ceramic range tops

George said:

Dee Dee said:

Here in the US, there are notices on every product that I've purchased

about

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the energy consumption. It's always been a consideration to me.

People always are making blanket statements regarding the U.S.'s

thinking on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

just about everything and offering their opinions about the pysche of
America --

Dee Dee

I live in the US and there are lots of single occupant drivers of
trucks driven as a fashion statement wasting millions of gallons of
gasoline every day for which we compensate by grinding up corn to make
ethanol which has significantly increased the price of anything using
the corn such as poultry, milk etc. Anyone observing this could rightly
shake their head.

In the above statement you could substitute "Germany" for "US", and
"expensive Mercedes/Porsches/Audis..." for "trucks"...and in Germany there
is no or a very high speed limit donchyaknow...

Anyone observing this (in Germany) could rightly shake their head...

:-)

Did you know that many urban Chinese have abandoned bikes and are buying
shiny new cars, especially Buicks, Buicks are the best - selling "foreign"
brand in China. Oh those wasteful Chinese...!!!

--
Best
Greg

Ophelia said:

Peter A said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Okay, even though I've driven a European car or two and they
use as much oil as any of my other cars, maybe you mean those
tiny cars. Regardless, I understand what you're saying, but I think
maybe you said this before? that our appliances are energy hogs.
That the US doesn't care about energy efficient appliances, and
that's not true.

Yes, I've been in places where the air conditioning is freezing cold,
but most of the time it's not that cold. Certainly not in my house.

Per capita energy consumption, kg of oil equivalent, year 2003

US: 7794
Spain 3228
United Kingdom 3918
Germany 4203
France 4518
Italy 3127
Belgium 5703
Japan 4040
Europe as a whole 3698

Case closed.

Where did these stats come from Peter?

Don't mind Peter, he's just being belligerent...

:-)

Besides the raw data he presents, you have to factor in things like physical
size of the nation, transportation modes, population, per capita
income/output, climate etc...

Frex, air con is widely used in places like Texas, the US South, etc. Many
European locales don't have much of a need for air con ('though this is
changing). Buying an air con unit in the UK is a rather expensive
proposition. Here in the states you can pick up a simple window unit for
less than $100.00, if you could find something similar in the UK it would
cost many times that. Cheap air con is simply not a part of everyday life
in the UK. Here it is, it's cheap so people of course buy it...air con in
the US was once an expensive luxury, now most everybody can enjoy it to some
extent, even if they have a modest income.

We don't use more energy because one day we just woke up and said, "Hey,
let's waste energy!". We use the energy because in our particular situation
we *need* it...we aren't the biggest economy in the world for nothing, you
know.

:-)

--
Best
Greg

"George" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dee Dee said:

Here in the US, there are notices on every product that I've purchased
about the energy consumption. It's always been a consideration to me.

People always are making blanket statements regarding the U.S.'s thinking
on just about everything and offering their opinions about the pysche of
America --

Dee Dee

I live in the US and there are lots of single occupant drivers of trucks
driven as a fashion statement wasting millions of gallons of gasoline
every day for which we compensate by grinding up corn to make ethanol
which has significantly increased the price of anything using the corn
such as poultry, milk etc. Anyone observing this could rightly shake their
head.

That's a government decision. I didn't vote for it.

Yes, I rightly shake my head, too. But I try not to make a blanket
statement about all Russians, all Germans, etc. But it seems U.S. is fair
game for just about everyone to discuss with derision.

Dee Dee

"Nathalie Chiva" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

From the amount of oil that US cars use compared to Europeans cars,
from the widespread use of air conditioning (so cold that you often
have to wear a jacket even if it's scalding hot outside...), even when
it's not necessary, and all that sort of thing.

Nathalie in Switzerland

Nathalie you might like to know that perhaps things changed a wee bit this
summer. I usually carry a jacket just to go inside to a restaurant, but
this year, it has been carried in vain.

The "average" people here haven't the money to pay for extra heat, extra
air-conditioning and all those wasteful things you think is happening.

Most people here are average.
Dee Dee

Giusi said:

The glass cooker I used did mop up fast, but it still looked crappy until I
moistened it again and rubbed it with a towel. There was just too much
guess work using it. Not a hit.

I move heaven and earth to avoid scratching my smooth top, yet I've
still managed to make small scratches caused by I don't know what. To
keep it looking good, it needs to be cleaned up immediately, even while
cooking is in progress. And with all precautions taken to prevent
scorching and burned on food, it still looks kinda crappy until its been
scrubbed and *polished* after use.

