer to my questions; however, even precautions against
    certain alternatives would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks in advance,

    Mick Williams, Jr.

    Coumadin (Warfarin) is potentially life-saving in atrial fibrillation. Strokes are common with
    atrial fibrillation when anticoagulants are not used.

    There are, of course, potential complications associated with the use of anticoagulants. Careful
    management by competent medical people minimizes those risks. The risk of stroke (without
    anticoagulants) is far higher than the risks of anticoagulants.

    One thing to be careful of with Coumadin is the fact that there are some interactions with other
    common medications which can make Coumadin more or less effective. You must make sure that the
    doctor managing the anticoagulant therapy knows about *all* medications (including the "alternative"
    ones) that the patient is taking.

    Best,

    Bob

    Robert A. Fink, M.D., FACS, P. C. 2500 Milvia Street Suite 222 Berkeley, California 94704-2636 USA
    Telephone: 510-849-2555 FAX: 510-849-2557 <http://www.rafink.com>

    "Ex Tristitia Virtus"

  14. ???? ????????? ?? ?????????? ??????????? ?? ???????????? ?????? ??????? ???????? ??????, ?????
    ???? 2003 ????

  15. Stroke is not pretty. My mother-in-law, who had suffered from CLL (chronic lymphocytic leukemia) for
    almost ten years, began to experience atrial fibrillation. It was discovered that she had a damaged
    mitral valve, probably from rheumatic fever as a child. Because of her CLL, her platelet count was
    low and her white count was high, i.e. she was a complicated case. She messed around with putting
    off treatment for most of the summer, and, after collapsing in the back yard in early August of '95,
    finally went in to the hospital. She was put on Coumadin preoperatively, I believe (it was back in
    '95 so it's hard to remember) and she was given platelets, I believe, so she could have the valve
    replacement surgery, which did not take place until September..

    The surgery went fine. She was weaned from Coumadin to heparin post-operatively, and was ready to go
    home. The story as far as I understand it, was that she was being weaned from heparin back to
    Coumadin when she threw a clot and had a massive stroke on the left side of her brain, which affects
    the right side of your body.

    Since she was still in a step-down unit, and her doc had JUST been in to see her (was even out in
    the hallway when this happened) they rushed her to Neuro ICU and we, the family, were called. It was
    not pretty.

    Strokes that affect your right side affect your ability to talk and walk. She was totally paralyzed
    on her right side and never spoke words again. She eventually could point to things and say "nee nee
    nee" and "ah" (for yes, I think) but that was all. It was months before she could even do that, and
    then only after a lot of therapy. She was stuck in a wheelchair for the rest of her life. She was 71
    when this happened.

    Without the Coumadin and the valve surgery she surely would have died. The atrial fibrillation was
    still there, even with the new valve. She was in a rock and a hard place. She would have surely had
    a stroke and died without the surgery or the Coumadin. She screwed around too long, I think, by
    trying to hide the fact from us that she was having problems, as she was a stoic who could "overcome
    things" somehow by not resorting to medications, whatever, Her stoicism might eventually have cost
    her her life, although it's hard to say whether the same thing would have happened had she had the
    valve surgery sooner.

    She lived for a little over a year and a half after the stroke, but in a nursing home. My inlaws in
    another state agreed to take her into their house and care for her around the clock, and, after a
    little over a year, and many complications, she was well enough to move. She was there for about a
    month when she developed a bowel obstruction. No surgeon would touch her, considering her history
    and the ongoing CLL, and she passed away in March, '97.

    My take on this is, don't screw around debating about Coumadin. I think if she had started on some
    sort of therapy sooner, and gotten her valve replaced before she was in such bad shape, she may not
    have thrown the clot. Her doctor said she was the first patient of his who had had a stroke
    post-surgery in over two years, and this was a large hospital and a very busy group.

    I don't think it's the Coumadin killing off patients so much as the underlying condition that made
    them have to go on Coumadin in the first place. Please keep that in mind. Serious conditions like
    atrial fibrillation don't give one a whole lot of choices other than Coumadin in the way of
    anticoagulation. Without anticoagulation, you get clots - it's as simple as that. Clots = strokes.
    Without Coumadin and the valve replacement, my mother-in-law would surely have died much sooner.
    Statistically, there was only a 3-5% chance of her having a stroke post surgery. All you can do is
    play the odds in situations like this. Unfortunately, she lost.

