Panniers.

Brian said:

Hoping to do some off road cycle camping once I get my new bike - nothing
too serious, possibly head up Glen Lednock.

Not sure what make of panniers to go for - I had been looking at Ortlieb
Bike Packer but the lack of side pockets are something which I'm not sure
about, although the Ortlieb waterproofness is a plus

Other panniers I've been looking at are Altura Skye 50L - 2003 model from
Wiggle. These look a little tougher (alhough looks can be decieving)

My local bike shop has these: Agu Rear Pannierbags Yamaska 450 Klick
Fix -
not heard of this brand before, and at £79 are these good panniers for
the
money?

Any other suggestions / recommendations?

thanks in advance

Ortleib are generally regarded as the king of pannier bags. For the money
they ought to be, too. You can (I think) buy various pockets and dividers
that fit both in and outside of the bags.
I have a set of smaller Alturas, to be honest they aren't bad but they
aren't great either.
The Brooks panniers I posted about earlier are my favourites, but I'm not
sure they're what you're looking for:

http://www.sjscycles.com/store/vIndex.htm?item10182.htm (still have it in
my paste buffer)

Hope this helps.

Chris

--
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Quoted message said:

Not sure what make of panniers to go for - I had been looking at
Ortlieb Bike Packer but the lack of side pockets are something which
I'm not sure about, although the Ortlieb waterproofness is a plus

I've got some Ortliebs & can vouch for their waterproofness - nothing is
ever going to get in there! It's really nice _know_ you don't have to wrap
everything in carrier bags on the off-chance of heavy rain.

The other thing I /really/ like about the roll top bags is that when you've
over-shopped you can massively increase the capacity by not rolling the top
down. This is normally only a problem for compulsive chocolate/beer buyers
like me.

IMHO lack of sidepockets is not a problem - saddle bags, frame bag things
and handlebar bags give plenty of options for fitting oddments in. I would
like pockets inside tho - saves rummaging around in the haystack a bit.
Ortlieb do a purpose built thingy for them but it's £8-£10 from memory
which seems a bit much for what it is. Then again, £80 for a pair of
panniers is pushing it too :-)

in message <[email hidden]>, Brian

(') said:

Hoping to do some off road cycle camping once I get my new bike -
nothing too serious, possibly head up Glen Lednock.

Not sure what make of panniers to go for - I had been looking at
Ortlieb Bike Packer but the lack of side pockets are something which
I'm not sure about, although the Ortlieb waterproofness is a plus

Other panniers I've been looking at are Altura Skye 50L - 2003 model
from Wiggle. These look a little tougher (alhough looks can be
decieving)

Made in Scotland, so keeps people in jobs if that's worth anything. And
all the Altura kit I've got is good quality.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

'You cannot put "The Internet" into the Recycle Bin.'

in message <[email hidden]>, Chris Davies

(') said:

The Brooks panniers I posted about earlier are my favourites, but I'm
not sure they're what you're looking for:

http://www.sjscycles.com/store/vIndex.htm?item10182.htm (still have it
in my paste buffer)

Still wrong, too, unless your Brooks panniers look weirdly like a blue
bike frame.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; killing [afghan|iraqi] civilians is not 'justice'

On Sun, 08 Aug 2004 21:05:05 GMT, Simon Brooke <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Chris Davies

(') said:

The Brooks panniers I posted about earlier are my favourites, but I'm
not sure they're what you're looking for:

http://www.sjscycles.com/store/vIndex.htm?item10182.htm (still have it
in my paste buffer)

Still wrong, too, unless your Brooks panniers look weirdly like a blue
bike frame.

How embarassing! (:

http://www.sjscycles.com/store/item8617.htm

BTW, I know I've asked before, but has anyone tried this frame? It looks
quite interesting for the money.