Sheldon mentioned that the top stays hot for a while, too hot for cats.
My vexation is that once polished up the cat leaves footprints on it.
They can't do that on a porcelain gas rangetop, now can they!

"Dee Dee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Nathalie Chiva" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message

Quoted message said:

From the amount of oil that US cars use compared to Europeans cars,
from the widespread use of air conditioning (so cold that you often
have to wear a jacket even if it's scalding hot outside...), even when
it's not necessary, and all that sort of thing.

Nathalie in Switzerland

Nathalie you might like to know that perhaps things changed a wee bit this
summer. I usually carry a jacket just to go inside to a restaurant, but
this year, it has been carried in vain.

The "average" people here haven't the money to pay for extra heat, extra
air-conditioning and all those wasteful things you think is happening.

Most people here are average.
Dee Dee

I made a mistake, showing my ignorance; this sentence is entirely wrong:
"Most' people here are average." That could not be the case. Average is
average; average can never represent 'most.'
Well, you know what I mean - hopefully.;-)

Dee Dee

Dee wrote on Wed, 5 Sep 2007 12:42:26 -0400:

DD> "Dee Dee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
DD> news:[email hidden]...
??>>
??>> "Nathalie Chiva"
??>> <[email hidden]> wrote in
??>> message
??>>>
??>>> From the amount of oil that US cars use compared to
??>>> Europeans cars, from the widespread use of air
??>>> conditioning (so cold that you often have to wear a
??>>> jacket even if it's scalding hot outside...), even
??>>> when it's not necessary, and all that sort of thing.
??>>>
??>>> Nathalie in Switzerland
??>>
??>> Nathalie you might like to know that perhaps things
??>> changed a wee bit this summer. I usually carry a jacket
??>> just to go inside to a restaurant, but this year, it has
??>> been carried in vain.
??>>
??>> The "average" people here haven't the money to pay for
??>> extra heat, extra air-conditioning and all those wasteful
??>> things you think is happening.
??>>
??>> Most people here are average.
??>> Dee Dee
??>>
DD> I made a mistake, showing my ignorance; this sentence is
DD> entirely wrong: "Most' people here are average." That
could not
DD> be the case. Average is average; average can never
DD> represent 'most.' Well, you know what I mean -
DD> hopefully.;-)

Didn't someone say that half the medical schools in the US are
below average? Not precisely true I guess unless one says "below
the median" but near enough!

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

Gregory Morrow said:

Ophelia said:

Peter A said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...
> Okay, even though I've driven a European car or two and they
> use as much oil as any of my other cars, maybe you mean those
> tiny cars. Regardless, I understand what you're saying, but I
> think maybe you said this before? that our appliances are energy
> hogs. That the US doesn't care about energy efficient appliances,
> and that's not true.
>
> Yes, I've been in places where the air conditioning is freezing
> cold, but most of the time it's not that cold. Certainly not in
> my house.
>

Per capita energy consumption, kg of oil equivalent, year 2003

US: 7794
Spain 3228
United Kingdom 3918
Germany 4203
France 4518
Italy 3127
Belgium 5703
Japan 4040
Europe as a whole 3698

Case closed.

Where did these stats come from Peter?

Don't mind Peter, he's just being belligerent...

I don't mind, I am just interested in where the data came from. I am not
contesting it at all, I just prefer to go to the root of statistics🙂

Quoted message said:

:-)

Besides the raw data he presents, you have to factor in things like
physical size of the nation, transportation modes, population, per
capita income/output, climate etc...

Frex, air con is widely used in places like Texas, the US South, etc.
Many European locales don't have much of a need for air con ('though
this is changing). Buying an air con unit in the UK is a rather
expensive proposition. Here in the states you can pick up a simple
window unit for less than $100.00, if you could find something
similar in the UK it would cost many times that. Cheap air con is
simply not a part of everyday life in the UK. Here it is, it's cheap
so people of course buy it...air con in the US was once an expensive
luxury, now most everybody can enjoy it to some extent, even if they
have a modest income.

We don't use more energy because one day we just woke up and said,
"Hey, let's waste energy!". We use the energy because in our
particular situation we *need* it...we aren't the biggest economy in
the world for nothing, you know.

Thanks Greg

Nathalie Chiva said:

On Wed, 5 Sep 2007 09:23:16 -0400, "Nancy Young" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Dee Dee" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Nathalie Chiva" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Sure, but isn't it a huge electricity consumer? Energy consumption is
> about the most significant difference between old refrigerators and
> new ones - new ones use a fraction of what the old ones use. And I
> know that in the US it's not deemed important, but that's a shame :-(.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Here in the US, there are notices on every product that I've purchased
about the energy consumption. It's always been a consideration to me.