    Once your father decides on Coumadin, it is important that he go to the same laboratory facility
    each time to get his protimes done, as it's best to have the same equipment perform the testing each
    time. Each laboratory may use a different brand of reagents or equipment, and when you're
    calculating INR's, consistency is the watchword.

    Good luck.

    Judy Dilworth, M.T. (ASCP) Microbiology

    Mick Williams said:

    Hi

    My father has just been informed by his Dr. that he will need to start taking this drug for atrial
    fibrillation. He is 64 and deathly afraid of taking coumadin. Several people he knew (including
    his brother, whom I believe died of complications while on coumadin) have not had much luck on
    this medication.

  16. Your risk of stoke rises by a factor of 7 without Coumadin in A-fib. It's one of the few places
    where there aren't yet any other good choices. I know of at least one alternative drug in the
    pipeline, but it's still in trials. A few years away.

    With newer ways of testing effect (INR) coumadin's a much safer drug than it was 10 or 20 years ago.
    Bite the bullet and do it.

    SBH

    "tools" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]
    t...

    Quoted message said:


    "Mick Williams, Jr." <[email hidden]> wrote in


    message

    Quoted message said:

    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Hi

    My father has just been informed by his Dr. that he will


    need to start

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    taking this drug for atrial fibrillation. He is 64 and


    deathly afraid

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    of taking coumadin. Several people he knew (including


    his brother,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    whom I believe died of complications while on coumadin)


    have not had

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    much luck on this medication.

    I have been looking online for alternatives, and the


    information I

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    have found seems to be both dated and conflicting.

    My question: What, if anything, can my father do to


    avoid taking

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    this? He is not in the best of health, and his diet


    leaves something

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    to be desired. Is a lifestyle change enough to stagger


    the necessity

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    of taking blood-thinning medication?

    I am quite sure there exists no magic answer to my


    questions;

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    however, even precautions against certain alternatives


    would be

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    greatly appreciated.

    Thanks in advance,

    Mick Williams, Jr.


    Mick, you might find more help in one of the Herbal


    Medicine groups. That

    Quoted message said:

    said, I think you might want to talk with a Doctor of


    Chinese Medicine.

  17. "Beth Gottschalk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden] ell.net...

    Quoted message said:

    In article


    <[email hidden]>,

    Quoted message said:

    [email hidden] (Mick Williams, Jr.) wrote: There are a number of natural
    blood-thinning supplements.


    You might

    Quoted message said:

    want to look up garlic, valerian, red clover‹etc., etc.


    If you are lucky

    Quoted message said:

    enough to find a doctor who is also familiar with


    alternative medicine

    Quoted message said:

    (look for the letters "DO" along with "MD"😉 and/or read up


    on everything

    Quoted message said:

    you can find in Google (including side effects for each


    thing you find!)

    Quoted message said:

    your father may not have to take the coumadin.

    No such luck. D.O.'s are slightly differently trained by they are not imcompetent. Any D.O. will
    tell him just the same as any M.D. "Get yourself on coumadin".

    Quoted message said:

    For what it's worth, CoQ10 has been credited with


    modifying the

    Quoted message said:

    arrhythmia or in some cases, I think, overcoming it.

    No good evidence. There are antiarrhythmic meds, also, but they fail once the atria are larger than
    a certain size. And nothing helps this rhythm after you've been in it for more than a year, since
    your atrial walls become fibrosed. If you don't move any of your other muscles for a year, something
    similar would happen to them also.

    Also, there are

    Quoted message said:

    procedures (some less drastic than others) that I


    understand can restore

    Quoted message said:

    natural heart rhythm. I've also read that, according to


    one opinion, the

    Quoted message said:

    rhythm is less important than the heart rate.

    We're talking about stroke.

    Quoted message said:

    I ran into the same problem and was afraid of the coumadin


    and other

    Quoted message said:

    prescriptions. Currently I'm using supplements and so


    far, apparently,

    Quoted message said:

    so good.

    Great. But when you stroke out with a big clot to your left MCA, we won't be hearing from you here,
    will we? Or perhaps maybe "9slknwjcbkjwbrkjba" from your address if your physical therapist manages
    to log you on.

    Don't give advice on life and death matters, if you're completely clueless about the subject you're
    talking about.

    SBH

  18. Please, please, please - talk with your MD / DO before acting on the advice of the alternative
    medicine crowd.

    If you feel the need to get a second MEDICAL opinion, then get it without delay.

