Ethical Query

In article <[email hidden]>,

JoeSpareBedroom said:

"Melba's Jammin'" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

JoeSpareBedroom said:

Let's say you were looking for a Cuisinart stand mixer. You check
the Bed, Bath & Beyond web site and see a model you like for
$349.00. You call the store to be sure they have them in stock.
You get to the store and find them priced at $119.00. You're
positive it's the same model because you printed the page from the
web site and it's in your hand.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Would you buy it for $119.00, or would you tell an employee that
something was fishy about the price?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'd pay the $119 and be grateful that sometimes online and in-store
prices are not the same and that for once I got the break.

Quoted message said:

Right. And, I'm sure Terry the OP would do exactly the same thing. Now, I
would like to here

*******FROM HER ONLY*********

what the difference is between what she would do, and what her client did.

*******FROM HER ONLY*********
*******FROM HER ONLY*********
*******FROM HER ONLY*********

Joe, her posts include email reply information. I'm thinking that if
you want a private exchange with her, you shouldn't post in a public
place.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com - Fair baking

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

As many of you know, I'm a paralegal in a law firm, which has little
to do with the following, but just setting the scene. My boss was
taken by a client to dinner the other night in LA after the execution
of a successful contract. Mind you, the client has a 7 figure plus
bank account, but tends to be a bit slow in paying his bills and a bit
over interested in the cost of things or what he has paid for things.
He also considers himself quite an oenophile.

While he perused the wine list, he found what he was certain was a
typo. Wine X, which is a favorite of his, was priced at $X7 and he was
sure it should have been priced $200 more than that (I checked - he
was right). He promptly ordered 4 bottles, 2 to take home. First of
all, I wasn't aware that you could order wine in a restaurant as if it
was a liquor store (this is southern California, so who knows). More
importantly, I can sort of see ordering 1 bottle while pointing out to
the staff that you think the price is a typo and you should at least
get the one bottle at that price, but I was offended that he ordered
several bottles and rather gleefully left thinking he had really put
one over on the restaurant.

My first reaction when my boss told me this story was that when we
finish the current lawsuit, we not take on any more work for him. If
he's willing to cheat a restaurant, he won't hesitate to cheat anyone
else. And a client like that we do not need or want. My boss
acknowledges my concerns, and says that he is more valuable to the
client than the client is to us, so if I want to cross him off our
client list, it's okay with him.

Am I overreacting?

Not at all, you are being ethical in the best sense of the word. Too
many people think that if they can blame a situation on someone else -
the type for example, or getting too much change back, or a billing
error in your favor - then they are absolved of responsibility. Not so -
cheating is cheating.

--
Peter Aitken

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Regarding the wine list, sometimes a wine stays at a low price
on a winelist even as its market price has gone up with time.
They could have bought it pre-arrival at a bargain, and never
marked it up to market. Probably they are not losing any money.

First of all, pre-arrival purchases never make that much of a difference
in price in wine. Even so, you miss the point. The guy thought he was
taking advantage of the restaurant due to a typo. Hence he is a sleaze.

--
Peter Aitken

In article <[email hidden]>, sf says...

Quoted message said:

Yes, you're over reacting - for the wrong reason. If the restaurant
was willing to part with those bottles of wine for his off-site,
private, consumption - you know they made a profit and he's the one
who lost money.

Jeez, read the post first! You missed the whole point.

--
Peter Aitken

JoeSpareBedroom said:

"val189" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I wouldn't call it cheating - he just took advantage of a good deal,
as he saw it. No wonder he's well-heeled.

This is how Trump got started.

Which Trump, Sr or Jr? The Sr worked his ass off. Jr. (The Donald)
got started by inheriting his father's wealth (not a crime)... he
never cheated anyone, and still hasn't, not ever, not a cent. I went
to High School with Donald Trump, he was the nicest guy you'd ever
want to meet, and smart! Donald Trump has always represented the
epitomy of high ethics.. and if ever there was a Robin Hood it's The
Donald... and no matter how his cards fall you will never ever hear
him whine. If Donald Trump ran for President gettinfg my vote would
be a no brainer, but he will never run for any political office, none
pay enough.

Sheldon

Peter A said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Regarding the wine list, sometimes a wine stays at a low price
on a winelist even as its market price has gone up with time.
They could have bought it pre-arrival at a bargain, and never
marked it up to market. Probably they are not losing any money.

Quoted message said:

First of all, pre-arrival purchases never make that much of a difference
in price in wine.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

I remember buying 1984 Chateau Le Pin for $40 at wholesale
upon landing. It would have been less pre-arrival. A
few years later, we noticed it on the winelist at
Chez Panisse for $105 -- and immediately bought a bottle,
as it would be more than twice that retail.

