cleaning fun...(not)

"gravelmuncher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Any suggestions on solvents for cleaning the drivetrain, and where to buy them?

Kerosene, from a supermarket.

"gravelmuncher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Any suggestions on solvents for cleaning the drivetrain, and where to buy them?

On the flip side...

Other than expensive bike store lubricant, what do people use for oiling their chain?

Motorcycle chain oil?

Looking from the perspective of a comuter bike - not a racing bike. So it is ridden in the rain with
lots of [censored] going onto the drive train without necessarily very regular cleaning or oiling ;-)

Tim

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Any suggestions on solvents for cleaning the drivetrain, and where to buy them?

Kero or Diggers degreaser

Want to know how to clean your chain see: sheldonbrown.comchains.htmlOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

On the flip side...

Other than expensive bike store lubricant, what do people use for oiling their chain?

Motorcycle chain oil?

Yep works fine

SR

"Tim Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Other than expensive bike store lubricant, what do people use for oiling their chain?

Motorcycle chain oil?

This is IMHO by far the best stuff to use. It foams when it comes out of the can, to penetrate in
under the rollers, and is a decent weight, so it stays there. I use motorcycle chain oil on all my
bikes (racing and commuting).

Failing that, ordinary motor oil is good too.

Just don't use wax or white lightning, as its build up is _really_ hard to remove.

Regards,

Suzy

Suzy Jackson said:

"Tim Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Other than expensive bike store lubricant, what do people use for oiling their chain?

Motorcycle chain oil?

This is IMHO by far the best stuff to use. It foams when it comes out of the can, to penetrate in
under the rollers, and is a decent weight, so it stays there. I use motorcycle chain oil on all my
bikes (racing and commuting).

Failing that, ordinary motor oil is good too.

Just don't use wax or white lightning, as its build up is _really_ hard to remove.

I use Singer light machine oil on mine, and it seems to work OK, but I've never used anything else.
so I can't compare it with anything...

David

--

There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and
why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and
inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened.

-- Douglas Adams, "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy"

"Suzy Jackson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Tim Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Other than expensive bike store lubricant, what do people use for oiling their chain?

Motorcycle chain oil?

This is IMHO by far the best stuff to use. It foams when it comes out of the can, to penetrate in
under the rollers, and is a decent weight, so it stays there. I use motorcycle chain oil on all my
bikes (racing and commuting).

Failing that, ordinary motor oil is good too.

Just don't use wax or white lightning, as its build up is _really_ hard to remove.

Thanks for the answers everyone!

Tim

Tim Jones said:

Other than expensive bike store lubricant, what do people use for oiling their chain?

Motorcycle chain oil?

Sure, thats good for regular riding. Its penetrating, and easy to apply. But like any oil, dirt
sticks. So if you ride in dirt, consider a dry lube. It needs to be applied much more often though.
And its only the inside of the chain that needs to be lubed, so wipe excess oil off the outside.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Anonymous

BTim Jones said:

Other than expensive bike store lubricant, what do people use for oiling their chain?

Motorcycle chain oil?

Sure, thats good for regular riding. Its penetrating, and easy to apply. But like any oil, dirt
sticks. So if you ride in dirt, consider a dry lube. It needs to be applied much more often though.
And its only the inside of the chain that needs to be lubed, so wipe excess oil off the outside. [/B]

I found a spray/lube/displacer with zonyl in it, so i'll give it a go. You see, I've just bought a new Trek 1400 and i'm absolutely terrified that i'll do something to hurt it. I've also heard that it's best to clean the chain on the bike, as breaking the chain only shortens the lifespan of that particular link(???) kinda makes sense really. Although, the same person says not to run a hose over the bike so as not to get water in bearings - but what about rain? and how the hell are you to get the damn soap off?! So now my pride and joy is getting dirtier and i'm still scared i'm gonna stuff something.
I did buy some kerosene to degrease it though...guess now i just need to figure the best way to go about it.

"gravelmuncher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

You see, I've just bought a new Trek 1400 and i'm absolutely terrified that i'll do something to
hurt it. I've also heard that it's best to clean the chain on the bike, as breaking the chain only
shortens the lifespan of that particular link(???) kinda makes sense really.

SRAM make neat little master links that you can open without tools. Their chains are much better
than the Shimano/Campy equivalents in terms of useability.

Quoted message said:

Although, the same person says not to run a hose over the bike so as not to get water in bearings
- but what about rain? and how the hell are you to get the damn soap off?! So now my pride and joy
is getting dirtier and i'm still scared i'm gonna stuff something. I did buy some kerosene to
degrease it though...guess now i just need to figure the best way to go about it.

Don't worry - you'll scratch it soon, and then you'll be able to enjoy it that much better.

Regards,

Suzy

"Tim Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Other than expensive bike store lubricant, what do people use for oiling their chain?

Parrafin wax. the best, say goodbye to dirty hands! Chains seem to last as long as using any
other method.

gravelmuncher <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anonymous said:

Tim Jones said:

Other than expensive bike store lubricant, what do people use for oiling their chain?

Motorcycle chain oil?

