Framebuilders pricing...

Did you ask him why the difference?

You can always pay in USD, current exchange rate is around 84cents which means $USD1250 is $1488 Oz.

On Apr 20, 11:16 am, matagi <matagi.2pb...@no-

mx.forums.cyclingforums.com said:

Did you ask him why the difference?

You can always pay in USD, current exchange rate is around 84cents
which means $USD1250 is $1488 Oz.

--
matagi

I asked him why do I pay $1900Aus if I live in the US, but have to pay
nearly 50% more if I live in Australia. He indicated that the US
prices are set so that the frames are competitive in the US. 80% of
his sales are in the US, but the other 20% 'subsidise' the US sales.

It didn't make a lot of sense to me. If your product is good (and I
believe it is) price it accordingly. I don't mind paying for quality,
or at least, I can understand paying for quality.

It isn't a matter of paying in US dollars. You are required to be
living in the US to receive his US price list.

Wierd, huh?

Brendo

In aus.bicycle on 19 Apr 2007 21:39:45 -0700

Brendo said:

It didn't make a lot of sense to me. If your product is good (and I
believe it is) price it accordingly. I don't mind paying for quality,
or at least, I can understand paying for quality.

sounds like "market for lemons" or similar, mentioned at
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2007/04/a_security_mark.html

=========

In 1970, American economist George Akerlof wrote a paper called "The
Market for 'Lemons'" which established asymmetrical information theory. He
eventually won a Nobel Prize for his work, which looks at markets where
the seller knows a lot more about the product than the buyer.

Akerlof illustrated his ideas with a used car market. A used car
market includes both good cars and lousy ones (lemons). The seller
knows which is which, but the buyer can't tell the difference -- at
least until he's made his purchase. I'll spare you the math, but what
ends up happening is that the buyer bases his purchase price on the
value of a used car of average quality.

This means that the best cars don't get sold; their prices are too
high. Which means that the owners of these best cars don't put their
cars on the market. And then this starts spiraling. The removal of the
good cars from the market reduces the average price buyers are willing
to pay, and then the very good cars no longer sell, and disappear from
the market. And then the good cars, and so on until only the lemons
are left.

In a market where the seller has more information about the product
than the buyer, bad products can drive the good ones out of the
market.

=========

Pretty much there are more frames available, the US market won't buy
the expensive ones because most folk can't tell the difference, so
won't pay the money.

Zebee

"Zebee Johnstone" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In aus.bicycle on 19 Apr 2007 21:39:45 -0700

Brendo said:

It didn't make a lot of sense to me. If your product is good (and I
believe it is) price it accordingly. I don't mind paying for quality,
or at least, I can understand paying for quality.

sounds like "market for lemons" or similar, mentioned at
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2007/04/a_security_mark.html

=========

In 1970, American economist George Akerlof wrote a paper called "The
Market for 'Lemons'" which established asymmetrical information theory. He
eventually won a Nobel Prize for his work, which looks at markets where
the seller knows a lot more about the product than the buyer.

Akerlof illustrated his ideas with a used car market. A used car
market includes both good cars and lousy ones (lemons).

I get the concept, I just can't grasp how that was worth a Nobel prize...

Brendo said:

I've been emailing some framebuilders re a new steel frame. I'm not
listing names, but I was quoted $1250US for a frame and $350US for a
fork, because he thought the WA was Washington, not Western Australia.
When the error was discovered, the local price list was given -
$2450AUS for the frame $450 for the fork.

At current exchange rates, I would pay $1905AUS if I lived in the US,
but $2900AUS in Australia.

What would account for the difference? I imagine it's because he
hasn't updated his US price list to take into account the value of the
South Pacific Peso. If it isn't, what's going on?

Brendo

Postage on a frame from the US to here costs about AU$400, so that should account for some of the difference. Where the extra $600 comes from is a mystery to me though.