Quoted message said:

I don't know where Nathalie got that idea.

From the amount of oil that US cars use compared to Europeans cars,

Anticipated oil consumption is not actual consumption.. the ratings
given to motor vehicles is only the amount a vehicle will consume if
it's used... sticker values mean little to nothing. I know many folks
who have an SUV but clock many more miles on there compact, many even
as much as possible ride motor cycles.. I don't know of anyone who
whenever the conditions permit (mostly weather) will choose the S U V
over the H A W G.

Quoted message said:

from the widespread use of air conditioning (so cold that you often
have to wear a jacket even if it's scalding hot outside...), even when
it's not necessary, and all that sort of thing.

The vast majority of US households don't have central air, most have
no air condioners at all, and of those who do most are very frugal
regarding its use. My neighbor has no ac, they live in their basement
during heat waves, most rural areas the same. In the US it's mostly
businesses that have AC, but many bodies benefit simultaneously. The
same is true regarding heating, most residenses are very frugal, even
businesses keep the thermostats set rather low in winter. Better than
half my neighbors have no central heating system, they use wood
stoves.

Actually the main difference is that the European division of wealth
is far more one sided than in the US, not much different than many
third world countries... a far greater proportion in the US can afford
more luxuries.. we eat better too, MUCH better... because a MUCH
smaller proportion of our income is needed to feed ourselves. We work
harder and longer too... and so we deserve a larger share than you.

But I have to give yoose Euros extra points in on area, us wasteful
Americans sure use a heckova lot more soap and hot water bathing than
yoose. Yeah, yeah, yeah... I know, yoose save on TP too. Most of
yoose don't even have indoor plumbing, your lavatory is a hole in the
floor (with two tiles showing yoose dummies how to set yer feet to
squat), an indoor outhouse is what most of yoose use... and hafta wipe
yer crotch with crepe paper, streeeetch it out and use both sides!

Sheldon Beenthere

In article <[email hidden]>,

Sheldon said:

Omelet said:

Sheldon said:

With gas stoves that have pizeoelectric ignition you can still light
the top burners with a match when the electric goes off. With
electric stoves you're totally out of business. And just because
there is no natural gas available there is no reason you can't have
gas cooking with propane.

Or wood...

Why bother with a stove at all, cook on the hearth, or better yet
outdoors over a campfire, you can impale wooly mammoth ribeye on a
pointy stick... I bet no one needs to teach Om Flintstone how to twirl
meat. hehe

Sheldon Rubble

Point me the way oh Troglodyte mine...
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a [censored]" -- Jack Nicholson

Sheldon said:

But I have to give yoose Euros extra points in on area, us wasteful
Americans sure use a heckova lot more soap and hot water bathing than
yoose. Yeah, yeah, yeah... I know, yoose save on TP too. Most of
yoose don't even have indoor plumbing, your lavatory is a hole in the
floor (with two tiles showing yoose dummies how to set yer feet to
squat), an indoor outhouse is what most of yoose use... and hafta wipe
yer crotch with crepe paper, streeeetch it out and use both sides!

I don't know where you have been but it wasn't UK.

We shower twice a day and not only do we have lavatories but we have a
bidet too!!

I notice when you sneer at us you use very low languages. Perhaps this is
what defines you?

In article <[email hidden]>,

Nathalie Chiva said:

On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 21:03:07 -0500, Omelet <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Sheldon said:

And the main reason your mom's machine lasted 25 years is because even
though they didn't have all the high tech electronics back then
everything else was built to last...

I can't argue with that point. ;-)
My Hobart 'frige is 31 years old now. Granted, I have had to replace the
compressor (2 years ago) but our big GE chest freezer is also that old
and has never (knocks on wood!) needed any repair at all.

Sure, but isn't it a huge electricity consumer? Energy consumption is
about the most significant difference between old refrigerators and
new ones - new ones use a fraction of what the old ones use. And I
know that in the US it's not deemed important, but that's a shame :-(.

Nathalie in Switzerland

Has not seemed to make a significant increase in the Utility bill since
we installed it....
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a [censored]" -- Jack Nicholson

Quoted message said:

People always are making blanket statements regarding the U.S.'s thinking on
just about everything and offering their opinions about the pysche of
America --

Accurate. <G>
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a [censored]" -- Jack Nicholson

In article <[email hidden]>,

George said:

Dee Dee said:

Here in the US, there are notices on every product that I've purchased
about
the energy consumption. It's always been a consideration to me.

