broken clavicle...surgery or not?

[bsbs1876]

Originally Posted by screwed .

thanks! and my hand is much better now, exept for the thumb which is still having problems. but like you said, time and patience is all it takes. I still cant do my job properly, so I'v decided to stop doing it and get a nice simple easy to do job to see me through.
well I don't drive, but I was about to start learning e few weeks before the crash :-(
what kind of job do you guys have? how long were you unable to do it for?

I work a desk job and my doctor said I should be able to return in 2 weeks but I'm thinking it should be earlier than that. What do you guys think? There is no strenuous activity or physically demanding tasks. The only concern is I have a 1 hour commute so I will need to find someone to drive me for a little bit.

 

[mitteg]

bsbs1876,

I was able to drive 3 weeks after the surgery. Let's say 4-weeks until I felt confortable.

Right now, 5 weeks and a half from the operation I have tried to do a 30' running session and I feel quite well. One thing that I feel is that the skin around the injury is still very sensitive. For instance, if I massage myself the zone, it remains sensitive for quite a bit. I must say though that the yellowish color tone has dissappeared at last!

Keep posting your personal progress!

 

[screwed]

bsbs1876; well I guess there is no harm in trying to do something at work, and just see how you get on. thats what I did and quickly realised I couldn't do much at all.
mitteg; very sensitive skin is normal. do you still have numb areas? bruising?

 

[bsbs1876]

Originally Posted by nick00less .

I'm still working on full mobility. I can successfully raise my arm above my head without any pain but it is hard because my arm has atrophied. Once I build back up some muscle there it will be easier.

Hey nick00less,

How are you holding up? Have you returned to work lifting cases of beer?

B

 

[Clara M]

Hi everybody,
haven't been here for a while...just a short update, I didn;t have the surgery ...that bone fragment that was sticking out a little is still there ...I am going to see another surgeon in Hungary in a few days and the rest is history,,,I have some light pain in the morning and some weird pain in my arm anyway I thing I have a frozen shoulder ...would appreciate some explanations about the whole frozen shoulder thing...

cheers

 

[Driver72]

Hi everyone,

Interesting discussion! I've got a question and a piece of advice in one.



My clavicle (which had two loose pieces in the middle after the accident last May) got stabilised with a titanium plate, which was taken out 7 months on. I felt fine for two weeks, then the bone snapped in two again near one of the drill holes (close to one of the original fracture points but not exactly there) when I waved my hand. Importantly, I was not doing any sports or carrying any load at the time, I just waved my hand vigorously one single time, that's all.

There was a lot of swelling and a ping-pong ball-sized protrusion under the skin, just like after the original accident. So I got re-operated and now have the screws back in, with a longer incision this time and some near-stem cells cocktail (NOT ground bone) taken from my hip injected into the bone canal, which has been cleaned. The spare tissue around the clavicle has been removed and everything seems to be looking fine for the moment (well, just two days for now). My advice for everyone, though, is to wait longer before you take out the plate...

...Or is it? Because the doctors tell me I probably had a mal-union, or a "fake joint", there to begin with, meaning that the first operation hadn't entirely been a success, although it did seem so on X-rays. My question is, what could the reason have been? The only thing I can think of is that the first plate was poorly fixated or badly molded and the bone under it kept moving throughout the regrowth period. But perhaps an alternative explanation exists? Any ideas? Was it the doctor's fault or could it be me, somehow (someone here mentioned "cellular problems")? Or do these things just happen from time to time?

Good recovery to all,
B72

 

[willy81]

Driver72,
there is no doubt that this kind of failures are a Doctor's mistake. Probably he took it out too early.
When he/she operated to remove the plates/screws he/she was able to make sure that the bone has formed a perfect union or not and advise you accordingly.
Initially my doctor told me that he will remove my plate in 7 months but after a couple of months told me that I should wait until 18 months post op.
I am sorry for your troubles I hope now you will be fine and if you want to know this is my concern too. My CB seems to have formed a perfect union, so the xrays show, but until I have my plate removed in a 11 months I can't be sure. I do a lot of things, lift weight 20-25 kg easily so far.

 

[bsbs1876]

Originally Posted by Driver72 .

Hi everyone,

Interesting discussion! I've got a question and a piece of advice in one.