On Apr 20, 1:37 pm, SomeGuy <SomeGuy.2pb...@no-

mx.forums.cyclingforums.com said:

Brendo Wrote:> I've been emailing some framebuilders re a new steel frame. I'm not

Quoted message said:

listing names, but I was quoted $1250US for a frame and $350US for a
fork, because he thought the WA was Washington, not Western Australia.
When the error was discovered, the local price list was given -
$2450AUS for the frame $450 for the fork.

Quoted message said:

At current exchange rates, I would pay $1905AUS if I lived in the US,
but $2900AUS in Australia.

Quoted message said:

What would account for the difference? I imagine it's because he
hasn't updated his US price list to take into account the value of the
South Pacific Peso. If it isn't, what's going on?

Quoted message said:

Brendo

Postage on a frame from the US to here costs about AU$400, so that
should account for some of the difference. Where the extra $600 comes
from is a mystery to me though.

--
SomeGuy

Which I could understand, if he was posting from the US to here. But,
he's an Australian builder. He posts from his workshop in Australia to
me in Australia. If anything, that makes the US price even cheaper.

I'm contacting some US and UK framebuilders to see if that sort of
thing works in reverse i.e a frame that would cost a Yank $2500Aus
will only cost me $1800.

Results will follow...

Brendo

On Apr 20, 3:37 pm, SomeGuy <SomeGuy.2pb...@no-

mx.forums.cyclingforums.com said:

Brendo Wrote:> I've been emailing some framebuilders re a new steel frame. I'm not

Quoted message said:

listing names, but I was quoted $1250US for a frame and $350US for a
fork, because he thought the WA was Washington, not Western Australia.
When the error was discovered, the local price list was given -
$2450AUS for the frame $450 for the fork.

Quoted message said:

At current exchange rates, I would pay $1905AUS if I lived in the US,
but $2900AUS in Australia.

Quoted message said:

What would account for the difference? I imagine it's because he
hasn't updated his US price list to take into account the value of the
South Pacific Peso. If it isn't, what's going on?

Quoted message said:

Brendo

Postage on a frame from the US to here costs about AU$400, so that
should account for some of the difference. Where the extra $600 comes
from is a mystery to me though.

--
SomeGuy

Naah, that's only if you get the rip-job. I'm sure you can do better.

Brendo said:

On Apr 20, 1:37 pm, SomeGuy <SomeGuy.2pb...@no-

mx.forums.cyclingforums.com said:

Brendo Wrote:> I've been emailing some framebuilders re a new steel frame. I'm not

Quoted message said:

listing names, but I was quoted $1250US for a frame and $350US for a
fork, because he thought the WA was Washington, not Western Australia.
When the error was discovered, the local price list was given -
$2450AUS for the frame $450 for the fork.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

At current exchange rates, I would pay $1905AUS if I lived in the US,
but $2900AUS in Australia.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What would account for the difference? I imagine it's because he
hasn't updated his US price list to take into account the value of the
South Pacific Peso. If it isn't, what's going on?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Brendo

Quoted message said:

Postage on a frame from the US to here costs about AU$400, so that
should account for some of the difference. Where the extra $600 comes
from is a mystery to me though.

Quoted message said:

--
SomeGuy

Which I could understand, if he was posting from the US to here. But,
he's an Australian builder. He posts from his workshop in Australia to
me in Australia. If anything, that makes the US price even cheaper.

I'm contacting some US and UK framebuilders to see if that sort of
thing works in reverse i.e a frame that would cost a Yank $2500Aus
will only cost me $1800.

Results will follow...

Brendo- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Oh come on, don't be coy, give us a name.

Campag_nut said:

"Zebee Johnstone" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In aus.bicycle on 19 Apr 2007 21:39:45 -0700

Brendo said:

It didn't make a lot of sense to me. If your product is good (and I
believe it is) price it accordingly. I don't mind paying for quality,
or at least, I can understand paying for quality.

sounds like "market for lemons" or similar, mentioned at
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2007/04/a_security_mark.html

=========

In 1970, American economist George Akerlof wrote a paper called "The
Market for 'Lemons'" which established asymmetrical information theory. He
eventually won a Nobel Prize for his work, which looks at markets where
the seller knows a lot more about the product than the buyer.

