cleaning fun...(not)

"Theo Bekkers" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

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Not quite, Theo. In common english usage, "grease" can refer to solid oils, such as animal fat.
But lubricating "grease" is completely different. It just looks the same, hence the same name.
As he said, its oil + thickeners.

I believe the context of the discussion was grease as used on bicycles. I don't think anyone was
advocating the use of chicken fat in their bottom bracket. :-)

Probably closer than you think. The two main thickers of grease are soap or clay (for high temp
work) well, soap is just animal fat and caustic soda.

Jose Rizal <_@_._> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Deep Freud Moors:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>
> Utter [censored]. Dirt will kill bearings MUCH faster than an absence

of

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Quoted message said:

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> grease. Clean dry bearings will run for a long time, dirty bearings

(even

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> when greased) will not.

Don't change the subject. Grease's secondary property as water and

dirt

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barrier is what's been pointed out, NOT whether dirt is destructive to bearings.

You are the one that is trying to change the subject!!! It was

originally

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about wheel bearings, if you can recall correctly. You avoided that last comparison because it
illustrates my point rather concisely, doesn't it!

Nope. You made several false statements about grease, and whether it's used for bearings or
turbine rotors or gears, the primary purpose of it is lubrication. I see you skipped all the
statements about grease being a lubricant, and not provided an iota of factual data about why you
think otherwise.

As opposed to the plethora of factual data you provided!!!!

I gave a comparison which no-one is disputing. Instead you just tried to drag the topic into bike
unrelated stuff, hoping to catch me out for some reason.
---
DFM

Jose Rizal <_@_._> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Deep Freud Moors:

Quoted message said:

Crikey, do I have to go back to my original statement yet again???

"The primary purpose of the grease is not lubrication, but to keep dirt

and

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water out."

Note that it says "primary", not "sole".

It's still wrong, and it doesn't matter how many times you state it. The primary purpose of grease
is lubrication. Educate yourself and you won't have to make up things like this. It's annoying for
most of everyone of us who know better.

It's annoying you because what I say stands up, and your only way of dealing with it is to try
change the subject. I suggest you take some time out and do some yoga or some [censored].

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Grease does provide somewhat of a lubricating effect,

It provides more than a "somewhat" lubricating effect, it provides *all the necessary* lubrication
required by the bearings.

Which is somewhat of a lubricating effect, is it not?

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but its role of inhibiting dirt from getting into the bearings is much more important

from a

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reliability point of view.

What rubbish. Why do you make up things like this?

Now folks, watch as Jose completely misinterprets what I said, and starts crapping on about
something else...

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A secondary benefit of grease is its water repellency, not dirt repellency.

WHOAH!!! Yes, folks, that was a massive leap into something unrelated! Why am I continuing with this
guy? I dunno...

Quoted message said:

You might think that grease prevents dirt getting into the rotating parts, but you are again
wrong. Dirt is a killer in being entrained in grease, as it will eventually be carried into the
moving parts.

Dirt is a bearing killer whether in grease or not. Contrary to what you just said, grease provides
an effective barrier against dirt when applied correctly.

Quoted message said:

You've been making all these wrong claims about grease, it's time you cut your losses and go.

Pretending that you're right will only delude yourself. You wont even address the point I am making,
choosing to change the subject instead.
---
DFM

"Deep Freud Moors" wrote

Quoted message said:

I gave a comparison which no-one is disputing.

I dispute that. :-)

Theo

Al User said:

Yes, but use a low pressure garden hose and try not to concentrate the stream at the hubs, bottom
bracket or steerer tube.

A shimano team mechanic I was talking with a few years ago said that he only ever used a bucket, a
small amount of dishwashing detergent and a large soft brush (like a dustpan brush). The point was
that he washed and serviced the team bikes after *every* ride, so the dirt was never caked on to a
point that it had to be blasted off

Al.

That's what I do! Except for the part about every ride. After the wash I wipe over the bike with a
rag soaked in turps then I wash it again then rinse it. For the chain I soak it in turps then rinse
it then dry it with metho.