I see where recent vintages of Le Pin are $800 to $1800/bottle.
http://www.wine-searcher.com/find/Chateau+Le+Pin+Pomerol/1999/-/USD/A/-/0

Steve

"Melba's Jammin'" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

JoeSpareBedroom said:

"Melba's Jammin'" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
"JoeSpareBedroom" <[email hidden]> wrote:

> Let's say you were looking for a Cuisinart stand mixer. You check
> the Bed, Bath & Beyond web site and see a model you like for
> $349.00. You call the store to be sure they have them in stock.
> You get to the store and find them priced at $119.00. You're
> positive it's the same model because you printed the page from the
> web site and it's in your hand.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Would you buy it for $119.00, or would you tell an employee that
> something was fishy about the price?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'd pay the $119 and be grateful that sometimes online and in-store
prices are not the same and that for once I got the break.

Quoted message said:

Right. And, I'm sure Terry the OP would do exactly the same thing. Now, I
would like to here

*******FROM HER ONLY*********

what the difference is between what she would do, and what her client
did.

*******FROM HER ONLY*********
*******FROM HER ONLY*********
*******FROM HER ONLY*********

Joe, her posts include email reply information. I'm thinking that if
you want a private exchange with her, you shouldn't post in a public
place.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ

I was trying to ward off a 6000 message sub thread in which everyone except
her explains what THEY would do about a hot deal on a mixer. There is the
potential for hypocrisy and rationalization here, so I'm really curious.

"Sheldon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

JoeSpareBedroom said:

"val189" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I wouldn't call it cheating - he just took advantage of a good deal,
as he saw it. No wonder he's well-heeled.

This is how Trump got started.

Which Trump, Sr or Jr? The Sr worked his ass off. Jr. (The Donald)
got started by inheriting his father's wealth (not a crime)... he
never cheated anyone, and still hasn't, not ever, not a cent. I went
to High School with Donald Trump, he was the nicest guy you'd ever
want to meet, and smart! Donald Trump has always represented the
epitomy of high ethics.. and if ever there was a Robin Hood it's The
Donald... and no matter how his cards fall you will never ever hear
him whine. If Donald Trump ran for President gettinfg my vote would
be a no brainer, but he will never run for any political office, none
pay enough.

Sheldon

That, and he'd have to share decisions with a bunch of [censored] who don't
even read half the legislation they vote on, **IF** they even bother to show
up for work.

Terry Pulliam Burd said:

Am I overreacting?

If your law firm were doing criminal cases, representing thieves,
murderers and such, would you cross them all off your client list,
driving the firm into bancruptcy?

ObWine: So, what wine was it?! This is what is actually important here,
woman!

Victor

On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 23:52:08 +0200, [email hidden] (Victor Sack)
rummaged among random neurons and opined:

Quoted message said:

Terry Pulliam Burd said:

Am I overreacting?

If your law firm were doing criminal cases, representing thieves,
murderers and such, would you cross them all off your client list,
driving the firm into bancruptcy?

We do civil law (constitutional law, primarily First and Fifth
Amendment). As clean as hands get in law.

I just thought the greed factor with the client was a bit smarmy. I've
pointed out obviously mismarked merchandise to clerks. Not doing so
passes the cost of the mistake along to the rest of us.

And even if the price marked had been correct and the client mistook
it for the more expensive vintage (which I don't think is the case, as
I looked around with Google and an '89 vintage can be $200+), glomming
onto 4 bottles still shows a sleaze factor, IMHO.

Quoted message said:

ObWine: So, what wine was it?! This is what is actually important here,
woman!

It was a 1989 Caymus Vineyards Special Selection Cabernet Sauvignon.
The client is from New York, so their prices might be higher, but it's
still a pricey bottle of wine.

Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd

--
"If the soup had been as hot as the claret, if the claret had been as
old as the bird, and if the bird's breasts had been as full as the
waitress's, it would have been a very good dinner."

-- Duncan Hines

To reply, replace "spaminator" with "cox"

"Terry Pulliam Burd" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

We do civil law (constitutional law, primarily First and Fifth
Amendment). As clean as hands get in law.

Fifth Amendment? As in "I'm not talking because I can say the wrong thing
(like the truth) and get my ass in trouble?" Yeah, that's clean.

Quoted message said:

And even if the price marked had been correct and the client mistook
it for the more expensive vintage (which I don't think is the case, as
I looked around with Google and an '89 vintage can be $200+), glomming
onto 4 bottles still shows a sleaze factor, IMHO.

Have you called the restaurant yet? What did they say? His intentions may
have been borderline sleazy, but he may have gotten what he paird for and
the seller may be quite happy to sell at that price. Supermarkets often
have loss leaders and I take advantage of them whenever I can.

Unless we can determine that an actual error took place, it is only your
speculation that the client did wrong. Let's get that clarified

Terry Pulliam Burd said:

Am I overreacting?