My clavicle (which had two loose pieces in the middle after the accident last May) got stabilised with a titanium plate, which was taken out 7 months on. I felt fine for two weeks, then the bone snapped in two again near one of the drill holes (close to one of the original fracture points but not exactly there) when I waved my hand. Importantly, I was not doing any sports or carrying any load at the time, I just waved my hand vigorously one single time, that's all.

There was a lot of swelling and a ping-pong ball-sized protrusion under the skin, just like after the original accident. So I got re-operated and now have the screws back in, with a longer incision this time and some near-stem cells cocktail (NOT ground bone) taken from my hip injected into the bone canal, which has been cleaned. The spare tissue around the clavicle has been removed and everything seems to be looking fine for the moment (well, just two days for now). My advice for everyone, though, is to wait longer before you take out the plate...

...Or is it? Because the doctors tell me I probably had a mal-union, or a "fake joint", there to begin with, meaning that the first operation hadn't entirely been a success, although it did seem so on X-rays. My question is, what could the reason have been? The only thing I can think of is that the first plate was poorly fixated or badly molded and the bone under it kept moving throughout the regrowth period. But perhaps an alternative explanation exists? Any ideas? Was it the doctor's fault or could it be me, somehow (someone here mentioned "cellular problems")? Or do these things just happen from time to time?

Good recovery to all,
B72

A similar thing happened to my friend. He continued smoking after his 2 operations (to put in plate and remove it) and what happened was the screw holes filled in with scar tissue instead of bone. Then a few months or a year after getting the plate out he fell on his shoulder while skateboarding and broke it again. So glad I quit smoking a while ago!

 

[mitteg]

And what has smoking have to do with the bones? Sorry to ask, but is there any relationship?

Thanks

 

[screwed]

Originally Posted by Clara M .

Hi everybody,
haven't been here for a while...just a short update, I didn;t have the surgery ...that bone fragment that was sticking out a little is still there ...I am going to see another surgeon in Hungary in a few days and the rest is history,,,I have some light pain in the morning and some weird pain in my arm anyway I thing I have a frozen shoulder ...would appreciate some explanations about the whole frozen shoulder thing...

cheers

hi there, sorry to hear you're still having some problems.
frozen shoulder is where you haven't moved your arm for a while, and because the muscles haven't been used much, they seize up. (stop working) the skin will also tighten a bit too. Don't worry, this can be sorted at physio, and when that time comes, concentrate on the flexibility first, not the strength.
So, have you seen the xrays? what kind of state is your collar bone in? and how long have you been like this?
I had frozen shoulder and have just start getting full mobility back. at the 8 week check up, we (hospital and I) realized that there was a mix up with addresses (not just me) so the physio team could not contact me, meaning I got frozen shoulder.
when they did the opp on me, there was one piece of bone that was too small to screw, so they just put in place for it to fuse to the rest.
At the 14 week check up, the xray showed that the small piece of bone has moved completely out of place, meaning that there was a gap (indent) in my collar bone, which is now filling in nicely. 2 physios and 2 doc's agree that this turned out to be a handy thing to happen, not good, but it was what I needed. imagine if I'd started physio 2 - 3 weeks after the opp with a piece missing out of my collar bone.
Try to think of the frozen shoulder as if your body is protecting you, its not good, but it might be what you need.
Have you decided to have the surgery, or are you still undecided?

 

[willy81]

Originally Posted by mitteg .

And what has smoking have to do with the bones? Sorry to ask, but is there any relationship?

Thanks

nicotine makes bones brittle but I really doubt this is the reason bsbs1876's friend snapped his collar bone again.
There are several other factors which can be responsible for a second fracture.
It could be removing the plate too early or of a bad union, the latter can be checked by the doctor when he removes the plate

 

[bsbs1876]

According to his doctor the smoking didn't allow the screw holes to fill in with bone properly so they instead filled with scar tissue. This made the bone weak and then he fell on the shoulder while skateboarding and it broke along one of the screw holes. The doctor was pretty upset and told him he wouldn't operate on him because it was a "lost cause". Feel bad for the guy because he definitely needs another plate put back on if his shoulder is gonna be normal again.

Other factors definitely come into play obviously. It wasn't solely the smoking that caused this but it is common sense that smoking delays the healing process and is not good for broken bones. The pamphlet I was given prior to my operation clearly told me not to smoke before or after surgery (mostly for the anaesthetic but also weeks following to allow bone to grow).