--
|C|H|R|I|S|@|T|R|I|N|I|T|Y|W|I|L|L|S|.|C|O|M|
Remove the bars to contact me

On 8 Aug 2004 19:38:48 GMT, in
<[email hidden]>, Brian

Quoted message said:

Hoping to do some off road cycle camping once I get my new bike - nothing
too serious, possibly head up Glen Lednock.

Not sure what make of panniers to go for - I had been looking at Ortlieb
Bike Packer but the lack of side pockets are something which I'm not sure
about, although the Ortlieb waterproofness is a plus

Other panniers I've been looking at are Altura Skye 50L - 2003 model from
Wiggle. These look a little tougher (alhough looks can be decieving)

My local bike shop has these: Agu Rear Pannierbags Yamaska 450 Klick Fix -
not heard of this brand before, and at £79 are these good panniers for the
money?

Any other suggestions / recommendations?

thanks in advance

In my opinion Vaude Worldtramp Plus, with an additional Ortlieb pocket
bolted on are the absolute bikes nipples of panniers. Totally
waterproof and total solid on a decent luggage rack. Mine came from
www.gearshift.com/co.uk

--
Boredband: High speed internet access with uninteresting content.

Chris Davies [email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

BTW, I know I've asked before, but has anyone tried this frame? It looks
quite interesting for the money.

It does look quite nice, but in addition to the 130mm OLN (which you
mentioned) it's worth noting that it has an integral derailleur mount.
This does make it harder to fix if you ever prang it. Other than that...
no ideas. I believe that Tange tubing is well-respected but obviously
not as well known as Reynolds / Columbus.

Jon

Brian said:

Hoping to do some off road cycle camping once I get my new bike - nothing
too serious, possibly head up Glen Lednock.

Not sure what make of panniers to go for - I had been looking at Ortlieb
Bike Packer but the lack of side pockets are something which I'm not sure
about, although the Ortlieb waterproofness is a plus

The Bike Packer Plus has a mesh pocket on it and you can get stick-on
side pockets too. Having looked at these they'd be awkward compared to
the built-ins on Altura or Carradice panniers, but I also don't think
it's /that/ much of a problem.

I have a pair of the Ortlieb roll-top Plus as my main battle panniers,
and they are very, very good. Superbly made and the fixing system is
easily the best I've seen. Putting them on locks them onto the rack,
and picking them up by the grab handle unlocks them.

Quoted message said:

Other panniers I've been looking at are Altura Skye 50L - 2003 model from
Wiggle. These look a little tougher (alhough looks can be decieving)

I also have a pair of Altura Orkney lowriders (though at 17l each
they're big for lowriders). This is the model up from the Skye, though
looking at a friend's Skyes the quality is comparable, and very good.
If you want pockets, these are well done and have a good selection. The
Orks come with raincovers though I've never bothered with them: the
basic fabric is waterproof, but they'll leak a bit through seams and
zips, but only a bit. If you use raincovers then all the easy access
you got the pockets /for/ goes out the window.
The mountings on the Orkneys are secure but are more awkward to use than
the Ortliebs.

If you want something with good waterproofing and pockets then maybe
Carradice Super C. Build is bombproof and the cotton duck fabric is
near enough waterproof as makes no odds and very, very tough. Good
secure locking mount too, which you want on a rough track.

From personal experience I'd be very happy with anything from Ortlieb,
Altura and Carradice. Karrimor and Vau De look good too, though I've
not owned any.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

JohnB said:

Ortlieb's fixing is easily the best, but I have been concerned at the
ease with which panniers could be removed by the opportunist thief.

This strikes me a bit like the ease of unparking a Brompton and making=20
off with it. It's very easy /if you realise how it's done/, but not=20
that many people do and those that do probably know through ownership=20
anyway and I'd think a very small subset of those are the sort who'd=20
"borrow" the ones on my bike.
Also the case, or at least such is my guess, that bike panniers aren't=20
obvious fence items and very few opportunist thieves would have a clue=20
you could spend the best part of =A3100 on a pair of good ones.

