Ethical Query

"Terry Pulliam Burd" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

While he perused the wine list, he found what he was certain was a
typo. Wine X, which is a favorite of his, was priced at $X7 and he was
sure it should have been priced $200 more than that (I checked - he
was right).

How did you check? Could be a slight difference from what you think it is
or the restaurant got a good eal when they bought the wine a few years ago.
Did you check witht he restaurant?

Quoted message said:

My first reaction when my boss told me this story was that when we
finish the current lawsuit, we not take on any more work for him. If
he's willing to cheat a restaurant, he won't hesitate to cheat anyone
else. And a client like that we do not need or want.

Cheated? He bought what was offeed for sale at the price asked. If the
bottle had a price tag of $200 and he slipped it by the staff for $20, that
is cheating, if not downright theft. He did nothing illeagal, possibly
immoral, but we don't know that for sure. If it was a similar typo (if it
was indeed a typo) in the Wal Mart sales flyer, everyone would be jumping at
them for not selling the item at that price, shouting corporate greed!

I bought some wine that sells for $45 a bottle for $10. I just bought it at
the right time and let it age for five years while the price of the
remaining stock went up. How do you know the restaurant did not do the same
thing.

Not knowing how you checked the situation, you may or may not be jumping to
conclusions.

Quoted message said:

My boss
acknowledges my concerns, and says that he is more valuable to the
client than the client is to us, so if I want to cross him off our
client list, it's okay with him.

He may or may not be scum. Same for the lawyer. I don't know either so I'm
not in a position to draw any conclusions, but the fact is, some clients are
scum, so are some lawyers.

Quoted message said:

Am I overreacting?

Can't say from what I know.

Terry Pulliam Burd said:

Am I overreacting?

I think so. An offer was made and he accepted it. 4 times,
even. Maybe that was slightly excessive, but I don't really
consider it underhanded.

I buy things that I think or know are mis-marked all the time
(sometimes even if I don't want or need it!) And sometimes I'll
buy multiples or all they have of that item. I don't feel
guilty.

-sw

Terry Pulliam Burd said:

While he perused the wine list, he found what he was certain was a
typo. Wine X, which is a favorite of his, was priced at $X7 and he was
sure it should have been priced $200 more than that (I checked - he
was right). He promptly ordered 4 bottles, 2 to take home. First of
all, I wasn't aware that you could order wine in a restaurant as if it
was a liquor store (this is southern California, so who knows). More
importantly, I can sort of see ordering 1 bottle while pointing out to
the staff that you think the price is a typo and you should at least
get the one bottle at that price, but I was offended that he ordered
several bottles and rather gleefully left thinking he had really put
one over on the restaurant.

Quoted message said:

My first reaction when my boss told me this story was that when we
finish the current lawsuit, we not take on any more work for him. If
he's willing to cheat a restaurant, he won't hesitate to cheat anyone
else. And a client like that we do not need or want. My boss
acknowledges my concerns, and says that he is more valuable to the
client than the client is to us, so if I want to cross him off our
client list, it's okay with him.

Quoted message said:

Am I overreacting?

Some fraction of the wealthy got there by cheating, scrimping,
and pinching people. Not all, but a noticeable number. I would be
surprised if he is unique among your wealthier clients.

Regarding the wine list, sometimes a wine stays at a low price
on a winelist even as its market price has gone up with time.
They could have bought it pre-arrival at a bargain, and never
marked it up to market. Probably they are not losing any money.
And probably they would not have sold him four bottles if they
were close to running out.

And it's possible in California for a restaurant to have an offsale
license.

Steve

Terry Pulliam Burd <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

While he perused the wine list, he found what he was certain was a
typo. Wine X, which is a favorite of his, was priced at $X7 and he was
sure it should have been priced $200 more than that (I checked - he
was right). He promptly ordered 4 bottles, 2 to take home.