 

[Clara M]

Hi!
No I haven't had surgery but in just one day I am going to see another surgeon to see what he has to say and maybe start PT with a specialist because in one day it will be 3 months since the accident and I haven't done much PT just some light flexibility exercises I do alone, my doc showed them to me so I am doing just those for 15 min some 3 time a day!
so not much...I think I have a frozen shoulder because it looks pretty weird when I am trying to hold my hand up ...and I mean the shoulder kind of doesn't let go and seems somehow restricted, no range of motion like the healthy one....and I've got some light pain but not in the clavicle area...weirdly enough it is in the shoulder blade....it makes sense actually coz the clavicle connects through the humerus to the blades
I don't know maybe I should have the surgery coz I fear a life of constant pain ....but it's manageable...even though surgery means rrisk of infection and so many other things that can go wrong....oh man such a nerve wrecking episode!

 

[screwed]

Originally Posted by Clara M .

Hi!
No I haven't had surgery but in just one day I am going to see another surgeon to see what he has to say and maybe start PT with a specialist because in one day it will be 3 months since the accident and I haven't done much PT just some light flexibility exercises I do alone, my doc showed them to me so I am doing just those for 15 min some 3 time a day!
so not much...I think I have a frozen shoulder because it looks pretty weird when I am trying to hold my hand up ...and I mean the shoulder kind of doesn't let go and seems somehow restricted, no range of motion like the healthy one....and I've got some light pain but not in the clavicle area...weirdly enough it is in the shoulder blade....it makes sense actually coz the clavicle connects through the humerus to the blades
I don't know maybe I should have the surgery coz I fear a life of constant pain ....but it's manageable...even though surgery means rrisk of infection and so many other things that can go wrong....oh man such a nerve wrecking episode!

I hope the meeting goes well and you get what you want out of it.
well I think its safe to say that you do have frozen shoulder, and you mentioned your shoulder blade, is it sticking out at all? because mine was, my physio called it "winging" it can sometimes trap a nerve that is used for moving your shoulder around. That might be what the light pain is. Again, with physio, it can be sorted.
Are you worried about the surgery itself, or that something might go wrong? And yes it will be a shock to the system, but that won't last long.
Unfortunately, things do go wrong in all parts of life, risks are everywhere. Things went wrong with me in surgery, I went taci-cardiac, and one end of the cut line tore when they opened me up, and after, we realized there was some nerve damage to my thumb and finger, which is well on the way to being normal again, and when I was in hospital, I met this guy who had broken his wrist, a kitchen fitter of over 20 years, he tripped up on the way to the shops to get some tea bags, even walking is a risk.
By all means look at the pro's and con's, but please try to look on the bright side of things, everyone hear knows that's hard, but the ones who have had the surgery will say it was the right choice. Including me.
In your mind, is manageable acceptable? A life of constant but manageable pain, or surgery and a few weeks of sometimes quite bad and constant pain? and then the recovery will really begin. I my mind, managing is not recovering, and recovering is way more then acceptable.
Again, try to be positive and think of getting back to normal. also, keep smiling /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif
I hope your meeting is what you want, and keep us updated.

 

[Driver72]

Thanks a bunch, *****! Can I pick your brains a bit more? How did your doc know that it was better to postpone the removal? Only after he'd cut you open or by way of some test or scan before the op? That's crucial because several docs, including independent ones (i.e. not from the same clinic) have told me that my bone looked fine on the X-rays and, had it been up to them, they might taken the same wrong decision as my doc... But no-one mentioned a sure method to check whether the union is perfect or not without actually removing the plate.

BSBS, thanks for the comment too. Luckily, I don't smoke either.

Talk to you later,
D72

 

[bsbs1876]

Originally Posted by screwed .

I hope the meeting goes well and you get what you want out of it.
well I think its safe to say that you do have frozen shoulder, and you mentioned your shoulder blade, is it sticking out at all? because mine was, my physio called it "winging" it can sometimes trap a nerve that is used for moving your shoulder around. That might be what the light pain is. Again, with physio, it can be sorted.
Are you worried about the surgery itself, or that something might go wrong? And yes it will be a shock to the system, but that won't last long.
Unfortunately, things do go wrong in all parts of life, risks are everywhere. Things went wrong with me in surgery, I went taci-cardiac, and one end of the cut line tore when they opened me up, and after, we realized there was some nerve damage to my thumb and finger, which is well on the way to being normal again, and when I was in hospital, I met this guy who had broken his wrist, a kitchen fitter of over 20 years, he tripped up on the way to the shops to get some tea bags, even walking is a risk.
By all means look at the pro's and con's, but please try to look on the bright side of things, everyone hear knows that's hard, but the ones who have had the surgery will say it was the right choice. Including me.
In your mind, is manageable acceptable? A life of constant but manageable pain, or surgery and a few weeks of sometimes quite bad and constant pain? and then the recovery will really begin. I my mind, managing is not recovering, and recovering is way more then acceptable.
Again, try to be positive and think of getting back to normal. also, keep smiling /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif
I hope your meeting is what you want, and keep us updated.

