vampires strike

Dans le message de news:[email hidden],
Dan Gregory <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis
a déclaré :

Quoted message said:

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/hayles_fails_prerace_blood_at_track_worlds_article_200213.html?aff=rss

If only the UCI weren't saying it tongue in cheek, that the hematocrit test
is to safeguard the rider's health, and then leave the matter alone, I could
live with this. Of course, if there were an actual health threat.

Sandy said:

If only the UCI weren't saying it tongue in cheek, that the hematocrit test
is to safeguard the rider's health, and then leave the matter alone, I could
live with this. Of course, if there were an actual health threat.

dumbass,

too high a hematocrit is a health threat. ask johannes draaijer's
widow.

Amit Ghosh said:

Sandy said:

If only the UCI weren't saying it tongue in cheek, that the hematocrit test
is to safeguard the rider's health, and then leave the matter alone, I could
live with this.  Of course, if there were an actual health threat.

dumbass,

too high a hematocrit is a health threat. ask johannes draaijer's
widow.

Yeah, there's something about trying to pump sludge that the heart
just doesn't seem to like much. Call it a "health check" or whatever
it just makes a lot of sense. Protecting the athlete's from themselves
is something I'm undecided on, but trying to avoid a Tom Simpson
moment is just good policy, and we know the athletes, if left on their
own, wouldn't all be safe and sensible.
IOW Good point Amit.
Bill C

Bill C said:

Amit Ghosh said:

Sandy said:

If only the UCI weren't saying it tongue in cheek, that the hematocrit test
is to safeguard the rider's health, and then leave the matter alone, I could
live with this. Of course, if there were an actual health threat.

dumbass,

too high a hematocrit is a health threat. ask johannes draaijer's
widow.

Yeah, there's something about trying to pump sludge that the heart
just doesn't seem to like much. Call it a "health check" or whatever
it just makes a lot of sense. Protecting the athlete's from themselves
is something I'm undecided on, but trying to avoid a Tom Simpson
moment is just good policy, and we know the athletes, if left on their
own, wouldn't all be safe and sensible.
IOW Good point Amit.
Bill C

If your blood is too thick, resting is the worse thing for your health,
not exercise. All the cyclists who have died as a result of EPO-induced
'thick blood' have all died in their sleep.

Can you name a single pro who keeled over and died while racing because
of blood that was too thick? If the answer is no then why does the UCI
claim that resting is for their health?

Magilla

MagillaGorilla said:

Can you name a single pro who keeled over and died while racing because
of blood that was too thick? If the answer is no then why does the UCI
claim that resting is for their health?

the 50% scheme is a vestige from when there was an EPO test. it should
be scrapped when there is an EPO test.

Amit Ghosh said:

MagillaGorilla said:

Can you name a single pro who keeled over and died while racing because
of blood that was too thick? If the answer is no then why does the UCI
claim that resting is for their health?

the 50% scheme is a vestige from when there was an EPO test. it should
be scrapped when there is an EPO test.

I know. I was just being facetious. Exceeding the 50% limit basically
means you were caught, but they just can't prove you were transfusing
blood or using EPO, so they have to call it a "safety" suspension.

Magilla

"MagillaGorilla" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Amit Ghosh said:

MagillaGorilla said:

Can you name a single pro who keeled over and died while racing
because
of blood that was too thick? If the answer is no then why does the
UCI
claim that resting is for their health?

the 50% scheme is a vestige from when there was an EPO test. it
should
be scrapped when there is an EPO test.

I know. I was just being facetious. Exceeding the 50% limit
basically means you were caught, but they just can't prove you were
transfusing blood or using EPO, so they have to call it a "safety"
suspension.

Resting roughly translates to ..... stop doing whatever it was you were
doing to raise your hemacrit to > 50%, including legal manipulations.

Phil H

Phil Holman said:

"MagillaGorilla" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Amit Ghosh said:

On Mar 26, 7:23 pm, MagillaGorilla <[email hidden]> wrote:

>Can you name a single pro who keeled over and died while racing
>because
>of blood that was too thick? If the answer is no then why does the
>UCI
>claim that resting is for their health?
>

the 50% scheme is a vestige from when there was an EPO test. it
should
be scrapped when there is an EPO test.

I know. I was just being facetious. Exceeding the 50% limit
basically means you were caught, but they just can't prove you were
transfusing blood or using EPO, so they have to call it a "safety"
suspension.

Resting roughly translates to ..... stop doing whatever it was you were
doing to raise your hemacrit to > 50%, including legal manipulations.

Phil H

There are no "legal" ways to raise your hematocrit.