Quoted message said:

My first reaction when my boss told me this story was that when we
finish the current lawsuit, we not take on any more work for him. If
he's willing to cheat a restaurant, he won't hesitate to cheat anyone
else. And a client like that we do not need or want. My boss
acknowledges my concerns, and says that he is more valuable to the
client than the client is to us, so if I want to cross him off our
client list, it's okay with him.

Am I overreacting?

The prices on a menu are a contract. If you are the restaurant and
publish a contract then you are obligated to honor the contract. I worked
at a restaurant where we showed a piece of pie in the menu, the one
delivered was not anything like the picture. Manager told me it took
three pieces of pie to make it look as big as the strawberry pie in the
picture.

--

Charles
The significant problems we face cannot be solved
at the same level of thinking we were at when we
created them. Albert Einstein

On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 06:44:35 +0000 (UTC), [email hidden]

(Steve Pope) said:

Terry Pulliam Burd said:

While he perused the wine list, he found what he was certain was a
typo. Wine X, which is a favorite of his, was priced at $X7 and he was
sure it should have been priced $200 more than that (I checked - he
was right). He promptly ordered 4 bottles, 2 to take home. First of
all, I wasn't aware that you could order wine in a restaurant as if it
was a liquor store (this is southern California, so who knows). More
importantly, I can sort of see ordering 1 bottle while pointing out to
the staff that you think the price is a typo and you should at least
get the one bottle at that price, but I was offended that he ordered
several bottles and rather gleefully left thinking he had really put
one over on the restaurant.

Quoted message said:

My first reaction when my boss told me this story was that when we
finish the current lawsuit, we not take on any more work for him. If
he's willing to cheat a restaurant, he won't hesitate to cheat anyone
else. And a client like that we do not need or want. My boss
acknowledges my concerns, and says that he is more valuable to the
client than the client is to us, so if I want to cross him off our
client list, it's okay with him.

Quoted message said:

Am I overreacting?

Yes, you're over reacting - for the wrong reason. If the restaurant
was willing to part with those bottles of wine for his off-site,
private, consumption - you know they made a profit and he's the one
who lost money.

Quoted message said:

Some fraction of the wealthy got there by cheating, scrimping,
and pinching people. Not all, but a noticeable number. I would be
surprised if he is unique among your wealthier clients.

Regarding the wine list, sometimes a wine stays at a low price
on a winelist even as its market price has gone up with time.
They could have bought it pre-arrival at a bargain, and never
marked it up to market. Probably they are not losing any money.
And probably they would not have sold him four bottles if they
were close to running out.

And it's possible in California for a restaurant to have an offsale
license.

In California, some restaurants only charge modestly over retail (not
even double). So until I hear what wine it was (type,
vineyard/year)and the price, this is just another fish story for me.

--

Ham and eggs.
A day's work for the chicken, a lifetime commitment for the pig.

On Aug 25, 7:56?pm, Terry Pulliam Burd <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

As many of you know, I'm a paralegal in a law firm, which has little
to do with the following, but just setting the scene. My boss was
taken by a client to dinner the other night in LA after the execution
of a successful contract. Mind you, the client has a 7 figure plus
bank account, but tends to be a bit slow in paying his bills and a bit
over interested in the cost of things or what he has paid for things.
He also considers himself quite an oenophile.

While he perused the wine list, he found what he was certain was a
typo. Wine X, which is a favorite of his, was priced at $X7 and he was
sure it should have been priced $200 more than that (I checked - he
was right). He promptly ordered 4 bottles, 2 to take home. First of
all, I wasn't aware that you could order wine in a restaurant as if it
was a liquor store (this is southern California, so who knows). More
importantly, I can sort of see ordering 1 bottle while pointing out to
the staff that you think the price is a typo and you should at least
get the one bottle at that price, but I was offended that he ordered
several bottles and rather gleefully left thinking he had really put
one over on the restaurant.