These are some good words, screwed! Risks are everywhere in life. The risk of infection is actually less than 1% but the doctors obviously have to mention this to you. As I said earlier in this thread, I can vouch and be an example of how not having surgery can land you with chronic shoulder pain and weakness. I will be going in for the surgery in February and the way I see it I would much rather deal with 3 months of recovery and bad pain than have constant dull pain and weakness forever. Not to mention how weird my shoulder looks without surgery. The bones healed like a tent and it sticks up very prominently. With surgery you have uniform protrusion and it is the proper length for better symmetry in your shoulders. As a female, where your collar bones are on display more often, I would think the surgery would be a great idea for cosmetic reasons as well.

Kind regards and all the best,

Brad

 

[Clara M]

Hi everybody,
just wanted to give a short update
I went to see the 5th surgeon today, I actually went to another country to see him and guess what? he said my collarbone is almost completely healed and that the bone that didn't go back completely can be removed with a small incision and with local anesthetic. It's the 3rd surgeon who says this! so I think that this is the solution! he said that in 6 months the bone will be healed completely and then I can start doing sports again and continue normally. I have to start PT for real coz it's been three months since the accident and I was doing just some light PT.
so I don't now how to feel about it after I have read all your posts and how positive you all are about the surgery option but if the doctors say no...more than one actually...I guess it's a no! I'll see how I feel after I start PT and a little swimming.

regards,

 

[screwed]

Originally Posted by Clara M .

Hi everybody,
just wanted to give a short update
I went to see the 5th surgeon today, I actually went to another country to see him and guess what? he said my collarbone is almost completely healed and that the bone that didn't go back completely can be removed with a small incision and with local anesthetic. It's the 3rd surgeon who says this! so I think that this is the solution! he said that in 6 months the bone will be healed completely and then I can start doing sports again and continue normally. I have to start PT for real coz it's been three months since the accident and I was doing just some light PT.
so I don't now how to feel about it after I have read all your posts and how positive you all are about the surgery option but if the doctors say no...more than one actually...I guess it's a no! I'll see how I feel after I start PT and a little swimming.

regards,

hi clara
It dosn't matter how we feel clara, how do you feel? If 3 docs now say you don't need it, then I'd say that's better then needing it, or having to choose. It's good news, I'm pleased for you /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif Will you have the small piece removed?

 

[screwed]

Originally Posted by bsbs1876 .


These are some good words, screwed! Risks are everywhere in life. The risk of infection is actually less than 1% but the doctors obviously have to mention this to you. As I said earlier in this thread, I can vouch and be an example of how not having surgery can land you with chronic shoulder pain and weakness. I will be going in for the surgery in February and the way I see it I would much rather deal with 3 months of recovery and bad pain than have constant dull pain and weakness forever. Not to mention how weird my shoulder looks without surgery. The bones healed like a tent and it sticks up very prominently. With surgery you have uniform protrusion and it is the proper length for better symmetry in your shoulders. As a female, where your collar bones are on display more often, I would think the surgery would be a great idea for cosmetic reasons as well.

Kind regards and all the best,

Brad

thanks /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif I appreciate that.
So how are you doing at the moment then?

 

[Clara M]

Well I guess I will, depends on how it looks in a year or so....when i asked if it will go through the skin, this surgeon said well it might but in time it will go down and attach itself more and more to the rest of the collarbone, so in other words I guess it won't stick out only if I start playing american football!/img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif which I actually did at some point a few months ago, and it was a lot of fun! now I have to wait lol
I don't know does it sound ok to cut out some bone fragment that isn't attached to the collarbone and the rest has healed normally?
I mean it will look like a V shaped thing there and well it will be seen because girls wear tank tops and stuff like that...lol
and besides does it matter>? the skin isn't irritated (not itchy, red or hurting)