Magilla

MagillaGorilla said:

Phil Holman said:

"MagillaGorilla" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Amit Ghosh wrote:

> On Mar 26, 7:23 pm, MagillaGorilla <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
>
>
>> Can you name a single pro who keeled over and died while racing
>> because
>> of blood that was too thick? If the answer is no then why does the
>> UCI
>> claim that resting is for their health?
>>
>
>
> the 50% scheme is a vestige from when there was an EPO test. it should
> be scrapped when there is an EPO test.

I know. I was just being facetious. Exceeding the 50% limit
basically means you were caught, but they just can't prove you were
transfusing blood or using EPO, so they have to call it a "safety"
suspension.

Resting roughly translates to ..... stop doing whatever it was you
were doing to raise your hemacrit to > 50%, including legal
manipulations.

Phil H

There are no "legal" ways to raise your hematocrit.

Magilla

Geez, tell that to the Red Cross nurse won't let you donate blood due to
low hematocrit. Eat foods high in iron. For the athletes, do some
altitude training, hypoxia tents (regardless of [censored] Pound or whoever
that was), etc.

Mark J.

Mark said:

MagillaGorilla said:

Phil Holman said:

"MagillaGorilla" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

> Amit Ghosh wrote:
>
>> On Mar 26, 7:23 pm, MagillaGorilla <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Can you name a single pro who keeled over and died while racing
>>> because
>>> of blood that was too thick? If the answer is no then why does
>>> the UCI
>>> claim that resting is for their health?
>>>
>>
>>
>> the 50% scheme is a vestige from when there was an EPO test. it should
>> be scrapped when there is an EPO test.
>
>
>
> I know. I was just being facetious. Exceeding the 50% limit
> basically means you were caught, but they just can't prove you were
> transfusing blood or using EPO, so they have to call it a "safety"
> suspension.
>

Resting roughly translates to ..... stop doing whatever it was you
were doing to raise your hemacrit to > 50%, including legal
manipulations.

Phil H

There are no "legal" ways to raise your hematocrit.

Magilla

Geez, tell that to the Red Cross nurse won't let you donate blood due to
low hematocrit. Eat foods high in iron. For the athletes, do some
altitude training, hypoxia tents (regardless of [censored] Pound or whoever
that was), etc.

Mark J.

Training at altitude and hypoxic tents rely on two totally different
physiological mechanisms.

When you train at altitude, the partial pressure of oxygen at the
pulmonary capillary level is less than at sea level. However, the
concentration of oxygen in the air stays the same.

Hypoxic tents do not change the partial pressure of oxygen in air.
Rather they de-saturate the air of oxygen molecules.

When you train at altitude, you are really training in a "hypobaric
tent" (not a hypoxic tent).

That's something hypoxic tent manufacturers don't want to tell you.

Magilla

Magilla expounded

Quoted message said:

Hypoxic tents do not change the partial pressure of oxygen in air.
Rather they de-saturate the air of oxygen molecules.

Try again.

Phil H

MagillaGorilla said:

Phil Holman said:

"MagillaGorilla" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Amit Ghosh wrote:

>On Mar 26, 7:23 pm, MagillaGorilla <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
>>Can you name a single pro who keeled over and died while racing
>>because
>>of blood that was too thick? If the answer is no then why does the
>>UCI
>>claim that resting is for their health?
>
>the 50% scheme is a vestige from when there was an EPO test. it
>should
>be scrapped when there is an EPO test.

I know. I was just being facetious. Exceeding the 50% limit
basically means you were caught, but they just can't prove you were
transfusing blood or using EPO, so they have to call it a "safety"
suspension.

Resting roughly translates to ..... stop doing whatever it was you were
doing to raise your hemacrit to > 50%, including legal manipulations.

There are no "legal" ways to raise your hematocrit.

Errhem. Altitude tents. As recommended by Lance Armstrong:
http://www.hypoxico.com/media.htm

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
Ye hypocrites! are these your pranks? To murder men and give God thanks?
Desist, for shame! Proceed no further: God won't accept your thanks for
murther
-- Robert Burns, 'Thanksgiving For a National Victory'

Phil Holman said:

Magilla expounded

Quoted message said:

Hypoxic tents do not change the partial pressure of oxygen in air.
Rather they de-saturate the air of oxygen molecules.

Try again.

Phil H

I hate to use Wikipedia because it's gay, but this is the same thing I
said. Why do I need to try again?

Magilla

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altitude_tent

Rather than simulate altitude with low air pressure, the altitude tent
remains at normal air pressure, substituting low concentration of oxygen
for low pressure. While normal air contains 20.9% oxygen independent of
altitude, the air in an altitude tent contains as little as 12% oxygen
(the remainder being the inert gas, nitrogen). The partial pressure of
oxygen inside the tent is the same as it is at the natural elevation
that the tent is simulating.