People always are making blanket statements regarding the U.S.'s thinking
on
just about everything and offering their opinions about the pysche of
America --

Dee Dee

I live in the US and there are lots of single occupant drivers of
trucks driven as a fashion statement wasting millions of gallons of
gasoline every day for which we compensate by grinding up corn to make
ethanol which has significantly increased the price of anything using
the corn such as poultry, milk etc. Anyone observing this could rightly
shake their head.

One has to ask why the price of diesel is higher than Regular gas.
It's a cheap by-product to be burned by cheap engines.

Methinks someone is profiteering off of us, yet again.

And it drives up the price of food due to deliver costs.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a [censored]" -- Jack Nicholson

Omelet said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

George said:

Dee Dee said:

Here in the US, there are notices on every product that I've purchased
about
the energy consumption. It's always been a consideration to me.

People always are making blanket statements regarding the U.S.'s thinking
on
just about everything and offering their opinions about the pysche of
America --

Dee Dee

I live in the US and there are lots of single occupant drivers of
trucks driven as a fashion statement wasting millions of gallons of
gasoline every day for which we compensate by grinding up corn to make
ethanol which has significantly increased the price of anything using
the corn such as poultry, milk etc. Anyone observing this could rightly
shake their head.

One has to ask why the price of diesel is higher than Regular gas.
It's a cheap by-product to be burned by cheap engines.

Diesel engines are more expensive to produce than gasoline engines.
Diesel fuel is more expensive because there have been a number of staged
requirements that have gone into effect to reduce emissions mostly
related to the amount of sulfur in the fuel. It costs more to remove the
sulfur and since sulfur also performs other functions more expensive
additives need to be added to compensate.

Quoted message said:

Methinks someone is profiteering off of us, yet again.

And it drives up the price of food due to deliver costs.

Sheldon said:

Sheldon Beenthere

But things have changed somewhat since WWII. It was a little bit rough
back then with the war and all...

George wrote on Wed, 05 Sep 2007 14:08:38 -0400:

G> Omelet wrote:
??>> One has to ask why the price of diesel is higher than
??>> Regular gas. It's a cheap by-product to be burned by cheap
??>> engines.

G> Diesel engines are more expensive to produce than gasoline
G> engines. Diesel fuel is more expensive because there have
G> been a number of staged requirements that have gone into
G> effect to reduce emissions mostly related to the amount of
G> sulfur in the fuel. It costs more to remove the sulfur and
G> since sulfur also performs other functions more expensive
G> additives need to be added to compensate.

??>> Methinks someone is profiteering off of us, yet again.
??>>
??>> And it drives up the price of food due to deliver costs.

Diesel fuel was *less* expensive than regular gas at some places
in Rockville, MD last week! In some European countries it is
much less expensive because taxes on it are less than on regular
gas. I seem to remember that this was the case in Germany and
France tho' I only noticed it much on the one occasion where I
rented a diesel car. This was a medium-sized Citroen and it
performed quite adequately.

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

In article <z5BDi.1602$6T5.1494@trnddc06>,

James Silverton said:

Didn't someone say that half the medical schools in the US are
below average? Not precisely true I guess unless one says "below
the median" but near enough!

James Silverton

But the graduates are still called "Dr.".!!!
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a [censored]" -- Jack Nicholson

In article <[email hidden]>,

Pennyaline said:

Giusi said:

The glass cooker I used did mop up fast, but it still looked crappy until I
moistened it again and rubbed it with a towel. There was just too much
guess work using it. Not a hit.

I move heaven and earth to avoid scratching my smooth top, yet I've
still managed to make small scratches caused by I don't know what. To
keep it looking good, it needs to be cleaned up immediately, even while
cooking is in progress. And with all precautions taken to prevent
scorching and burned on food, it still looks kinda crappy until its been
scrubbed and *polished* after use.

Sheldon mentioned that the top stays hot for a while, too hot for cats.
My vexation is that once polished up the cat leaves footprints on it.
They can't do that on a porcelain gas rangetop, now can they!

I've posted pics of mine with no shame. Those are unedited.

What color did you get?
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a [censored]" -- Jack Nicholson

In article <[email hidden]>,

George said:

Quoted message said:

One has to ask why the price of diesel is higher than Regular gas.
It's a cheap by-product to be burned by cheap engines.

Diesel engines are more expensive to produce than gasoline engines.
Diesel fuel is more expensive because there have been a number of staged
requirements that have gone into effect to reduce emissions mostly
related to the amount of sulfur in the fuel. It costs more to remove the
sulfur and since sulfur also performs other functions more expensive
additives need to be added to compensate.

So then why are there so many of them for delivering goods?

That seems kinda stupid.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a [censored]" -- Jack Nicholson