--
Cheers Damian Harvey

This space reserved for standard disclaimer, witty quote, plug for own business in caps and large,
bad ASCII art.

Arpit said:

Is it ok to hose a bike to clean it?

Not under current water restrictions if you are in Sydney.

"Not Very" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Arpit said:

Is it ok to hose a bike to clean it?

Not under current water restrictions if you are in Sydney.

Just stand the bike on the lawn and water the lawn.

Suzy Jackson said:

"Arpit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Is it ok to hose a bike to clean it?

Not with the water restrictions. Use a bucket.

Regards,

Suzy

I dunno what your personal attitude is on this, but I hosed my bike thhe other day, I used really
low pressure, just to get the ugly mud off. More pressure than rain - I didn it while it was raining
(i had just come back from a cycle) but I certainly used less than necessary to fill a bucket. Maybe
reused washing water would be in order- its soapy so thats good I guess. SO what are these water
restrictions- no hosing whatsoever?

Deep Freud Moors' deepfloydmars@yIaWONThBITEoYA!o.co.uk said:

gravelmuncher <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anonymous said:

Tim Jones wrote:
> Other than expensive bike store lubricant, what do people use for oiling their chain?
>
> Motorcycle chain oil?
Sure, thats good for regular riding. Its penetrating, and easy to apply. But like any oil,
dirt sticks. So if you ride in dirt, consider a dry lube. It needs to be applied much more
often though. And its

only

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the inside of the chain that needs to be lubed, so wipe excess oil off the outside.

I found a spray/lube/displacer with zonyl in it, so i'll give it a go. You see, I've just bought
a new Trek 1400 and i'm absolutely terrified that i'll do something to hurt it. I've also heard
that it's best to clean the chain on the bike, as breaking the chain only shortens the lifespan
of that particular link(???) kinda makes sense really.

It's a problem with cheap and nasty chains. After a while though, you do get good at breaking
chains though. Oiling the link before breaking it can do wonders (would you believe???). And
naturally breaking it at a different point each time makes sense.

ssigh, my chain appears to be rivetted together, no breaking for me 🙁

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Although, the same person says not to run a hose over the bike so as not to get water in bearings
- but what about rain? and how the hell are you to get the damn soap off?! So now my pride and
joy is getting dirtier and i'm still scared i'm gonna stuff something. I did buy some kerosene to
degrease it though...guess now i just need to figure the best way to go about it.

With regards to your bearings, if they are well packed with grease, getting water in should not be
a big problem. The primary purpose of the grease is not lubrication, but to keep dirt and water
out. Dirt and poorly adjusted cones are the two things that will kill bearings and cones faster
than anything else.

There are super-greases, like MBL, which definitely do assist in lubrication, but you have to
reapply it pretty regularly. The benefits of the reduced friction are very small.
---
DFM

"Cody" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

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Just stand the bike on the lawn and water the lawn.

Well, in Melbourne you aren't allowed to water your lawn as far as I'm aware.. and a good thing too.
Silly english lawns in this country! pfft!

hippy If my plants can't live without me maintaining them, it wasn't meant to be ;-)

Yeah, I had a look, bicycle isnt counted in the restrictions 😉 still, thats a technicality

Suzy Jackson said:

"Arpit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Is it ok to hose a bike to clean it?

Not with the water restrictions. Use a bucket.

Regards,

Suzy

On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:26:10 +1000, "Deep Freud Moors" <deepfloydmars@yIaWONThBITEoYA!o.co.uk> wrote:

snip

Quoted message said:

Dirt is a bearing killer whether in grease or not. Contrary to what you just said, grease provides
an effective barrier against dirt when applied correctly.

snip

Quoted message said:

DFM

I'm sorry Deep, but grease provides no barrier at all. In fact grease plus dirt equals grinding
compound. This mixture will result in the rapid erosion of metallic surfaces ( in a dynamic
situation).