Simon Brooke said:

MagillaGorilla said:

Phil Holman said:

"MagillaGorilla" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

>Amit Ghosh wrote:
>
>
>>On Mar 26, 7:23 pm, MagillaGorilla <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Can you name a single pro who keeled over and died while racing
>>>because
>>>of blood that was too thick? If the answer is no then why does the
>>>UCI
>>>claim that resting is for their health?
>>
>>the 50% scheme is a vestige from when there was an EPO test. it
>>should
>>be scrapped when there is an EPO test.
>
>I know. I was just being facetious. Exceeding the 50% limit
>basically means you were caught, but they just can't prove you were
>transfusing blood or using EPO, so they have to call it a "safety"
>suspension.

Resting roughly translates to ..... stop doing whatever it was you were
doing to raise your hemacrit to > 50%, including legal manipulations.

There are no "legal" ways to raise your hematocrit.

Errhem. Altitude tents. As recommended by Lance Armstrong:
http://www.hypoxico.com/media.htm

Thanks for the commercial. Now read this, smart mouth.

Magilla

http://www.hypoxico.com/faq.htm

7Q. Will my Hematocrit level rise?

A: This was confirmed in a recent independent HYPOXIC ALTITUDE TENT
study where, although the "tent group" showed significant gains, there
was no change in hematocrit.

MagillaGorilla said:

Mark said:

MagillaGorilla said:

Phil Holman wrote:

> "MagillaGorilla" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> news:[email hidden]...
>
>> Amit Ghosh wrote:
>>
>>> On Mar 26, 7:23 pm, MagillaGorilla <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Can you name a single pro who keeled over and died while racing
>>>> because
>>>> of blood that was too thick? If the answer is no then why does
>>>> the UCI
>>>> claim that resting is for their health?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> the 50% scheme is a vestige from when there was an EPO test. it
>>> should
>>> be scrapped when there is an EPO test.
>>
>>
>>
>> I know. I was just being facetious. Exceeding the 50% limit
>> basically means you were caught, but they just can't prove you were
>> transfusing blood or using EPO, so they have to call it a "safety"
>> suspension.
>>
>
> Resting roughly translates to ..... stop doing whatever it was you
> were doing to raise your hemacrit to > 50%, including legal
> manipulations.
>
> Phil H

There are no "legal" ways to raise your hematocrit.

Magilla

Geez, tell that to the Red Cross nurse won't let you donate blood due
to low hematocrit. Eat foods high in iron. For the athletes, do some
altitude training, hypoxia tents (regardless of [censored] Pound or whoever
that was), etc.

Mark J.

Training at altitude and hypoxic tents rely on two totally different
physiological mechanisms.

When you train at altitude, the partial pressure of oxygen at the
pulmonary capillary level is less than at sea level. However, the
concentration of oxygen in the air stays the same.

Hypoxic tents do not change the partial pressure of oxygen in air.
Rather they de-saturate the air of oxygen molecules.

When you train at altitude, you are really training in a "hypobaric
tent" (not a hypoxic tent).

That's something hypoxic tent manufacturers don't want to tell you.

None of that matters. What matters is that they are legal ways to raise
hematocrit.

Kyle Legate said:

MagillaGorilla said:

Mark said:

MagillaGorilla wrote:

> Phil Holman wrote:
>
>> "MagillaGorilla" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
>> news:[email hidden]...
>>
>>> Amit Ghosh wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mar 26, 7:23 pm, MagillaGorilla <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Can you name a single pro who keeled over and died while racing
>>>>> because
>>>>> of blood that was too thick? If the answer is no then why does
>>>>> the UCI
>>>>> claim that resting is for their health?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> the 50% scheme is a vestige from when there was an EPO test. it
>>>> should
>>>> be scrapped when there is an EPO test.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I know. I was just being facetious. Exceeding the 50% limit
>>> basically means you were caught, but they just can't prove you
>>> were transfusing blood or using EPO, so they have to call it a
>>> "safety" suspension.
>>>
>>
>> Resting roughly translates to ..... stop doing whatever it was you
>> were doing to raise your hemacrit to > 50%, including legal
>> manipulations.
>>
>> Phil H
>
>
>
>
> There are no "legal" ways to raise your hematocrit.
>
> Magilla

Geez, tell that to the Red Cross nurse won't let you donate blood due
to low hematocrit. Eat foods high in iron. For the athletes, do
some altitude training, hypoxia tents (regardless of [censored] Pound or
whoever that was), etc.

Mark J.

Training at altitude and hypoxic tents rely on two totally different
physiological mechanisms.

When you train at altitude, the partial pressure of oxygen at the
pulmonary capillary level is less than at sea level. However, the
concentration of oxygen in the air stays the same.

Hypoxic tents do not change the partial pressure of oxygen in air.
Rather they de-saturate the air of oxygen molecules.

When you train at altitude, you are really training in a "hypobaric
tent" (not a hypoxic tent).