Sure, thats good for regular riding. Its penetrating, and easy to apply. But like any oil,
dirt sticks. So if you ride in dirt, consider a dry lube. It needs to be applied much more
often though. And its

only

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the inside of the chain that needs to be lubed, so wipe excess oil off the outside.

I found a spray/lube/displacer with zonyl in it, so i'll give it a go. You see, I've just bought a
new Trek 1400 and i'm absolutely terrified that i'll do something to hurt it. I've also heard that
it's best to clean the chain on the bike, as breaking the chain only shortens the lifespan of that
particular link(???) kinda makes sense really.

It's a problem with cheap and nasty chains. After a while though, you do get good at breaking chains
though. Oiling the link before breaking it can do wonders (would you believe???). And naturally
breaking it at a different point each time makes sense.

Quoted message said:

Although, the same person says not to run a hose over the bike so as not to get water in bearings
- but what about rain? and how the hell are you to get the damn soap off?! So now my pride and joy
is getting dirtier and i'm still scared i'm gonna stuff something. I did buy some kerosene to
degrease it though...guess now i just need to figure the best way to go about it.

With regards to your bearings, if they are well packed with grease, getting water in should not be a
big problem. The primary purpose of the grease is not lubrication, but to keep dirt and water out.
Dirt and poorly adjusted cones are the two things that will kill bearings and cones faster than
anything else.

There are super-greases, like MBL, which definitely do assist in lubrication, but you have to
reapply it pretty regularly. The benefits of the reduced friction are very small.
---
DFM

Deep Freud Moors said:

gravelmuncher <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I found a spray/lube/displacer with zonyl in it, so i'll give it a go. You see, I've just bought a
new Trek 1400 and i'm absolutely terrified that i'll do something to hurt it. I've also heard that
it's best to clean the chain on the bike, as breaking the chain only shortens the lifespan of that
particular link(???) kinda makes sense really.

Its also less effort to clean it on the bike. Just get one of those gadgets that clips onto the
chain, and runs it between three brush wheels, through a degreaser bath. Less than $20.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Although, the same person says not to run a hose over the bike so as not to get water in bearings
- but what about rain?

Slightly exagerrated. Don't run a HIGH PRESSURE hose intop the bearings. ie, keep the pressure down,
or be careful where you aim it.

Quoted message said:

With regards to your bearings, if they are well packed with grease, getting water in should not
be a big problem. The primary purpose of the grease is not lubrication, but to keep dirt and
water out.

You forgot noise! I hate the squeal of dry bearings.

"Tim Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"gravelmuncher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Any suggestions on solvents for cleaning the drivetrain, and where to buy them?

On the flip side...

Other than expensive bike store lubricant, what do people use for oiling their chain?

85/140W oil (manual transmission or hypoiid gear oil) it's the heaviest I've found. It's a bit thick
so I soak the chain on a baking tin in the oven so it heats up and penetrates well.

Quoted message said:

Motorcycle chain oil?

Some motorcyle chain lubes may be ok but avoid the heavier chain 'waxes'. I used some once that
almost seized[1] the chain at low temperatures, it's designed to operate at much higher temps on a
motorbike.

[86] was too stiff to change direction fast enough around the jockey wheels.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

With regards to your bearings, if they are well packed with grease,

getting

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

water in should not be a big problem. The primary purpose of the grease

is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

not lubrication, but to keep dirt and water out.

You forgot noise! I hate the squeal of dry bearings.

I've never actually come across squeaky bearings as yet. Seen plenty of completely stuff ones, that
have corroded and still been ridden, but usually they just grind.

But it's the sound of a dry chain just sends shivers up my spine. I can't stand that. Once I got
this guy to pull his bike over, and I oiled his chain for him!
---
DFM

Deep Freud Moors:

Quoted message said:

With regards to your bearings, if they are well packed with grease, getting water in should not
be a big problem. The primary purpose of the grease is not lubrication, but to keep dirt and
water out.

Not true. In bearings the primary purpose of grease is lubrication. The primary purpose of seals is
keeping water and dirt out.

Jose Rizal <_@_._> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Deep Freud Moors:

Quoted message said:

With regards to your bearings, if they are well packed with grease,

getting

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

water in should not be a big problem. The primary purpose of the grease

is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

not lubrication, but to keep dirt and water out.

Not true. In bearings the primary purpose of grease is lubrication. The primary purpose of seals
is keeping water and dirt out.

Yes true. Grease is grease, and not designed as a lubricant. Oil is designed as a lubricant, grease
is not. It does treat the metal surfaces to a degree, but any lubricating effect disappears quickly.

When you pack your bearings with grease, it gets pushed out of the way of the bearings after a
couple of turns, and does not return due to its viscosity. The driest part of the bearing assembly
is usually the surface where the bearings run. Whilst that surface is clean, there are no probs.
Basic wheels nowadays are not sealed either, but have donut-shaped little caps, which are designed
to work in conjunction with the grease to keep dirt and water out.
---
DFM

Deep Freud Moors:

Quoted message said:

Jose Rizal <_@_._> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Deep Freud Moors:

Quoted message said:

With regards to your bearings, if they are well packed with grease,

getting

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

water in should not be a big problem. The primary purpose of the grease

is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

not lubrication, but to keep dirt and water out.