Thirty years working in foundries forces me to agree with Jose. Bearings will always fail if the
seals are damaged. Bearings designed to be used in particularly aggressive conditions will often be
double sealed.

Allan Jones

Allan Jones <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:26:10 +1000, "Deep Freud Moors"
<deepfloydmars@yIaWONThBITEoYA!o.co.uk> wrote:

snip

Quoted message said:

Dirt is a bearing killer whether in grease or not. Contrary to what you

just

Quoted message said:

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said, grease provides an effective barrier against dirt when applied correctly.

snip

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DFM

I'm sorry Deep, but grease provides no barrier at all. In fact grease plus dirt equals grinding
compound. This mixture will result in the rapid erosion of metallic surfaces ( in a dynamic
situation).

So you are saying you shouldn't grease bearings? Did you read what I wrote? When you pack bearings
with grease, dirt is much less likely to get in. Thus they work better.

Quoted message said:

Thirty years working in foundries forces me to agree with Jose. Bearings will always fail if the
seals are damaged. Bearings designed to be used in particularly aggressive conditions will often
be double sealed.

So you weren't working on bikes all that time then? :o)

I was originally (somewhere miles up the thread) reffering to basic wheel bearing assemblies. The
subject of sealed bearings hadn't even come up!
---
DFM

Deep Freud Moors:

Quoted message said:

Jose Rizal <_@_._> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Deep Freud Moors:

Quoted message said:

Crikey, do I have to go back to my original statement yet again???

"The primary purpose of the grease is not lubrication, but to keep dirt

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

water out."

Note that it says "primary", not "sole".

It's still wrong, and it doesn't matter how many times you state it. The primary purpose of
grease is lubrication. Educate yourself and you won't have to make up things like this. It's
annoying for most of everyone of us who know better.

It's annoying you because what I say stands up, and your only way of dealing with it is to try
change the subject. I suggest you take some time out and do some yoga or some [censored].

Funny, since when do your statements stand by themselves? So far you've dodged the challenge of
providing any sort of reference to your mythical claims, instead resorting to repetition to make
yourself belive they're true. Sorry, no cigar.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Grease does provide somewhat of a lubricating effect,

It provides more than a "somewhat" lubricating effect, it provides *all the necessary*
lubrication required by the bearings.

Quoted message said:

Which is somewhat of a lubricating effect, is it not?

No. You need to learn English a little better, or you're being deliberately dumb. "Somewhat" is
different from "all that is necessary". Dodge and duck all you like, you don't fool anyone.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

but its role of inhibiting dirt from getting into the bearings is much more important

from a

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Quoted message said:

reliability point of view.

What rubbish. Why do you make up things like this?

Now folks, watch as Jose completely misinterprets what I said, and starts crapping on about
something else...

Who do you think you're addressing, an audience for your comedy show? Again you sidestep the issue,
and try to divert attention. Pretty juvenile, and quite futile. Show proof for your claims, some
references, otherwise live with the fact that you made wrong claims about something you know
nothing about.

Quoted message said:

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A secondary benefit of grease is its water repellency, not dirt repellency.

WHOAH!!! Yes, folks, that was a massive leap into something unrelated! Why am I continuing with
this guy? I dunno...

Because you're trying to save face? Unsuccessful...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You might think that grease prevents dirt getting into the rotating parts, but you are again
wrong. Dirt is a killer in being entrained in grease, as it will eventually be carried into the
moving parts.

Dirt is a bearing killer whether in grease or not. Contrary to what you just said, grease provides
an effective barrier against dirt when applied correctly.

Now you add statements to try to change your previous statements. Unfortunately, whether
"applied correctly" or not, grease does not provide an "effective barrier for dirt". No luck
there, I'm afraid.

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Quoted message said:

You've been making all these wrong claims about grease, it's time you cut your losses and go.

Pretending that you're right will only delude yourself. You wont even address the point I am
making, choosing to change the subject instead.