Not to say there's no risk, but I don't think we're in car with key left =

in the door levels of temptation here.

Pete.
--=20
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch said:

Brian wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Not sure what make of panniers to go for - I had been looking at Ortlieb
Bike Packer but the lack of side pockets are something which I'm not sure
about, although the Ortlieb waterproofness is a plus

The Bike Packer Plus has a mesh pocket on it and you can get stick-on
side pockets too. Having looked at these they'd be awkward compared to
the built-ins on Altura or Carradice panniers, but I also don't think
it's /that/ much of a problem.

I have the Bike Packer Plus and find one pair more than ample for cycle
camping although I actually prefer my Sport Packer Plus set which are
the same but smaller.
The small mesh pocket has a zip and is fine for keeping things like a
lock or small tool kit handy but it is not waterproof.
You can also put things behind the pocket like a rolled newspaper or cagoule.

I would highly recommend these panniers above others I've owned from
Karrimor and Agu Sport - the latter which i would avoid again.

.....fixing system is

Quoted message said:

easily the best I've seen. Putting them on locks them onto the rack,
and picking them up by the grab handle unlocks them.

Ortlieb's fixing is easily the best, but I have been concerned at the
ease with which panniers could be removed by the opportunist thief.

John B

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Made in Scotland, so keeps people in jobs if that's worth anything. And
all the Altura kit I've got is good quality.

Carradice is an English firm (Nelson, not very far from where I am), so
keeps English people in jobs :-)

(I like our carradice super C panniers).

cheers,
clive

Peter Clinch said:

JohnB said:

Ortlieb's fixing is easily the best, but I have been concerned at the
ease with which panniers could be removed by the opportunist thief.

This strikes me a bit like the ease of unparking a Brompton and making
off with it. It's very easy /if you realise how it's done/, but not
that many people do and those that do probably know through ownership
anyway and I'd think a very small subset of those are the sort who'd
"borrow" the ones on my bike.
Also the case, or at least such is my guess, that bike panniers aren't
obvious fence items and very few opportunist thieves would have a clue
you could spend the best part of £100 on a pair of good ones.

Not to say there's no risk, but I don't think we're in car with key left
in the door levels of temptation here.

Of course its not, but last Wednesday a scumbag (aged about 10) tried to
get his hand into my rack pack while I wasn't looking.
Yobs will have a go at _anything_ whether there is a value or not :-(

If I've a camera or laptop in them I'd prefer to know my panniers
couldn't be picked up in less than half a sec (and yes I know I could
always take them with me).

Call it peace of mind, rather than anything else.

John B

"Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

JohnB said:

Ortlieb's fixing is easily the best, but I have been concerned at the
ease with which panniers could be removed by the opportunist thief.

I lock mine to the rack with a short length of chain fastened to a pannier
mount screw (head filled with alraldite) at one end and looped round a rack
leg and fastened with a small combination lock, mainly due to my paranoia.

KC

On 8 Aug 2004 20:30:46 GMT, Mark Thompson
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

IMHO lack of sidepockets is not a problem - saddle bags, frame bag things
and handlebar bags give plenty of options for fitting oddments in. I would
like pockets inside tho - saves rummaging around in the haystack a bit.
Ortlieb do a purpose built thingy for them but it's £8-£10 from memory
which seems a bit much for what it is. Then again, £80 for a pair of
panniers is pushing it too :-)

You can get pockets which clip on, I have a pair which I might be
selling because I am going to buy proper recumbent panniers. And for
storing stuff inside the Vaude barracuda bags are very handy, they
have tapes with clips on them.

Of course, Vaude and Ortlieb are probably equally good, but both much
better than the competition. On the other hand, a set of Altura
panniers and some poly bags does the job :-)

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

You can get pockets which clip on, I have a pair which I might be
selling because I am going to buy proper recumbent panniers. And for
storing stuff inside the Vaude barracuda bags are very handy, they
have tapes with clips on them.