Akerlof illustrated his ideas with a used car market. A used car
market includes both good cars and lousy ones (lemons).

I get the concept, I just can't grasp how that was worth a Nobel prize...

That's easy. I'm guessing it was a Nobel prize in economics
which is known as the "dismal science" - you don't have to do
much to stand out in the economics crowd.

DeF (a mathematician, does it show?)

--
e-mail: d.farrow@your finger.murdoch.edu.au
To reply, you'll have to remove your finger.

Donga said:

On Apr 20, 3:37 pm, SomeGuy <SomeGuy.2pb...@no-

mx.forums.cyclingforums.com said:

Brendo Wrote:> I've been emailing some framebuilders re a new steel frame. I'm not

Quoted message said:

listing names, but I was quoted $1250US for a frame and $350US for a
fork, because he thought the WA was Washington, not Western Australia.
When the error was discovered, the local price list was given -
$2450AUS for the frame $450 for the fork.

Quoted message said:

At current exchange rates, I would pay $1905AUS if I lived in the US,
but $2900AUS in Australia.

Quoted message said:

What would account for the difference? I imagine it's because he
hasn't updated his US price list to take into account the value of the
South Pacific Peso. If it isn't, what's going on?

Quoted message said:

Brendo

Postage on a frame from the US to here costs about AU$400, so that
should account for some of the difference. Where the extra $600 comes
from is a mystery to me though.

--
SomeGuy

Naah, that's only if you get the rip-job. I'm sure you can do better.

Frames don't fit within USPS size requirements, so if you are freighting them on a regular basis it rules that option out. Without USPS you are stuck with the couriers, and they charge about $300-400 based on the size of the package.

Brendo said:

Which I could understand, if he was posting from the US to here. But,
he's an Australian builder. He posts from his workshop in Australia to
me in Australia. If anything, that makes the US price even cheaper.

Are you sure he's an Australian builder and not an Australian designer
getting frames made in the US like Thylacine for example.

Parbs

Zebee Johnstone said:

In a market where the seller has more information about the product
than the buyer, bad products can drive the good ones out of the
market.

Sadly lacks justification to apply to a different market. It is feasible
for Joe SixPack to buy a bicycle frame anywhere in the world and have it
shipped to him. To do so with a motor vehicle, usually requires Joe Wine
Cellar.

Quoted message said:

Pretty much there are more frames available, the US market won't buy
the expensive ones because most folk can't tell the difference, so
won't pay the money.

Am I the only one to remember that some very expensive frames turned out
to be made in Taiwan in the same factory as Kmart/Huffy/WalMart ones.

In aus.bicycle on Fri, 20 Apr 2007 18:18:27 +1000

Terryc said:

Zebee Johnstone said:

In a market where the seller has more information about the product
than the buyer, bad products can drive the good ones out of the
market.

Sadly lacks justification to apply to a different market. It is feasible
for Joe SixPack to buy a bicycle frame anywhere in the world and have it
shipped to him. To do so with a motor vehicle, usually requires Joe Wine
Cellar.

BUt does Joe Rider know what he's buying?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Pretty much there are more frames available, the US market won't buy
the expensive ones because most folk can't tell the difference, so
won't pay the money.

Am I the only one to remember that some very expensive frames turned out
to be made in Taiwan in the same factory as Kmart/Huffy/WalMart ones.

Exactly. How many people know what they are getting? I suspect many
look at high priced bikes and think "same factory" and won't pay more.

So a good bike is competing with average bikes, people say "bikes cost
$x" and that's that.

People who ask me about the 'bent can't comprehend a bike can cost
that much. There are bicycles - 'bent and upright - that cost a lot
more than that, most folk don't know about them. So a bike that looks
pretty much like a $1k bike, will people pay $2k for it? Lots of
advertising dollars are spent to try and make it so.

Zebee

Zebee Johnstone said:

snip...all about lemons...