    And if you decide that you want to go the herbal feel-good route, then ask the purveyor
    one question:

    Where is the double-blind, placebo controlled, peer-reviewed study that supports the efficacy and
    safety of their root / leaf / magic powder of-the-day in reducing / eliminating blood clots in
    a-fib? (Hint: they won't have one.)

    Stroke is a serious risk in those with atrial fibrillation. If you're lucky, it'll kill you quickly.
    If not, you'll spend the rest of your life getting fed through a tube, while you rot in your
    persistent vegetative state.

    Please don't take this lightly. Stroke is a rotten way to die.

    Charlie

    "tools" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Mick Williams, Jr." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Hi

    My father has just been informed by his Dr. that he will need to start taking this drug for
    atrial fibrillation. He is 64 and deathly afraid of taking coumadin. Several people he knew
    (including his brother, whom I believe died of complications while on coumadin) have not had
    much luck on this medication.

    I have been looking online for alternatives, and the information I have found seems to be both
    dated and conflicting.

    My question: What, if anything, can my father do to avoid taking this? He is not in the best of
    health, and his diet leaves something to be desired. Is a lifestyle change enough to stagger the
    necessity of taking blood-thinning medication?

    I am quite sure there exists no magic answer to my questions; however, even precautions against
    certain alternatives would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks in advance,

    Mick Williams, Jr.


    Mick, you might find more help in one of the Herbal Medicine groups. That said, I think you might
    want to talk with a Doctor of Chinese Medicine.

  19. (Beth Gottschalk) said:

    There are a number of natural blood-thinning supplements. You might want to look up garlic,
    valerian, red clover‹etc., etc.

    None of which have the controlled effect of coumadin ... thye are not testered for anti-coagulant
    effect and may vary from weak to strong from batch to batch.

    Tsu

    --
    To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense
    with the necessity of reflection.
    - Jules Henri Poincaré

  20. Tsu Dho Nimh said:


    (Mick Williams said:

    My father has just been informed by his Dr. that he will need to start taking this drug for
    atrial fibrillation. He is 64 and deathly afraid of taking coumadin. Several people he knew
    (including his brother, whom I believe died of complications while on coumadin) have not had much
    luck on this medication.

    Quoted message said:

    I have been looking online for alternatives, and the information I have found seems to be both
    dated and conflicting.

    There is little that can replace it when you really need it.

    Quoted message said:

    My question: What, if anything, can my father do to avoid taking this? He is not in the best of
    health, and his diet leaves something to be desired. Is a lifestyle change enough to stagger the
    necessity of taking blood-thinning medication?

    No. Coumadin helps prevent blood clots from forming in the veins, breaking loose and travelling to
    the lungs, where is is what is know as a "pulmonary embolism" and a rapidly fatal condition.
    That's what killed David Bloom, the new anchor, in Iraq. He had a pulmonary embolism.

    Better diet and moderate exercise will help his overall health, but if he's forming "deep vein
    thromboses", he needs it.

    He should take it STRICTLY according to schedule and put up with all the testing required to get
    the dosage right.

    Quoted message said:

    I am quite sure there exists no magic answer to my questions; however, even precautions against
    certain alternatives would be greatly appreciated.

    Coumadin is an anti-coagulant ... so he has to avoid accidentally taking anticoagulants. That will
    make him too suceptible to the bleeding incidents.

    He should avoid ALL herbal remedies and nutritional supplements until he investigates them. Many
    plants have anti-coagulant acvtivity and he could overmedicate. Ginseng and Ginko are two of the
    worst, but all herbal supplements should be treated with caution. Look up the herb name and the
    word anticoagulant and then platelet at a place like HerbMed or ask on alt.folklore.herbs If a
    remedy claims to inprove cirsulation, it probably decreases coagulation.

    HE MUST AVOID ASPIRIN! It's a fairly strong anti-coagulant.

    Also fish oil supplements.

    Quoted message said:


    He should also avoid excessive Vitamin E and K

    Quoted message said:


    Heck, avoid excessive anything ...

    Tsu

    --
    To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense
    with the necessity of reflection.
    - Jules Henri Poincaré

Active in the last 60 minutes

Active in this thread

0 users · 0 guests ·0 bots ·0 total

No signed-in users are active right now.

No known search crawlers active right now.