My first reaction when my boss told me this story was that when we
finish the current lawsuit, we not take on any more work for him. If
he's willing to cheat a restaurant, he won't hesitate to cheat anyone
else. And a client like that we do not need or want. My boss
acknowledges my concerns, and says that he is more valuable to the
client than the client is to us, so if I want to cross him off our
client list, it's okay with him.

Am I overreacting?

Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd

--
"If the soup had been as hot as the claret, if the claret had been as
old as the bird, and if the bird's breasts had been as full as the
waitress's, it would have been a very good dinner."

-- Duncan Hines

To reply, replace "spaminator" with "cox"

It is nice to hear there is a law office that only takes on clients
who do not cheat on their spouses, abuse their children, smoke dope,
get drunk driving tickets or look for loopholes in the tax codes. I
thought violations of ethical mores was what kept lawyers in
business. 🙂

"Terry Pulliam Burd" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

As many of you know, I'm a paralegal in a law firm, which has little
to do with the following, but just setting the scene. My boss was
taken by a client to dinner the other night in LA after the execution
of a successful contract. Mind you, the client has a 7 figure plus
bank account, but tends to be a bit slow in paying his bills and a bit
over interested in the cost of things or what he has paid for things.
He also considers himself quite an oenophile.

While he perused the wine list, he found what he was certain was a
typo. Wine X, which is a favorite of his, was priced at $X7 and he was
sure it should have been priced $200 more than that (I checked - he
was right). He promptly ordered 4 bottles, 2 to take home. First of
all, I wasn't aware that you could order wine in a restaurant as if it
was a liquor store (this is southern California, so who knows). More
importantly, I can sort of see ordering 1 bottle while pointing out to
the staff that you think the price is a typo and you should at least
get the one bottle at that price, but I was offended that he ordered
several bottles and rather gleefully left thinking he had really put
one over on the restaurant.

My first reaction when my boss told me this story was that when we
finish the current lawsuit, we not take on any more work for him. If
he's willing to cheat a restaurant, he won't hesitate to cheat anyone
else. And a client like that we do not need or want. My boss
acknowledges my concerns, and says that he is more valuable to the
client than the client is to us, so if I want to cross him off our
client list, it's okay with him.

Am I overreacting?

That depends.

Let's say you were looking for a Cuisinart stand mixer. You check the Bed,
Bath & Beyond web site and see a model you like for $349.00. You call the
store to be sure they have them in stock. You get to the store and find them
priced at $119.00. You're positive it's the same model because you printed
the page from the web site and it's in your hand.

Would you buy it for $119.00, or would you tell an employee that something
was fishy about the price?

Charles Quinn said:

Terry Pulliam Burd <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

While he perused the wine list, he found what he was certain was a
typo. Wine X, which is a favorite of his, was priced at $X7 and he was
sure it should have been priced $200 more than that (I checked - he
was right). He promptly ordered 4 bottles, 2 to take home.

Quoted message said:

My first reaction when my boss told me this story was that when we
finish the current lawsuit, we not take on any more work for him. If
he's willing to cheat a restaurant, he won't hesitate to cheat anyone
else. And a client like that we do not need or want. My boss
acknowledges my concerns, and says that he is more valuable to the
client than the client is to us, so if I want to cross him off our
client list, it's okay with him.

Am I overreacting?

The prices on a menu are a contract. If you are the restaurant and
publish a contract then you are obligated to honor the contract.

Unless they can show there was an error. Contract law allows for
clerical/computational errors.

I worked

Quoted message said:

at a restaurant where we showed a piece of pie in the menu, the one
delivered was not anything like the picture. Manager told me it took
three pieces of pie to make it look as big as the strawberry pie in the
picture.

Terry Pulliam Burd said:

As many of you know, I'm a paralegal in a law firm, which has little
to do with the following, but just setting the scene. My boss was
taken by a client to dinner the other night in LA after the execution
of a successful contract. Mind you, the client has a 7 figure plus
bank account, but tends to be a bit slow in paying his bills and a bit
over interested in the cost of things or what he has paid for things.
He also considers himself quite an oenophile.