Pretty much there are more frames available, the US market won't buy
the expensive ones because most folk can't tell the difference, so
won't pay the money.

Zebee

they have their ups and downs.... look at the Pharma industry, and the US market pays absurd prices for Pharmaceuticals that cost a fraction of the price in Canada .... ah market economics of the US, like its citizenry, a dog eat dog worry....win a few , lose a lot.

come to think of it, how many people here (who still do drive cars) buy their fuel after lunch on Wednesdays..( the traditional pre-pay day price gauging increase time).... apparently according to the Oil Co's its about market pricing...seems more like every one has a bit more dosh on pay day so they slugg you a lot more...Come Monday when you have spent it all and they need cars at the bowser, price drops 15cents/litre and the merry go round continues..week in week out...

Brendo...Pay the guy in USD at the quoted US price ( if you really want his frame). I think if he wants the sale he will not object too much to forgo his super profit now that you have caught him out.

Zebee Johnstone said:

In aus.bicycle on Fri, 20 Apr 2007 18:18:27 +1000

Terryc said:

Zebee Johnstone said:

In a market where the seller has more information about the product
than the buyer, bad products can drive the good ones out of the
market.

Sadly lacks justification to apply to a different market. It is feasible
for Joe SixPack to buy a bicycle frame anywhere in the world and have it
shipped to him. To do so with a motor vehicle, usually requires Joe Wine
Cellar.

BUt does Joe Rider know what he's buying?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Pretty much there are more frames available, the US market won't buy
the expensive ones because most folk can't tell the difference, so
won't pay the money.

Am I the only one to remember that some very expensive frames turned out
to be made in Taiwan in the same factory as Kmart/Huffy/WalMart ones.

Exactly. How many people know what they are getting? I suspect many
look at high priced bikes and think "same factory" and won't pay more.

That was my point.

Quoted message said:

So a good bike is competing with average bikes,

Correct.

Quoted message said:

people say "bikes cost $x" and that's that.

More likely "I'm only prepared to pay $y for a bicycle"

Since I've ridden most of the way around Australia on a bicycle that
cost less than $500, I fail to see why I'd spend more than that.

$500 is a good price, to me because I've had it for 20 years. I can now
see the reason for buying a $500 bicycle because the Kmart special that
I had before broke and I had a very long scooter home (Wiseman's to
Gosford. Okay, its mostly downhill once you get to Mangrove Mtn).

Basically bicyle manufacturers have consistently failed to convince the
average person that $500 is a good price for a bicycle. You'd think
they'd have learnt 30 years after the bicycle boom.

In aus.bicycle on Fri, 20 Apr 2007 22:34:24 +1000

Terryc said:

Since I've ridden most of the way around Australia on a bicycle that
cost less than $500, I fail to see why I'd spend more than that.

$500 is a good price, to me because I've had it for 20 years. I can now

Um.... How many mars bars did $500 buy in 1987?

Zebee

"Brendo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I asked him why do I pay $1900Aus if I live in the US, but have to pay
nearly 50% more if I live in Australia. He indicated that the US
prices are set so that the frames are competitive in the US. 80% of
his sales are in the US, but the other 20% 'subsidise' the US sales.

Sounds like [censored]. I've bought several US-made frames from the US,
including one custom lugged frame, and my price was exactly the same as for
a US customer except for shipping.

Nick

Zebee Johnstone said:

Terryc wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Since I've ridden most of the way around Australia on a bicycle that
cost less than $500, I fail to see why I'd spend more than that.

$500 is a good price, to me because I've had it for 20 years. I can
now

Quoted message said:

Um.... How many mars bars did $500 buy in 1987?

$500 got you an entry level non-K-Mart bike in 1987, not an expensive one. I
paid $1800 for a bike in 1987.

Theo

Theo Bekkers said:

$500 got you an entry level non-K-Mart bike in 1987, not an expensive one. I
paid $1800 for a bike in 1987.

And how many times since then have you ridden around Australia on it?

<I think that makes my point, but as I'm fresh out of an RLC circuits
practical lab test it might just be my head resonating>