Of course, Vaude and Ortlieb are probably equally good, but both much
better than the competition. On the other hand, a set of Altura
panniers and some poly bags does the job :-)

Guy

Thats very true - I do hill walking, and my rucksack isn't 100% waterproof
- so is a 100% waterproof pair of panniers really necessary?

I was going to order a set of Ortlieb Bike Packers - not so sure now. A set
of Altura panniers + a small rucksack liner may be the best solution?

hmmm...

--
Brian

Quoted message said:

Thats very true - I do hill walking, and my rucksack isn't 100%
waterproof - so is a 100% waterproof pair of panniers really
necessary?

I was going to order a set of Ortlieb Bike Packers - not so sure now.
A set of Altura panniers + a small rucksack liner may be the best
solution?

My thinking was that I wasn't going to spend £60+ on a set of panniers only
to faff about with plastic bags all the time! Raincovers are a good option
but fail the acid test - I'm not going to spend that kind of money and
_still_ have to faff about :-)

Brian of Your Company said:

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

You can get pockets which clip on, I have a pair which I might be
selling because I am going to buy proper recumbent panniers. And for
storing stuff inside the Vaude barracuda bags are very handy, they
have tapes with clips on them.

Of course, Vaude and Ortlieb are probably equally good, but both much
better than the competition. On the other hand, a set of Altura
panniers and some poly bags does the job :-)

Guy

Thats very true - I do hill walking, and my rucksack isn't 100% waterproof
- so is a 100% waterproof pair of panniers really necessary?

Depends what you are doing. All day tropical storms in Malaysia made me
very glad I'd bought the Ortliebs.
--
Error in REALITY.SYS. Run BIGBANG.EXE (Y/N)
Steph Peters delete invalid from [email hidden]
Tatting, lace & stitching page <http://www.sandbenders.demon.co.uk/index.htm>

Brian said:

Thats very true - I do hill walking, and my rucksack isn't 100% waterproof
- so is a 100% waterproof pair of panniers really necessary?

Of course not, but "not necessary" is not the same as "not worth it".
But even with Ortliebs, bear in mind the packing. Mine are 100%
waterproof from external ingress, but when I put a wet tent inside then
water gets inside on the tent, and you have to remember this sort of thing.
I like that my Orts are waterproof, but what I /love/ about them is they
are better made and easier to use than any other panniers I've seen.

Quoted message said:

I was going to order a set of Ortlieb Bike Packers - not so sure now. A set
of Altura panniers + a small rucksack liner may be the best solution?

Alturas are different, rather than better or worse. The multiplicity of
pockets can be convenient, or it can make packing more awkward by
forcing dividers on you. Quality of construction is good, as are the
fittings, but Ortliebs fittings are easily the best there are AFAICT.

For day tours I use the Alturas more, as the pockets are handy for
snacks etc. and being on a 'bent I can't use back pockets of the jersey.
I also use the pannier back pocket for a water bottle holder rather
than a normal cage (wouldn't work on an upright). But if I had just one
pair for general use on an upright I'd get Ortliebs for ease of use.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Just zis Guy said:

You can get pockets which clip on, I have a pair which I might be
selling because I am going to buy proper recumbent panniers.

Worth keeping anyway for use on the uprights IMHO, and when the 'bent
panniers are a bit OTT.

Which 'bent bags are you planning on, Carradice, Radical or something
else? The Radicals Roos got for the Fiero (the 55l/pair model) worked
very well on tour but one thing about them was they don't really let you
mount and dismount them easily, which can be a nuisance, and they don't
really work any other way except as a pair. This is no problem on a
tour, of course, but she's more likely to use one of the Orkneys for a
day tour. A definite plus point of the Rads is the bike looks even
cooler with the luggage on! ;-)

For more gory details, probably easier to quiz her direct.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/