Ah, the tried and tested Usenet method of accusing someone of what you're guilty of. No luck there
either. I've addressed all the specific points you've made, and a cursory glance at previous posts
show this.

You, however, sidestep the issues, snip relevant passages proving your claims are laughably wrong,
and fail to show any kind of reference for your claims. I'm not sure why you persist in making
erroneous claims showing an embarrasingly huge lack of knowledge; I can only guess that you have
pretensions and a desire to impress imaginary audiences in this forum. Sorry, you failed in every
respect. This has been a huge waste of time.

Deep Freud Moors:

Quoted message said:

Jose Rizal <_@_._> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You are the one that is trying to change the subject!!! It was

originally

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

about wheel bearings, if you can recall correctly. You avoided that last comparison because it
illustrates my point rather concisely, doesn't it!

Nope. You made several false statements about grease, and whether it's used for bearings or
turbine rotors or gears, the primary purpose of it is lubrication. I see you skipped all the
statements about grease being a lubricant, and not provided an iota of factual data about why
you think otherwise.

As opposed to the plethora of factual data you provided!!!!

At least you recognise facts when you see them. Now learn and move on.

Quoted message said:

I gave a comparison which no-one is disputing. Instead you just tried to drag the topic into bike
unrelated stuff, hoping to catch me out for some reason.

Your comprehension is either deliberately or congenitally defective. Anyone reading the previous
posts on this thread will easily see that your claims have been specifically addressed and shown to
be wrong. You've made no correct statements so far, provided no references, and not even a hint of
where you got your mythical claims from. There's no backing out from that.

Jose Rizal <_@_._> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Deep Freud Moors:

Quoted message said:

Jose Rizal <_@_._> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Deep Freud Moors:

> Crikey, do I have to go back to my original statement yet again???
>
> "The primary purpose of the grease is not lubrication, but to keep

dirt

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and

Quoted message said:

> water out."
>
> Note that it says "primary", not "sole".

It's still wrong, and it doesn't matter how many times you state it. The primary purpose of
grease is lubrication. Educate yourself and

you

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Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

won't have to make up things like this. It's annoying for most of everyone of us who know
better.

It's annoying you because what I say stands up, and your only way of

dealing

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Quoted message said:

with it is to try change the subject. I suggest you take some time out

and

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Quoted message said:

do some yoga or some [censored].

Funny, since when do your statements stand by themselves? So far you've dodged the challenge of
providing any sort of reference to your mythical claims, instead resorting to repetition to make
yourself belive they're true. Sorry, no cigar.

More meaningless word salad that has nothing to do with what we were talking about...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Grease does provide somewhat of a lubricating effect,

It provides more than a "somewhat" lubricating effect, it provides

*all

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the necessary* lubrication required by the bearings.

Quoted message said:

Which is somewhat of a lubricating effect, is it not?

No. You need to learn English a little better, or you're being deliberately dumb. "Somewhat" is
different from "all that is necessary". Dodge and duck all you like, you don't fool anyone.

Semantics? "necessary" can mean damn near anything in this context. You seem to like making
unspecific statements about unrelated arguments.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> but its role of inhibiting dirt from getting into the bearings is much more

important

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Quoted message said:

from a

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> reliability point of view.

What rubbish. Why do you make up things like this?

Now folks, watch as Jose completely misinterprets what I said, and

starts

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

crapping on about something else...

Who do you think you're addressing, an audience for your comedy show? Again you sidestep the
issue, and try to divert attention. Pretty juvenile, and quite futile. Show proof for your claims,
some references, otherwise live with the fact that you made wrong claims about something you know
nothing about.

And below you make a statement which assumes you are speaking on behalf of the audience.

Jose, you technique is simple. Insist that I am wrong, and change the argument into something I
have not said.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

A secondary benefit of grease is its water repellency, not dirt repellency.

WHOAH!!! Yes, folks, that was a massive leap into something unrelated!

Why

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

am I continuing with this guy? I dunno...

Because you're trying to save face? Unsuccessful...