While he perused the wine list, he found what he was certain was a
typo. Wine X, which is a favorite of his, was priced at $X7 and he was
sure it should have been priced $200 more than that (I checked - he
was right). He promptly ordered 4 bottles, 2 to take home. First of
all, I wasn't aware that you could order wine in a restaurant as if it
was a liquor store (this is southern California, so who knows). More
importantly, I can sort of see ordering 1 bottle while pointing out to
the staff that you think the price is a typo and you should at least
get the one bottle at that price, but I was offended that he ordered
several bottles and rather gleefully left thinking he had really put
one over on the restaurant.

My first reaction when my boss told me this story was that when we
finish the current lawsuit, we not take on any more work for him. If
he's willing to cheat a restaurant, he won't hesitate to cheat anyone
else. And a client like that we do not need or want. My boss
acknowledges my concerns, and says that he is more valuable to the
client than the client is to us, so if I want to cross him off our
client list, it's okay with him.

Am I overreacting?

Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd

i don't see an ethical problem here. it's sort of a reverse 'buyer
beware.' you may say he's selfish in that two other people will not
get such a hot deal, but that's rather tender-hearted.

it's not like, say, he got $200 dollars over back in change and kept
it.

i wouldn't give him the boot, but i would proofread any contracts with
him very carefully.

your pal,
blake

Terry Pulliam Burd said:

Am I overreacting?

Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd

IMO, no. My mother always told me, if someone is gossiping *to* you,
they are also gossiping about you. Why would thieves be any different?
If somebody takes advantage of someone else's mistake, then they will
take advantage of you. I have made plenty of mistakes, but I would never
cheat anybody out of a nickel. I also would not want to do business with
someone who is that ethically bankrupt.

Becca

"Becca" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Terry Pulliam Burd said:

Am I overreacting? Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd

IMO, no. My mother always told me, if someone is gossiping *to* you, they
are also gossiping about you. Why would thieves be any different? If
somebody takes advantage of someone else's mistake, then they will take
advantage of you. I have made plenty of mistakes, but I would never cheat
anybody out of a nickel. I also would not want to do business with someone
who is that ethically bankrupt.

Becca

Please provide your source which proves that the restaurant made a mistake.

In article <[email hidden]>,

JoeSpareBedroom said:

Let's say you were looking for a Cuisinart stand mixer. You check the Bed,
Bath & Beyond web site and see a model you like for $349.00. You call the
store to be sure they have them in stock. You get to the store and find them
priced at $119.00. You're positive it's the same model because you printed
the page from the web site and it's in your hand.

Would you buy it for $119.00, or would you tell an employee that something
was fishy about the price?

I'd pay the $119 and be grateful that sometimes online and in-store
prices are not the same and that for once I got the break.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com - Fair baking

In article <[email hidden]>,

Terry Pulliam Burd said:

My first reaction when my boss told me this story was that when we
finish the current lawsuit, we not take on any more work for him. If
he's willing to cheat a restaurant, he won't hesitate to cheat anyone
else. And a client like that we do not need or want. My boss
acknowledges my concerns, and says that he is more valuable to the
client than the client is to us, so if I want to cross him off our
client list, it's okay with him.

Am I overreacting?

I think so. The restaurant was willing to make the sale.

As others have mentioned, the restaurant may have bought this wine for
considerably cheaper, and might have a policy of not raising prices
based on current market price. Or more likely, they didn't notice.

I don't point out store errors that are in my favor. I figure that
makes up for the times I get overcharged, and it's a wash.

"Melba's Jammin'" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

JoeSpareBedroom said:

Let's say you were looking for a Cuisinart stand mixer. You check the
Bed,
Bath & Beyond web site and see a model you like for $349.00. You call the
store to be sure they have them in stock. You get to the store and find
them
priced at $119.00. You're positive it's the same model because you
printed
the page from the web site and it's in your hand.

Would you buy it for $119.00, or would you tell an employee that
something
was fishy about the price?