Not true. In bearings the primary purpose of grease is lubrication. The primary purpose of seals
is keeping water and dirt out.

Quoted message said:

Yes true. Grease is grease, and not designed as a lubricant. Oil is designed as a lubricant,
grease is not. It does treat the metal surfaces to a degree, but any lubricating effect disappears
quickly.

And where did you get this little gem of a myth from? You may think you have a new contrary insight
into something that's been established by tribology science hundreds of years ago, but I think
you're just making it up. Read any basic tribology book.

Quoted message said:

When you pack your bearings with grease, it gets pushed out of the way of the bearings after a
couple of turns, and does not return due to its viscosity.

So why do you think your bearings remain lubricated when only grease is ever applied by the
manufacturer/mechanic?

Grease consists of oil and carrier compound. The carrier is thick and while the bulk of it may be
pushed out of the way of the bearing/race interface, the oil remains between the contact patch and
the carrier/oil compound which stays around the path ensures a steady supply of lubricant.

Quoted message said:

The driest part of the bearing assembly is usually the surface where the bearings run.

Please. The bearing/race contact path is not in fact dry, but lubricated with a thin film provided
by the grease. Even with a tremendous load the film remains; the only way to eliminate the lubricant
is to wash it away with solvent or stop replenishing it, in which case it may dry up eventually.
Grease ensures adequate lubricant supply for a longer time than mere oil.

Quoted message said:

Whilst that surface is clean, there are no probs. Basic wheels nowadays are not sealed either, but
have donut-shaped little caps, which are designed to work in conjunction with the grease to keep
dirt and water out.

Grease as water and dirt barrier is a secondary characteristic, not primary. Grease in fact attracts
dirt. It's not a substitute for seals. If it were so, seals for bearings or any rotating machinery
will not be necessary.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yes true. Grease is grease, and not designed as a lubricant. Oil is designed as a lubricant,
grease is not. It does treat the metal surfaces to a degree, but any lubricating effect disappears
quickly.

And where did you get this little gem of a myth from?

OK guys, grease is definitely a lubricant, but what exactly is its effect in a bike wheel hub?

How is this theory: grease primarily lubricates the low-load ball-ball (or ball-race) contact areas
to reduce wear and prolong bearing life. Friction on the _rolling_ hub/cone-bearing contact is
minimal, and doesnt directly need grease, just to keep the bearings in good condition.

Jose Rizal <_@_._> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Deep Freud Moors:

Quoted message said:

Jose Rizal <_@_._> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Deep Freud Moors:

> With regards to your bearings, if they are well packed with grease,

getting

Quoted message said:

> water in should not be a big problem. The primary purpose of the

grease

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

is

Quoted message said:

> not lubrication, but to keep dirt and water out.

Not true. In bearings the primary purpose of grease is lubrication. The primary purpose of
seals is keeping water and dirt out.

Quoted message said:

Yes true. Grease is grease, and not designed as a lubricant. Oil is

designed

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

as a lubricant, grease is not. It does treat the metal surfaces to a

degree,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

but any lubricating effect disappears quickly.

And where did you get this little gem of a myth from? You may think you have a new contrary
insight into something that's been established by tribology science hundreds of years ago, but I
think you're just making it up. Read any basic tribology book.

You were the one that claimed it to not be true. Provide a couple of cites, and I might just come
around to your view.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

When you pack your bearings with grease, it gets pushed out of the way

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the bearings after a couple of turns, and does not return due to its viscosity.

So why do you think your bearings remain lubricated when only grease is ever applied by the
manufacturer/mechanic?

Grease consists of oil and carrier compound. The carrier is thick and while the bulk of it may be
pushed out of the way of the bearing/race interface, the oil remains between the contact patch and
the carrier/oil compound which stays around the path ensures a steady supply of lubricant.

That is what I would constitute as "treating" the metal surface.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The driest part of the bearing assembly is usually the surface where the bearings run.

Please. The bearing/race contact path is not in fact dry, but lubricated with a thin film provided
by the grease. Even with a tremendous load the film remains; the only way to eliminate the
lubricant is to wash it away with solvent or stop replenishing it, in which case it may dry up
eventually. Grease ensures adequate lubricant supply for a longer time than mere oil.

I said "driest". I did not say dry. Yes the grease treats the metal causing it to last longer.
Whether or not this constitutes "lubrication" is up for debate, but bugger all of the grease hangs
around the bearing contact surfaces.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Whilst that surface is clean, there are no probs. Basic wheels nowadays are not sealed either,
but have donut-shaped

little

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

caps, which are designed to work in conjunction with the grease to keep

dirt

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and water out.

Grease as water and dirt barrier is a secondary characteristic, not primary.

Utter [censored]. Dirt will kill bearings MUCH faster than an absence of grease. Clean dry bearings
will run for a long time, dirty bearings (even when greased) will not.

Quoted message said:

Grease in fact attracts dirt. It's not a substitute for seals. If it were so, seals for bearings
or any rotating machinery will not be necessary.

That is why both seals and grease are used.
---
DFM