Jose, who assumes he knows what all the readers are thinking.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You might think that grease prevents dirt getting into the rotating parts, but you are again
wrong. Dirt is a killer in being entrained in grease, as it

will

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

eventually be carried into the moving parts.

Dirt is a bearing killer whether in grease or not. Contrary to what you

just

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

said, grease provides an effective barrier against dirt when applied correctly.

Now you add statements to try to change your previous statements. Unfortunately, whether
"applied correctly" or not, grease does not provide an "effective barrier for dirt". No luck
there, I'm afraid.

Adding "applied correctly" does not constitute changing a statement - the meaning is exactly the
same thing. This is a technique you keep using to avoid replying to the relevant bits.

You have still, after all your replies, to address my initial statement. Grease does provide an
effective barrier against dirt when applied correctly to basic wheel bearings. Read it, and re-read
it if necessary. I keep restating this because you keep changing the subject.

Here is a link from rideyourbike.com, where it states very clearly that use of grease is to provide
a barrier against dirt (sand or rust). It refers to head-set bearings, but the principle is exactly
the same for wheel bearings.

rideyourbike.combikeassembly.htmlOpen ↗

"We add grease to the wheel (hub), steering (headset) and crank (bottom braket) threads and
bearings. We remove the fork and crank and grease the inside of the frame at the headset and bottom
bracket areas to prevent rust and catch [censored] (rust or sand) from contaminating the bearings."

Go ahead and provide a counter cite, if you can.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You've been making all these wrong claims about grease, it's time you cut your losses and go.

Pretending that you're right will only delude yourself. You wont even address the point I am
making, choosing to change the subject instead.

Ah, the tried and tested Usenet method of accusing someone of what you're guilty of. No luck there
either. I've addressed all the specific points you've made, and a cursory glance at previous posts
show this.

Hey, I am the one that keeps trying to turn this back to my original statement. You have persisted
in dragging it off in every direction.

Why don't we discuss my original comparison which you have avoided like the plague? Oh yeah... now I
see why...

Quoted message said:

You, however, sidestep the issues, snip relevant passages proving your claims are laughably wrong,

If my statements were actually "laughably wrong", you would not feel the need to come back at them.

Quoted message said:

and fail to show any kind of reference for your claims. I'm not sure why you persist in making
erroneous claims showing an embarrasingly huge lack of knowledge; I can only guess that you have
pretensions and a desire to impress imaginary audiences in this forum.

More meaningless word salad.

Quoted message said:

Sorry, you failed in every respect. This has been a huge waste of time.

Agreed on that last point. If you can't refute my ORIGINAL statement (without changing the subject
as you have a number of times), then this is a waste of time.
---
DFM

Jose Rizal <_@_._> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Deep Freud Moors:

Quoted message said:

Jose Rizal <_@_._> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> You are the one that is trying to change the subject!!! It was

originally

Quoted message said:

> about wheel bearings, if you can recall correctly. You avoided that

last

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> comparison because it illustrates my point rather concisely, doesn't

it!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Nope. You made several false statements about grease, and whether

it's

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

used for bearings or turbine rotors or gears, the primary purpose of

it

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

is lubrication. I see you skipped all the statements about grease

being

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a lubricant, and not provided an iota of factual data about why you think otherwise.

As opposed to the plethora of factual data you provided!!!!

At least you recognise facts when you see them. Now learn and move on.

Quoted message said:

I gave a comparison which no-one is disputing. Instead you just tried to drag the topic into
bike unrelated stuff, hoping to catch me out for

some

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

reason.

Your comprehension is either deliberately or congenitally defective. Anyone reading the previous
posts on this thread will easily see that your claims have been specifically addressed and shown
to be wrong. You've made no correct statements so far

I have made no correct statements so far? Never ever? If I was truly always incorrect, I would be
a brilliant devils advocate. This illustrates your penchant for incorrectly overstating stuff
rather well.

Why have you not addressed my original comparison yet, Jose?
---
DFM