No. You are correct. He's a chiseler and he'll screw your
company one day.

Rich people are by and large cheating someone at something.
We legalize a lot of that cheating, but the reason we
legalized it is usually that someone rich cheated and got
the law changed, and pays a tithe to the lobbying
industry to keep it that way.

Not one rich person is to be trusted.

--Blair

Blair P. Houghton said:

Terry Pulliam Burd said:

Am I overreacting?

No. You are correct. He's a chiseler and he'll screw your
company one day.

Rich people are by and large cheating someone at something.
We legalize a lot of that cheating, but the reason we
legalized it is usually that someone rich cheated and got
the law changed, and pays a tithe to the lobbying
industry to keep it that way.

Not one rich person is to be trusted.

--Blair

You're absolutely right... but what is the threshold for someone being
considered "rich"?

Bob

In article <[email hidden]>,

zxcvbob said:

You're absolutely right... but what is the threshold for someone being
considered "rich"?

Bob

Interesting thought.

Compared to many in third world countries, even many poor (minimum wage
level) here are wealthy with a house/apt. with electricity and running
water, a TV set, refrigerator and microwave.

And usually at least one car. Maybe not in good shape, but still...
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a [censored]" -- Jack Nicholson

"Blair P. Houghton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Rich people are by and large cheating someone at something.
We legalize a lot of that cheating, but the reason we
legalized it is usually that someone rich cheated and got
the law changed, and pays a tithe to the lobbying
industry to keep it that way.

Not one rich person is to be trusted.

--Blair

Does that include wealthy people too? No doubt there are some unscrupulous
rich people, but those of wealth are often very generous. If you've never
seen that side, you've not been exposed to very much in life.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The prices on a menu are a contract. If you are the
restaurant and publish a contract then you are
obligated to honor the contract.

Unless they can show there was an error. Contract law allows for clerical/computational errors.

Technically, the prices on the menu are an offer. An
offer becomes a contract when there is consideration.
That is, when the customer pays or the restaurateur
prepares the ordered food, it becomes a contract.
Until then there is no contract and the restaurant can
refuse the order if they realize there's been an error.

My comment above has nothing to do with the OP's
original question "am I over-reacting?" I would say
no. This client is definitely a sleaze and the firm
will be better off without him. His behavior not only
demeaned himself but those at the table with him by
association.

As to another comment in this thread regarding wealthy
people in general, I think that was unfair. There are
many generous, decent people who also happen to be
rich. Unfortunately, none of them want to do anything
for me. :^)

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-925-8650
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Am I overreacting?

No. You are correct. He's a chiseler and he'll screw your
company one day.

--Blair

Disagree !!! he's an astute buyer.

Ever get a really good price on cereal ? canned goods ?
or any other grocery item ?
Did you buy "extra" ? take advantage of the price ?
Did you question the pricing ?

Given the state of the housing market,
a smart buyer might be shopping for a house
that has defaulted on the mortgage.
And if it's a really good bargain,
will you insist they take more money ?

<rj>

RJ said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Am I overreacting?

No. You are correct. He's a chiseler and he'll screw your
company one day.

--Blair

Disagree !!! he's an astute buyer.

Ever get a really good price on cereal ? canned goods ?
or any other grocery item ?
Did you buy "extra" ? take advantage of the price ?
Did you question the pricing ?

Given the state of the housing market,
a smart buyer might be shopping for a house
that has defaulted on the mortgage.
And if it's a really good bargain,
will you insist they take more money ?

<rj>

Different concepts. Houses have fallen in value and you would be buying
it at market value.
Scooping up a bunch of items that may have been incorrectly priced is a
totally different thing.

In article <[email hidden]>,

RJ said:

Given the state of the housing market,
a smart buyer might be shopping for a house
that has defaulted on the mortgage.
And if it's a really good bargain,
will you insist they take more money ?

<rj>

That is how I got my HUD repo' for 35K.

Current market value is 79K. But, this was 20 years ago.

Not sure that repo' houses are in the same class as mis-marked wine
tho'. ;-)

Nice try.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a [censored]" -- Jack Nicholson

In article <[email hidden]>,

George said:

RJ said:

Quoted message said:

> Am I overreacting?
No. You are correct. He's a chiseler and he'll screw your
company one day.

--Blair

Disagree !!! he's an astute buyer.

Ever get a really good price on cereal ? canned goods ?
or any other grocery item ?
Did you buy "extra" ? take advantage of the price ?
Did you question the pricing ?

Given the state of the housing market,
a smart buyer might be shopping for a house
that has defaulted on the mortgage.
And if it's a really good bargain,
will you insist they take more money ?

<rj>

Different concepts. Houses have fallen in value and you would be buying
it at market value.
Scooping up a bunch of items that may have been incorrectly priced is a
totally different thing.

Agreed.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a [censored]" -- Jack Nicholson