That's something hypoxic tent manufacturers don't want to tell you.

None of that matters. What matters is that they are legal ways to raise
hematocrit.

Thanks. Now read this, smart mouth.

Magilla

http://www.hypoxico.com/faq.htm

7Q. Will my Hematocrit level rise?

A: This was confirmed in a recent independent HYPOXIC ALTITUDE TENT
study where, although the "tent group" showed significant gains, there
was no change in hematocrit.

"MagillaGorilla" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Phil Holman said:

Magilla expounded

Quoted message said:

Hypoxic tents do not change the partial pressure of oxygen in air.
Rather they de-saturate the air of oxygen molecules.

Try again.

Phil H

I hate to use Wikipedia because it's gay, but this is the same thing I
said. Why do I need to try again?

Magilla

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altitude_tent

Rather than simulate altitude with low air pressure, the altitude tent
remains at normal air pressure, substituting low concentration of
oxygen for low pressure. While normal air contains 20.9% oxygen
independent of altitude, the air in an altitude tent contains as
little as 12% oxygen (the remainder being the inert gas, nitrogen).
The partial pressure of oxygen inside the tent is the same as it is at
the natural elevation that the tent is simulating.

Now look up partial pressure in a more reliable source and identify the
inconsistency.

Phil H

Phil Holman said:

"MagillaGorilla" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Phil Holman said:

Magilla expounded

>Hypoxic tents do not change the partial pressure of oxygen in air.
>Rather they de-saturate the air of oxygen molecules.

Try again.

Phil H

I hate to use Wikipedia because it's gay, but this is the same thing I
said. Why do I need to try again?

Magilla

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altitude_tent

Rather than simulate altitude with low air pressure, the altitude tent
remains at normal air pressure, substituting low concentration of
oxygen for low pressure. While normal air contains 20.9% oxygen
independent of altitude, the air in an altitude tent contains as
little as 12% oxygen (the remainder being the inert gas, nitrogen).
The partial pressure of oxygen inside the tent is the same as it is at
the natural elevation that the tent is simulating.

Now look up partial pressure in a more reliable source and identify the
inconsistency.

Phil H

No.

Magilla

MagillaGorilla said:

Kyle Legate said:

MagillaGorilla said:

Mark wrote:

> MagillaGorilla wrote:
>
>> Phil Holman wrote:
>>
>>> "MagillaGorilla" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email hidden]...
>>>
>>>> Amit Ghosh wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 26, 7:23 pm, MagillaGorilla <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Can you name a single pro who keeled over and died while racing
>>>>>> because
>>>>>> of blood that was too thick? If the answer is no then why does
>>>>>> the UCI
>>>>>> claim that resting is for their health?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> the 50% scheme is a vestige from when there was an EPO test. it
>>>>> should
>>>>> be scrapped when there is an EPO test.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I know. I was just being facetious. Exceeding the 50% limit
>>>> basically means you were caught, but they just can't prove you
>>>> were transfusing blood or using EPO, so they have to call it a
>>>> "safety" suspension.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Resting roughly translates to ..... stop doing whatever it was
>>> you were doing to raise your hemacrit to > 50%, including legal
>>> manipulations.
>>>
>>> Phil H
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> There are no "legal" ways to raise your hematocrit.
>>
>> Magilla
>
>
>
> Geez, tell that to the Red Cross nurse won't let you donate blood
> due to low hematocrit. Eat foods high in iron. For the athletes,
> do some altitude training, hypoxia tents (regardless of [censored] Pound
> or whoever that was), etc.
>
> Mark J.

Training at altitude and hypoxic tents rely on two totally different
physiological mechanisms.

When you train at altitude, the partial pressure of oxygen at the
pulmonary capillary level is less than at sea level. However, the
concentration of oxygen in the air stays the same.

Hypoxic tents do not change the partial pressure of oxygen in air.
Rather they de-saturate the air of oxygen molecules.

When you train at altitude, you are really training in a "hypobaric
tent" (not a hypoxic tent).

That's something hypoxic tent manufacturers don't want to tell you.

None of that matters. What matters is that they are legal ways to
raise hematocrit.

Thanks. Now read this, smart mouth.

Magilla

http://www.hypoxico.com/faq.htm

7Q. Will my Hematocrit level rise?

A: This was confirmed in a recent independent HYPOXIC ALTITUDE TENT
study where, although the "tent group" showed significant gains, there
was no change in hematocrit.

I imagine they are referring to this study:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16416150?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

Nobody but you is arguing the effectiveness of the method; that's your
strawman. The discussion centered around the legality of these methods,
in which you said "There are no "legal" ways to raise your hematocrit."
You desperately attacked the tent method based on a study with shady
interpretation of the results ("biological variation over time" in the
hypoxic group but not in the control group? Please.), now let's see you
attack the living at altitude method.