I'd pay the $119 and be grateful that sometimes online and in-store
prices are not the same and that for once I got the break.

Right. And, I'm sure Terry the OP would do exactly the same thing. Now, I
would like to here

*******FROM HER ONLY*********

what the difference is between what she would do, and what her client did.

*******FROM HER ONLY*********
*******FROM HER ONLY*********
*******FROM HER ONLY*********

"JoeSpareBedroom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Melba's Jammin'" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

JoeSpareBedroom said:

Let's say you were looking for a Cuisinart stand mixer. You check the
Bed,
Bath & Beyond web site and see a model you like for $349.00. You call
the
store to be sure they have them in stock. You get to the store and find
them
priced at $119.00. You're positive it's the same model because you
printed
the page from the web site and it's in your hand.

Would you buy it for $119.00, or would you tell an employee that
something
was fishy about the price?

I'd pay the $119 and be grateful that sometimes online and in-store
prices are not the same and that for once I got the break.

Right. And, I'm sure Terry the OP would do exactly the same thing. Now, I
would like to here

HERE??? OR HEAR???????

Quoted message said:

*******FROM HER ONLY*********

Kiss my ass

Quoted message said:

what the difference is between what she would do, and what her client did.

She has you kill-filed. Get over it

Quoted message said:

*******FROM HER ONLY*********

~~~~~~~~KISS MY ASS~~~~~~~~~~~

Quoted message said:

*******FROM HER ONLY*********

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>>>KISS MY ASS, JOE-BLOWROOM<<<<<<<<<<<<<

WHO ARE YOU TO TELL ANYONE WHAT AND WHEN THEY CAN
POST?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Quoted message said:

*******FROM HER ONLY*********
YEAH, RIGHT

"Sammy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"JoeSpareBedroom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Melba's Jammin'" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
"JoeSpareBedroom" <[email hidden]> wrote:

> Let's say you were looking for a Cuisinart stand mixer. You check the
> Bed,
> Bath & Beyond web site and see a model you like for $349.00. You call
> the
> store to be sure they have them in stock. You get to the store and find
> them
> priced at $119.00. You're positive it's the same model because you
> printed
> the page from the web site and it's in your hand.
>
> Would you buy it for $119.00, or would you tell an employee that
> something
> was fishy about the price?

I'd pay the $119 and be grateful that sometimes online and in-store
prices are not the same and that for once I got the break.

Right. And, I'm sure Terry the OP would do exactly the same thing. Now, I
would like to here

HERE??? OR HEAR???????

You never make mistakes.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

*******FROM HER ONLY*********

Kiss my ass

Quoted message said:

what the difference is between what she would do, and what her client
did.

She has you kill-filed. Get over it

Maybe, maybe not. Are you spying on her computer?

I wouldn't call it cheating - he just took advantage of a good deal,
as he saw it. No wonder he's well-heeled.

Maybe you're just a little envious that he got a deal and could afford
to make the purchase? If a relative or close friend related the same
story to you, would you think ill of him or her too, or rejoice in
their little coup?

I'd just let it go.

On Aug 25, 7:56 pm, Terry Pulliam Burd <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

As many of you know, I'm a paralegal in a law firm, [snip]
....
My first reaction when my boss told me this story was that when we
finish the current lawsuit, we not take on any more work for him. If
he's willing to cheat a restaurant, he won't hesitate to cheat anyone
else. And a client like that we do not need or want. [snip]

Am I overreacting?

I think so, in two ways. First, ethical and competent defense
attorneys take on guilty clients all the time. Civil attorneys take
on clients with questionable positions/claims all the time. Think
about why that is, and note that most ethics professors will
comfortably argue that it's a good thing.

Secondly, as the other responses show, the situation is not that far
removed from alert bargain shopping. "Cheating" is too rigid a
judgment -aem.

"val189" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I wouldn't call it cheating - he just took advantage of a good deal,
as he saw it. No wonder he's well-heeled.

This is how Trump got started.